CM PUNK

The Ayatolla · 03-01-2016 3:46pm

Saipanne wrote: »

Only reason I would watch CM Punks debut (who I never heard of until mentioned in MMA news) is if he happens to be fighting on a card I want to watch.

Otherwise, I couldn't care less who beats him.

Yet you clicked into the thread and posted about him.

:pac:

Depp · 03-01-2016 4:32pm

Saipanne wrote: »

WWE is for children or Peter Pan types. There is zero connection to MMA. It's laughable to even connect the two.

not really fair to say that now, sure its scripted but so is almost every tv show and film, does it mean youre a ''peter pan type'' if you watch tv or movies? and you can deny it all you like but its laughable to deny theres a connection between them, pro wrestling at its base level, before you introduce chairs and ladders etc is basically just a staged mma fight with a few things thrown in for entertainment value, personally i find an mma fight more entertaining but wrestling story lines can be very well written and entertaining. Anyway back on topic, if CM Punk is really working as hard as they say he is, I hope he does well, he deserves it!

John_D80 · 03-01-2016 4:58pm

Depp wrote: »

Saipanne wrote: »

WWE is for children or Peter Pan types. There is zero connection to MMA. It's laughable to even connect the two.

not really fair to say that now, sure its scripted but so is almost every tv show and film, does it mean youre a ''peter pan type'' if you watch tv or movies? and you can deny it all you like but its laughable to deny theres a connection between them, pro wrestling at its base level, before you introduce chairs and ladders etc is basically just a staged mma fight with a few things thrown in for entertainment value, personally i find an mma fight more entertaining but wrestling story lines can be very well written and entertaining. Anyway back on topic, if CM Punk is really working as hard as they say he is, I hope he does well, he deserves it!

Ah here steady on there horse. You can honestly say with a straight face that its laughable to deny a connection between MMA and pro wrestling??
Whats really laughable is trying to argue that there is a connection.

And to call Pro wrestling, at any level, basically a staged MMA fight?? Riiiiiiight.

MMA has no more connection to Pro Wrestling than it does to panto or eastenders.

JohnMc1 · 03-01-2016 5:05pm

Professional Griefer wrote: »

The lowest possible until he can prove otherwise apparently..

I wouldn't be surprised if he's maxed out like the Tapout Crew an UltiMan were in the old Dreamcast SEG era version.

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 5:21pm

The Ayatolla wrote: »

Yet you clicked into the thread and posted about him. :pac:

1) If you look very, very carefully. You'll note that I'm a regular contributor to this forum, I read most threads on here.

2) This talentless idiot has been in MMA news for a year now. Hard to miss him.

Now, back to your Wrestlemania, with its manchildren fans...

riffmongous · 03-01-2016 5:26pm

John_D80 wrote: »

Ah here steady on there horse. You can honestly say with a straight face that its laughable to deny a connection between MMA and pro wrestling??
Whats really laughable is trying to argue that there is a connection.

And to call Pro wrestling, at any level, basically a staged MMA fight?? Riiiiiiight.

MMA has no more connection to Pro Wrestling than it does to panto or eastenders.

You musn't have a clue about the origins of mma so, unless you think mma = ufc

Depp · 03-01-2016 5:28pm

John_D80 wrote: »

Ah here steady on there horse. You can honestly say with a straight face that its laughable to deny a connection between MMA and pro wrestling??
Whats really laughable is trying to argue that there is a connection.

And to call Pro wrestling, at any level, basically a staged MMA fight?? Riiiiiiight.

MMA has no more connection to Pro Wrestling than it does to panto or eastenders.

Well like, it is...think of where pro wrestling has its origins, think of the mma fighters who have moved over and back between the two, the histories are intertwined in a big way and thats a fact. Also what is pro wrestling, two guys (usually) step into the ring and use (staged) striking techniques, (staged) wrestling techniques and (staged) submission holds. True there are the elements added for entertainment purposes but you have to see the similarity surely?

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 5:39pm

Depp wrote: »

Well like, it is...think of where pro wrestling has its origins, think of the mma fighters who have moved over and back between the two, the histories are intertwined in a big way and thats a fact. Also what is pro wrestling, two guys (usually) step into the ring and use (staged) striking techniques, (staged) wrestling techniques and (staged) submission holds. True there are the elements added for entertainment purposes but you have to see the similarity surely?

To me, its about as similar as seeing a theatre play set during an armed conflict, and then one of the actors going to a war torn region to fight for real.

That sort of similar.

A Rogue Hobo · 03-01-2016 5:42pm

Saipanne wrote:

WWE is for children or Peter Pan types. There is zero connection to MMA. It's laughable to even connect the two.

