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To Connemara and Beyond ...
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Nop, just wondering if you might be taking the mid-week back-to-back runs a bit too fast and that perhaps that's a contributory factor to the current tiredness and lack of motivation ? Seems to be that ca. 8 min/mile pace (sorry I have to translate into miles
) is faster than your HM pace and you might benefit from slowing these runs down a bit and/or taking a rest day or a recovery day in between. Maybe throw a recent 5K or your Connemara time into MacMillan or Vdot to see what training paces it suggests? 0 -
BG, thanks for your input, which I am sure is hitting the nail straight on the head. These runs are much faster than my HM pace (he admits sheepishly). HM pace for me is 5:10 min/km, 10k is 4:45 min/km or so.
However, it's a case of wanting cake and eating it. I typically run my mid-week run(s) with a colleague who is much faster than me (without much training, his 10k PB is ~42-43m while mine is 47m). But it's much more fun running together - and he does slow down somewhat. Also, we both seem to enjoy running together as we can vent about work and get a few things off the chest. A "what's being discussed on the run, stays on the run"-kind of thing. And I do like pushing myself a bit during these runs - it has worked well for me. But the odd time, when a slower runner joins, it's a nice relief
That said. I just noticed the DCM '15 novices thread (hadn't been on boards for a few days) and am instantly motivated again. So excited it's DG mentoring those who are willing to take the plunge. I will spend the evening looking at what my proper pace is for LSR, easy, recovery, and pace runs (any other ones?) - and I guess it's time to mature a little, running wise...0 -
I think BG is spot on, when I run with my faster friends I use those as my tempo run so once a week only, I agree its more fun to run with someone but sometimes you have to do solo runs to avoid going too fast on every run you will get your mojo back once you find the right balance for you 0
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That said. I just noticed the DCM '15 novices thread (hadn't been on boards for a few days) and am instantly motivated again. So excited it's DG mentoring those who are willing to take the plunge. I will spend the evening looking at what my proper pace is for LSR, easy, recovery, and pace runs (any other ones?) - and I guess it's time to mature a little, running wise...
That's funny, I was just coming back on to say that to you in case you hadn't noticed that Dubgal was mentoring the Novices this year but you got there ahead of me. Sounds like the new thread will be great timing for you to get some great advice from DG and also to get your running mojo back
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Right, so I thought I'd get serious about setting target paces for the various types of training runs (and sticking with them).
I saw a great post in outforarun's thread earlier this year about setting these values based of a target time, and followed the same reasoning he was using.
Following the formula [HM PB x 2] + 20 min, would give a target marathon time of 4h. Adding an arbitrary 10 minutes for the sake of it: 4h10, in the hypothetical case I'd ever sign up for one. That equates to ~9:30 min/mi (5.55 min/km).
With that in mind:
Type | Min [km] | Max [km]
(5k PB) | 7:15 [4:30] | 7:23 [4:35]
Tempo | 8:03 [5:00] | 8:19 [5:10]
Easy | 9:23 [5:50] | 9:39 [6:00]
LSR | 10:12 [6:20] | 10:28 [6:30]
Recovery | 11:00 [6:50] |
Does this look about right? That's a lot slower then I usually do. This will take a bit of getting used to!0 -
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Right, so I thought I'd get serious about setting target paces for the various types of training runs (and sticking with them).
I saw a great post in outforarun's thread earlier this year about setting these values based of a target time, and followed the same reasoning he was using.
Following the formula [HM PB x 2] + 20 min, would give a target marathon time of 4h. Adding an arbitrary 10 minutes for the sake of it: 4h10, in the hypothetical case I'd ever sign up for one. That equates to ~9:30 min/mi (5.55 min/km).
With that in mind:
Type | Min [km] | Max [km]
(5k PB) | 7:15 [4:30] | 7:23 [4:35]
Tempo | 8:03 [5:00] | 8:19 [5:10]
Easy | 9:23 [5:50] | 9:39 [6:00]
LSR | 10:12 [6:20] | 10:28 [6:30]
Recovery | 11:00 [6:50] |
Does this look about right? That's a lot slower then I usually do. This will take a bit of getting used to!
