garda corruption alive and well

SpaceSasqwatch

makeorbrake wrote: »

When something from any of those videos supports the world view of you (or your ilk), then it's quoted. When it doesn't, then it's crazy stuff.

how old are you ?

makeorbrake

SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »

how old are you ?

When all else fails, denigrate the poster rather than articulate your point. That said, I can understand how you'd choose to go that way when your argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

SpaceSasqwatch

makeorbrake wrote: »

When all else fails, denigrate the poster rather than articulate your point. That said, I can understand how you'd chose to go that way when your argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

I wasnt making a point. I asked a question.

makeorbrake

SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »

I wasnt making a point. I asked a question.

No - but you proved mine - see above.

Timberrrrrrrr

makeorbrake wrote: »

When something from any of those videos supports the world view of you (or your ilk), then it's quoted. When it doesn't, then it's crazy stuff.



Lol. What's a 'paper of record'?
I guess the video testimony of 3 people means all 3 people are lying? I'm sure they can state that under oath - getting the opportunity to do so is another days work.

I could get video testimonials from 3 people claiming big foot lives in their basement, would that make it true?

Little CuChulainn

makeorbrake wrote: »

Proof please.

I already outlined it.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Unless part of the exercise was intimidatory.

You couldn't even fit 20 Gardaí in riot gear in a hallway, never mind have them all charge in. Not to mention the fact that movement is severely limited in the gear so trying to search in it would be pointless.

I'm not sure what you think it is that makes Doocey such a special snowflake that there would be a completely unprecedented and unorthodox search by upwards of two dozen Gardaí. Isn't it amazing how nobody else saw this massive operation taking place. I mean, 20 Gardaí in riot gear would need 4 vans. And all the detectives would need at least two cars.

makeorbrake wrote: »

There wouldn't be any need to send a gaggle of gardai down from Harcourt Street either - would there?

That depends on what they are looking for. The special detective unit is based out of there and Doocey, sorry I mean Dooceys computer, was sending threats to judges and politicians. They would be the ones to investigate such things.

makeorbrake

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I could get video testimonials from 3 people claiming big foot lives in their basement, would that make it true?

Sure - and so 3 peoples word is worthless. How many people's word would it take to be acceptable? By the way, our legal system (in principal) isn't based on the 'wrong type of witnesses' as many have professed here.

Little CuChulainn

makeorbrake wrote: »

Sure - and so 3 peoples word is worthless. How many people's word would it take to be acceptable? By the way, our legal system (in principal) isn't based on the 'wrong type of witnesses' as many of professed here.

In many cases it is. Juries make decisions based on their view of witness testimony which is heavily influenced by their assessment of the witness.

Timberrrrrrrr

makeorbrake wrote: »

Sure - and so 3 peoples word is worthless. How many people's word would it take to be acceptable? By the way, our legal system (in principal) isn't based on the 'wrong type of witnesses' as many of professed here.

In this day and age I would expect pictures/video of said big foot.

makeorbrake

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I already outlined it.

You most certainly did not.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You couldn't even fit 20 Gardaí in riot gear in a hallway, never mind have them all charge in.

I hope that's not your idea of proof!

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'm not sure what you think it is that makes Doocey such a special snowflake that there would be a completely unprecedented and unorthodox search by upwards of two dozen Gardaí.

They've already made that clear i.e. their interest in Integrity Ireland.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Isn't it amazing how nobody else saw this massive operation taking place.

You mean aside from 3 people?

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

That depends on what they are looking for. The special detective unit is based out of there and Doocey, sorry I mean Dooceys computer, was sending threats to judges and politicians. They would be the ones to investigate such things.

Ok, so nobody from Dublin was present? You know this for a fact?
Again - proof?

Equally no operation was launched against Joe Doocey within minutes of him contesting a legal process at Ballina Courthouse that implicated Gardai?

makeorbrake

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

In this day and age I would expect pictures/video of said big foot.

How many times have people of your viewpoint declared on this thread that any I.I. videos are nonsense? And now you say that there's a case for video. Which is it?

makeorbrake

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

In many cases it is. Juries make decisions based on their view of witness testimony which is heavily influenced by their assessment of the witness.

Yes. Well I think someone should get in touch with the Academy Awards people - because 83 year old Dermot Doocey and fifty something year old Ann Edwards put in Oscar performances if you maintain that they are lying in unison - alongside Mr. J. Doocey.

SpaceSasqwatch

makeorbrake wrote: »

Yes. Well I think someone should get in touch with the Academy Awards people - because 83 year old Dermot Doocey and fifty something year old Ann Edwards put in Oscar performances if you maintain that they are lying in unison - alongside Mr. J. Doocey.

