Britian's poorest going hungry: Are we heading the same way?

Nomis21

smcgiff wrote: »

Unless government totally take over the running of peoples lives there will be some that cannot take care of themselves.

How many of these people prioritise food over other expenditure, such as alcohol. That may not account for everybody, but I suspect a lot.

Should government intervene when more affluent eat enough to make themselves obese?

Obesity is not about affluence, it's about eating the right sort of food in the right amounts.

There is more obesity amongst poor people than there is amongst rich people.

smcgiff

garp wrote: »

individuals who were unemployed (19.2%)

So, more than 80% of people on social welfare can feed themselves properly. That implies it's not the amount of social welfare received that is the problem.

garp

smcgiff wrote: »

If this is a real case they'll need to look into that.

Depression.
Self loathing.
Bi-Polar disorder.
.
.
.
.
.

???
Who is they

smcgiff

steddyeddy wrote: »

Less income more outgoings. Often less income due to inequality of opportunity.

But did you say the percentage of those in food poverty had increased?

smcgiff

garp wrote: »

Depression.
Self loathing.
Bi-Polar disorder.
.
.
.
.
.

???

Okay, so what's the solution?

smcgiff

Nomis21 wrote: »

Obesity is not about affluence, it's about eating the right sort of food in the right amounts.

There is more obesity amongst poor people than there is amongst rich people.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you. I was trying to make the point that wealthy people can eat unhealthily. What's being done about that, where's the concern for these?

ireland.man

Beaner1 wrote: »

CSO.ie is a valid address.
I've publish many academic papers and I know how to reference.

It's true, I've discovered the statistical research institute where Beaner1 works. You'll see him here: www.google.com

smcgiff

garp wrote: »

Who is they

I dunno, hang on I'll go ask the nurse.

garp

smcgiff wrote: »

Okay, so what's the solution?

A solution I do not have but we could start by not putting everything that is not right in this country down to the dirty nare do wells Dole folk. Not all are there by choice and some of them do very well for their children.

Agree that the problem exists and then WE can work on how to fix it.

ireland.man

Here's a few research papers and newspaper articles which seem to suggest hunger exists in Ireland.

A national strategic response to food poverty among schoolchildren in Ireland: Preventing hunger in Irish schools.
“20.9% of schoolchildren in Ireland report going to school or bed hungry because there is not enough food at home.” http://www.spd.dcu.ie/site/edc/documents/NationalstrategyhungerinschoolNov2014FINAL.pdf

“More than 130,000 children slipped into poverty during the recession”
http://www.thejournal.ie/child-poverty-report-unicef-1749389-Oct2014/

"Many children arriving to school hungry, conference told"
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/many-children-arriving-to-school-hungry-conference-told-582303.html

HUNGRY FOR ACTION Mapping Food Poverty in Ireland
http://www.mandate.ie/Documents/104355_food_poverty_document4.pdf

smcgiff

garp wrote: »

Agree that the problem exists and then WE can work on how to fix it.

You'll first need to identify the reasons and then see IF there is a workable solution.

Karl Stein

Gyrocream wrote: »

Food is more affordable than any time in history.

Yet 1 in 8 people in the world are malnourished while people die of obesity related illnesses.

Saipanne

Let them eat cake.

Oh wait, that's all they ****ing eat.

suicide_circus

It wouldd imagine that ignorance, addiction and neglect would account for most of the food poverty in Ireland.

DebDynamite

garp wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but did they not change it so that you are not able to get "The Dole (BTEA)" and the "The Grant" at the same time and lets face it in this regard we/you are talking about adults/over 18's.
A lot of the food poverty in this country is in relation to children. I was very horrified when a teacher friend informed me that his school had started a "breakfast club" because children were arriving into school hungry, Mondays being the worst.
Poverty is never a choice.

That's not poverty...that's just bad parenting. It costs €1.39 for a 1.5kg bag of porridge from Aldi. That would give a child breakfast for a couple of weeks. There's no excuse for children to be going to school hungry.

garp

DebDynamite wrote: »

That's not poverty...that's just bad parenting. It costs €1.39 for a 1.5kg bag of porridge from Aldi. That would give a child breakfast for a couple of weeks. There's no excuse for children to be going to school hungry.

