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'Convicted serial rapist to be voluntarily euthanised in Belgium'

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    #122
    h2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭h2005


    ryanf1 wrote: »
    Should someone who is guilty of such crimes as committed by this man be allowed to die peacefully?

    He is being removed from this world forever. What do we gain by increasing his suffering as he is euthanised?


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    #123
    PhilBill
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭PhilBill


    h2005 wrote: »
    He is being removed from this world forever. What do we gain by increasing his suffering as he is euthanised?


    Some lives are worse than death.


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    #124
    PhilBill
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭PhilBill


    He wants to die as he cannot take life anymore. Someone who has committed such crimes should suffer for the rest of his days and should not be given the easy way out.


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    #125
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,090 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Give him a rope with a noose tied if he wants to die.


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    #126
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    PhilBill wrote: »
    He wants to die as he cannot take life anymore. Someone who has committed such crimes should suffer for the rest of his days and should not be given the easy way out.
    How does this benefit society?


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    #127
    PhilBill
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭PhilBill


    Billy86 wrote: »
    How does this benefit society?

    You could ask that question about literally anything.


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    #128
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    ryanf1 wrote: »
    Should someone who is guilty of such crimes as committed by this man be allowed to die peacefully?

    So you're happy for the guy to die by his own hand so long as he does it in some horrific manner like dowsing himself in petrol and lighting a match just to satisfy your own sickness? You need some counselling, I'd say.


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    #129
    looking_around
    Registered Users Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    let him die, he's served time. his victims gain nothing by forcing him to stay alive, the government gains nothing by paying to keep him alive.


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    #130
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,090 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Egginacup wrote: »
    So you're happy for the guy to die by his own hand so long as he does it in some horrific manner like dowsing himself in petrol and lighting a match just to satisfy your own sickness? You need some counselling, I'd say.

    He wants to die because he claims he is suffering intolerably so why not let him make that choice, toe reality is too many people make that choice to take their own life every day. Would Doctors intervene like this to end the suffering of a terminally ill patient?


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    #131
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    PhilBill wrote: »
    You could ask that question about literally anything.
    So it doesn't benefit society at all then, all it does is excite some sadists while allowing the euthanasia to go ahead would save tax payers a lot of money and the general public any risk of him re-offending if he were ever granted release.


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    #132
    Holsten
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    I can't imagine after 30 years in prison you'd be in the right frame of mind to make this decision.

    I'm not completely against it if it is 100% what he wants but to me it's too similar to the death penalty which I am against.


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    #133
    Deenie123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭Deenie123


    He's served 30 years. He refused parole, presumably still considers himself a threat to others. Doesn't want (on some level) to do it again and so in lieu of parole, wants to be allowed to die.

    Makes sense to me.


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    #134
    rosedream
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭rosedream


    I am glad he wants to die, tbh. Saves taxpayer money, less risk of him re-offending if he ever got a chance to be released. It might also bring a bit of peace of mind to his victims, knowing that he is gone off this earth for good.


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    #135
    looking_around
    Registered Users Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    Holsten wrote: »
    I can't imagine after 30 years in prison you'd be in the right frame of mind to make this decision.

    Idk, I think there comes a time euthanasia should be allowed regardless of "frame of mind" (elderly and frail for example, serious criminals...I'm not for forced death, but I see nothing wrong with giving them the choice and then people who severely ill with no recovery possible/likely.)


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    #136
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    PhilBill wrote: »
    He wants to die as he cannot take life anymore. Someone who has committed such crimes should suffer for the rest of his days and should not be given the easy way out.
    no he shouldn't. if he wants to die, thats his right

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #137
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ryanf1 wrote: »
    Give him a rope with a noose tied if he wants to die.
    no, a proper injection is the way to go, or a drink

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #138
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,090 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    end of the road wrote: »
    no, a proper injection is the way to go, or a drink

    Will it be a drink or injection?