They look reasonable to me based on that 5K time but of course I'm no expert (although I'd say that recovery pace might drive you nuts :rolleyes:). Personally I have a bit of work to do in this area myself as I think my LSRs tend to be a bit on the fast side but they're usually followed by a rest or recovery day so I've gotten away with it so far. I suppose the best thing to do is try slowing the long/easy/rec runs down but keep up the tempo/faster sessions so you have a good mix going on. That should help with your mojo.0 -
Right, so I thought I'd get serious about setting target paces for the various types of training runs (and sticking with them).
I saw a great post in outforarun's thread earlier this year about setting these values based of a target time, and followed the same reasoning he was using.
Following the formula [HM PB x 2] + 20 min, would give a target marathon time of 4h. Adding an arbitrary 10 minutes for the sake of it: 4h10, in the hypothetical case I'd ever sign up for one. That equates to ~9:30 min/mi (5.55 min/km).
With that in mind:
Type | Min [km] | Max [km]
(5k PB) | 7:15 [4:30] | 7:23 [4:35]
Tempo | 8:03 [5:00] | 8:19 [5:10]
Easy | 9:23 [5:50] | 9:39 [6:00]
LSR | 10:12 [6:20] | 10:28 [6:30]
Recovery | 11:00 [6:50] |
Does this look about right? That's a lot slower then I usually do. This will take a bit of getting used to!
You could alway stick your parkrun time into the McMillan calculator (just Google: mcMillan calculator) to see what he gives you - it'll look quite different. My 23:55 parkrun time is a minute slower than yours I think and using that I get 8:51-10:06 for the long run, and 8:50-9:49 for easy. My long runs right now are much slower than the suggestion but that's because of the hills, usually I'd do them around 9:45 on normal terrain.
Of course if you were planning a marathon you'd probably want to stick to the slower end of those paces. Or maybe see what paces it gives off your recent half-marathon time, since that's closer to the target distance.0 -
Bungy Girl wrote: »They look reasonable to me based on that 5K time but of course I'm no expert (although I'd say that recovery pace might drive you nuts :rolleyes:). Personally I have a bit of work to do in this area myself as I think my LSRs tend to be a bit on the fast side but they're usually followed by a rest or recovery day so I've gotten away with it so far. I suppose the best thing to do is try slowing the long/easy/rec runs down but keep up the tempo/faster sessions so you have a good mix going on. That should help with your mojo.
Thank you BG. I think I also have "work to do" in this area - which I intend to do over the next couple of weeks. The one or two "long" runs where I deliberately slowed down, I really enjoyed. So we'll see.hillsiderunner wrote: »You could alway stick your parkrun time into the McMillan calculator (just Google: mcMillan calculator) to see what he gives you - it'll look quite different. My 23:55 parkrun time is a minute slower than yours I think and using that I get 8:51-10:06 for the long run, and 8:50-9:49 for easy. My long runs right now are much slower than the suggestion but that's because of the hills, usually I'd do them around 9:45 on normal terrain.
Of course if you were planning a marathon you'd probably want to stick to the slower end of those paces. Or maybe see what paces it gives off your recent half-marathon time, since that's closer to the target distance.
Thanks, hillside - yes, you are right. I get 8.57-10.06 for the long run based off the HM time. That's quite the range, and the upper limit is faster than PMP. Not sure if I'm applying it all correctly.
All said, I'm going to experiment with it over the next couple of weeks, and possibly adjust the ranges based on experience and your feedback, before committing to joining DG's merry bunch. 0 -
Saturday: no running. Volunteered at the Shanganagh Parkrun with the daughter. We had a lovely sunny day, unlike the previous couple of weeks. It was fun watching all the runners stream by 3 times. I saw a dad of a boy in my son's class, he was en-route to a sub-22. I best sharpen up for a parkrun in the near future, to restore the schoolyard bragging rights! My better half cruised by us, all smiles, to a PB, so she was pleased. My daughter loved it for about 3 minutes, then discovered a classmate further up in the park and took off the hi-viz. Oh well.
Towards the end, I jogged back to start/finish line. It looked like they were about to welcome home the final finishers and started to dismantle the whole setup. However, both me and the lady who took the times were convinced there was another pair of walkers out, and didn't want to pack up shop already. We stood around for a good bit. At some point one of the other volunteers (who happens to be an absolute running legend and current course-record holder) did a quick lap around the park, and confirmed that there were indeed two ladies still making their way. They soon emerged and finished. So glad we didn't tear the whole set-up down!
