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Pope's idiotic comment.

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    #32
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,519 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    faceman wrote: »
    That's not what he said at all. He said that if someone "cursed his mother", they could expect to get a smack.

    I believe the point he was trying to make was that while he supports freedoms is speech, it's not ok to use it as an excuse to insult or antagonise people for the sake of it.

    I think this sums it up completely..
    With freedom of speech comes responsibility about what you say and don't say. Being controversial "just because you can" really is a juvenile attitude.


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    #33
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Look on the bright side, this was the Old Testament recommended punishment for blasphemy:
    Isaiah 13:16
    Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated.


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    #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    He said he'd deck someone if they insulted his mother. Which is fine and all, but isn't he meant to turn the other cheek?

    Something like that. The leader or a large section of the Christian Religion essentially justifying response to a verbal slight with violence. I am not Christian or in any way religious myself - but what little I know of the teachings of - and about - their pet Jewish Carpenters Son - this is not an expression of it.
    My name is URL wrote: »
    it becomes unreasonable for you to not expect an emotional reaction if you are intentionally offending someone.

    It is the responsibility of the person who is offended to control their anger.

    Exactly. Too many people concerned with what causes offence. And not enough people with what people do with that emotion when they feel it.

    And whatever about an emotional reaction - justifying a physical reaction does not strike me (heh) as clever.

    I can not imagine any offence anyone could level against me - that would move me to violence or to consider violence. I guess not enough people realise that if someone can move you to violence using mere words - then they have already won.
    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Everyone has a breaking point, is what I think he was trying to say.

    Speak for yourself I guess - I do not think I have a breaking point - from mere words intended to offend - where I would be motivated towards violence. It simply would not happen. It is just not in me.

    Hell I do not even hit the report button on forums when people level insult against me - with the sole exception of where I believe the users post is going to destroy a thread I am particularly enjoying.

    I guess - as a user above says - with free speech comes responsibility and an expectation to excercise some decorum - is the point the Pope may be trying to convey. I could think of better ways he might have done so however then essentially justifying a violent reaction to mere words. And that is before you factor in his role as leader of a large "Turn the other cheek" religion of the western world.


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    #35
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,519 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Hosea 13:16
    "The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."

    what on earth would this add to the discussion ?


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    #36
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    _Brian wrote: »
    what on earth would this add to the discussion ?

    It's the Old Testament punishment for blasphemy.

    Progress is good, what? :pac:


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    #37
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    _Brian wrote: »
    what on earth would this add to the discussion ?

    It would put the fear of god into the sinners. Can you believe these guys!? Saying the pope is wrong!?!? WTF... The pope is never wrong... His powers make him infallible.


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    #38
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    valoren wrote: »
    You son of a bitch!
    Cue Papal Smackdown.

    Some poor fool: "Your Mama."

    Pope Francis: "What?!?!" (The Pope then serves up a classic Stone Cold Stunner)


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    #39
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,252 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    That's not what he said. He said if someone cursed his mother he'd lamp them.

    Anyhoo, I'm not much of a pope lover, but is he all that wrong?
    Of course he's wrong. First of all, he's the pope, what's that stuff Jesus said about forgiveness and turning the other cheek?
    And in the bbc article it said "Pope Francis has defended the right to freedom of expression but has said it was wrong to provoke others by insulting their religion.". So what the op said was pretty much right. Insult religion and expect to get shot?


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    #40
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    My name is URL wrote: »
    I think the message he was trying to convey was that every person has a breaking point, and at some point it becomes unreasonable for you to not expect an emotional reaction if you are intentionally offending someone.

    It is the responsibility of the person who is offended to control their anger.

    No what he said was pretty simple. And stupid


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    #41
    diddley
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭diddley


    what about his faather? :/


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    #42
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    I find myself broadly in agreement this time.

    Not that I care less about religion or theism but think 'free speech' is more constructively served by criticizing, debunking or even lightly ridiculing religion as opposed to going out of your way to grossly insult and provoke normal believers that are not directly involved in the oppression of others.

    Not suggesting for a minute that people should be censored from doing so, obviously.


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    #43
    Macavity.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Macavity.


    Pope Francis, your mother is not a nice lady. Now punch me.


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    #44
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,850 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    The pope is basically saying everyone should adhere to the overriding principle of boards.

    "Don't be a dick".


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    #45
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    I thought what he said was if someone insulted his mother, he'd punch them. I think he was a Hell's Jehova in his rocker hair-oil days. He'd call to your house and tell you to fcuk off. :cool:


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    #46
    StormWarrior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭StormWarrior


    anncoates wrote: »
    I find myself broadly in agreement this time.

    Not that I care less about religion or theism but think 'free speech' is more constructively served by criticizing, debunking or even lightly ridiculing religion as opposed to going out of your way to grossly insult and provoke normal believers that are not directly involved in the oppression of others.