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    #139
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    ryanf1 wrote: »
    He wants to die because he claims he is suffering intolerably so why not let him make that choice, toe reality is too many people make that choice to take their own life every day. Would Doctors intervene like this to end the suffering of a terminally ill patient?

    Well people like you are very fond of asking the question "what if it was your family member who was raped" ....always the easy and childish cop out. So how about "what if it was your brother who got wasted one night and killed his kids and their mother because he burnt the house down or went bananas in some trance and killed your father"? And now he wants to die....would you be all in agreement with us wanting him to suffer for decades?


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    #140
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ryanf1 wrote: »
    Will it be a drink or injection?
    whatever one wants

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #141
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,776 ✭✭✭SeanW


    end of the road wrote: »
    it does if the punishment is the exact same as what they did, so for rape the criminal is raped or murdered. thats a form of legitimizing the crime.
    I would have thought it was more about punishing the crime. Silly me, I would have thought that making someone pay for a crime does not legitimize it in any way.
    thats the fault of the system. protest or write a letter
    But you have to understand that when Johnny McScumbag kills someone while out on bail for his 137th crime, people start wondering what the alternatives are ...
    floggg wrote: »
    So if the victim wants a shoplifer jailed for life should we accede to their demands?
    Within reason. It would be necessary to consider whether the impact on the victim, or the likliehood of the perpetrator re-offending on release, would warrant such a penalty.
    And there are very few, if any, truly victimless crimes.
    Oh there are plenty of victimless crimes. The best example is that of Ireland prior to 1996 when homosexuality was a crime.
    "Speeding" on for example a grade separated dual carriageway with a 30kph speed limit is another. (The majority of speed offenses fall into this category IMHO)
    How about growing your own weed? There a victim with that?
    And the Feminist-Left is about to impose a new victimless offense in Ireland - by imposing the misandrist "Swedish model" on sex-work. (I.E. the buyer is always a criminal, regardless of the circumstances)

    These are just the examples I can think of off the top of my head. In both in the past, present, and future there is plenty of victimless crime offenses just on our fair small isle. That's before we get to more authoritarian regimes like China, North Korea, the Islamic world etc.
    But if you take something like insurance fraud, since a corporation doesn't have feelings how would a victim-centric approach to punishment work there?

    Since there's no human victim to appease do we give them a different type of punishment than for other types of fraud?
    You take into account the likely damage. Take insurance fraud, this increases the the premiums of all customers of that company and indeed throughout the system. So defrauding an insurance company out of €100,000 under a certain type of insurance for example is the equivalent of stealing that sum of money from everyone, esepcially users of that kind of insurance and customers of that company. The same would be true of other non-individual-victim crimes such as environmental crime, tax fraud and the like.


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    #142
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    ryanf1 wrote: »
    He wants to die because he claims he is suffering intolerably so why not let him make that choice, toe reality is too many people make that choice to take their own life every day. Would Doctors intervene like this to end the suffering of a terminally ill patient?

    In Belgium and the Netherlands, yes.

    You seem to have some kind of difficulty in getting your head round the fact that this is in a country where euthanasia is available to those who request it. You keep thinking this is America or Ireland where the state and the public stick their noses into issues that don't concern them just to make a point.


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    #143
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    SeanW wrote: »
    I would have thought it was more about punishing the crime. Silly me, I would have thought that making someone pay for a crime does not legitimize it in any way.

    But you have to understand that when Johnny McScumbag kills someone while out on bail for his 137th crime, people start wondering what the alternatives are ...

    Within reason. It would be necessary to consider whether the impact on the victim, or the likliehood of the perpetrator re-offending on release, would warrant such a penalty.

    Oh there are plenty of victimless crimes. The best example is that of Ireland prior to 1996 when homosexuality was a crime.
    "Speeding" on for example a grade separated dual carriageway with a 30kph speed limit is another. (The majority of speed offenses fall into this category IMHO)
    How about growing your own weed? There a victim with that?
    And the Feminist-Left is about to impose a new victimless offense in Ireland - by imposing the misandrist "Swedish model" on sex-work. (I.E. the buyer is always a criminal, regardless of the circumstances)

    These are just the examples I can think of off the top of my head. In both in the past, present, and future there is plenty of victimless crime offenses just on our fair small isle. That's before we get to more authoritarian regimes like China, North Korea, the Islamic world etc.