Sunday:
Target: 12k easy, 5:50-6:00 min/km [9:23-9:39 min/mi].
Actual: 12.9k @ 5:53 [9:28]
Armed with new runners, new socks, and new discipline regarding pace, I left for an early morning run along my favourite 8M/12k track. The Garmin was under strict instructions to keep me on pace (set at 5:55 min/km). It beeped angrily at me for going too fast for the first few kms, and I made a real effort to slow down. It was hard trying to keep the overall pace in check, as there's a good bit of elevation to be gained and lost on this course (134m in total according to Strava, seems quite a lot). The running at slower pace seems to go really well and I was delighted to hit the target. Interestingly, during the later kms, the watch had to warn me to speed up a few times. Breathing never got out of first gear, but the legs were a little heavy. Cautiously optimistic after this - and grateful to the internet coaches for the wrap on the knuckles in the above posts!
The Mizuno's were fine, a little firmer than I had expected.
An odd incident towards the end of the run. I noticed a couple of student-type kids sitting alongside the road. Quite rural setting so I never see anyone just sit there. As I approach they (2 lads, one girl) got up and, clearly intoxicated, came staggering towards me, trying to block my way. One of lads even half-tried to grab me, and when I swerved around, made a pathetic attempt to give chase, beer-bottle in hand and all. Sad state of affairs at 9.30am, I must say. It didn't spook me but my partner runs that road, too, by herself, and I wouldn't want her to experience that.0 -
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Monday:
Target: 5k easy, 5:50-6:00 min/km [9:23-9:39 min/mi].
Actual: 6.8k @ 5:39 [9.08]
I had planned to treadmill an easy 5k - but one of my greyhound colleagues pointed at the nice sunshine and persuaded me otherwise. I threatened him with the wrath of my internet coaches if we would end up going too fast. I think we hit the first 4-5k right on target pace, but it started lashing down and we sped up a little bit, hence the actual pace being a little too fast.
Tuesday:
Target: 5k LSR pace, 6:20-6:30 min/km [10:12-10:28 min/mi].
Actual: 6.1k @ 6:20 [10.12]
Not much time today, but I was keen to experiment with the new-set LSR pace. So I decided to go to the park for a slooow couple of laps to see how it felt to be running at this pace. It was quite a struggle to keep the pace down (I would be lost without my watch), but I did see the benefit of running at this pace. The breathing was totally relaxed and I felt I could keep this going for hours. Suddenly it struck me that that is the whole point.
What's with the weather?
I left in glorious sunshine. By km 2 I ran in a hailstorm. By km 4 I was too hot again. Towards the end, I had to sprint home to avoid getting totally drenched. Never a dull moment, I guess. 0 -
Monday:
Target: 5k easy, 5:50-6:00 min/km [9:23-9:39 min/mi].
Actual: 6.8k @ 5:39 [9.08]
I had planned to treadmill an easy 5k - but one of my greyhound colleagues pointed at the nice sunshine and persuaded me otherwise. I threatened him with the wrath of my internet coaches if we would end up going too fast. I think we hit the first 4-5k right on target pace, but it started lashing down and we sped up a little bit, hence the actual pace being a little too fast.
Tuesday:
Target: 5k LSR pace, 6:20-6:30 min/km [10:12-10:28 min/mi].
Actual: 6.1k @ 6:20 [10.12]
Not much time today, but I was keen to experiment with the new-set LSR pace. So I decided to go to the park for a slooow couple of laps to see how it felt to be running at this pace. It was quite a struggle to keep the pace down (I would be lost without my watch), but I did see the benefit of running at this pace. The breathing was totally relaxed and I felt I could keep this going for hours. Suddenly it struck me that that is the whole point.
What's with the weather? I left in glorious sunshine. By km 2 I ran in a hailstorm. By km 4 I was too hot again. Towards the end, I had to sprint home to avoid getting totally drenched. Never a dull moment, I guess.
we love our 4 seasons in one day here don't ya know well done on keeping the pace slow, it can actually be hard to do as daft as that sounds! 0 -
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Wednesday: Pilates
Thursday:
Target: 7k easy, 5:50-6:00 min/km [9:23-9:39 min/mi].
