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Leo Varadkar comes out as gay

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    #182
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Wang King wrote: »
    Barring the fact I have never seen a more incompetent public speaker in quite some time.

    Or Bertie now I think of it...


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    #183
    Fukuyama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I'm fed of people 'coming out'. Tell family and friends if you want, but I don't care if Leo Varadkar wanted a sex change to become Leona Varadkar.

    I mean I don't care what you are, it just seems to make it a bigger deal than being heterosexual. Why do we need to know the sexuality of someone we don't personally know?

    I will think no different of him, but do we need people in the public eye to tell us if they are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, intergender or transgender or whatever you are having yourself?

    Some may say this helps acceptance, but on the other hand it is making being homosexual a bigger deal than being heterosexual, and surely one wants everyone to be treated with respect whatever they are.

    The sceptic in me says, he is coming out now due to the same sex marriage referendum. When in reality it shouldn't make any difference to voters what sexual orientation he is.

    It's not a "bigger deal" but it's an issue that's still present in modern day Ireland. I'm a straight man and I'm often around to hear homophobic comments about people, because they assume it won't bother me or I won't take issue with it.

    The gay 'scene' needs to grow up and realise it's not special or taboo any more. I agree with you there. However a politician coming out in a very low-key way ahead of a SSM referendum is the right thing to do IMO.

    It's not like he knocked on your front door wearing drag with a pride flag cape and demanded to take him there, under the disco ball. :rolleyes:
    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    The general public are not his family so frankly it would be normal for the people of this country to care less about his sexuality than his ability to do the job he was elected to do.

    A lot of people will see his sexuality as an issue for them. The "church voters" in particular.


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    #184
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Jawgap wrote: »
    His populist stances, his complete absence of an original idea, his utter reliance on briefing notes and speaking points etc

    This is tosh.

    Leo may be some things, but an intellectual lightweight and populists he ain't. He has ejected a realism into the health portfolio that has been lacking or the past 20 years. He has not come out with grand plans, quick cures to systematic and chronic failures in the Irish health system that some would love to sell. In fact his no nonsense, ultra pragmatic, the 'lets get the trains running on time' mantra to his brief actually shows up most of the other ministers and the Irish civil service and politics for what it is.

    That is why he enjoys who much support across so many demographics.


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    #185
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Do explain...


    If you are campaigning for something as all the political parties will be, then they all have a vested interest in the vote going the way they want it to go.
    If we got a No vote for example, it would show a rejection of all the political parties giving they are pushing for a yes vote.
    Then there would be talk of political parties being out of touch with the people.
    The heterosexual TDs pushing for a yes vote have a vested interest in the referendum being passed, just as much as the homosexual ones do, for political reasons.


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    #186
    Leinsterblue
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Leinsterblue


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Or Bertie now I think of it...

    Be great if an irish politician would come out as being competent


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    #187
    BMJD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭BMJD


    paddydriver wrote: »
    Simon Coveney is loving this.. nothing in his way to the top now.

    being an absolute ****ebag is still in his way


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    #188
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Can't say I agree with that at all. Any interview I've heard from him he hasn't been afraid to call it as he sees it. For instance, in health he hasnt promised the sun, moon and stars which would have been populist.

    He's also one of the strongest TDs when being interviewed for me so hardly reliant on notes.

    It's easy to say what you are not going to do - his whole stance in health has to do with Enda's attempt to hamstring him by giving him that portfolio, and avoiding the trap 'Angola' represents.

    As I said earlier, as Minister he's exceptionally well placed to pilot new legislation to begin the process of proper health service reform - where is it?

    He's articulate, there's no doubt about that and intelligent, but he always swims with the flow - he likes to see which way people are running before getting in yo lead them.


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    #189
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    If you are campaigning for something as all the political parties will be, then they all have a vested interest in the vote going the way they want it to go.
    If we got a No vote for example, it would show a rejection of all the political parties giving they are pushing for a yes vote.
    Then there would be talk of political parties being out of touch with the people.
    The heterosexual TDs pushing for a yes vote have a vested interest in the referendum being passed, just as much as the homosexual ones do, for political reasons.

    Even allowing for what youre saying to be correct, can you see the difference between that sort of professional, in the public view vested interest and what could be leveled at Leo if he didn't come out?


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    #190
    Fukuyama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    Vradkars only personal vested interest is the fact that the result of the SSM referendum would effect him personally.

