Kelly hits out at Irish domestic scene

laraghrider

Brian? wrote: »

Also, not to get too Monty Python, we used to cycle to races and cycle home again.



All we had at the feed station was a handful of hot gravel etc....

Ouh you had a bloody luxury you did. I worked down mines, 26hour day and all you had to sleep on was a rock in the lake

Beasty

Brian? wrote: »

Also, not to get too Monty Python, we used to cycle to races and cycle home again.

laraghrider wrote: »

Ouh you had a bloody luxury you did. I worked down mines, 26hour day and all you had to sleep on was a rock in the lake

Ah! - childhood memories of Yorkshire.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

('tis Friday)

Harrybelafonte

Brian? wrote: »

It's one thing that surprised me in the last few years, I meet so many people who cycle now but don't have any heritage associated with the sport. Sometimes I even have to explain who Eddie Merckx is, to guys on 4 grand carbon bikes! They're mainly sportive cyclists, hopefully their kids will race.

A few sportives, a Sky jersey and a holiday to watch "THE Tour". That's all you need.

I find the same thing frightening and annoying, but it's not really a fair point. People can do whatever the hell they like, for whatever reason they like and we're not helping by being the hipsters of cycling, I'm-more-into-it-than-you types.

I'm with Junior on this. It's a newspiece, we have no real idea of the context and what else Kelly said. He was a great rider and really continues to do a lot for the sport and doubt he's out of touch as many here feel he is. I don't think wav1 should take slight at the comments, as I feel Kelly's comments may be directed more at the establishment than the volunteer/club level.

Brian?

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

A few sportives, a Sky jersey and a holiday to watch "THE Tour". That's all you need.

I find the same thing frightening and annoying, but it's not really a fair point. People can do whatever the hell they like, for whatever reason they like and we're not helping by being the hipsters of cycling, I'm-more-into-it-than-you types.

I didn't mean to have a go at them at all. The more people that cycle the better. I was just making the point that the popularity in cycling is not really being represented at junior level yet.

Hi Ho

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

A few sportives, a Sky jersey and a holiday to watch "THE Tour". That's all you need.

...I feel Kelly's comments may be directed more at the establishment than the volunteer/club level.

Yes, it's interesting that both himself and McQuaid having a go at the establishment(s) from the same An Post camp.

slow

Mentioning only two young riders was unfair in my opinion. Perhaps Mr Kelly doesn't know that three of the new 2015 juniors - Gray, McCarthy and Stenson have already won really good youth races abroad with huge fields. That rarely happened in the 1980's even when we had big numbers cycling.

Go to any post-primary school around the country and search for the bike shed. You won't find one as less than 2% of students cycle to school.

And how many of the really top notch Irish cyclists in the 1980's have sons or daughters racing? I can only think of Stephen Roche and Seamus Downey. Yet, if you go to GAA, you find names like the Fennellys, the Brogans, the Ó Sés keeping their counties going. Consistency requires continuity.

ROK ON

Slightly Ot but this thread has evolved.

Cycling was very firmly family based and in the past this was both a strength and a weakness.

As a kid growing up in the 70s and 80s in a sports mad Limerick family I wanted to join a cycling club. No one in my family or the surrounding area knew anyone at all in Limerick CC - we had no idea how to join. It seemed like a secret society. I had a great bike so I simply spent a lot of time on it.

Instead I played rugby and liked it but always hankered for cycling. Cycling now is so much more open - clubs exist and actively promote themselves. Yes social media does help.

My dad is sports mad - he was very keen for my brother and I to play sport - lots of sport. Yet we couldn't get into organised cycling when the sport was at it's height. My old man is not shy and certainly made many enquiries at the time. We played all sorts of obscure sports (squash FFS).

Cycling has been held together by a relatively small number of very dedicated families and individuals. There is both a positive and negative side to this.

It matters not a fig whether Joe Blow in his 10k Colanago knows how Mr Merckx is. What matters is that he gets involved and hopefully gives something back.

Brian?

