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'Convicted serial rapist to be voluntarily euthanised in Belgium'

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    #62
    PLUG71
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭PLUG71


    allibastor wrote: »
    But he is not dying on his own terms, really is he.

    He is still in prison and has been for 30 years. He is still living with what he did. He still now thinks that he is a no hoper and should just end it.

    At the end of the day it costs the tax payer a good bit of money to keep him in prison, this money could go towards an operation for a child or something similar.

    As said I fully believe people who do the crimes he has committed should get a similar punishment, but at the same time, dead is dead, there is nothing here for you after that so he wont get to do anything else again, ever.

    So the cost of keeping him for the last 30 years is ok?


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    #63
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    PLUG71 wrote: »
    So the cost of keeping him for the last 30 years is ok?
    So do you mean you would you have preferred him put to death right away, but not now 30 years later?


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    #64
    PLUG71
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭PLUG71


    Billy86 wrote: »
    So do you mean you would you have preferred him put to death right away, but not now 30 years later?

    My point is that they have already kept him for 30 years and suddenly he gets choices!


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    #65
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    PLUG71 wrote: »
    So then its ok to put this guy down.

    Our so called progressive society let terminal sick people suffer but a serial rapist has choices?

    Another stupid statement. People in Belgium with terminal illnesses are allowed the option of euthanasia.


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    #66
    PLUG71
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭PLUG71


    Egginacup wrote: »
    Another stupid statement. People in Belgium with terminal illnesses are allowed the option of euthanasia.

    Idid'nt know that!

    I stand corrected and do apologise to all concerned!:rolleyes::)


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    #67
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    PLUG71 wrote: »
    My point is that they have already kept him for 30 years and suddenly he gets choices!

    Well given that euthanasia was only made legal 12 there years ago... be honest, did you read the article in the OP at all or is your argument purely emotive and nothing else?

    And who's to say he didn't have that as a potential choice for the last 12 years that he only pursued more recently?


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    #68
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    PLUG71 wrote: »
    But why should he have any choices?

    If he was sick and in need of an operation he would be well within his rights to receive medical treatment ...or would you be screaming about that too "No don't give him that painkiller or those antibiotics! That infection must worsen and he must suffer in agony and filth!!"


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    #69
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    chupacabra wrote: »
    Not even a joke tbh. Serial rapists deserve nothing less than the disgusting crimes they themselves have committed. Death is far too lenient an ending for some.

    You honestly don't see anything disturbing about wishing someone to be raped? I genuinely don't understand this mindset


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    #70
    PLUG71
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭PLUG71


    Egginacup wrote: »
    If he was sick and in need of an operation he would be well within his rights to receive medical treatment ...or would you be screaming about that too "No don't give him that painkiller or those antibiotics! That infection must worsen and he must suffer in agony and filth!!"

    That is not the point!!

    He is being given the right to have the choice to die.

    Medical treatment has nothing to do with this and he should be treated if required!

    He did the crime and should not be let off because basically he decides enough is enough!


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    #71
    manonboard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭manonboard


    PLUG71 wrote: »
    But why should he have any choices?

    I think in this situation he is being given the choice ( and one i agree with)
    because a) His prison sentence in is the hopes of rehabilitation in some way.. and if he actively has resigned himself to never learn to not be a serial rapist.. then he has quit the possibility of rehabilitation and thus keep him in prison in pointless..
    Like if he was given parole now.. he would rape again.. He even turned down the chance of parole.. this to me means it's likely that he recognises that he a threat to society and wishes to end the pattern of violence/prison.. It's likely for selfish reasons.. but as it helps society I'm ok with that. Forcing him to be in prison and one day getting parole is a bigger threat to society.
    and b) It permanently remove the threat from our society. So the authorities support his decision because it happens to agree with their goals.

    The choice is just an illusion, he only has a choice because the outcome is what the authorities are happy with. A removal of the threat of a permanent serial rapist and a saving of money.

    Thats how i see it anyways.

    My desire is for a safer, minimal violent society free of rapists.. to this end, this works for me... though I admit, I feel some what saddened and ..em.. disheartened that we have another human being we were unable to educate/rehabilitate and show them the error of their ways.. All we've done is allow a person with violent tendencies to form(our fault, he was once a blank slate child like the rest of us) and a disregard for others equality (again..this thread is proof we teach this.. a few post back he was called SubHuman, he sees his victims this way)..and then lock em up until they wanted to die.. then we killed him..
    Nothing progressive/helpful/or proud in any of that for us..


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    #72
    manonboard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭manonboard


    To PLUG71

    As you want him to stay in prison and continue his term. is it your opinion that society will benefit more from this than his volunteered death?
    if so, in what ways? I think it's worth requiring to be considered, he could be out free again in the future if he continues his term.. and he has resigned himself to not changing.

    What do you think?


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    #73
    PLUG71
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭PLUG71


    manonboard wrote: »
    To PLUG71

    As you want him to stay in prison and continue his term. is it your opinion that society will benefit more from this than his volunteered death?
    if so, in what ways? I think it's worth requiring to be considered, he could be out free again in the future if he continues his term.. and he has resigned himself to not changing.

    What do you think?

    Hands up, you are right!

    Having read your reasoning in your posts I have to change my view regarding this!


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    #74
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    PLUG71 wrote: »
    Hands up, you are right!

    Having read your reasoning in your posts I have to change my view regarding this!

    Even if he was never eligible for parole, would you see a benefit for society as a whole to keeping him alive against his will?

    If so, what.


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    #75
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    osarusan wrote: »
    Post from that page:
    you always get that **** on such facebook statuses/posts. just low rent mouthing off. the rest of us just sit back and think how pathetic they are

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #76
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    PLUG71 wrote: »
    He did the crime and should not be let off because basically he decides enough is enough!
    Yeah, because death is exactly the same as being "let off". :rolleyes:

    Which, by the way, he had a chance of anyway - as in early parole. He turned it down, a point among many which you appear to be going out of your way to ignore.