    A black person campaigning for equal rights in 1950s USA didn't have to declare their vested interest because it was obvious to everyone but the blind. A gay person does.

    The political "vested interests" mentioned above is just called politics. And nobody is going to vote along party lines or use their vote as a revenge tactic for an SSM referendum. It's a 100% social issue.


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    #191
    Bootros Bootros
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Bootros Bootros


    Jawgap wrote: »
    It's easy to say what you are not going to do - his whole stance in health has to do with Enda's attempt to hamstring him by giving him that portfolio, and avoiding the trap 'Angola' represents.

    As I said earlier, as Minister he's exceptionally well placed to pilot new legislation to begin the process of proper health service reform - where is it?

    He's articulate, there's no doubt about that and intelligent, but he always swims with the flow - he likes to see which way people are running before getting in yo lead them.

    Any attempt at reform will be blocked or cost vastly more money as unions kick off


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    #192
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AgileMyth wrote: »
    Never understood the notion of coming out.

    What business is it of anyone else? Nobody ever comes out as straight.


    Least of all the politicians.


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    #193
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Jawgap wrote: »
    It's easy to say what you are not going to do - his whole stance in health has to do with Enda's attempt to hamstring him by giving him that portfolio, and avoiding the trap 'Angola' represents.

    As I said earlier, as Minister he's exceptionally well placed to pilot new legislation to begin the process of proper health service reform - where is it?

    He's articulate, there's no doubt about that and intelligent, but he always swims with the flow - he likes to see which way people are running before getting in yo lead them.

    He's in the job six months.

    He has to deal with a service that's badly underfunded (didnt the budget last year have a glaring 660 million deficit?), has been historically the most problematic government department and is riddled with an inefficient culture.

    Give him a chance ffs.


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    #194
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    jank wrote: »
    This is tosh.

    Leo may be some things, but an intellectual lightweight and populists he ain't. He has ejected a realism into the health portfolio that has been lacking or the past 20 years. He has not come out with grand plans, quick cures to systematic and chronic failures in the Irish health system that some would love to sell. In fact his no nonsense, ultra pragmatic, the 'lets get the trains running on time' mantra to his brief actually shows up most of the other ministers and the Irish civil service and politics for what it is.

    That is why he enjoys who much support across so many demographics.

    This is serious nonsense - everyone knows the problems the HSE and DoH has and everyone knows the solution. Regionalisation is the way forward but you'd never hear Leo or any other minister of health suggest it because as soon as you start shutting down those inefficient units in every poky town there's a backlash.

    He's effectively not doing anything to remedy any issue in the health services - meaning he avoids controversy.

    His other great trick is to throw out a 'social' issue knowing it'll create a kerfuffle and distract from other issues.

    Saying that, it's not like he's unique - it's the FG way - get people talking about social issues (the whole Constitutional Convention was designed to whip this up) and they'll ignore other policy areas. A successful strategy until IW spectacularly exploded in their faces.


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    #195
    vienne86
    Registered Users Posts: 17,075 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    I just read this - I have alwyas held him in high regard, but I really respect him for coming out. Good guy.


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    #196
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Fair play to him and the fact he can come out on the national airwaves shows how far we've come as a culture and in a remarkably short time too. Something like this would be an alien concept in the 1970's, even 80's and 90's.
    This.

    I had no idea (but I don't follow these things avidly!) - I actually thought he was married with kids, no idea where I got that from now....

    Anyway, I hope it doesn't harm his career, but I'm included to think we've come so far in our mindsets these last couple of decades that it quite possibly won't. There'll be a bit of talk for a while and then (I hope) it will become old news.

    Which is how it should be.

    It will be interesting to see anyway.


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    #197
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    @UnaMullally: You can't underestimate the importance and impact of someone as high profile as Leo Varadkar coming out. Visibility is incredibly powerful.


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    #198
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Bootros Bootros wrote: »
    Any attempt at reform will be blocked or cost vastly more money as unions kick off

    Yes, interest groups are a problem, but look at the structure of the HSE, it's governance, it's scrutiny arrangements - they are all things the minister can influence directly and in turn they can impact patient care.

    Leo's a doctor - he knows small units provide less than optimal care, but he's also a politician and he knows advocating shutting small local units is political suicide - as with is colleagues he takes the line of political expediency instead of doing what's right.
    DeanAustin wrote: »
    He's in the job six months.

    He has to deal with a service that's badly underfunded (didnt the budget last year have a glaring 660 million deficit?), has been historically the most problematic government department and is riddled with an inefficient culture.

