CM PUNK

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 6:09pm

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

Haha man there has been stars crossing over from one to the other for years. Dan "The Beast" Severn and Ken Shamrock for example, both were fully trained pro wrestlers before they ever stepped foot into a MMA fight (although MMA is where they made their careers) and both would have runs in WWE after this. And they got on just fine?

Don Frye was often wrestling in Japan. Tito Ortiz, Rampage Jackson, King Mo not to mention the countless Japanese stars have participated in both and would frequently bounce between both careers. The training is similar, the demands on your body are similar even though wrestling is scripted. Even more so in wrestling, with the travel involved they get maybe 2 weeks off the road a year. In Japan most pro wrestlers train in dojos with their MMA companions and run drills together and has been that way for years.

It's as if he's taking part in his own thread...

Depp · 03-01-2016 6:12pm

Saipanne wrote: »

It's as if he's taking part in his own thread...

did you ever hear the one about your man in the greenhouse throwing stones?

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 6:13pm

Depp wrote: »

did you ever hear the one about your man throwing stones in a greenhouse?

No. I've heard one related to glass houses though. That the one?

A Rogue Hobo · 03-01-2016 6:14pm

It's as if you have nothing productive to reply with. As I said before, just trying to get you to understand the crossover that exists and has done for years before you go around making foolish comments. If you don't want to learn something, then that's fine too.

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 6:16pm

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

It's as if you have nothing productive to reply with. As I said before, just trying to get you to understand the crossover that exists and has done for years before you go around foolish comments. If you don't want to learn something, then that's fine too.

Ok, ill help you. So, Ken Shamrock was a pro wrestler before ufc. Was he doing anything else with his athletic ability before 1993?

Depp · 03-01-2016 6:16pm

Saipanne wrote: »

No. I've heard one related to glass houses though. That the one?

and for tonights main prize a greenhouse is made of which material?...

congratulations!

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 6:18pm

Depp wrote: »

and for tonights main prize a greenhouse is made of which material?...

congratulations!

Many options for the windows, both glass and plastic.

A Rogue Hobo · 03-01-2016 6:20pm

Eh yes. Started wrestling in 1989 in a small American promotion before moving onto wrestle in Japan under the name Wayne Shamrock. Ironically enough, fought his first MMA fight for a Japanese pro wrestling company, who would usually showcase MMA fights before there were any famous MMA promotions in the world.

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 6:22pm

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

Eh yes. Started wrestling in 1989 in a small American promotion before moving onto wrestle in Japan under the name Wayne Shamrock. Ironically enough, fought his first MMA fight for a Japanese pro wrestling company, who would usually showcase MMA fights before there were any famous MMA promotions in the world.

Then does he have a background in actual combat sports before ufc?

Gamebred · 03-01-2016 6:23pm

Dtp1979 · 03-01-2016 6:24pm

ricero wrote: »

What weight will punk be fighting at ? I expect his debut to draw big numbers

Deadweight

Dtp1979 · 03-01-2016 6:25pm

Gamebred wrote: »

The perfect example of a manchild

A Rogue Hobo · 03-01-2016 6:28pm

Saipanne wrote:

Then does he have a background in actual combat sports before ufc?

Yep by "shoot" training for pro wrestling in Japan, which is what piqued his interest in competing in MMA. I'm not sure I can simpifly this any more for you.

Thought you were talking about the sport of MMA like you said and not just UFC anyways?

John_D80 · 03-01-2016 6:39pm

callaway92 wrote: »

Yes it does.

Many people I know that got into MMA have found it easy because they can still feel a connection with certain characters while knowing it's a real contat combat sport.

Guys like Sonnen/McGregor etc who get a lot of their dialogue from Pro Wrestling have made it easier for people to get into it.

Wait what? You're actually seriously trying to tell me that people like Sonnen and McGregor take some sort of inspiration and/or get ''dialogue'' from Pro Wrestling.

Christ, you do realise that MMA fighters aren't playing ''characters'' dont you? Its very much real, unrehearsed and not staged.

Sorry mate but that is pure and utter bollocks.