    You take into account the likely damage. Take insurance fraud, this increases the the premiums of all customers of that company and indeed throughout the system. So defrauding an insurance company out of €100,000 under a certain type of insurance for example is the equivalent of stealing that sum of money from everyone, esepcially users of that kind of insurance and customers of that company. The same would be true of other non-individual-victim crimes such as environmental crime, tax fraud and the like.

    I would take umbrage with the "victims" of insurance fraud. The increased premiums come at the behest of the insurance company/corporation purely to recoup their loss/increase their profit. The corporation could, if it were truly altruistic, take the loss and not affect others' payments. But corporations are not altruistic. They are predatory and only seek to make profits no matter the damage or ramifications.


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    #144
    desertcircus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    PLUG71 wrote: »
    Would you still see it in the same light if somebody close to you was raped or killed?

    I think not somehow.

    That's not a point. Our entire justice system is built upon the principle of impartiality.


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    #145
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,564 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    The idea you're missing is they want him to suffer.

    I didn't miss the point at all - that was my point.

    The comments would usually be along the lines of:

    'Cut off his balls and let him slowly bleed to death.'
    'Execute him. it's the only way to be sure he'll never reoffend.'
    'Why should my taxes pay to keep him alive?'
    'Give him the needle. I'll inject him myself.'

    But now that this guy actually wants to die:

    'Execution is too easy, let him rot in prison.'
    'Why should he get the easy way out.'
    'It should be painful, not humane.'


    It's like, whatever he wants, is the thing he can't be allowed to have. It's only what he should get if he doesn't want it.

    Because whatever he doesn't want, that's what's needed to make him SUFFERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.


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    #146
    GalwayGuitar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 194 ✭✭GalwayGuitar


    Lol he had his request denied. No he can suffer like he deserves.


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    #147
    Deenie123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭Deenie123


    GalwayGuitar wrote: »
    Lol he had his request denied. No he can suffer like he deserves.

    You find human suffering funny? That's interesting. I'm all in favour of people doing their time. He's served his. 30 years, was up for parole and he himself refused parole. Interestingly, I wonder if he was out on parole would he have been able to opt for it himself? Or just have access to the tools necessary for it? But in the meantime he may well have attacked someone else... So he wanted to stay in prison and die there. But you find any of that funny? Weird.


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    #148
    GalwayGuitar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 194 ✭✭GalwayGuitar


    Deenie123 wrote: »
    You find human suffering funny? That's interesting. I'm all in favour of people doing their time. He's served his. 30 years, was up for parole and he himself refused parole. Interestingly, I wonder if he was out on parole would he have been able to opt for it himself? Or just have access to the tools necessary for it? But in the meantime he may well have attacked someone else... So he wanted to stay in prison and die there. But you find any of that funny? Weird.

    I'm not a bleeding heart, sorry.


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    #149
    Deenie123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭Deenie123


    Neither am I, I just think it's weird to delight in human suffering. That doesn't make me a bleeding heart, that means I'm not a psychopath of some description.


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    #150
    GalwayGuitar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 194 ✭✭GalwayGuitar


    Deenie123 wrote: »
    Neither am I, I just think it's weird to delight in human suffering. That doesn't make me a bleeding heart, that means I'm not a psychopath of some description.

    A convicted murderer and rapist is pacing his cell and going mad. Well good. I would say its what he deserves.


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    #151
    Deenie123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭Deenie123


    GalwayGuitar wrote: »
    A convicted murderer and rapist is pacing his cell and going mad. Well good. I would say its what he deserves.

    I think the punishment fits the crime, but I don't delight in it or find it funny. Finding it funny or entertaining is a bit disturbed tbh


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