Pope's idiotic comment.

StormWarrior

I don't have a link but in the newspaper today the pope is quoted as saying, free speech is a fundamental right and people have a duty to speak their minds, but if you mock religion you deserve to be punched. What a tw@t!

Mantis Toboggan

He's a legend!

Realt Dearg Sec

Damn, and he was doing so well up till then...

conditioned games

Are we that hollow and insecure that we need to insult religion?

The Backwards Man

That's not what he said. He said if someone cursed his mother he'd lamp them.

Anyhoo, I'm not much of a pope lover, but is he all that wrong?

SweetChaos

Silly Papa

StormWarrior

Well aside from the obvious contradiction in what the idiot says, the catholic church's morals are quite warped aren't they? Mock religion and you deserve to be violently assaulted, but molest children and you should get off scot-free.

cml387

StormWarrior wrote: »

I don't have a link but in the newspaper today the pope is quoted as saying, free speech is a fundamental right and people have a duty to speak their minds, but if you mock religion you deserve to be punched. What a tw@t!

What the pope actually said.

StormWarrior

The Backwards Man wrote: »

That's not what he said. He said if someone cursed his mother he'd lamp them.

Anyhoo, I'm not much of a pope lover, but is he all that wrong?

No, he said if you mock religion you deserve the same as if you'd insulted his mother - a punch.

The_Valeyard

StormWarrior wrote: »

I don't have a link but in the newspaper today the pope is quoted as saying, free speech is a fundamental right and people have a duty to speak their minds, but if you mock religion you deserve to be punched. What a tw@t!

Tw@t of a post, completely out of context to what he said.

I did like his comment about if you insulted his mother,you get a punch , fair is fair.

RobYourBuilder

He said he'd deck someone if they insulted his mother. Which is fine and all, but isn't he meant to turn the other cheek?

SprostonGreen

StormWarrior wrote: »

I don't have a link but in the newspaper today the pope is quoted as saying, free speech is a fundamental right and people have a duty to speak their minds, but if you mock religion you deserve to be punched. What a tw@t!

Il Papa don't preach.

faceman

StormWarrior wrote: »

I don't have a link but in the newspaper today the pope is quoted as saying, free speech is a fundamental right and people have a duty to speak their minds, but if you mock religion you deserve to be punched. What a tw@t!

That's not what he said at all. He said that if someone "cursed his mother", they could expect to get a smack.

I believe the point he was trying to make was that while he supports freedoms of speech, it's not ok to use it as an excuse to insult or antagonise people for the sake of it.

MonkeyTennis

The thing I like about this pope is that he looks like a pope. The last fella looked like evil Matlock

The Backwards Man

StormWarrior wrote: »

No, he said if you mock religion you deserve the same as if you'd insulted his mother - a punch.

And that's his opinion, is he not entitled to it as much as you are entitled to yours?

Or do you think free speech should fundamentally exist to give you the right to mock and abuse others?

Beefy78

conditioned games wrote: »

Are we that hollow and insecure that we need to insult religion?

To be fair if you're going to openly pledge your devotion to a bunch of 2,000 year old stories based on nothing but blind faith then you should be open to having that devotion mocked.

It isn't the people doing the mockng who are shown to be insecure.

AlanS181824

He's a legend of a man!

valoren

You son of a bitch!
Cue Papal Smackdown.

seamus

conditioned games wrote: »

Are we that hollow and insecure that we need to insult religion?

Practically everything insults somebody's religion.

Are religious people that insecure that words said by someone else can shake their beliefs?

porsche959

Leviticus 24:10-23English Standard Version (ESV)

Punishment for Blasphemy

10 Now an Israelite woman's son, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the people of Israel. And the Israelite woman's son and a man of Israel fought in the camp, 11 and the Israelite woman's son blasphemed the Name, and cursed. Then they brought him to Moses. His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan. 12 And they put him in custody, till the will of the Lord should be clear to them.
13 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 14 “Bring out of the camp the one who cursed, and let all who heard him lay their hands on his head, and let all the congregation stone him. 15 And speak to the people of Israel, saying, Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin. 16 Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

Shenshen

So he'll respond to mere words with an act of violence?

I'm not even Christian and I find that morally wrong and reprehensible! What harm do words do to you?

The_Valeyard

StormWarrior wrote: »

I don't have a link but in the newspaper today the pope is quoted as saying, free speech is a fundamental right and people have a duty to speak their minds, but if you mock religion you deserve to be punched. What a tw@t!

StormWarrior wrote: »

Well aside from the obvious contradiction in what the idiot says, the catholic church's morals are quite warped aren't they? Mock religion and you deserve to be violently assaulted, but molest children and you should get off scot-free.

StormWarrior wrote: »

No, he said if you mock religion you deserve the same as if you'd insulted his mother - a punch.