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 6:46pm

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

Yep by "shoot" training for pro wrestling in Japan, which is what piqued his interest in competing in MMA. I'm not sure I can simpifly this any more for you.

Thought you were talking about the sport of MMA like you said and not just UFC anyways?

Because you referenced them.

He fought combat sport for real. Not pre determined. In Pancrase? So it's not like he was some guy who only ever performed in pro wrestling and decided to give MMA a go because they're practically the same thing, hence the ease of crossover. These guys were fighters before they entered the world of theatre.

John_D80 · 03-01-2016 6:49pm

riffmongous wrote: »

You musn't have a clue about the origins of mma so, unless you think mma = ufc

No mate, I'm quite knowledgable on the origins of MMA and in no shape or form was pro wrestling a major influence on it as a sport.

Given, there have been a handful of crossover athletes to be sure but they were almost all to a man, experienced martial artists and/or high school or collegiate wrestlers who just happened to be pro wrestlers as well. But they are very small in number and account for a tiny percentage of MMA fighters even in the early days of the sport and the sport would have flourished with or without them.

A Rogue Hobo · 03-01-2016 6:49pm

Sonnen actually wanted to be a pro wrestler before he got into MMA, got a tryout for WCW back in the day but found the camp very intense and decided to concentrate on college instead. He's a pretty open about his love for professional wrestling. Actually works for a professional wrestling company at the moment.

Was clearly influenced by it in terms of learning how to sell a fight, would often tweak wrestlers lines for his own interviews "You are looking at the largest arms in west Oregan" for example is a slight variation on Superstar Billy Graham.

McGregor was definitely a fan of wrestling and has said as much but seems to be a bit embarrassed by it all as he rarely talks about it or talks down on it when asked about it. I think he's afraid of being referred to as being fake which is understandable in his world and the image he needs to maintain.

Easy Rod · 03-01-2016 6:49pm

John_D80 wrote: »

Wait what? You're actually seriously trying to tell me that people like Sonnen and McGregor take some sort of inspiration and/or get ''dialogue'' from Pro Wrestling.

Christ, you do realise that MMA fighters aren't playing ''characters'' dont you? Its very much real, unrehearsed and not staged.

Sorry mate but that is pure and utter bollocks.

McGregor and Sonnen play exaggerated versions of themselves to sell pay per views. They're cutting promos ala wrestling in order to make more money. "Anderson Silva, you absolutely suck" etc. etc. Josh Barnett is another example of someone who crosses the line into pro wrestling occasionally from his catch wrestling background.

Stop getting offended on behalf of the sport lads. They are fundamentally different but there are comparisons to be made whether you like it or not.

John_D80 · 03-01-2016 6:54pm

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

Sonnen actually wanted to be a pro wrestler before he got into MMA, got a tryout for WCW back in the day but found the camp very intense and decided to concentrate on college instead. He's a pretty open about his love for professional wrestling. Actually works for a professional wrestling company at the moment.

Was clearly influenced by it in terms of learning how to sell a fight, would often tweak wrestlers lines for his own interviews "You are looking at the largest arms in west Oregan" for example is a slight variation on Superstar Billy Graham.

McGregor was definitely a fan of wrestling and has said as much but seems to be a bit embarrassed by it all as he rarely talks about it or talks down on it when asked about it. I think he's afraid of being referred to as being fake which is understandable in his world and the image he needs to maintain.

Oh well if these guys have dynamic and engaging personalities and ability to generate hype for fights, well it could only come from Pro Wrestling couldn't it? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I mean its totally outlandish for anyone to assume that they might be naturally gifted speakers with a flair and talent for engineering social interactions, using their own personalities, without the influence of Pro Wresting. :rolleyes:

John_D80 · 03-01-2016 6:55pm

Easy Rod wrote: »

McGregor and Sonnen play exaggerated versions of themselves to sell pay per views. They're cutting promos ala wrestling in order to make more money. "Anderson Silva, you absolutely suck" etc. etc. Josh Barnett is another example of someone who crosses the line into pro wrestling occasionally from his catch wrestling background.