And yet the children still do.

suicide_circus

garp wrote: »

And yet the children still do.

Because their parents are negligent

RDM_83 again

Aineoil wrote: »

My husband and I budget well but it's the unknown things that catch us out. We use the one car to go to work- it's not convenient, but it's only one tax etc.

My car needed work. The car needed a new gear box 2 weeks before Christmas. That cost 900 euro.

So for us Christmas was conducted on a very low key level, even though we both work.


Thanks for agreeing with me.

I agree with the idea that the working poor or those in transient employment are a vulnerable group as they can't access the range of benefits available as easily but bad as your situation is your not sacrificing your diet, we aren't talking about general deprivation here we are talking about people who aren't able to eat properly.
In your previous post you talk about those emergency expenses, correct me if I am wrong but those are exactly the situation that the Community Welfare Officer comes into play.
My parents (who would be middle class probably) drive a car thats valued less than that gear box for example its not a good situation but Ireland does thankfully have a generous welfare system and in general reasonable wages, I wouldn't argue with the idea that in the UK this is happening purely for financial reasons but apart from some very particular circumstances or having different priorities (the students steveeddy mentions) I can't see how some one can go hungry in the ROI (poor unhealthy diet yes but malnutrition), these situations seem to arise out of people trying to maintain their previous standard of living in horribly different circumstances

garp wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but did they not change it so that you are not able to get "The Dole (BTEA)" and the "The Grant" at the same time and lets face it in this regard we/you are talking about adults/over 18's.

Yeah since maybe 2010 or you can't, however the BTEA is more than enough to live a good student lifestyle in anywhere other than central Dublin, my year on the BTEA was one of the most enjoyable in my life

garp wrote: »

A lot of the food poverty in this country is in relation to children. I was very horrified when a teacher friend informed me that his school had started a "breakfast club" because children were arriving into school hungry, Mondays being the worst.
Poverty is never a choice.

Poverty isn't a choice it will always be a bad situation but how poverty impacts ones offspring is.

garp

suicide_circus wrote: »

Because their parents are negligent

And yet the children still do.!

suicide_circus

garp wrote: »

And yet the children still do.!

?

SpaceTime

I'd actually say the main causes of food poverty in Ireland are:

1) Delays in processing social welfare claims and confusion. The system is pretty good, but it can take months for it to kick in which is why people can end up in crisis situations rather a lot.

2) There are a % of people who seem to be incapable of dealing with creditors either because they won't, or because until very recently there were very few legal options. The result of that is people prioritising paying down debts instead of putting food on the table.
You do not pay down debts if you are cutting into food for yourself and your family. There has to be a priority system and creditors need to form an orderly line in any situation like that and it comes behind essentials like food, shelter and basic heating.

3) Issues around addiction etc

4) people who just fall through the cracks entirely due to mental health issues or lack of ability to deal with the systems to get access to services - lack of cognitive ability, lack of reading/writing ability etc. can put someone in to serious difficultly here.

We have the services, but sometimes I think the access systems tend to benefit people who know how to 'work the system' and get through all the red tape most effectively rather than some people who are really very very vulnerable.

The British system has just become totally nasty since the Tories got back into power. They've really started to enter their classic punish the poor for being poor type mentality again.

garp

suicide_circus wrote: »

?

Yes. I know. I ask myself the same question.

RDM_83 again

garp wrote: »

And yet the children still do.!

We did (as a state not me personally!) the taking the "undeserving poor" into controlling institutions for most of the last century and the one previous, we now hold to the idea that people should manage their own and their childrens lives apart from the very most extreme circumstances. How do solve the issue of those that don't care?

PopePalpatine

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'd actually say the main causes of food poverty in Ireland are:

1) Delays in processing social welfare claims and confusion. The system is pretty good, but it can take months for it to kick in which is why people can end up in crisis situations rather a lot.

2) There are a % of people who seem to be incapable of dealing with creditors either because they won't, or because until very recently there were very few legal options. The result of that is people prioritising paying down debts instead of putting food on the table.
You do not pay down debts if you are cutting into food for yourself and your family. There has to be a priority system and creditors need to form an orderly line in any situation like that and it comes behind essentials like food, shelter and basic heating.