    Give him a chance ffs.

    Six months? He's a doctor, he's a local politician, he sits at cabinet - I'm sure he had some idea of the problems in Health and some ideas about how to fix them - instead he's focused on trying to frustrate the attempt to damage him politically.


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    #199
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Even allowing for what youre saying to be correct, can you see the difference between that sort of professional, in the public view vested interest and what could be leveled at Leo if he didn't come out?

    No, I mean it is government policy. He values his ministerial job too much for starters and would have always supported it whatever sexual orientation he is.


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    #200
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Yes, interest groups are a problem, but look at the structure of the HSE, it's governance, it's scrutiny arrangements - they are all things the minister can influence directly and in turn they can impact patient care.

    Leo's a doctor - he knows small units provide less than optimal care, but he's also a politician and he knows advocating shutting small local units is political suicide - as with is colleagues he takes the line of political expediency instead of doing what's right.



    Six months? He's a doctor, he's a local politician, he sits at cabinet - I'm sure he had some idea of the problems in Health and some ideas about how to fix them - instead he's focused on trying to frustrate the attempt to damage him politically.

    Maybe you won't want to tell me on here but I'll ask anyway - what do you work at?


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    #201
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Jawgap wrote: »
    This is serious nonsense - everyone knows the problems the HSE and DoH has and everyone knows the solution. Regionalisation is the way forward but you'd never hear Leo or any other minister of health suggest it because as soon as you start shutting down those inefficient units in every poky town there's a backlash.

    He's effectively not doing anything to remedy any issue in the health services - meaning he avoids controversy.

    His other great trick is to throw out a 'social' issue knowing it'll create a kerfuffle and distract from other issues.

    Saying that, it's not like he's unique - it's the FG way - get people talking about social issues (the whole Constitutional Convention was designed to whip this up) and they'll ignore other policy areas. A successful strategy until IW spectacularly exploded in their faces.

    Everyone knows the solution to health.....yet Leo is 'populist'. You are not a taxi driver are you? Is health not a social issue?


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    #202
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    I always suspected this simply because he doesn't speak about social issues like an archetypal straight " I've got a wife and three kids so I know what is best for YOU" politician.


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    #203
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Delighted that Leo came out publicly this morning. It can't be easy especially being a huge public figure.
    I remember my decision to come out after years of agonizing. Telling my sister then later telling her I was going to tell my parents. I was crying my eyes out on the bus up from Waterford with Defying Gravity playing to give me strength . My parents were brilliant,and I feel guilty for worrying how they'd react, but I have friends that weren't so lucky and others that don't feel able to come out.

    So well done and thank you Leo.


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    #204
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,845 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Brendan Howlin is too, so what.


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    #205
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Brendan Howlin is too, so what.

    He hasn't come out publically so you are just speculating


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    #206
    lukesmom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭lukesmom


    Fair bloody play to him for coming out and being honest huge respect for the man.


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    #207
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    What would you have expected from anyone in the first six months in that job?

    More than what he's done so far. Which is pretty much nothing.


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    #208
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Maybe you won't want to tell me on here but I'll ask anyway - what do you work at?

    Let's just say that up until September last year I had a reasonably middle to senior management post in the public service.
    jank wrote: »
    Everyone knows the solution to health.....yet Leo is 'populist'. You are not a taxi driver are you? Is health not a social issue?

    Health is a health issue. Thinks like SSM, the children's rights amendment, etc are social.

    Leo is populist because he won't come out and say what needs to be said - that larger units provide better health outcomes, therefore we need to rationalise, therefore hospitals etc need to be closed in smaller towns, to be replaced by step-down and community care facilities.

    Plus why not address the staggeringly huge administration inefficiencies in the HSE? Could it be that, again, it would mean closing offices and facilities in provincial and county towns?

    People talk about the 'interest groups' and they are problematic but I get the sense there would be significant support for a Minister who decided to take them on, so that's not the real reason the politicians (including Leo) are avoiding the fight - they're happy to blame the unions because they know if / when they win that fight the consequence will be closures which are political suicide at the local level.


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    #209
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    mad muffin wrote: »
    More than what he's done so far. Which is pretty much nothing.

    Ah no be a bit more specific than that.


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    #210
    fran17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭fran17


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Leo Varadkar just came out on RTE Radio.

    Yawn.Wonder is there anything good on tv tonight....


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    #211
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Brendan Howlin is too, so what.

    Speculation is all afaik


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