Stop getting offended on behalf of the sport lads. They are fundamentally different but there are comparisons to be made whether you like it or not.

Sorry but I was responding to a poster that claimed Sonnen and McGregor got their 'dialogue' from Wrestling.

Surely anyone with a stem of sense can see how ludicrous that is?

Chain Smoker · 03-01-2016 6:57pm

Saipanne wrote: »

Again, I don't see what this really has to do with the discussion. So what if promotional techniques crossed over?

The reason some of us think they are so different is that one is real combat and the other is made up!

And no, lining up injuries does not matter!

That's overstating the importance of the sport aspect to an organisation like the UFC though. There's a definite interest in providing the matches the audience want over the ones the athletes have earned. A guy who is able to get more casual fans interested will have the company wanting to work it so that he can get as far as possible. The big draws aren't the ones which are likely to be technical marvels, they're the ones they can string together good promo packages for.

A Rogue Hobo · 03-01-2016 7:02pm

John_D80 wrote:

Sorry but I was responding to a poster that claimed Sonnen and McGregor got their 'dialogue' from Wrestling.

John_D80 wrote:

Surely anyone with a stem of sense can see how ludicrous that is?

Not sure if you mean me but I didn't say that. I said they were influenced by it. There's a difference. Sonnen has reworked famous wrestlers lines alright, but never blatantly word for word quoted, generally tends to change the location or a name so it applies to him.

John_D80 · 03-01-2016 7:04pm

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

Not sure if you mean me but I didn't say that. I said they were influenced by it. There's a difference. Sonnen has reworked famous wrestlers lines alright, but never blatantly word for word quoted, generally tends to change the location or a name so it applies to him.

No I did not mean you at all. I was referring to a post a few pages back by some one else.

Reebrock · 03-01-2016 7:10pm

John_D80 wrote: »

Sorry but I was responding to a poster that claimed Sonnen and McGregor got their 'dialogue' from Wrestling.

Surely anyone with a stem of sense can see how ludicrous that is?

I have more than a stem of sense, and I think you don't come off well making this statement.

John_D80 · 03-01-2016 7:15pm

Punk is bring a few signature rassling moves with him apparently. Cant wait to see this little doozy in the cage.

John_D80 · 03-01-2016 7:17pm

And of course lets not forget the 'Delayed KO backhander'. My personal favourite.

PS: Lads this thread is after becoming an even bigger joke than it already was. I'm outta here. :-)

Insect Overlord · 03-01-2016 7:22pm

John_D80 wrote: »

PS: Lads this thread is after becoming an even bigger joke than it already was. I'm outta here. :-)

Take Saipanne with you and the rest of us might get back to having a decent discussion. Cheers!

Fromvert · 03-01-2016 7:23pm

This topic used to get discussed on here all the time years ago. Even as a wrestling fan in the 90s I never thought there were links between the two but there definitely is some, especially the early days. But I don't know all of the history around it.

Chael runs around calling himself 'The Bad Guy', I wonder where he got that from.

A Rogue Hobo · 03-01-2016 7:26pm

Saipanne wrote:

Because you referenced them.

Sorry missed this post somehow.Actually I just referred to MMA as a whole upon review I'm pretty sure it was you then changed it to specifically UFC I'm assuming to try and prove some sort of point?

Saipanne wrote:

He fought combat sport for real. Not pre determined. In Pancrase? So it's not like he was some guy who only ever performed in pro wrestling and decided to give MMA a go because they're practically the same thing, hence the ease of crossover. These guys were fighters before they entered the world of theatre.

No actually this was before Pancrase was ever formed. This was a fight put on by a pro wrestling company on a pro wrestling card. Pretty sure this was the fight that inspired fellow pro wrestlers Suzuki and Funaki to form Pancrase though I could be wrong.

Reebrock · 03-01-2016 7:27pm

John_D80 wrote: »

PS: Lads this thread is after becoming an even bigger joke than it already was. I'm outta here. :-)

Take this with you mate and feel a bit silly when the bloke himself proves you wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn1BSiJ-ADs

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