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Calf Prices 2015 *** DISCUSSION THREAD

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    #362
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,197 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    I would consider some of them JEX's better value than some AA calves, have had some bad experiences with AA's that come off easy calving bulls.

    However at present FRX are better value to buy if finishing as bullocks. On the other hand you could stock a farm with JEx's for 1K. It is all relative. If you do them right they will kill about 280DW averaging O- at 26-27 months. Disadvantage is that you cann finish out of a shed.

    If I need to stock a farm in the morning I would not turn my nose up at them Also they are supposed to be more profitable than friesians to finish as bulls under 16 months.
    I have come across a number of dairy farmers who this year were selling their early JEx bull calves directly to young farmers who wanted to stock up for small money.
    JEx bulls will lay on a skin of flesh quicker than FR but as you said, will k/o at a lighter weight.


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    #363
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Base price wrote: »
    In my experience the bigger the operation (not in all cases) the worse they treat the by product :mad:

    What are you basing this massive generalisation on?


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    #364
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    What are you basing this massive generalisation on?

    She did say not in all cases frazzled


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    #365
    stretch film
    Registered Users Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭stretch film


    Lets be clear I take pride in doing calves well as much as anyone but the sidelining of male dairy calves is inevitable the busier a dairy farmer becomes and the lower the value placed on that calf is.

    Total and utter race to the bottom.
    They cannot be got to a saleable state for pittens.


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    #366
    Miname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭Miname


    Base price wrote: »
    In my experience the bigger the operation (not in all cases) the worse they treat the by product :mad:
    I'd have to disagree. The bigger the operations round me the far more organised and efficient they are. Pens are cleaned regularly, calves are vaccinated regardless and beistings given. Everything is ran like a military operation. There's a few smaller lads round me and there's calves wedged in corners here and there. Vaccinations and dosing are hit and miss with most and as for knowing what they were even bulled to goes beyond them.


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    #367
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Reggie. wrote: »
    She did say not in all cases frazzled

    She said the bigger the worst, based on what experience That's all


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    #368
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,197 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    What are you basing this massive generalisation on?
    Experience :)


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    #369
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Base price wrote: »
    Experience :)

    Come on, how many large dairy farms that you've visited are neglecting calves? Give a %


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    #370
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Come on, how many large dairy farms that you've visited are neglecting calves? Give a %

    Dairy farms weren't mentioned lad. Let's not turn it into a dairy vs suckler


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    #371
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Miname wrote: »
    I'd have to disagree. The bigger the operations round me the far more organised and efficient they are. Pens are cleaned regularly, calves are vaccinated regardless and beistings given. Everything is ran like a military operation. There's a few smaller lads round me and there's calves wedged in corners here and there. Vaccinations and dosing are hit and miss with most and as for knowing what they were even bulled to goes beyond them.

    Calf rearing on large units has to be run like a military operation. If short cuts are taken you put all heifers at risk.


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    #372
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Dairy farms weren't mentioned lad. Let's not turn it into a dairy vs suckler

    Have you become a moderator?

    A statement was made, I asking for it to be backed up and we get Experience?????


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    #373
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,197 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Miname wrote: »
    I'd have to disagree. The bigger the operations round me the far more organised and efficient they are. Pens are cleaned regularly, calves are vaccinated regardless and beistings given. Everything is ran like a military operation. There's a few smaller lads round me and there's calves wedged in corners here and there. Vaccinations and dosing are hit and miss with most and as for knowing what they were even bulled to goes beyond them.
    Why would a dairy farmer vaccinate and dose by product calves that are destined for slaughter or export.
    As I stated in my original post the bit in brackets that you may have missed (not in all cases).
    However I will stand by my comment on this thread and previous comments regarding the neglect/mistreatment by "some" large scale dairy farmers of worthless JEx bull calves.
    In fairness this is not an aspect of dairy farming that should be highlighted on a public forum, so maybe we should discontinue with this topic.


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    #374
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Base price wrote: »
    Why would a dairy farmer vaccinate and dose by product calves that are destined for slaughter or export.
    As I stated in my original post the bit in brackets that you may have missed (not in all cases).
    However I will stand by my comment on this thread and previous comments regarding the neglect/mistreatment by "some" large scale dairy farmers of worthless JEx bull calves.
    In fairness this is not an aspect of dairy farming that should be highlighted on a public forum, so maybe we should discontinue with this topic.
    every calf here gets halocur for first 3 days, rotavec corona biestings and bovicox if they are still here around 2 weeks, i am relying on repeat customers and no point selling on calves that are going to die on their new owner, that along with powerwashing , disenfecting ,regular cleaning out


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    #375
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,197 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Come on, how many large dairy farms that you've visited are neglecting calves? Give a %
    Jeez are you for real. Its a public forum.


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    #376
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Base price wrote: »
    Jeez are you for real. Its a public forum.

    Stop making sweeping statements so. Do you visit many large dairy units?

    I absolutely think that this behaviour should be made public. I think its a lot less prevalent than what your suggesting


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    #377
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Have you become a moderator?

    A statement was made, I asking for it to be backed up and we get Experience?????

    Jaysus sorry

    Was just trying to defuse that's all

    People are entitled to their opinions. Let them be right or wrong. You seem to be taking it very personnally


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    #378
    trixi2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,535 ✭✭✭trixi2011


    Base price wrote: »
    In my experience the bigger the operation (not in all cases) the worse they treat the by product :mad:
    you must be visiting the wrong operations base any large scale units I know of will have a dedicated person in charge of calf rearing and will be a lot more focused on calves as that is there sole focus you will always get some cowboys but sure you will get them in every farming sector


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    #379
    farmerjj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭farmerjj


    Time to move on lads!