3) Issues around addiction etc

4) people who just fall through the cracks entirely due to mental health issues or lack of ability to deal with the systems to get access to services - lack of cognitive ability, lack of reading/writing ability etc. can put someone in to serious difficultly here.

We have the services, but sometimes I think the access systems tend to benefit people who know how to 'work the system' and get through all the red tape most effectively rather than some people who are really very very vulnerable.

The British system has just become totally nasty since the Tories got back into power. They've really started to enter their classic punish the poor for being poor type mentality again.

You may have forgotten a potential 5th factor: sudden expenses popping up.

Of course, your list still won't stop selfish self-described libertarians from their "kick the plebs" contest.

rainbowtrout

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Yeah since maybe 2010 or you can't, however the BTEA is more than enough to live a good student lifestyle in anywhere other than central Dublin, my year on the BTEA was one of the most enjoyable in my life



.

Yes but living as a student for one year on BTEA is no way comparable to a person living like this longterm. While a student may not have a lot of money, many have access to families for top ups in the form of food and/or money. I realise there are students who have to support themselves entirely, but it's not the case for a large number of students.

Also for a person who is trying to survive the general grind of daily life on very little money, they also have to take into account other expenses (school related for their kids), appliances/ car that needs to be repaired or replaced. Students generally don't have these expenses.

Salt001

The Tories hate the poor. If you are not middle class they do not want to know.

RDM_83 again

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yes but living as a student for one year on BTEA is no way comparable to a person living like this longterm. While a student may not have a lot of money, many have access to families for top ups in the form of food and/or money. I realise there are students who have to support themselves entirely, but it's not the case for a large number of students.

Also for a person who is trying to survive the general grind of daily life on very little money, they also have to take into account other expenses (school related for their kids), appliances/ car that needs to be repaired or replaced. Students generally don't have these expenses.

Aye I know that but I was referencing the particular people steveddy was talking about where though its gaming the system getting BTEA is a much better solution.
Don't get me wrong I think life can be damn hard for some people in Ireland but I think if people apart from some rare exceptions not being able to afford food is because something else "has to be" bought and the idea of sacrificing something as basic as food and even more so a childs food to avoid something severe like bankruptcy is utterly alien too me.

Salt001 wrote: »

The Tories hate the poor. If you are not middle class they do not want to know.

At least the Tories are honest about it, the Lib Dems just hide it under a nice veneer and some of the Labour party are just as bad

Billy86

If we burn one half of the poor at the stake to feed the other half, surely that should cure the problem no?

Beaner1

ireland.man wrote: »

Here's a few research papers and newspaper articles which seem to suggest hunger exists in Ireland.

A national strategic response to food poverty among schoolchildren in Ireland: Preventing hunger in Irish schools.
“20.9% of schoolchildren in Ireland report going to school or bed hungry because there is not enough food at home.” http://www.spd.dcu.ie/site/edc/documents/NationalstrategyhungerinschoolNov2014FINAL.pdf

“More than 130,000 children slipped into poverty during the recession”
http://www.thejournal.ie/child-poverty-report-unicef-1749389-Oct2014/

"Many children arriving to school hungry, conference told"
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/many-children-arriving-to-school-hungry-conference-told-582303.html

HUNGRY FOR ACTION Mapping Food Poverty in Ireland
http://www.mandate.ie/Documents/104355_food_poverty_document4.pdf

Lots of vested interested pushing the food poverty lie. The real statistics tell a different story. Food has not even doubled in price the past 30 years whilst incones have increased over five fold.

mikemac1

The Council in Kensington & Chelsea wanted to move some of their claimants on housing benefits. Something Limerick city have been known to do in the past

But it wasn't down the road, it was to Nottingham! It'd be like Dublin city council telling their tenants and those on their list, sorry nothing here now shift off to Waterford

Three Conservative London councils are considering moving at least 150 homeless families claiming housing benefit claimants 130 miles away to Derby and Nottingham, it has emerged. The proposal, being considered by Westminster council in conjunction with two other Tory councils, was revealed on the day it emerged that Labour-run Newham council was planning to move housing benefit claimants to Stoke-on-Trent.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/apr/24/tory-westminster-council-tenants-derby