Actual: 7k @ 5:55 [9.31]
Solo-run at lunchtime. Very focussed on keeping the pace down, so much so that I didn't noticed a jogger coming towards me and waving furiously. Only when he was right in front of me, I noticed he was wearing the same Connemara t-shirt I was wearing proudly.
Otherwise, distinctly uneventful, but bang on target.
Friday: circuits class, brutal. Kettle-bell session which I usually enjoy even tho I am not very strong in arms and shoulders. This was tough, I saw black a few times. I am thinking of packing in this class when the current installment ends, and only have one Pilates session as cross-training per week. Much as I enjoy the circuits, I do think causes too much tiredness in the legs to really be able to run long at the weekend. One to mull over.
Saturday:
Target: 13k (8M) LSR pace, 6:20-6:30 min/km [10:12-10:28 min/mi].
Actual: 14.9k (9.2M) @ 6:23 [10.17]
First real 'long' run at the newly discovered LSR pace. I was up early and installed her majesty with breakfast and Team Umizoomi. Mizuno's and Garmin at LSR pace. I ran North along the coast towards Killiney and Dalkey. The weather was very pleasant and the scenery absolutely stunning.
Keeping the pace was hard. Initially I went too fast despite the legs being very heavy from the circuits the day before. Killiney Hill slowed me right down, but I also deliberately slowed down on the downhill sections to somehow keep the average down. Trying to keep an average pace on an undulating course is a challenge, but it provides great distraction as I keep trying to calculate from the different km-splits how far I am from target. Nerdy, I know but anything to occupy the mind.
I got lost looping back through the Dalkey 'burbs (distracted by all the fab houses) but soon found my way. Gorse Hill mansion is still there but I didn't see a for sale sign.
On one of the downhill sections towards Dalkey, a lady runner came running uphill at absolutely amazing pace, accompanied by a cyclist. She looked really, really strong. I think I recognized her as the leading lady in the Wings for Life event a few weeks back. She looked very impressive and it was an inspiring sight.
Anyway, to my surprise, the last few kms were harder then expected to stay on target. I had to speed up a few times. But, in the end, I managed to stay on the low target-pace comfortably, and ran a mile further than I had intended to do - with 260m elevation gain according to Strava. And after that, I had plenty left in the tank - breathing had never left first gear and the legs felt good.
Really enjoyed the session.0 -
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I found it really hard slowing down my pace when I started "proper" training. It does work though so keep at it and you will see results.
Yes, I hear you! I am actually enjoying it but it is hard in a strange way.Good to see another poster using km, soon we will take over, slowly but surely ;-) It's the law, isn't it? I am actually just starting to make an effort to include miles in the reports. I guess it will take a while before we're all converted (and drive on the right!). 0 -
Good to see another poster using km, soon we will take over, slowly but surely ;-)
Hmmmm ....
It's the law, isn't it? I am actually just starting to make an effort to include miles in the reports. I guess it will take a while before we're all converted (and drive on the right!).
Not the law on boards .... I bet that no-one noticed your extra fast LSR/easy pace until you added conversions to the miles
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Monday:
Planned: 4M easy
Actual: 4M @ 5:37 min/km (9:03 min/mile).
Quick run at lunchtime with the greyhounds. At my insistence and their staged annoyance, we went (much) slower than usual. When I mentioned at the end I was going to let them go ahead, I was told I'll be running on my own next. Well, so be it Bit too fast, but still a nice relaxed jog. However, I am going to have to be more disciplined around the paces.
Tuesday:
Planned: 4M easy with 5x100m strides
Actual: 5k @ 5:35 min/km, then strides, then c/d. 6.7k @ 5:25 [4.2M @ 8.43].
Getting to grips with this striding lark. I just accelerated to 80-90% for 15-20 seconds, 5 times, with 30 seconds in between. Not sure if that's the right way to do it?
The first 5k was with the wind in the back and mostly downhill, so super easy. Striding was into quite a headwind - tough enough but good session.
Wednesday: Pilates - excellent session.
Week 1/4 of pre-June 22:
Day | Planned| Actual
Mon | 4M easy | 6.4k @ 5:37 [4M @ 9.03]
Tue | 4M easy with 5x100 strides | 6.7k @ 5:25 [4.2M @ 8.43]
Wed | Cross | Pilates
Thu | 4M easy |
Fri | ?? |
Sat| 10M LSR |
Sun | rest |
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