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Britian's poorest going hungry: Are we heading the same way?

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    #572
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    It says on the form which schools teach through Irish.

    http://www.stmunchinscollege.com/CAS%20Application%20Form%202014-15.pdf


    It also says




    That leaves the system open to abuse.

    Also you'd have to be living under a rock if your kid had made it to sixth class in primary school in Limerick and not be aware of which schools taught through Irish.

    Just because it says it on the form doesn't mean the school should take the risk.
    As I said they already know where the kids come from. Plus as has been pointed out there is a large spread of attendance in the school. Lots of kids didn't get selected from the lottery system.


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    #573
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    I personally always thought of fee paying schools as a very Dublin/Leinster thing. Nearly all other secondary schools here are public entry and the excellent test scores and academic standards tend to be due to a fostering of education at home and in school. Some parents care more about their kids learning than others. Bottom line.

    Mainly Dublin based but there are a good few dotted around the country. Many of them are boarding and/or Protestant schools.

    Rockwell
    Wilson's Hospital School
    Glenstall Abbey
    Bandon Grammar



    Just had a look at the Rockwell site €12.5k per year for 7 day boarder :eek:


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    #574
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    It says on the form which schools teach through Irish.

    http://www.stmunchinscollege.com/CAS%20Application%20Form%202014-15.pdf


    It also says




    That leaves the system open to abuse.

    Also you'd have to be living under a rock if your kid had made it to sixth class in primary school in Limerick and not be aware of which schools taught through Irish.

    Re the school policy. Read it, it says things like expecting kids to work hard. What on that could be open to abuse? At the interview are parents going to say their little Jimmy is a scallywag and mitches off school?


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    #575
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Re the school policy. Read it, it says things like expecting kids to work hard. What on that could be open to abuse? At the interview are parents going to say their little Jimmy is a scallywag and mitches off school?

    Do you think there is a school in the country that doesn't have something about working hard in their policy?


    This admissions information is found in admissions policies all over the country

    inclusiveness, particularly with reference to enrolment of children with a disability or other Special
    Educational Needs.
    • Equality of access and participation in the school



    This is the way LH have it worded in their admissions policy:

    Inclusiveness. Students with special educational needs are welcome, provided the school can meet those needs adequately, subject to the limitations imposed by DES funding and resources.
    Equality of access to and participation in the school.
    Parental choice in relation to enrolment in the school.

    That is a massive get out clause to reject a whole range of applications.



    Priority is given to sisters of children who are or have been in the school.
    2. Priority is given to female children and near relatives of staff and to near relatives of FCJ sisters.
    3. Priority is given to female children of past pupils of Laurel Hill Coláiste FCJ.
    4. Remaining places are allocated randomly.

    What the hell are near relatives? Cousins? Second cousins? Many schools have a policy of accepting children of staff, it makes sense to have children travelling to school with their parents, but near relatives?




    Look, it's a good school, and I'm sure your daughter is happy there, and you're probably happy with the education she is getting there, but don't be blind to the fact that a few words on an admissions policy can make it hard/impossible for some kids to gain entry. It's also not the only school that is selective.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/barrister-urges-former-blackrock-college-students-to-fight-proposal-to-ban-priority-school-admission-for-family-members-of-pastpupils-30654244.html


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    #576
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Do you think there is a school in the country that doesn't have something about working hard in their policy?


    This admissions information is found in admissions policies all over the country





    This is the way LH have it worded in their admissions policy:



    That is a massive get out clause to reject a whole range of applications.






    What the hell are near relatives? Cousins? Second cousins? Many schools have a policy of accepting children of staff, it makes sense to have children travelling to school with their parents, but near relatives?




    Look, it's a good school, and I'm sure your daughter is happy there, and you're probably happy with the education she is getting there, but don't be blind to the fact that a few words on an admissions policy can make it hard/impossible for some kids to gain entry. It's also not the only school that is selective.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/barrister-urges-former-blackrock-college-students-to-fight-proposal-to-ban-priority-school-admission-for-family-members-of-pastpupils-30654244.html

    I don't remember seeing the near relative one before, and that would be equally discriminating as children of teachers.