ROK ON wrote: »

It matters not a fig whether Joe Blow in his 10k Colanago knows how Mr Merckx is. What matters is that he gets involved and hopefully gives something back.

I seriously regret that remark now. I wasn't having a go at anyone who's taken up cycling later in life and doesn't know the history of the support. All I meant is that a lot of people involved in cycling now are very different from the way it was in the 80s. It was a very insular community back then.

CramCycle

Brian? wrote: »

Also, not to get too Monty Python, we used to cycle to races and cycle home again.



All we had at the feed station was a handful of hot gravel etc....

I had a brief moment where I thought I had money to spare a few years ago, the first time I thought I had money I got a train to the locale of the event, later that year I drove to an event on my own. Then the recession came along, if its not within 200km of my house, I won't take part anymore :cool:

Nowadays I have given up socialising so I can afford the entry fee

Cape Clear

Hi Ho wrote: »

Yes, it's interesting that both himself and McQuaid having a go at the establishment(s) from the same An Post camp.

Kind of silly seasons stuff. No races to comment on so structures etc. get debated. Not sure any of this will make a blind bit of difference to Cycling Ireland.

Junior

Hi Ho wrote: »

Yes, it's interesting that both himself and McQuaid having a go at the establishment(s) from the same An Post camp.

Pat was there with the Baku Team his son runs. They were in the same hotel, along with Astana and a few more ProTour teams.

Juan More Time

Another point Sean Kelly has failed to understand is, since the demise of the Celtic tiger younger people were forced to emigrate in their thousands.. Obviously this is going to impact the quality of the racing.. Plus cycling Ireland has done a pretty good job at supporting the elite end of the sport, but have always neglected the grass roots. If cycling Ireland really wish to encourage racing, they should make it more accessible to working class folks and the €125 racing licence fee should be cut to a more realistic €70.

Beasty

Juan More Time wrote: »

If cycling Ireland really wish to encourage racing more people into racing, the €125 racing licence fee should be cut to €70.

Do you really think that would make any material difference? A4 racing is more popular than it's probably ever been, and CI are hitting new peaks of both leisure and racing licences every year. Most people who race don't have a major issue forking out that sort of money, and probably get a lot of benefit out of the insurance cover it offers alone

Also have you any idea of how big a hole that would blow in the finances of CI (which is already at its limit and not really in a position to throw more money at the likes of the Junior Tour)? The amount you are talking about would be the equivalent of what CI is contributing to the Junior Tour, the Youth Tour, the International Track GP, the Ras na mBan and the Ras na Og in total this year

eeeee

Beasty wrote: »

Do you really think that would make any material difference? A4 racing is more popular than it's probably ever been, and CI are hitting new peaks of both leisure and racing licences every year. Most people who race don't have a major issue forking out that sort of money, and probably get a lot of benefit out of the insurance cover it offers alone

Also have you any idea of how big a hole that would blow in the finances of CI (which is already at its limit and not really in a position to throw more money at the likes of the Junior Tour)? The amount you are talking about would be the equivalent of what CI is contributing to the Junior Tour, the Youth Tour, the International Track GP, the Ras na mBan and the Ras na Og in total this year

That's not true. This year is the only year I will have a full license as I'm a student and it's half price. It's taken me until the 4th week in January to afford it at €65. After this year it's LC only for me as I can't afford €125 on a license.

I agree it would leave huge holes in the budget, but I don't think it's fair to say everyone who's racing is full of cash. Maybe there should be 2 rates, one regular, the other for students/unemployed. Get more people out road racing who can't afford it the full license, more €65's instead of €25's would add up surely?

StevieGriff

I think the whole argument of the money side of things isn't very true. It's no more expensive than any sport, when I was 16/17 I got very much into Archery, forked out a lot of cash (my parents cash) on equipment and fee's. There was always a constant cost, money for training nights, having to upgrade kit...ect
At least with cycling is a matter of paying your license/club fee and after than you can do as you please. There's no forceful cost after that and races are very responsible at €15-€20 when you compare them to things like adventure races which are €70 a pop.
In retrospect I would love have done junior racing but I didn't even know there was such a thing at the time.