Im not sure what it is OP, but I think, that just maybe, *maybe*,
your not a fan of the Catholic church.

StormWarrior

The Backwards Man wrote: »

And that's his opinion, is he not entitled to it as much as you are entitled to yours?

Or do you think free speech should exist to give you the right to mock and others?

Firstly do you not see the irony, he's saying "I support free speech unless you say something I don't like, in which case you deserve to be assaulted."

Secondly what about his Christian turning the other cheek bollox which he clearly doesn't believe in? Not to mention it would be nice to see the catholic church that passionate about stamping out their abuse of children.

My name is URL

I think the message he was trying to convey was that every person has a breaking point, and at some point it becomes unreasonable for you to not expect an emotional reaction if you are intentionally offending someone.

It is the responsibility of the person who is offended to control their anger.

StormWarrior

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Im not sure what it is OP, but I think, that just maybe, *maybe*,
your not a fan of the Catholic church.

Why, because I pointed out that the pope said something stupid?

DarkyHughes

It's the pope, what did you expect his position on religion would be? Plus punching people is alot more manly than shooting people.

StormWarrior

Not quite the religion bashing thread you'd hoped, eh OP?

Back to the Atheism forum you go. Plenty of like-minded 'persecuted' people there

I'm not an atheist. Can you really not tell the difference between criticising what one person has said, and "religion-bashing"? I take it that you are a catholic then if you are so offended by someone pointing out that the pope has said something stupid.

Guy:Incognito

StormWarrior wrote: »

No, he said if you mock religion you deserve the same as if you'd insulted his mother - a punch.

Is forgiveness not what the church is all about?
Is all lamping of people not therefore wrong?

Why is mocking certain people or groups in comedy ok but religion is off the table? Bit precious, no?

porsche959

Don't kick kick Bishop Brennan up the arse is my takeaway from this one.

jackofalltrades

From here:

“There are so many people who speak badly about religions or other religions, who make fun of them, who make a game out of the religions of others,” he said.
“They are provocateurs. And what happens to them is what would happen to Dr Gasparri if he says a curse word against my mother. There is a limit.”

He's basically saying that if you criticise religion that you deserve any violence that you receive in retaliation.
Fairly disgusting comments to make in light of recent events.

AudreyHepburn

In fairness he is right.

You can insult and mock all you want, freedom of speech and expression cannot be suppressed, but you must expect that people will react to it, and probably not a good way.

Everyone has a breaking point, is what I think he was trying to say.

_Brian

faceman wrote: »

That's not what he said at all. He said that if someone "cursed his mother", they could expect to get a smack.

I believe the point he was trying to make was that while he supports freedoms is speech, it's not ok to use it as an excuse to insult or antagonise people for the sake of it.

I think this sums it up completely..
With freedom of speech comes responsibility about what you say and don't say. Being controversial "just because you can" really is a juvenile attitude.

porsche959

Look on the bright side, this was the Old Testament recommended punishment for blasphemy:

Isaiah 13:16
Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated.

RobYourBuilder

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

He said he'd deck someone if they insulted his mother. Which is fine and all, but isn't he meant to turn the other cheek?

Something like that. The leader or a large section of the Christian Religion essentially justifying response to a verbal slight with violence. I am not Christian or in any way religious myself - but what little I know of the teachings of - and about - their pet Jewish Carpenters Son - this is not an expression of it.

My name is URL wrote: »

it becomes unreasonable for you to not expect an emotional reaction if you are intentionally offending someone.

It is the responsibility of the person who is offended to control their anger.

Exactly. Too many people concerned with what causes offence. And not enough people with what people do with that emotion when they feel it.

And whatever about an emotional reaction - justifying a physical reaction does not strike me (heh) as clever.

I can not imagine any offence anyone could level against me - that would move me to violence or to consider violence. I guess not enough people realise that if someone can move you to violence using mere words - then they have already won.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Everyone has a breaking point, is what I think he was trying to say.

Speak for yourself I guess - I do not think I have a breaking point - from mere words intended to offend - where I would be motivated towards violence. It simply would not happen. It is just not in me.

Hell I do not even hit the report button on forums when people level insult against me - with the sole exception of where I believe the users post is going to destroy a thread I am particularly enjoying.

I guess - as a user above says - with free speech comes responsibility and an expectation to excercise some decorum - is the point the Pope may be trying to convey. I could think of better ways he might have done so however then essentially justifying a violent reaction to mere words. And that is before you factor in his role as leader of a large "Turn the other cheek" religion of the western world.

_Brian

porsche959 wrote: »

Hosea 13:16
"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."

what on earth would this add to the discussion ?

porsche959

_Brian wrote: »

what on earth would this add to the discussion ?

It's the Old Testament punishment for blasphemy.

Progress is good, what? :pac:

srsly78

_Brian wrote: »

what on earth would this add to the discussion ?

