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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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    #9902
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    gravehold wrote: »
    Not true yet they still cannot adopt the same as a married couple yet.

    If a same-sex couple applied to be considered as an adoptive couple today the legislation will be in force before the first batch of paperwork is completed so stop it.

    It's law.
    It will be in force before the Referendum.
    It has nothing to do with the Referendum.


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    #9903
    jimdublin15
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭jimdublin15


    gravehold wrote: »
    My gay friends pretty much have sex with a different guy each weekend.
    gravehold wrote: »
    You should tell the husbands but this is why you are foolish to marry in this day in age, they can say goodbye to half their stuff soon enough and end up paying maintance.

    Although once gays start to get divorce courts might actually have to think for once rather then give it all to the women even if she is the cheating one.

    I would not tell the husbands about the cheating wifes I know of. I mean it's simply not my marriage so none of my business so why get involved. What they do to each other is up to them.

    Anyhow still not sure what your trying to say or what the point is your making about the gay friends you have or my cheating wifes club in relation to SSM referendum


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    #9904
    SireOfSeth
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭SireOfSeth


    lisar816 wrote: »
    Are gay couples allowed to adopt children that have no relations to either of themselves? Just wondering because i know they are allowed adopt but under what circumstances, if any.

    Yes (after the Children and Family Relationships Bill is enacted this month).


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    #9905
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    gravehold wrote: »
    For their side, they have said to people if you don't agree with it don't vote there is no reason to vote no if you disagree

    Well obviously preferably for their side but the downfall of this referendum will be due to a lack of voters so the Yes side are encouraging as many people as possible to vote


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    #9906
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    my friend wrote: »
    As David Norris said:

    'If you don't know, vote No'

    That is how I do it for most referendums. If I don't feel like I can understand the full implications of my vote I assume I am being taken for a ride.

    But then of course, you can only apply that logic after having made reasonable efforts to understand. And if someone never understands any referendum, well it might have to do with them :-)


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    #9907
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    If a same-sex couple applied to be considered as an adoptive couple today the legislation will be in force before the first batch of paperwork is completed so stop it.

    It's law.
    It will be in force before the Referendum.
    It has nothing to do with the Referendum.

    Not in force yet so gay couples havn't got the same chance to adpot yet as married couples and the legislation can change on a whim once it comes into force. Referendum needs to pass so gay couples can be married then get the same constitutional protection for adoption as straights


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    #9908
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    gravehold wrote: »
    Referendum needs to pass so gay couples can be married then get the same constitutional protection for adoption as straights

    No, it doesn't. The Constitution doesn't deal with adoption. As you've been told.


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    #9909
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    gravehold wrote: »
    the same constitutional protection for adoption as straights

    There's no such thing. The 'same constitutional protection for adoption' would be none at all.


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    #9910
    SireOfSeth
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭SireOfSeth


    gravehold wrote: »
    Not in force yet so gay couples havn't got the same chance to adpot yet as married couples and the legislation can change on a whim once it comes into force. Referendum needs to pass so gay couples can be married then get the same constitutional protection for adoption as straights

    If you look-up the word 'pedantic'... you'll see a picture of gravehold.


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    #9911
    smokingman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭smokingman


    Ah g'wan, have a listen, it's the Nualas fer fek sake :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytulLaJx6Rk


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    #9912
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    sup_dude wrote: »
    No, it doesn't. The Constitution doesn't deal with adoption. As you've been told.

    It deals with the family in relation to married couples. Being a married couple will bring way more protections then just getting married.


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    #9913
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    There's no such thing. The 'same constitutional protection for adoption' would be none at all.

    It's the married couple protection


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    #9914
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    gravehold wrote: »
    Being a married couple will bring way more protections then just getting married.

    This makes no sense.


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    #9915
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    gravehold wrote: »
    Being a married couple will bring way more protections then just getting married.

    ummm, what?


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    #9916
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    gravehold wrote: »
    It's the married couple protection

    There is no married couple 'protection' relating to adoption. There is nothing at all in the constitution relating to adoption.

    You're a liar.


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    #9917
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    gravehold wrote: »
    Referendum needs to pass so gay couples can be married then get the same constitutional protection for adoption as straights

    Not True.

    No mention of adoption in the Constitution. Married couples do not have a right to adopt.

    And Children and Family Relationship Act has changed Adoption Law to broaden the criteria for when people can adopt as a couple.

    Full act available here http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Children%20and%20Family%20Relationships%20Act%202015.pdf/Files/Children%20and%20Family%20Relationships%20Act%202015.pdf


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    #9918
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,671 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    gravehold wrote: »
    Not in force yet so gay couples havn't got the same chance to adpot yet as married couples and the legislation can change on a whim once it comes into force. Referendum needs to pass so gay couples can be married then get the same constitutional protection for adoption as straights


    How many more times are you actually going to spread that lie? Because that's what it is at this point. You're no longer just misinformed, you're outright lying!


    It wasn't because a couple were gay that they weren't eligible for adoption btw. Heterosexual cohabiting couples were also prohibited from applying jointly to adopt a child (my friend who is cohabiting with her boyfriend for years, had to apply solely to adopt a child they had fostered. They could not apply as a couple).

