Proposed Public sector pay rises

crusier

chopper6 wrote: »

Reminds me of when I worked in Dunnes Stores..one of the biggest morons I ever met in my life worked in the Deli with me..the manager actually described him as being "like something out of planet of the apes"..an absolute skiver and a pilferer too.

A couple of years later I was shopping in that particular store and the bloke was a manager!

Poacher turned gamekeeper!

Jawgap

chopper6 wrote: »

Reminds me of when I worked in Dunnes Stores..one of the biggest morons I ever met in my life worked in the Deli with me..the manager actually described him as being "like something out of planet of the apes"..an absolute skiver and a pilferer too.

A couple of years later I was shopping in that particular store and the bloke was a manager!

In my formative years I worked in a large family run hotel chain that had several hotels in D4.

Applicants for its trainee management programme tended to be kids of people who were friends of the family and/or of senior management of the group, and who had failed their LC. Yes, some turned out to be very capable and hardworking managers, but my God we had to put up with a lot of in-bred idiots, one of whom is now in a senior role with a large tourism services company here - as their CFO, which is ironic given he used to struggle every night to cash up the bars!

Rightwing

barneystinson wrote: »

Having spent most of my career to date in the private sector, this wasnt my experience. There's no shortage of laziness or ass covering there either. Shock horror, people acting like people...

crusier wrote: »

Having worked in both sectors I fully agree, there are plenty hiding places in the private sector and plenty legislation to help them remain in place!

I would sort of agree with this, but private sector companies make great use of recessions to weed out the dead wood. Unfortunately, this dead wood then inevitably ends up in the public sector.

barneystinson

Rightwing wrote: »

I would sort of agree with this, but private sector companies make great use of recessions to weed out the dead wood. Unfortunately, this dead wood then inevitably ends up in the public sector.

That's incredibly insulting. Do you say that to people you know in the real world who work in the PS, or do you only say it online?

Jawgap

Rightwing wrote: »

I would sort of agree with this, but private sector companies make great use of recessions to weed out the dead wood. Unfortunately, this dead wood then inevitably ends up in the public sector.

I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion - during the recession the PS wasn't recruiting. In fact it was quietly shedding staff at a brisk rate by terminating contracts, not replacing people who left (mostly younger staff who went travelling, people retiring or leaving for other reasons etc), voluntary early retirement / redundancy, incentivised career breaks, etc etc

So I'm not sure how dead, or any other kind of wood, could have drifted from the private into the public sector.

Now, in my experience, with salaries and recruitment packages accelerating in the private sector as we come out of recession, people are moving out of the PS back into the private sector as opportunities present themselves.

crusier

Rightwing wrote: »

I would sort of agree with this, but private sector companies make great use of recessions to weed out the dead wood. Unfortunately, this dead wood then inevitably ends up in the public sector.

If you call the dole public sector!

crusier

It always amazes me how so many people who retire from the public sector are sought and immediately employed by the private sector, do private sector managers not rate there own private sector workers?

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

Unfortunately, this dead wood then inevitably ends up in the public sector.

Which is why there's so many people bitching and moaning they failed to get jobs in the PS.

The PS is harder to get into than the private sector and they don't accept " dead wood".


Go over to the work and jobs forum..there's 34 pages of people talking about applying to the civil service for executive officer roles...they must be all displaced wasters from the private sector

Farmer Pudsey

crusier wrote: »

It always amazes me how so many people who retire from the public sector are sought and immediately employed by the private sector, do private sector managers not rate there own private sector workers?

The operative word is retire. Most of these are on pensions and in general are looking to put up PRSI to get partial OAP. In general they will do short contract hours that will not pay unemployed to take up.

Rightwing

barneystinson wrote: »

That's incredibly insulting. Do you say that to people you know in the real world who work in the PS, or do you only say it online?

I used to, but gave up on it. People just get too hot under the collar. I've always advised people with potential not to go into the PS.

And certainly not intended to be insulting.

Jawgap

Rightwing wrote: »

I used to, but gave up on it. People just get too hot under the collar. I've always advised people with potential not to go into the PS.

And certainly not intended to be insulting.

Well that's pretty bad career advice.

I always tell the people I mentor that a stint in the right part of the PS provides very valuable experience.

In my area, you can, if you want, earn a fortune servicing clients by working the system on their behalf. In other words, be a hired gun and a poacher.

Or you can do what I did - go spend a few years shaping the system, putting in place the policy processes, building up a network and developing a comprehensive understanding of the area you choose to practice in (as well as helping and having your worth measured in more than financial metrics). In other words a sheriff or gamekeeper........