Where do you think UFC got their ideas for production values, marketing and fighters trash talking to hype a fight. That's all pro wrestling I'm afraid to break it to you. Dana White has often publicly praised Vince McMahon calling him a genius.

Anyways, the fact that MMA fighters and pro wrestlers generally have a lot of mutual respect for each other due to the similarities physically and are often fans of each other's work as well with MMA stars often at WWE shows (or taking part) or vice versa (wasn't unusual to spot Undertaker in Matt Hughes dressing room on fight nights for example) makes your point a little redundant. Unless you're also including some of MMA's greatest stars in your manchild comments?

On topic: CM Punk is a draw, but not enough to carry a show on his own. For every fan of his that's out there, or fans of both wrestling and MMA that want to see him fight there are those like the poster above who are stubborn and won't watch it to make a point. I agree with what someone else above said, fight 2 or 3 of a big show makes the most sense. Or else headlining a Fight Night but seems like a waste of PPV sales to do that. Hard to know what Punks actual weight is, both due to WWE exaggeration and also his weight fluctuated a lot to the point where it was noticeable visually during his wrestling run.

Depp · 03-01-2016 5:42pm

Saipanne wrote: »

To me, its about as similar as seeing a theatre play set during an armed conflict, and then one of the actors going to a war torn region to fight for real.

That sort of similar.

yeah those wrestlers dont fight for real, they must be pussies!

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 5:44pm

Depp wrote: »

yeah those wrestlers dont fight for real, they must be pussies!

Oh, I'm sure their acrobatics lead to injuries. But that is more ballet than combat.

Gamebred · 03-01-2016 5:44pm

Dont agree that MMA (ufc as a company) are getting all their promotional ideas from wwe wrestling,I'd say a lot of it comes from boxing,right down to the point scoring.

ricero · 03-01-2016 5:44pm

Saipanne wrote: »

To me, its about as similar as seeing a theatre play set during an armed conflict, and then one of the actors going to a war torn region to fight for real.

That sort of similar.

Think your being disrespectful to pro wrestlers as its tough as **** and takes some amount of fitness and cardio. Take a bump in a wrestling ring and you will know all about it.

Anyway any word on when punk is fighting ?

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 5:46pm

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

Where do you think UFC got their ideas for production values, marketing and fighters trash talking to hype a fight. That's all pro wrestling I'm afraid to break it to you. Dana White has often publicly praised Vince McMahon calling him a genius..

Good for Dana. I'm talking about MMA here, as in the combat sport. What franchises do to promote their events is up to them. Though it is telling that you led with this.

callaway92 · 03-01-2016 5:48pm

John_D80 wrote: »

MMA has no more connection to Pro Wrestling than it does to panto or eastenders.

Yes it does.

Many people I know that got into MMA have found it easy because they can still feel a connection with certain characters while knowing it's a real contat combat sport.

Guys like Sonnen/McGregor etc who get a lot of their dialogue from Pro Wrestling have made it easier for people to get into it.

A Rogue Hobo · 03-01-2016 5:49pm

Saipanne wrote:

Good for Dana. I'm talking about MMA here, as in the combat sport. What franchises do to promote their events is up to them. Though it is telling that you led with this.

And casually ignored the rest of the post. Just trying to get you to understand the crossover that exists between both is all. You can deny it all you want doesn't stop it from being true.

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 5:49pm

ricero wrote: »

Think your being disrespectful to pro wrestlers as its tough as **** and takes some amount of fitness and cardio. Take a bump in a wrestling ring and you will know all about it.

Again, I'm sure their acrobatics leads to some nasty injuries. But this does not compare to combat sport at all, where the person in the ring is genuinely trying to hurt you, instead of you sharing the ring with a colleague running through a rehearsed charade and you hurting yourself by accident.

Do I seriously need to point this out?

The Ayatolla · 03-01-2016 5:49pm

Saipanne wrote: »

1) If you look very, very carefully. You'll note that I'm a regular contributor to this forum, I read most threads on here.

2) This talentless idiot has been in MMA news for a year now. Hard to miss him.

Now, back to your Wrestlemania, with its manchildren fans...

Funny you consider Daniel Cormier a manchild :rolleyes:

To call CM Punk a talentless idiot pretty much makes you look like a brainless one.

Chain Smoker · 03-01-2016 5:54pm

Bah, this stuff is very cyclical, boxers like Ali openly admitted to being influenced by wrestlers to get crowds interested, wasn't chael damn near stealing old Ric Flair promos and everyone was lapping it up.