    The relevant section of the Children and Family Relationship Act 2015 you're looking for is this bit -

    The Bill amends the Adoption Act 2010 to extend its provisions
    to civil partners and cohabiting couples. Civil partners and cohabiting
    couples, where the latter have lived together for three years, will
    have the right to apply jointly to adopt a child. It provides for such
    couples to be subject to the same assessment processes and eligibility
    criteria as for married couples. It also makes provisions for a civil
    partnered or a same-sex cohabiting couple to place a child for
    adoption where that child is the child of both of them. The Bill
    provides for civil partners and cohabiting couples to be eligible for
    adoptive leave.


    Source: https://www.iasw.ie/attachments/Chil...andum_2015.pdf


    The situation for unmarried couples under the terms of the Adoption Act 2010 are set out below -

    Unmarried couples may not jointly adopt a child. A joint adoption by a couple is only possible where that couple is married and living together. This rule prevents an unmarried couple from jointly adopting a child even where one of the parties is the biological or legal parent of the child. There are no proposals to change adoption law in Ireland to permit adoption by unmarried couples.

    Under the adoption legislation, it is possible for a single person to adopt if the Adoption Authority considers it desirable and it must regard the welfare of the child as its first and paramount consideration. This means that if you are living with a same-sex or opposite-sex partner, you may apply to the Authority to adopt a child in your own right, intending to raise the child with your partner. However, your partner would have no legal rights in relation to the child. The fact you are in a relationship is relevant only when evaluating circumstances that might affect the child's welfare.

    For a foreign adoption to be recognised in Ireland, it must comply with the definition of adoption in Irish law. This means that the rule that only married couples may jointly adopt will apply.


    Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...d_couples.html


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    #9919
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    There is no married couple 'protection' relating to adoption. There is nothing at all in the constitution relating to adoption.

    You're a liar.

    Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption, once ssm comes in the staright and married couple will be equal and discrimination law will stop the adoption board preferring a straight couple. Have constitutional protection will bring way more then justnbeing married it has ramifications on other things


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    #9920
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    gravehold wrote: »
    Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption, once ssm comes in the staright and married couple will be equal and discrimination law will stop the adoption board preferring a straight couple. Have constitutional protection will bring way more then justnbeing married it has ramifications on other things

    Again, this is incorrect.


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    #9921
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    How many more times are you actually going to spread that lie? Because that's what it is at this point. You're no longer just misinformed, you're outright lying!


    It wasn't because a couple were gay that they weren't eligible for adoption btw. Heterosexual cohabiting couples were also prohibited from applying jointly to adopt a child (my friend who is cohabiting with her boyfriend for years, had to apply solely to adopt a child they had fostered. They could not apply as a couple).

    The relevant section of the Children and Family Relationship Act 2015 you're looking for is this bit -




    The situation for unmarried couples under the terms of the Adoption Act 2010 are set out below -



    I have never said unmarried couples, married couples have the preference.


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    #9922
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    gravehold wrote: »
    Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption

    A lie.
    gravehold wrote: »
    , once ssm comes in the staright and married couple will be equal and discrimination law will stop the adoption board preferring a straight couple.

    A lie.
    gravehold wrote: »
    Have constitutional protection will bring way more then justnbeing married it has ramifications on other things

    Vague nonsense.


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    #9923
    smokingman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭smokingman


    gravehold wrote: »
    Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption, once ssm comes in the staright and married couple will be equal and discrimination law will stop the adoption board preferring a straight couple. Have constitutional protection will bring way more then justnbeing married it has ramifications on other things

    So what you're saying, is that gay couples are "lesser" somehow? Do please tell me why again?
    187.gif


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    #9924
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    gravehold wrote: »
    Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption,

    Incorrect.

    Currently (for approx the next 8 days) only a married couple may adopt as a couple.

    They do not get 'preference' over a single person.


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    #9925
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    A lie.



    A lie.



    Vague nonsense.

    aai.gov.ie/index.php/domestic-adoption/faq-domestic-adoption.html

    Here is the current one, where does it say a gay couple can adopt only a married couple are able to adopt.


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    #9926
    DanDublin1982
    Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭DanDublin1982


    gravehold wrote: »
    Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption, once ssm comes in the staright and married couple will be equal and discrimination law will stop the adoption board preferring a straight couple. Have constitutional protection will bring way more then justnbeing married it has ramifications on other things

    Adoption is not a bidding war. There is no hierarchy of who gets any child through adoption.


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    #9927
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    gravehold wrote: »
    aai.gov.ie/index.php/domestic-adoption/faq-domestic-adoption.html

    Here is the current one, where does it say a gay couple can adopt only a married couple are able to adopt.

    Not current. Another lie.


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    #9928
    upinthesky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭upinthesky


    So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.


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    #9929
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    gravehold wrote: »
    aai.gov.ie/index.php/domestic-adoption/faq-domestic-adoption.html

    Here is the current one, where does it say a gay couple can adopt only a married couple are able to adopt.

    Once again this has been superceded by the Children and Family Relationships Act 2015.


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    #9930
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Incorrect.

    Currently (for approx the next 8 days) only a married couple may adopt as a couple.

    They do not get 'preference' over a single person.

    A married couple are obviously not a single person hence why I said a married couple. And without the ssm constitutional protection what allows gay couple to adopt in a few days can easily be removed while constitutional protections can't


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    #9931
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    lisar816 wrote: »
    So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.

    Nope, they can already adopt and will be able to do so after the referendum whether it passes or not.


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