Beasty

gadetra wrote: »

That's not true. This year is the only year I will have a full license as I'm a student and it's half price. It's taken me until the 4th week in January to afford it at €65. After this year it's LC only for me as I can't afford €125 on a license.

I agree it would leave huge holes in the budget, but I don't think it's fair to say everyone who's racing is full of cash. Maybe there should be 2 rates, one regular, the other for students/unemployed. Get more people out road racing who can't afford it the full license, more €65's instead of €25's would add up surely?

I was referring to most and certainly not all racers. I appreciate it is a financial burden to a lot of people, but not, in my view, to most, who will happily splash out on their bikes, cycling gear, club subs etc as well as their licences

Would more €65s instead of €25s (actually €30) "add up"? - no I don't think it will. A3 and A4 fields in the Republic, and particularly in Leinster, are pretty much at or beyond their limit for the circuits used (despite some promoters wanting to maximise revenue and encouraging as many as possible to sign up). A1 and A2 fields are smaller, but that's not where those who may be encouraged to start racing will be

Juan More Time

Personally I think Sean Kelly should put some of his money where his mouth is, and spend some of his millions on a fund or outreach program to provide equipment and coaching to youngsters from less well off back rounds. Otherwise we loose these tough kids to sports like boxing and mixed martial arts/ cage fighting..

Cycling was always an equipment dominated sport, but back in the seventies It was still possible for a super talented youngster like Sean Kelly to show up on an ill fitting old bike and and beat those kids from more affluent families with their posh bikes..

Beasty

Juan More Time wrote: »

Personally I think Sean Kelly should put some of his money where his mouth is, and spend some of his millions on a fund or outreach program to provide equipment and coaching to youngsters from less well off back rounds.

Millions? Seriously? Where did he get these "millions" from? Do you have anything to back-up the suggestion he is so well off? Certainly when he was at his peak there was not that much money in cycling, and even now many pros struggle to make a living out of the sport

Juan More Time

Beasty wrote: »

Millions? Seriously? Where did he get these "millions" from? Do you have anything to back-up the suggestion he is so well off? Certainly when he was at his peak there was not that much money in cycling, and even now many pros struggle to make a living out of the sport

Beasty dude, Please I don't think for one second I begrudge Sean Kelly the affluent lifestyle he enjoys today, because he has earned every cent of it by risking life and limb in the pro peleton for many years..

I still think his comments about the domestic racing scene are uncalled for, and he should be doing something positive instead of complaining...

Beasty

I'm not defending his comments, but I do know that it's easy for comments to be taken the wrong way, or for statements to be made that are later regretted. I also know that it makes sense for those reporting such statements to make the most out of them by sometimes selectively choosing what to report. I have no idea whether any of that is relevant here. However I would again question your comments and in particular that he enjoys an "affluent lifestyle"

I am only guessing here because I really have no idea of his finances, but do really struggle to believe he has made a "fortune" out of cycling. The public perception of anyone that may be considered a tv or sports "personality" is they must be well off. In a lot of cases they are not. They may enjoy some of the trappings of a high profile media role, but actually getting up early to catch flights to different parts of the world to then sit in what may well be a cramped broadcasting facility and talk all day about cycling before doing the same again the following day and having to shoot off for other public appearances is not all that glamerous. I equally suspect the likes of Eurosport pay nowhere near as much as higher profile broadcasters such as Sky and indeed the BBC

RobFowl

Kelly's earning at his peak were reputed to be cicra £450k. Even-with with investments it wouldn't have been enough to retire on and live a lavish lifestyle.
I don't think any one can accuse Kelly of not putting much back into the sport.
He's generous with his time and profile and has done huge amounts of work for cycling as a sport and individual cyclists...