.......then back into the private sector when it suits. Trust me, a former 'sheriff' offering his services as a 'gun for hire' is more financially (though perhaps less professionally) rewarding than a 'gun for hire' who has always been a gun for hire.

Case in point.....

Finance are currently looking for

.....a Financial Services Principal to provide "the development of strategy in relation to national and international financial services and provide policy analysis and advice to senior management and the Minister for Finance."

.....Tax Policy Advisors to help with "developing tax policy options, preparing materials on income tax measures for the Budget and Finance Bill and the ongoing development and management of tax incentives and reliefs"

.....a Banking Policy Adviser to "contribute to the formulation of policy advice on payment and legal tender issues to senior management, the Minister for Finance and the Government."

Do those jobs for 3 to 5 years and you'd be snapped up pretty quickly for the Reg Affairs or Compliance Units in any number of large banks or financial services firms.

You probably wouldn't do as well as Matthew Elderfield, but you'd do alright

crusier

Rightwing wrote: »

I used to, but gave up on it. People just get too hot under the collar. I've always advised people with potential not to go into the PS.

And certainly not intended to be insulting.

In other words anyone with potential shouldn't join the fireservce, police or ambulance service, I know loads of people who tried and failed to get into these occupations and now work in the private sector and seem to now just want to bitch about what they weren't able to get into! Many people choose these professions as a career and value job satisfaction more than monetary gain, god knows but you'd want a vocation to work in them , thankless jobs but they make society function and allow private sector prosper!

Ctrl Alt Delete

Rightwing wrote: »

I used to, but gave up on it. People just get too hot under the collar. I've always advised people with potential not to go into the PS.

And certainly not intended to be insulting.

Sorry but I find that not only really poor advice but also seriously laughable given that my Public Sector job was directly responsible for me landing a €30,000 a year pay rise in in the Private Sector.

Rightwing

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Sorry but I find that not only really poor advice but also seriously laughable given that my Public Sector job was directly responsible for me landing a €30,000 a year pay rise in in the Private Sector.

Good, that is what I like to see,

Ctrl Alt Delete

Rightwing wrote: »

Good, that is what I like to see,

But surely my example proves that going into the Public Sector can be a good thing even if you have drive to succeed.

Rightwing

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

But surely my example proves that going into the Public Sector can be a good thing even if you have drive to succeed.

There's always the exception to the rule.

You may not even know it yourself, but you were ultimately too good for the public sector, hence the move out. Private sector should always be attracting the better worker.

Jawgap

Rightwing wrote: »

Good, that is what I like to see,

Why?

To me you come across as someone bitter about the PS (did you miss out in a competition?)

Money isn't the be all and end all. It's nice to have a decent wage, but I don't think anyone goes into policing, teaching, nursing etc (either in the private or public sectors) to get rich.

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

I've always advised people with potential not to go into the PS

Do you do career guidance seminars?

Jawgap

Rightwing wrote: »

There's always the exception to the rule.

You may not even know it yourself, but you were ultimately too good for the public sector, hence the move out. Private sector should always be attracting the better worker.

......I wonder if you'd believe that as you were being hauled into an ED after an accident or having suffered some acute health emergency?

Nothing like being looked after a bunch of doctors and nurses who were not good enough to get work in the private sector

....or maybe next time you're flying it would be reassuring to know that the ATCs only got that job because their maths wasn't good enough to get them proper jobs in the private sector........

Ctrl Alt Delete

Rightwing wrote: »

There's always the exception to the rule.

You may not even know it yourself, but you were ultimately too good for the public sector, hence the move out. Private sector should always be attracting the better worker.

No actually I worked for 5 years in Public Procurement running, evaluating and awarding tenders in different categories of different values.

My experience is highly sought after in the Private Sector and without my Public Sector job I would not be on an above average salary

Rightwing

Jawgap wrote: »

......I wonder if you'd believe that as you were being hauled into an ED after an accident or having suffered some acute health emergency?

Nothing like being looked after a bunch of doctors and nurses who were not good enough to get work in the private sector

....or maybe next time you're flying it would be reassuring to know that the ATCs only got that job because their maths wasn't good enough to get them proper jobs in the private sector........

There's a reason why we pay extra to have access to private hospitals.

Do you think Michael O Leary would have been better for Ireland in the private sector or public sector ?

crusier

Rightwing wrote: »

There's a reason why we pay extra to have access to private hospitals.

Do you think Michael O Leary would have been better for Ireland in the private sector or public sector ?