    Re the kids with learning difficulties. They are up front on that. They'll take the number of kids that they are funded to support. Makes sense.


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    #577
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Just realised RT, my posts are getting very short and perfunctory. This is because I'm half asleep. No other reason. :)

    It's good to talk to a local.


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    #578
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Dan, don't sue me if you get repetitive strain injury from thanking all the posts that contain a counter view to my own.
    You have plenty of experience with RSI in the dominant hand obviously to be qualified to give out such advice.


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    #579
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Just had a look at the Rockwell site €12.5k per year for 7 day boarder :eek:
    That can't be right.
    If you lie and pretend the cheapest on in the country is the average it's only 3k...


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    #580
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    That can't be right.
    If you lie and pretend the cheapest on in the country is the average it's only 3k...

    We'll look it up yourself then. It's on their website.


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    #581
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    We'll look it up yourself then. It's on their website.
    No, I believe you.
    It was said earlier here that anybody could afford private schools as the fees were only around 3k. Turned out that was the lowest in the country were quoting... no deception there!


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    #582
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,750 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    No, I believe you.
    It was said earlier here that anybody could afford private schools as the fees were only around 3k. Turned out that was the lowest in the country were quoting... no deception there!

    If you go back to that post you will also notice its specifically references non boarding schools as costing 3k and states that obviously boarding schools like clongowes etc would charge more

    its here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93631745&postcount=493


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    #583
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    VinLieger wrote: »
    If you go back to that post you will also notice its specifically references non boarding schools as costing 3k and states that obviously boarding schools like clongowes etc would charge more

    its here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93631745&postcount=493
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/private-schools-pupil-numbers-and-day-fees-30592044.html
    Sligo and Bandon will take you for 3k. Nobody else. It was a lie that 3k is anything like the average day rate.


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    #584
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    No, I believe you.
    It was said earlier here that anybody could afford private schools as the fees were only around 3k. Turned out that was the lowest in the country were quoting... no deception there!

    Well you accused me of lying and I wasn't the one who came up with the 3k figure.


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    #585
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,750 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/private-schools-pupil-numbers-and-day-fees-30592044.html
    Sligo Grammar will take you for 3k. Nobody else. It was a lie that 3k is anything like the average day rate.

    Fair enough still think your main problem is you dislike the people you imagine go to these schools and their parents


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    #586
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/private-schools-pupil-numbers-and-day-fees-30592044.html
    Sligo and Bandon will take you for 3k. Nobody else. It was a lie that 3k is anything like the average day rate.

    Did you only read the first two lines of the article?

    I take your point that 3k is not the average, it's the minimum but you don't make your point well when you can't be arsed to read the whole thing. There are at least 6 or 7 schools on that list around the 3k mark. However most are around the 5k mark for day pupils.


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    #587
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Well you accused me of lying and I wasn't the one who came up with the 3k figure.
    Read again. I didn't.


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    #588
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Did you only read the first two lines of the article?

    I take your point that 3k is not the average, it's the minimum but you don't make your point well when you can't be arsed to read the whole thing. There are at least 6 or 7 schools on that list around the 3k mark. However most are around the 5k mark for day pupils.
    3k would get you into precisely one school on that list. Quoting it as the norm is lying.
    You have provided no evidence here I didn't read the link. Want another punt?


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    #589
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Fair enough still think your main problem is you dislike the people you imagine go to these schools and their parents
    I don't care what you think my opinion of x, y and z is. I've proven the facts here.
    What's with you right wingers demanding opinions as if they're more important than fact?


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    #590
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,750 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I don't care what you think my opinion of x, y and z is. I've proven the facts here.
    What's with you right wingers demanding opinions as if they're more important than fact?