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    #77
    PhilBill
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭PhilBill


    From what I can tell from previous posts a lot of people are talking of how much would be saved in the case of killing the man.

    I don't know if this can be generalized to Belgium, but in America the death penalty costs a whole lot more than keeping the incarcerated until their death.

    http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42


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    #78
    PLUG71
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭PLUG71


    floggg wrote: »
    Even if he was never eligible for parole, would you see a benefit for society as a whole to keeping him alive against his will?

    If so, what.

    Yes to be honest I would in the respect that to the victims of rape who are the innocent party, it still looks like he is getting off lightly compared to them.


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    #79
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    chupacabra wrote: »
    Not even a joke tbh. Serial rapists deserve nothing less than the disgusting crimes they themselves have committed.

    if you believe their crimes are wrong, you won't inflict the same thing on them. you will only inflict such things on them if you condone their crimes

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #80
    harry Bailey esq
    Registered Users Posts: 4,814 ✭✭✭harry Bailey esq


    For a minute i thought it was our own 'cereal rapist' that was getting stiffed :pac:
    Seriously why should this c*nt be given the easy option out,and it is the easy way out.Its euthenasia, its not like he's gonna get his head smashed in with a rock and strangled, although due to the nature of his crimes that might be a suitable punishment in the eyes of some,myself included,seeing as he was fond of a bit of that himself.
    Let him rot,so what if the taxpayers foot the bill.The victims and their families are taxpayers too are they not?
    Leave him be in the cell to dwell on his deeds,and if he reaches his 90th birthday drag him out and put him to sleep then.Poor show Belgium.


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    #81
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    PLUG71 wrote: »
    Too many soft approaches to people like this rapist..

    only a matter of time before this nonsense got a mention. was waiting for it.
    PLUG71 wrote: »
    Why should anyone give a stuff to how this guy is suffering in jail?

    its called being a proper human being, who is above criminals and doesn't stoop to their level, unlike some here.
    PLUG71 wrote: »
    Is it of some peoples opinion that to keep him alive to to mistreat him?

    to keep him alive if he doesn't want to be is a form of miss treatment yes

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #82
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    PhilBill wrote: »
    I don't know if this can be generalized to Belgium
    I don't think so - capital cases cost a bloody bomb. Executions cost a bit too.

    This case would involve neither.


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    #83
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    PhilBill wrote: »
    From what I can tell from previous posts a lot of people are talking of how much would be saved in the case of killing the man.

    I don't know if this can be generalized to Belgium, but in America the death penalty costs a whole lot more than keeping the incarcerated until their death.

    http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

    If you read the article, you'd realise why those costs are incurred.

    If the state is going to sanction the death of a person, at the very least they should be as certain as possible of their guilt. In the absence of a guilty plea and an acceptance of the death penalty, that means lots of appeals, court cases, legal costs etc.

    Here, the person involved wants to die. The only cost in euthanising him is carrying out the procedure itself.


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    #84
    PLUG71
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭PLUG71


    end of the road wrote: »
    only a matter of time before this nonsense got a mention. was waiting for it.



    its called being a proper human being, who is above criminals and doesn't stoop to their level, unlike some here.



    to keep him alive if he doesn't want to be is a form of miss treatment yes

    So anybody that has a different opinion to you is talking nonsense?

    Also I am not stooping to a criminals level by being of the opinion that this guy is being let of lightly!

    How the hell is it wrong to make him live with his consequences?


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    #85
    harry Bailey esq
    Registered Users Posts: 4,814 ✭✭✭harry Bailey esq


    end of the road wrote: »

    to keep him alive if he doesn't want to be is a form of miss treatment yes

    Its called duty of care.Have you ever been in a typical cell?Every possible measure is taken to prevent 'people who don't want to be alive' from doing themselves in.


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    #86
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    allibastor wrote: »
    I am all for eye for an eye.

    if you condone an eye for an eye, your saying its okay to do more or less the same to the criminal that the criminal has done, meaning you sanction and condone such a crime

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #87
    PhilBill
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭PhilBill


    floggg wrote: »
    If you read the article, you'd realise why those costs are incurred.

    If the state is going to sanction the death of a person, at the very least they should be as certain as possible of their guilt. In the absence of a guilty plea and an acceptance of the death penalty, that means lots of appeals, court cases, legal costs etc.

    Here, the person involved wants to die. The only cost in euthanising him is carrying out the procedure itself.


    Sorry for recent post. I have just remembered that Belgian pharmacy's actually sell home euthanasia kit's.


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    #88
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    chupacabra wrote: »
    I just have a problem with the fact that he is dying on his own terms. He shouldnt be given the satisfaction of it, as odd as that sounds. For him its a way out of whatever mental anguish he is suffering. He didnt give his victims a choice and so he shouldnt have the choice either.
    well, the world doesn't and can't work like that

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #89
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    PLUG71 wrote: »
    Yes to be honest I would in the respect that to the victims of rape who are the innocent party, it still looks like he is getting off lightly compared to them.

    But what does it do for them exactly? Other than satisfy their desire to see another person suffer?

    That's not something I want done in my name or behalf as a citizen and taxpayer.

    And what does it do for society? How do we benefit as a whole by that?


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    #90
    PLUG71
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭PLUG71


    end of the road wrote: »
    if you condone an eye for an eye, your saying its okay to do more or less the same to the criminal that the criminal has done, meaning you sanction and condone such a crime

    Such pc bull****!


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    #91
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    PLUG71 wrote: »
    So the cost of keeping him for the last 30 years is ok?

    yes

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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