I bet its not that long ago you'd have been speaking of David drumm and seanie fitz in the same breath! Not everyone in the private sector is Michael o Leary

Rightwing

crusier wrote: »

I bet its not that long ago you'd have been speaking of David drumm and seanie fitz in the same breath!

Without doubt. But alas, it ultimately didn't matter what sector they operated in, as some idiots saw fit to guarantee all their carnage :mad:

Jawgap

Rightwing wrote: »

There's a reason why we pay extra to have access to private hospitals.

Do you think Michael O Leary would have been better for Ireland in the private sector or public sector ?

First point - no private hospital in Ireland has an ED. If you smash your car, collapse with a heart attack or shoot yourself in the head with a nail gun - you go to your local public sector ED. You may ultimately end up in a private bed / hospital - but your initial care will be by public servants - including the paramedics, fire brigade and Guards who may have risked themselves to drag you to safety to transport you to the ED.

Second, read up on the history of Ryanair. Even O'Leary admitted that if it wasn't for the forbearance of the DAA Ryanair would have been strangled at birth. If they insisted on the airline paying it's bills within the terms agreed then Ryanair would have been fecked. MO'L described how he fully expected on any number of nights / days to get a phone call saying the DAA had parked tugs behind Ryanair's aircraft (the standard way to block an a/c from moving).

And O'Leary in the right position in the PS would be a huge benefit to Ireland.

Rightwing

Jawgap wrote: »

First point - no private hospital in Ireland has an ED. If you smash your car, collapse with a heart attack or shoot yourself in the head with a nail gun - you go to your local public sector ED. You may ultimately end up in a private bed / hospital - but your initial care will be by public servants - including the paramedics, fire brigade and Guards who may have risked themselves to drag you to safety to transport you to the ED.

Second, read up on the history of Ryanair. Even O'Leary admitted that if it wasn't for the forbearance of the DAA Ryanair would have been strangled at birth. If they insisted on the airline paying it's bills within the terms agreed then Ryanair would have been fecked. MO'L described how he fully expected on any number of nights / days to get a phone call saying the DAA had parked tugs behind Ryanair's aircraft (the standard way to block an a/c from moving).

And O'Leary in the right position in the PS would be a huge benefit to Ireland.

Maybe and maybe not, he could well be drowned out by a numptie above him. Perhaps a politician, or a regulator.

Jawgap

Rightwing wrote: »

Maybe and maybe not, he could well be drowned out by a numptie above him. Perhaps a politician, or a regulator.

Ah, I see we've moved off the point about the hospital.

So - anyway, how would you get to your private hospital if injured - do you accept that it would require being admitted / treated through an ED - and as such do you still stand over your earlier statements?

Rightwing

Jawgap wrote: »

Ah, I see we've moved off the point about the hospital.

So - anyway, how would you get to your private hospital if injured - do you accept that it would require being admitted / treated through an ED - and as such do you still stand over your earlier statements?

You are going off on wild tangents. That's what we may our massive taxes for. I accept that my children are receiving education from the State. I've no problem with the level of education they receive. I would expect to receive a higher level of education in a private school. That's the key point. The private sector must always provide a superior service to the public sector, and for this reason, wages in the public sector should always be subdued.

crusier

Rightwing wrote: »

Without doubt. But alas, it ultimately didn't matter what sector they operated in, as some idiots saw fit to guarantee all their carnage :mad:

Private sector at its best, say no more!

Jawgap

Rightwing wrote: »

You are going off on wild tangents. That's what we may our massive taxes for. I accept that my children are receiving education from the State. I've no problem with the level of education they receive. I would expect to receive a higher level of education in a private school. That's the key point. The private sector must always provide a superior service to the public sector, and for this reason, wages in the public sector should always be subdued.

Well you brought up the private hospitals......

And again I'll ask.....

Jawgap wrote: »

......I wonder if you'd believe that as you were being hauled into an ED after an accident or having suffered some acute health emergency?

Nothing like being looked after a bunch of doctors and nurses who were not good enough to get work in the private sector

....or maybe next time you're flying it would be reassuring to know that the ATCs only got that job because their maths wasn't good enough to get them proper jobs in the private sector........

Jawgap

Rightwing wrote: »

You are going off on wild tangents. That's what we may our massive taxes for. I accept that my children are receiving education from the State. I've no problem with the level of education they receive. I would expect to receive a higher level of education in a private school. That's the key point. The private sector must always provide a superior service to the public sector, and for this reason, wages in the public sector should always be subdued.

Actually, so would I........especially as private schools in Ireland receive over €100 million in subsidies from the State