Wha????
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/3d-wat-gif.jpg

ohnonotgmail

makeorbrake wrote: »

When something from any of those videos supports the world view of you (or your ilk), then it's quoted. When it doesn't, then it's crazy stuff.



Lol. What's a 'paper of record'?
I guess the video testimony of 3 people means all 3 people are lying? I'm sure they can state that under oath - getting the opportunity to do so is another days work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_of_record

makeorbrake

SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »

Wha????
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/3d-wat-gif.jpg

Yes, this sums up the value of your contribution to the discussion alright.

SpaceSasqwatch wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_of_record

I see. So you include the Indo/SIndo in that definition? The Daily Mail?
LINK - 16:59 onwards. Question addressed to Frank McBrearty: What are your thoughts on the irish media?

ohnonotgmail

makeorbrake wrote: »

Yes, this sums up the value of your contribution to the discussion alright.

I see. So you include the Indo/SIndo in that definition? The Daily Mail?
LINK - 16:59 onwards. Question addressed to Frank McBrearty: What are your thoughts on the irish media?

sorry i dont waste my time watching videos from cranks

makeorbrake

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

sorry i dont waste my time watching videos from cranks

Ah yes. This would be the 'crank' who (along with his family) went through hell at the hands of the Gardai, the Judiciary and the Irish State when he was framed for the murder of Richie Barron. You have heard of the Morris Tribunal I take it?

Shameful.

Little CuChulainn

makeorbrake wrote: »

Ok, so nobody from Dublin was present? You know this for a fact?
Again - proof?

This is the opposite of what I said. This is why it's pointless discussing something with you. I specifically said that the SDU is based in Dublin and they investigate the crimes committed by Dooceys computer.

makeorbrake

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

This is the opposite of what I said. This is why it's pointless discussing something with you. I specifically said that the SDU is based in Dublin and they investigate the crimes committed by Dooceys computer.

Ok, so you're not disputing Dublin based Gardai being present but you are disputing the number of Gardai (overall) present?

ArmaniJeanss

makeorbrake wrote: »

How many times have people of your viewpoint declared on this thread that any I.I. videos are nonsense? And now you say that there's a case for video. Which is it?

There's a big distinction between a video of 20 armed police in riot gear entering someones house, and a video of some people claiming that 20 armed police in riot gear etc.
Can you see how the latter might be considered dubious whilst the former would be convincing evidence?

On a general point is there any chance you could bring this interesting thread to Stephens attention. You have said you are not a member of II and I have no reason to doubt your integrity, however it appears you are no stranger to the small town of Ballyhaunis where Stephen has an address, so perhaps if you bump into him down the shops?

relax carry on

Also on a general note, does the number of posters expressing disbelief at the claims by Integrity Ireland/Stephen Manning/Joe Doocey give you pause for thought at all?

Muahahaha

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

sorry i dont waste my time watching videos from cranks

Tell us how Frank McBrearty is a crank, I'd love to hear your reasons for this claim

makeorbrake

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

There's a big distinction between a video of 20 armed police in riot gear entering someones house, and a video of some people claiming that 20 armed police in riot gear etc.

There's an irony here given that so many of your viewpoint express their revultion for video. Notwithstanding that, sure it would be nice to have video of same - in the same way as it would be nice to have video of the operation which took place in Ballina Town. However, these type of events are not meant to allow the 'mark' the time and composure to organise same. I'm sure Mr. Doocey is incredibly apologetic that he couldn't spoon feed you all the 'evidence' that you so often demand.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Can you see how the latter might be considered dubious whilst the former would be convincing evidence?

Check out the video 'testimony' of all three of them - and tell me that Ann Edwards and Dermot Doocey are - alongside Joe Doocey - all lying in unison. That's what you are saying.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

There's a big distinction between a video of 20 armed police in riot gear entering someones house, and a video of some people claiming that 20 armed police in riot gear etc.
Can you see how the latter might be considered dubious whilst the former would be convincing evidence?

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

On a general point is there any chance you could bring this interesting thread to Stephens attention.

Why don't you bring it to his attention? (albeit that I think he'd have better things to be getting on with).

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

You have said you are not a member of II and I have no reason to doubt your integrity, however

What exactly is there to doubt in terms of my integrity as you seem to be questioning something - can you spell it out?


Lastly, you will recall that not so long ago, you said that Joe Doocey had to be off his trolley with his suggestion that Gardai drove down from Dublin to bust through his door (when you worked on the assumption that it was simply about a rumpus over an ex-girlfriend). Now, we've moved on to the point where you're accepting that they were present. Go figure...

makeorbrake

relax carry on wrote: »

Also on a general note, does the number of posters expressing disbelief at the claims by Integrity Ireland/Stephen Manning/Joe Doocey give you pause for thought at all?

It certainly does give me pause for thought along these lines...