It would put the fear of god into the sinners. Can you believe these guys!? Saying the pope is wrong!?!? WTF... The pope is never wrong... His powers make him infallible.

Son Of A Vidic

valoren wrote: »

You son of a bitch!
Cue Papal Smackdown.

Some poor fool: "Your Mama."

Pope Francis: "What?!?!" (The Pope then serves up a classic Stone Cold Stunner)

Cienciano

The Backwards Man wrote: »

That's not what he said. He said if someone cursed his mother he'd lamp them.

Anyhoo, I'm not much of a pope lover, but is he all that wrong?

Of course he's wrong. First of all, he's the pope, what's that stuff Jesus said about forgiveness and turning the other cheek?
And in the bbc article it said "Pope Francis has defended the right to freedom of expression but has said it was wrong to provoke others by insulting their religion.". So what the op said was pretty much right. Insult religion and expect to get shot?

Peist2007

My name is URL wrote: »

I think the message he was trying to convey was that every person has a breaking point, and at some point it becomes unreasonable for you to not expect an emotional reaction if you are intentionally offending someone.

It is the responsibility of the person who is offended to control their anger.

No what he said was pretty simple. And stupid

diddley

what about his faather?

anncoates

I find myself broadly in agreement this time.

Not that I care less about religion or theism but think 'free speech' is more constructively served by criticizing, debunking or even lightly ridiculing religion as opposed to going out of your way to grossly insult and provoke normal believers that are not directly involved in the oppression of others.

Not suggesting for a minute that people should be censored from doing so, obviously.

Macavity.

Pope Francis, your mother is not a nice lady. Now punch me.

5starpool

The pope is basically saying everyone should adhere to the overriding principle of boards.

"Don't be a dick".

jimgoose

I thought what he said was if someone insulted his mother, he'd punch them. I think he was a Hell's Jehova in his rocker hair-oil days. He'd call to your house and tell you to fcuk off. :cool:

StormWarrior

anncoates wrote: »

I find myself broadly in agreement this time.

Not that I care less about religion or theism but think 'free speech' is more constructively served by criticizing, debunking or even lightly ridiculing religion as opposed to going out of your way to grossly insult and provoke normal believers that are not directly involved in the oppression of others.

Not suggesting for a minute that people should be censored from doing so, obviously.

But where did the pope say that you need to "grossly" insult religion to deserve a punch? Where did he say that to "lightly ridicule" it is ok? He didn't. His comments read as you deserving to be violently assaulted no matter how constructive or light your comments.

jimgoose

diddley wrote: »

what about his faather?

I wanna fight his faaader. :cool:

faceman

Beefy78 wrote: »

To be fair if you're going to openly pledge your devotion to a bunch of 2,000 year old stories based on nothing but blind faith then you should be open to having that devotion mocked.

It isn't the people doing the mockng who are shown to be insecure.

I don't know about that, I guess they're only insecure if they respond to it?

What motivates people to do the mocking in the first place?

_Brian

Cienciano wrote: »

Of course he's wrong. First of all, he's the pope, what's that stuff Jesus said about forgiveness and turning the other cheek?
And in the bbc article it said "Pope Francis has defended the right to freedom of expression but has said it was wrong to provoke others by insulting their religion.". So what the op said was pretty much right. Insult religion and expect to get shot?

Can you post any article where the pope said that if you insult religion expect to get shot !!

In any article I'seen he condemed the shootings;
http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-issues-strongest-condemnation-attack-france

Whatever the motives may be, homicidal violence is abhorrent, is never justifiable; the life and dignity of all are guaranteed and protected firmly, any incitement to hatred be refused, respect cultivated.



I think any right minded individual can see that the Pope isn't in favor of shooting people for mocking religion.

I actually think he is spot on in saying that you can't go round mocking people just for the sake of it, some people will react and react badly.

Incidentally I think the attack in Paris is more to do with Western super powers interfering in predominantly Muslim countries, as with the attack against police being planned in Belgium. In Paris it just suited to also have a go at the magazine mocking their profit, two birds with the one stone type of thing. I think just isolating this shooting to just being a reaction to the cartoons is wrong, but the governments are happy to keep this notion going.

Boskowski

I don't know he may have a point. And that's not apologising any of the looney stuff.
But religion is a thing very close to the heart for many people. Not for me but for many it is.
Why go out of your way to rile them up?
Don't we have blasphemy laws in Ireland even?
There is free speech and then there's riling people up for the sake of it.
We kno there are people who are extremely sensitive to that kind of thing. We may think it's idiotic but what purpose does it serve to rub it in. To make ourselves feel superior?

Shenshen

I'm sorry, but this whole "you can't go round offending people because you might get hurt" argument is a bit too close to the "if you go around in a short skirt and get raped it's your own fault" argument for my liking.