I'm sure most wrestling fans agree that punk shouldn't be anywhere near ufc though. It was something of an odd deal they made at a point where they had lost a bunch of draws and bellator seemed to be gaining ground with gimmick draws like tito. rousey hadn't became the gigantic star she is yet and mcgregor was a blip on the radar so it probably seemed worth a punt as an experiment at the time.
Best thing that can happen for everyone is that it all quietly fades away without ever happening... I kind of want to see him get absolutely whupped though.

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 5:55pm

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

And casually ignored the rest of the post. Just trying to get you to understand the crossover that exists between both is all. You can deny it all you want doesn't stop it from being true.

Any previous crossover I've known of involved a pro wrestler who had some significant previous experience in actual real combat sport.

CM Punk is interesting to me, in this regard. As he seems to have been a superstar pro wrestler, but has near zero combat experience.

So, in your world he should cross right over and be just fine. Correct?

The Ayatolla · 03-01-2016 5:56pm

.... don't forget. Floyd Mayweather's actual record is 50-0

The Ayatolla · 03-01-2016 5:58pm

Saipanne wrote: »

So, in your world he should cross right over and be just fine. Correct?

Who said that? :eek:

Your Affliction t-shirt seems to be cutting off the old circulation to the noggin me thinks.

A Rogue Hobo · 03-01-2016 5:58pm

Punk and MMA makes sense. Always been vocal in his interest for it and trained with the Gracies whenever his wrestling schedule allowed it.

Punk and UFC for Punks debut however doesn't make sense to me at all to this day. Makes sense for UFC they'll get a draw out of it and be happy regardless if he embarrasses himself. But I suppose from his point of view if you're going to embarrass yourself you may as well do it on the biggest stage and get paid well to do so.

It still seems to me though he got the contract due to being in with the "scene" and having friends in high places as opposed to getting a contract from merit.

Whosthis · 03-01-2016 5:59pm

Chain Smoker wrote: »

, boxers like Ali openly admitted to being influenced by wrestlers to get crowds interested,

Ali was also involved in staged boxer v wrestler bouts with Antonio Inoki. Dare I say it was an early mma bout?

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 5:59pm

Chain Smoker wrote: »

Bah, this stuff is very cyclical, boxers like Ali openly admitted to being influenced by wrestlers to get crowds interested, wasn't chael damn near stealing old Ric Flair promos and everyone was lapping it up.

Again, I don't see what this really has to do with the discussion. So what if promotional techniques crossed over?

The reason some of us think they are so different is that one is real combat and the other is made up!

And no, lining up injuries does not matter!

The Ayatolla · 03-01-2016 6:00pm

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

It still seems to me though he got the contract due to being in with the "scene" and having friends in high places as opposed to getting a contract from merit.

Pretty accurate. The idea was initially put in his head during a visit to a UFC event sitting next to the Fertittas and Dana White.

ricero · 03-01-2016 6:02pm

What weight will punk be fighting at ? I expect his debut to draw big numbers

Saipanne · 03-01-2016 6:03pm

The Ayatolla wrote: »

Who said that? :eek:

Your Affliction t-shirt seems to be cutting off the old circulation to the noggin me thinks.

But sure the injuries they get surely means he'll be grand, right? Plus he can trash talk, and makes cool entrances.

And that name. Awesome. So he'll crossover successfully right? All of the above will see him through?

Gamebred · 03-01-2016 6:05pm

Disappointed Lesnar has not been brought up yet :pac:

A Rogue Hobo · 03-01-2016 6:08pm

Saipanne wrote:

So, in your world he should cross right over and be just fine. Correct?

Saipanne wrote:

CM Punk is interesting to me, in this regard. As he seems to have been a superstar pro wrestler, but has near zero combat experience.

Saipanne wrote:

Any previous crossover I've known of involved a pro wrestler who had some significant previous experience in actual real combat sport.

Haha man there has been stars crossing over from one to the other for years. Dan "The Beast" Severn and Ken Shamrock for example, both were fully trained pro wrestlers before they ever stepped foot into a MMA fight (although MMA is where they made their careers) and both would have runs in WWE after this. And they got on just fine?

Don Frye was often wrestling in Japan. Tito Ortiz, Rampage Jackson, King Mo not to mention the countless Japanese stars have participated in both and would frequently bounce between both careers. The training is similar, the demands on your body are similar even though wrestling is scripted. Even more so in wrestling, with the travel involved they get maybe 2 weeks off the road a year. In Japan most pro wrestlers train in dojos with their MMA companions and run drills together and has been that way for years.

CM PUNK

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