1. What prejudicial baggage have contributors here carried into this discussion?
I'm being continually charged with having a vested interest despite being on record as saying that I admire I.I. but I am not (yet) a member. Others have been invited to state their interest but we have not seen anyone else address that.

2. How many have taken the time to look at the finer detail? We already have a few saying that stuff was "TLDR".

3. Frank McBrearty and his family suffered the same mob abuse at the height of his troubles - before he managed to clear his name. As recently as tonight, there is still someone saying he's a 'crank'. One would have to wonder what's going through the mind of an individual who proclaims that someone who went through the sheer torment of being put (wrongly) on the hook for murder/manslaughter is a crank. Can anyone imagine being in those shoes?

4. Many individuals have been wrongly convicted in the irish state. That's fact. Mistakes (or worse) get made - even moreso where there are systems (not to mention professions...) that lack accountability. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive in the extreme.

Timberrrrrrrr

makeorbrake wrote: »

How many times have people of your viewpoint declared on this thread that any I.I. videos are nonsense? And now you say that there's a case for video. Which is it?

Video of someone sitting there claiming a raid took place is not evidence, pics/video of the alleged raid taking place is considered evidence.

makeorbrake

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Video of someone sitting there claiming a raid took place is not evidence, pics/video of the alleged raid taking place is considered evidence.

Like I said, 'raids' are not designed to give the 'mark' opportunity for much - let alone A/V recording. Otherwise, you are discounting the testimony of 3 individuals. Effectively, you claim that all 3 individuals are lying. If they ever manage to get the opportunity, they will attest to that under oath but in your book, that's not evidence. :rolleyes:

Timberrrrrrrr

makeorbrake wrote: »

Like I said, 'raids' are not designed to give the 'mark' opportunity for much - let alone A/V recording. Otherwise, you are discounting the testimony of 3 individuals. Effectively, you claim that all 3 individuals are lying. If they ever manage to get the opportunity, they will attest to that under oath but in your book, that's not evidence. :rolleyes:

Are you saying that the Gardai where in and out in 10 seconds and no one had a chance to pick up a phone and take a picture? Do they live in a forest with no neighbour for 20 miles who would have been out and curious and taking pics/video of this massive force? No passing motorists who took a SINGLE picture of this fleet of garda vehicles? But you expect me to believe the "testimony" of 3 people who have more to gain by making these claims.

makeorbrake

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you saying that the Gardai where in and out in 10 seconds and no one had a chance to pick up a phone and take a picture?

You expect his 83 year old father to do that, do you? Or his fifty something year old partner? What great presence of mind you have that you'd think of these things when a group of Gardai trundle through your home.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No passing motorists who took a SINGLE picture of this fleet of garda vehicles?

Ah yes, these would be the passing motorists on a rural cul-de-sac!?

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Do they live in a forest with no neighbour for 20 miles who would have been out and curious and taking pics/video of this massive force?

From what I understand (and I'm open to correction), they live in a rural area. What is on record is that they live in a rural cul-de-sac.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But you expect me to believe the "testimony" of 3 people who have more to gain by making these claims.

Sure - his 83 year old father has a lot to gain and his fifty something year old partner.:rolleyes: You watch this and tell me that they're all lying. Like I said, please do contact the Academy Awards people - as what you're suggesting is that they are putting in Oscar-level performances.

Timberrrrrrrr

makeorbrake wrote: »

You expect his 83 year old father to do that, do you? Or his fifty something year old partner? What great presence of mind you have that you'd think of these things when a group of Gardai trundle through your home.


Ah yes, these would be the passing motorists on a rural cul-de-sac!?


From what I understand (and I'm open to correction), they live in a rural area. What is on record is that they live in a rural cul-de-sac.

Sure - his 83 year old father has a lot to gain and his fifty something year old partner.:rolleyes: You watch this and tell me that they're all lying. Like I said, please do contact the Academy Awards people - as what you're suggesting is that they are putting in Oscar-level performances.

You keep throwing their ages out there as iglf it makes a difference, as I said three.people who have a vested interest in telling the same story is not evidence.

makeorbrake

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You keep throwing their ages out there as iglf it makes a difference, as I said three.people who have a vested interest in telling the same story is not evidence.

It certainly does have some bearing, yes. It most certainly IS evidence. Would it have been better to have some randomer on board with that also? Sure. However, you don't exactly have many passing randomers down a country lane that ends in a cul de sac.

You can maintain your view - but you scrutinise their video testimony and either they are putting in Oscar performances or they are telling the truth.

By the way, up until recently, people here were steadfastly opposing the presence of ANY dublin based Gardai - saying that this was delusional on the part of J.D. More recently, they are coming to accept same. That's the only changing storyline I'm seeing.