Juan More Time

Well I have seen Kelly's castle and it's a large mansion surrounded by high walls and electric gates. The garage/trophy room alone is considerably larger than yer average executive type residence.. I guess it's a house befitting a former international sports star.. Suffice to say Sean isn't short of a few bob:rolleyes:

StevieGriff

Juan More Time wrote: »

Well I have seen Kelly's castle and it's a large mansion surrounded by high walls and electric gates. The garage/trophy room alone is considerably larger than yer average executive type residence.. I guess it's a house befitting a former international sports star.. Suffice to say Sean isn't short of a few bob:rolleyes:

So he should splash out on a cycling outreach group, of which 99% of the participants won't appreciate for a second? So him setting up an academy and a cycling team for riders who want to be there isn't enough...right.

RobFowl

Juan More Time wrote: »

Well I have seen Kelly's castle and it's a large mansion surrounded by high walls and electric gates. The garage/trophy room alone is considerably larger than yer average executive type residence.. I guess it's a house befitting a former international sports star.. Suffice to say Sean isn't short of a few bob:rolleyes:

IMO Kelly has earned and deserved every cent he has. He gives time and money to teams and events the length and breath of the country.
No one who knows an thing about the sport can accuse him of not investing in he future of the sport.

wav1

Read a lot of the above comments and glad it got a broad debate,even if slightly off topic by times.
Just a few more pieces of [useless] information.

The ras used to be in late June until 1989.
First time race was run in May was 1990,and the reason why?Ireland had just qualified for their first appearance at a World cup finals in Italia '90 and the sponsors of the race at that time[in our pre on line media era] felt that the race would receive little attention from the printed and airways media given its close timing to the World Cup.So a May date was set and was deemed a success at that time,and now has a settled date in the UCI calendar,and for all the reasons already mentioned such as hotel rates,busy tourism centres etc I think it works.As Tony has already said in an interview this week it would probably be a lot harder for the crew to commit later in the summer with family stuff etc.[Only a few of us have understanding enough spouses to get away on the ras and the JT each year]Promise i'll make it up to you babe etc.
If you go back to the 70s.a lot of the domestic races were harder and longer than now.Races that no longer exist,EG Tour of the Slade,Liam Toolin,Meath GP [on the old circuit] and many more were all tough and long single day races.Personally I don't think there is an appetite from the vast majority of riders,with the exception of the really tough strong riders,for such races nowadays.Its just a different era,and those riders with aspirations of going on further are placing themselves with teams and clubs on the continent for such racing as it is.At the end of the day the promoters have to try and ''get out'' the best they can on running races and the majority of the riders are the ones that have to be catered for..
Kelly was never one to soft soap anybody but a little encouragement from someone of his staus,towards riders of 17 or 18 years of age.would help I feel,growing up as they are in an era that has far more distractions than Carrick on Suir had in the 70s.

wav1

RobFowl wrote: »

IMO Kelly has earned and deserved every cent he has. He gives time and money to teams and events the length and breath of the country.
No one who knows an thing about the sport can accuse him of not investing in he future of the sport.

Apart from giving his name wheres the investment?

Lumen

Juan More Time wrote: »

Well I have seen Kelly's castle and it's a large mansion surrounded by high walls and electric gates. The garage/trophy room alone is considerably larger than yer average executive type residence.

Kelly's trophy room is big cos he has a lot of trophies. His walls are high cos he doesn't want them nicked.

What would he want to be keeping executives for out in the country? He has donkeys, they're far more pleasant company.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVT5GseFw0U

RobFowl

wav1 wrote: »

Apart from giving his name wheres the investment?

Name,time, reputation and publicity worth far more than cash.

Ps must chat to you re that other idea during Ras week maybe??

Juan More Time

Maybe Sean Kelly is right, and the younger generation with the exception of Eddie Dunbar are a bunch of ambition less wussies who spend far too much time on facebook instead of riding their bikes in the rain....

Harrybelafonte

Juan More Time wrote: »

Maybe Sean Kelly is right, and the younger generation with the exception of Eddie Dunbar are a bunch of ambition less wussies who spend far too much time on facebook instead of riding their bikes in the rain....

That's a direct quote right? The Irish Star are looking for journalists, you're a shoe-in.