    Not suggesting for a minute that people should be censored from doing so, obviously.

    But where did the pope say that you need to "grossly" insult religion to deserve a punch? Where did he say that to "lightly ridicule" it is ok? He didn't. His comments read as you deserving to be violently assaulted no matter how constructive or light your comments.


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    #47
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    diddley wrote: »
    what about his faather? :/

    I wanna fight his faaader. :cool:


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    #48
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,587 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    To be fair if you're going to openly pledge your devotion to a bunch of 2,000 year old stories based on nothing but blind faith then you should be open to having that devotion mocked.

    It isn't the people doing the mockng who are shown to be insecure.

    I don't know about that, I guess they're only insecure if they respond to it?

    What motivates people to do the mocking in the first place?


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    #49
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,519 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Of course he's wrong. First of all, he's the pope, what's that stuff Jesus said about forgiveness and turning the other cheek?
    And in the bbc article it said "Pope Francis has defended the right to freedom of expression but has said it was wrong to provoke others by insulting their religion.". So what the op said was pretty much right. Insult religion and expect to get shot?

    Can you post any article where the pope said that if you insult religion expect to get shot !!

    In any article I'seen he condemed the shootings;
    http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-issues-strongest-condemnation-attack-france
    Whatever the motives may be, homicidal violence is abhorrent, is never justifiable; the life and dignity of all are guaranteed and protected firmly, any incitement to hatred be refused, respect cultivated.



    I think any right minded individual can see that the Pope isn't in favor of shooting people for mocking religion.

    I actually think he is spot on in saying that you can't go round mocking people just for the sake of it, some people will react and react badly.

    Incidentally I think the attack in Paris is more to do with Western super powers interfering in predominantly Muslim countries, as with the attack against police being planned in Belgium. In Paris it just suited to also have a go at the magazine mocking their profit, two birds with the one stone type of thing. I think just isolating this shooting to just being a reaction to the cartoons is wrong, but the governments are happy to keep this notion going.


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    #50
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    I don't know he may have a point. And that's not apologising any of the looney stuff.
    But religion is a thing very close to the heart for many people. Not for me but for many it is.
    Why go out of your way to rile them up?
    Don't we have blasphemy laws in Ireland even?
    There is free speech and then there's riling people up for the sake of it.
    We kno there are people who are extremely sensitive to that kind of thing. We may think it's idiotic but what purpose does it serve to rub it in. To make ourselves feel superior?


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    #51
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    I'm sorry, but this whole "you can't go round offending people because you might get hurt" argument is a bit too close to the "if you go around in a short skirt and get raped it's your own fault" argument for my liking.


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    #52
    brooke 2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    I don't have a link but in the newspaper today the pope is quoted as saying, free speech is a fundamental right and people have a duty to speak their minds, but if you mock religion you deserve to be punched. What a tw@t!

    Did you bother to read ALL of what he said?


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    #53
    Caliden
    Registered Users Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    What ever happened to the child's poem "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never harm me" ?


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    #54
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Caliden wrote: »
    What ever happened to the child's poem "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never harm me" ?

    That one always left out the last stanza, the one about the name being written on a piece of parchment and wrapped around a claymore. :pac:


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    #55
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    OP you get very worked up over nothing, the Pope doesn't like to see religion mocked, wow who would have thunk it!


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    #56
    MonkeyTennis
    Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭MonkeyTennis


    Im not sure.


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    #57
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    That's not what he said. He said if someone cursed his mother he'd lamp them.

    Anyhoo, I'm not much of a pope lover, but is he all that wrong?

    No his words were misconstrued and put out of context.


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    #58
    brooke 2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    faceman wrote: »
    That's not what he said at all. He said that if someone "cursed his mother", they could expect to get a smack.

    I believe the point he was trying to make was that while he supports freedoms of speech, it's not ok to use it as an excuse to insult or antagonise people for the sake of it.

    +100.


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    #59
    the dark phantom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 772 ✭✭✭the dark phantom


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    I don't have a link but in the newspaper today the pope is quoted as saying, free speech is a fundamental right and people have a duty to speak their minds, but if you mock religion you deserve to be punched. What a tw@t!

    Politically correct ass-licker offended by Pope speaking like a normal person shocker.


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    #60
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Shenshen wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but this whole "you can't go round offending people because you might get hurt" argument is a bit too close to the "if you go around in a short skirt and get raped it's your own fault" argument for my liking.

    I don't think that's what he meant to be fair. I think it was more that you just shouldn't be surprised if some-one reacts badly if/when you insult or ridicule them.


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    #61
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Jon Stewart talked about something like this on the daily show.
    There were millions marching in france to support freedom of speech but can you imagine if someone stepped into the middle of it and said "Charlie Hebdo deserved to die"? They'd probably get a quick punch from someone. Possibly quite a lot more.


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