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    #380
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Base price wrote: »
    Why would a dairy farmer vaccinate and dose by product calves that are destined for slaughter or export.
    As I stated in my original post the bit in brackets that you may have missed (not in all cases).
    However I will stand by my comment on this thread and previous comments regarding the neglect/mistreatment by "some" large scale dairy farmers of worthless JEx bull calves.
    In fairness this is not an aspect of dairy farming that should be highlighted on a public forum, so maybe we should discontinue with this topic.

    We vaccinate weekly here and every calf gets done. We cannot allow a virus or the likes of crypto get hold.

    You will find this standard procedure on most if not all large units. Any large unit I know have a person doing nothing else other than calves


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    #381
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Jaysus sorry

    Was just trying to defuse that's all

    People are entitled to their opinions. Let them be right or wrong. You seem to be taking it very personnally

    Nothing personal just so easy to make statements, then asked to back up and guess what nothing. Hardly convincing.


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    #382
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,197 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Stop making sweeping statements so. Do you visit many large dairy units?

    I absolutely think that this behaviour should be made public. I think its a lot less prevalent than what your suggesting
    I visit many dairy & beef farms both large and small over several counties.
    I have been doing so for many years.


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    #383
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Base price wrote: »
    Why would a dairy farmer vaccinate and dose by product calves that are destined for slaughter or export.
    As I stated in my original post the bit in brackets that you may have missed (not in all cases).
    However I will stand by my comment on this thread and previous comments regarding the neglect/mistreatment by "some" large scale dairy farmers of worthless JEx bull calves.
    In fairness this is not an aspect of dairy farming that should be highlighted on a public forum, so maybe we should discontinue with this topic.

    That's a sweeping statement!

    All calves done with Halocur for 7 days.

    All calves given bovipast at at 9 days.

    All calves given ibr vac at 14 days.

    All bull calves, not just JEx, are byproducts here, BP. All calves given exactly the same treatment for the simple reason of herd immunity. I'm here on my own mostly and I cannot risk an outbreak of anything, there just isn't time to deal with it. Leaving a group of low value calves unvaccinated risks a breakdown of resistance in vaccinated calves due to an explosion in disease causing organisms. All have to be done, no exceptions.

    In general, I just about break even in the costs of raising bull calves but it's still better than losing on the costs of raising heifers.


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    #384
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,981 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    I would say there is an increasing tendency to treat Friesian bull calves differently to the heifer calves but most farmers I know are still treating both as they always have. It may be different in more dairy-intensive areas.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



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    #385
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Just reading through the last page or so of this and totally disagree that a jex bull or fr bull is basically forgotten about in relation to a heifer calf.ive been on many farm walks over last few years with lads milking 30 to over 800 cows and practically all have very good calf rearing facalities where all calves are treated equal.no farm wants sick scoured calves in spring so everything has to be treated equal until sale day be that at 7/10 days old or whenever .id even say that the large scale operators are a bit ahead of the smaller ones .this is the first year my calving and calf rearing sheds have been tested to near capacity and bar a few days with a bit of scour and touch of pnuemonia its been trouble free touch wood.investement will be needed this summer though and plans are in the pipeline


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    #386
    orm0nd
    Registered Users Posts: 4,187 ✭✭✭orm0nd


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Just reading through the last page or so of this and totally disagree that a jex bull or fr bull is basically forgotten about in relation to a heifer calf.ive been on many farm walks over last few years with lads milking 30 to over 800 cows and practically all have very good calf rearing facalities where all calves are treated equal.no farm wants sick scoured calves in spring so everything has to be treated equal until sale day be that at 7/10 days old or whenever .id even say that the large scale operators are a bit ahead of the smaller ones .this is the first year my calving and calf rearing sheds have been tested to near capacity and bar a few days with a bit of scour and touch of pnuemonia its been trouble free touch wood.investement will be needed this summer though and plans are in the pipeline

    tbf any farm that's hosting farm walks will have a fairly well run set up,

    my daughter done work experience with a vet in spring of 2012 , although she didn't go into detail, she said some of the conditions she witnessed on some dairy and suckler units were appalling

    agree re facilities , first year with new shed here and it makes a huge difference , thought it was costly at the time, but it was money well spent


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    #387
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    One lesson I've learned is that all calves will be sold in the mart. No way will we allow anyone other than ourselves into the calf sheds.


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    #388
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    One lesson I've learned is that all calves will be sold in the mart. No way will we allow anyone other than ourselves into the calf sheds.

    How many hours would be spent in the mart?


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    #389
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    How many hours would be spent in the mart?

    1.5 hrs per week


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    #390
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    the lad that buys my fr bull calves has said of a yard where fr bull calves are treated different to the heifers, the calves are not looked after and yet he expects to get the same price as the farmers who do look after them properly, he has stopped buying from him


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    #391
    Mad4simmental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Mad4simmental


    In work (it's a big scale farm) there is one man doing all calves only.

    All calves are vaccinated.

    Males & females are not split up untill around 2/3 weeks old.

    They start off in single & double pens. They rotate pens after a few days to dependent and independent calves. Then move onto the big babby calve pens at around 1.5/2 weeks old.

    At around 3 weeks old they are separated male/female and the females are put outside and on oad aslong as they are hardy annof and eating annof. The males go up the ramp.

    The only way males are treated any way different is they don't get de-horned at 3 weeks old & the females do.

    The statement I made a few pages back about the je bulls makeing €20 at 3 weeks should have been shot at birth was about cost not a hate for them. They cost around €50 to get to that stage when you put labour and everything elce onto them.


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