How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

gravehold

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Not current. Another lie.

It's is the current no changes have gone into force yet

jobbridge4life

lisar816 wrote: »

So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.

No the rights concerning adoption are completely separate matter dealt with in independent legislation that has already passed the Oireachtas and been signed by the President and awaits only enactment. Gravehold and others have been deliberately trying to falsely associate the two together.

Maximus Alexander

lisar816 wrote: »

So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.

Adoption law has been changed in the Children and Family Relationships Act, so it doesn't give gay couples that right. They already have it.

Well, actually nobody has it because there's no such thing as 'a right to adopt', but they are now eligible to adopt as a couple where the relevant authorities consider them the most suitable candidates.

Ave Sodalis

gravehold wrote: »

A married couple are obviously not a single person hence why I said a married couple. And without the ssm constitutional protection what allows gay couple to adopt in a few days can easily be removed while constitutional protections can't

But a change to the constitution won't protect adoption

gravehold

lisar816 wrote: »

So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.

Yes exactly

upinthesky

sup_dude wrote: »

Nope, they can already adopt and will be able to do so after the referendum whether it passes or not.

Really, they can adopt a child that has no biological relation to either, didnt no that.

Ave Sodalis

gravehold wrote: »

It's is the current no changes have gone into force yet

It's already written into law though so it is current.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

my friend wrote: »

As David Norris said:

'If you don't know, vote No'

Me, David Norris, John Waters.

Quis separabit?

Bannasidhe

lisar816 wrote: »

So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.

It really doesn't.

The Referendum will allow Gay people to get married if passed and this will grant them Constitution protection as a family whether or not they ever have children by any means. Same as heterosexuals.

The Children and Family Relationship Act extends who can adopt as a couple beyond the old 'only married couples'. This has been signed in to law and will come into force before the Referendum.

The results of the Referendum has no impact on who can adopt.

MrWalsh

gravehold wrote: »

It's is the current no changes have gone into force yet

It has been signed into law and will be in force in a week or so.

How are you so obtuse? Seriously? Its like a discussion forum with a woodpecker pecking away making the same senseless noise repeatedly.

gravehold

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Adoption law has been changed in the justice.ie/en/JELR/Children%20and%20Family%20Relationships%20Act%202015.pdf/Files/Children%20and%20Family%20Relationships%20Act%202015.pdf"]Children and Family Relationships Act[/URL], so it doesn't give gay couples that right. They already have it.

Well, actually nobody has it because there's no such thing as 'a right to adopt', but they are now eligible to adopt as a couple where the relevant authorities consider them the most suitable candidates.

This right can easily be removed by the next goverment unless ssm passes then gay married couples get the same protection to adopt as straights

Bannasidhe

gravehold wrote: »

A married couple are obviously not a single person hence why I said a married couple. And without the ssm constitutional protection what allows gay couple to adopt in a few days can easily be removed while constitutional protections can't

You said a married couple gets preference.

They don't.

gravehold

lisar816 wrote: »

Really, they can adopt a child that has no biological relation to either, didnt no that.

In 8 days and the right can be removed unless you vote yes for ssm

Ave Sodalis

gravehold wrote: »

This right can easily be removed by the next goverment unless ssm passes then gay married couples get the same protection to adopt as straights

The referendum will not protect it.

Ave Sodalis

gravehold wrote: »

In 8 days and the right can be removed unless you vote yes for ssm

The referendum will not protect it.

G_R

Mod

gravehold, your contributions to this thread are little more than trolling at this point. Please change your posting style, or you'll end up thread banned.

Maximus Alexander

gravehold wrote: »

This right can easily be removed by the next goverment unless ssm passes then gay married couples get the same protection to adopt as straights

You said that already. You were refuted already.

MrWalsh

gravehold wrote: »

This right can easily be removed by the next goverment unless ssm passes then gay married couples get the same protection to adopt as straights

The right can be removed regardless of the referendum on same sex marriage.

I genuinely do not understand your constant blatting on the same thing over and over despite being PROVEN wrong each time.

gravehold

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You said a married couple gets preference.

They don't.

They get a preference of being the only couple with can adopt for 8 more days and if the ssm fails and the next goverment revert the children act

Ave Sodalis

gravehold wrote: »

They get a preference of being the only couple with can adopt for 8 more days and if the ssm fails and the next goverment revert the children act

The referendum will not protect it.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Adoption isn't a general issue, in any event. There are very few adoptions these days, and most are within families. Typically, the "adoptive" parents include the child's mother.

http://www.treoir.ie/policy-statistics.php#3

gravehold

sup_dude wrote: »

The referendum will not protect it.

It will make the gay couple a married couple and have the same rights as the straight married couple. That's the protection yes will give

One eyed Jack

gravehold wrote: »

Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption, once ssm comes in the staright and married couple will be equal and discrimination law will stop the adoption board preferring a straight couple. Have constitutional protection will bring way more then justnbeing married it has ramifications on other things

So it has absolutely nothing to do with whether a couple are gay or straight then?

It has to do with the fact that they are either married or unmarried, and married couples aren't given any preference, they are simply eligible to apply to adopt children, whereas unmarried couples are not.

It doesn't matter if an unmarried couple are heterosexual or homosexual, the simple fact of the matter is that they are currently ineligible as a couple to apply to adopt children.

The Children and Family Relationship Act which will be written into law before this referendum, completely separate from the outcome of this referendum, means that unmarried couples will then be eligible to apply to adopt children, the same way as a married couple were always eligible, the same way as individuals were always eligible, and no one criteria will outweigh the other as there is no hierarchy exists that you're trying to make out.

Why are you doing that?

After it has been explained to you by numerous posters now?

jobbridge4life

gravehold wrote: »

They get a preference of being the only couple with can adopt for 8 more days and if the ssm fails and the next goverment revert the children act

You are talking nonsense. You have been talking nonsense. In spite of being corrected on numerous occasions you continue to offer up the same disproven nonsense. It is ridiculous.

upinthesky

So in a few days married gay and straight couples will all be recognised as the same for adoption?

Maximus Alexander

gravehold wrote: »

It will make the gay couple a married couple and have the same rights as the straight married couple. That's the protection yes will give

Thanks for explaining the purpose of the referendum.

MrWalsh

gravehold wrote: »

It will make the gay couple a married couple and have the same rights as the straight married couple. That's the protection yes will give

That has nothing to do with adoption.

jobbridge4life

lisar816 wrote: »

So in a few days married gay and straight couples will all be recognised as the same for adoption?

Yes.

upinthesky

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The Children and Family Relationship Act which will be written into law before this referendum, completely separate from the outcome of this referendum, means that unmarried couples will then be eligible to apply to adopt children, the same way as a married couple were always eligible, the same way as individuals were always eligible, and no one criteria will outweigh the other as there is no hierarchy exists that you're trying to make out.

Thanks for clearing this up, so the referendum has absolutely nothing to do with adopting as it's been brought in already for unmarried couples, as said above.

Maximus Alexander

lisar816 wrote: »

So in a few days married gay and straight couples will all be recognised as the same for adoption?

Well yes, sort of, but adoption doesn't work like that.

When a child is being adopted the relevant authorities seek to find the most suitable environment in which to place the child. It's not about the couple, it's about the child. The child's welfare is prioritized.

The new act allows cohabiting couples and and civil partners to be considered for adoption. But a child will, of course, only be placed in their care if they are deemed the best option.

What this act does, is broaden the pool of available options and so improves the chances of finding the best possible environment for the adoptee.

This is unrelated to the referendum on same sex marriage, but is being used as a tool to derail the discourse by those who would seek to keep gay couples on the fringes of society.