    Youve proven the facts are private schools cost money, youve proven nothing as regards it being bad for society and are basing that on your dislike of the type of people you imagine attend them


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    #591
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Youve proven the facts are private schools cost money, youve proven nothing as regards it being bad for society and are basing that on your dislike of the type of people you imagine attend them
    In that case I'll make a likewise assumption that you hate poor people and are ecstatic that they don't have access to the same quality of education as the rich.
    Ass-u-me, eh?


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    #592
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,750 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    In that case I'll make a likewise assumption that you hate poor people and are ecstatic that they don't have access to the same quality of education as the rich.
    Ass-u-me, eh?

    I dont hate poor people, I do hate socialists who like blaming all of societies problems on the rich.


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    #593
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Mod: smcgiff and Dan_Solo, you were already warned to not continue bickering with each other. Don't post in this thread again.


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    #594
    Robroy36
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Robroy36


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Youve proven the facts are private schools cost money, youve proven nothing as regards it being bad for society and are basing that on your dislike of the type of people you imagine attend them

    Excellent post. Nail on the head.

    See you Danny boy!


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    #595
    harrymagina
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 126 ✭✭harrymagina


    Just seen a wan on Facebook with one young kid, a council house and never worked a day in her life saying she just booked holidays to gran canaria.

    People going hungry ha.


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    #596
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    harrymagina wrote: »
    Just seen a wan on Facebook with one young kid, a council house and never worked a day in her life saying she just booked holidays to gran canaria.

    People going hungry ha.

    Bit creepy to be friends with someone you're looking at and judging. That kind of sh*te makes me happy to be anti-FB.

    Although it sums up this thread fairly well... lots of miserable gits all spying and judging each other and trying to make sure everyone is as downtrodden as they feel.


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    #597
    estudent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭estudent


    VinLieger wrote: »
    I dont hate poor people, I do hate socialists who like blaming all of societies problems on the rich.

    I was poor, rich, then poor again.

    As a poor person, I dreamed of owning various objects I couldn't afford.
    Once I obtained these objects and it no longer mattered, I started to ask myself why it was even important to begin with.

    You enter this world with nothing and you leave with nothing.

    Some people can't accept this reality.


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    #598
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Youve proven the facts are private schools cost money, youve proven nothing as regards it being bad for society and are basing that on your dislike of the type of people you imagine attend them

    Of course an unearned educational advantage is bad for society. It's also bad for academia as the schools shelter the truly dim from being found out.


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    #599
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    VinLieger wrote: »
    I dont hate poor people, I do hate socialists who like blaming all of societies problems on the rich.

    Well buying your kids an unearned advantage over another kid who may be more intelligent is a genuine problem I'm afraid.


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    #600
    AlexisM
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭AlexisM


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Well buying your kids an unearned advantage over another kid who may be more intelligent is a genuine problem I'm afraid.
    Who is it a problem for? It's not really a big problem for society as a whole; it's not exactly dragging us back to the dark ages is it? It might (just might) be a problem for the 'other kid who is more intelligent' but it's so marginal, most kids who might be affected aren't really aware of their 'problem'. I'm not aware of any general rumblings of unfairness or case studies in the media of the downtrodden intelligent poor folk.

    It's not as if there's an Einstein being held back - super-super-bright kids interested in learning will usually find their way to a scholarship and/or make their own way. You're talking about middle of the road rich kids getting on better than slightly brighter less well off kids - not thick rich kids somehow triumphing over less well off Einsteins. So really - who cares? And why should society care? Most jobs can be done adequately well by a range of intelligences - you don't always need (or want...) the absolute most intelligent person for a job.

    So steddyeddy, apart from you and your passion for the topic, what is the 'genuine problem' you are referring to? Why should any of us care?


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    #601
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Of course an unearned educational advantage is bad for society. It's also bad for academia as the schools shelter the truly dim from being found out.
    I'm all for students having equal access to education.
    But some of your posts, especially the part highlighted above, border on intellectually snobbery.
    Well buying your kids an unearned advantage over another kid who may be more intelligent is a genuine problem I'm afraid.
    Public schools on average in this country perform better, so an advantage can't be bought.


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