Attitude in the bus lane

Pinch Flat

cdebru wrote: »

Doesn't surprise me standard of driving ability or road awareness amongst taxi drivers in general is shockingly bad, I had one myself today he was stopped picking up a fare so I went to go around him, as I'm alongside him he starts to drive off, I move to just in front of him still on his outside and he accelerates and under takes me on the inside, inches from me. Taxi drivers should have to do advanced driver training IMO

Being honest all road users could do with a lesson on cop on. I've seen stupidity daily well distributed amongst cyclists, drivers, taxis, delivery trucks, rickshaws - the list goes on. At the end of the day a boy of common courtesy goes a long way no matter what your mode of transport.

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

It's the left hand filter lane coming up from Patrick's cathedral turning left toward the Guinness brewery. I checked this out myself and it is indeed a green arrow. So perhaps not an amber arrow, I'm sure it was and there's another such junction past dublinia as you meet they quays.

So by deduction heres the sequence of events:

I'm at the front of the traffic, haven come from the direction of the Guinness brewery stopped at a red light and turning right going towards Patrick's church.

Traffic coming against me (cars, bikes etc) coming from jury's is going through the junction at a green light.

Taxi hits cyclist as he passes the filter lane - there's a car immediately behind the cyclist. It has to be green, because I'm familiar with the junction and the light equence- when the traffic lights coming from jury's direction go red, we are next. We don't get a green for perhaps another 10 seconds or so.

I'm not sure what the taxi driver did to get in that situation, but I'm pretty sure the cyclist wasn't breaking a red light.

So the only real conclusion then is that one or other of them passed a red, given the amount of complaints about cars jumping reds it's just as feasible that the cyclist and the following car were in the wrong.

Now given your statements

I'm at the front of the traffic, haven come from the direction of the Guinness brewery stopped at a red light and turning right going towards Patrick's church.

and

when the traffic lights coming from jury's direction go red, we are next.

Then the lights were on red for the cyclist

Anyways we'll leave it for the Garda to sort out I assume you put yourself forward as an eye witness

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

No, but I know if I'm stopped at a red, it's reasonable to assume the lights on the other side are green. Read my reply to spook above before diving in, eh

Actually, on an unknown junction I'd always assume that ( unless there's some indication ) that green from both directions/ red from both directions.

i.e
If I saw this traffic light


I'd assume that oncoming traffic had a green to

Whereas if I saw this green traffic light


I would assume that they had a red when the arrow was lit

Pinch Flat

Spook_ie wrote: »

So the only real conclusion then is that one or other of them passed a red, given the amount of complaints about cars jumping reds it's just as feasible that the cyclist and the following car were in the wrong.

Now given your statements


and


Then the lights were on red for the cyclist

Anyways we'll leave it for the Garda to sort out I assume you put yourself forward as an eye witness

Ah good old spook, twisting the truth and jumping to conclusions. Perish the thought a taxi man was in the wrong - those bastions of rules and manners on the road.

I was stopped at a red and the traffic coming the other way had a green. I was there - I am familiar with the junction, you weren't. Stop stirring it. And yes I offered myself as a witness - as did half a dozen other people. An expensive day for the taxi driver. And a cyclist is injured while legally using the road

Pinch Flat

Spook_ie wrote: »

Actually, on an unknown junction I'd always assume that ( unless there's some indication ) that green from both directions/ red from both directions.

i.e
If I saw this traffic light


I'd assume that oncoming traffic had a green to

Whereas if I saw this green traffic light


I would assume that they had a red when the arrow was lit

All well and good - but you should never assume what another light is indicating. You can only adhere to what's in front of you. Anyway you're adamant that Mr taxi man was somehiw exonerated given what I witnessed above.

Again, I was stopped at a red. The traffic coming against me had a green, the reason I am certain of this is that when the opposite traffic goes red, the way in which I'm travelling goes green. This morning there was a good 10 seconds between the taxi hitting the cyclist and my light going green - so unless someone changed the sequence overnight, the cyclist and the following car were proceeding on a green.

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah good old spook, twisting the truth and jumping to conclusions. Perish the thought a taxi man was in the wrong - those bastions of rules and manners on the road.

I was stopped at a red and the traffic coming the other way had a green. I was there - I am familiar with the junction, you weren't. Stop stirring it. And yes I offered myself as a witness - as did half a dozen other people. An expensive day for the taxi driver. And a cyclist is injured while legally using the road

Not twisting anything, just stating how your post reads, as I said someone was in the wrong and the Garda should be able to sort it

Danjamin1

Heres hoping the poor cyclist is ok

monument

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not twisting anything, just stating how your post reads, as I said someone was in the wrong and the Garda should be able to sort it

Given the description which Pinch Flat vs your complete lack of knowledge, we're going to leave it at that given that it is derailing the thread. In future it's also best that you don't get too carried away with derailing future threads when it's claimed that one single motorist has broken a red or amber light -- these things happen all the time.

-- Moderator

Snickers Man

cdebru wrote: »

Everyone that drives should be made to cycle at least one day a year. Until you cycle and see the state of cycle lanes , the ridiculous idea of having them up on the path so you have to stop at every junction, or traffic lights that you press the button and nothing happens for up to 5 minutes.

What's ridiculous about that? That's the way they do it in most European countries. Especially the ones with extensive cycle lanes, like Germany in particular.

Much safer for cyclists.

And so what if you have to "stop at every junction". Got a problem with that, get a jetpack.

Jawgap

Snickers Man wrote: »

What's ridiculous about that? That's the way they do it in most European countries. Especially the ones with extensive cycle lanes, like Germany in particular.

Much safer for cyclists.

And so what if you have to "stop at every junction". Got a problem with that, get a jetpack.

Or just cycle on the road.

Off road / segregated cycle paths in Ireland are not safe for cyclists - they tend to be badly constructed and not maintained to even a minimal level. For example the ones through Fairveiw and Drumcondra are characterised by uneven and broken surfaces and are lethal when the tree overhanging them drop their leaves, because they are never cleaned.

Then there's the joggers, pedestrians, dogwalkers etc.

rp

Snickers Man wrote: »

Especially the ones with extensive cycle lanes, like Germany in particular.

Much safer for cyclists.

Germany's cycle lanes are documented as being more dangerous than riding on the road, so much so that the Berlin police themselves are part of the campaign to have the mandatory use law revoked (see http://john-s-allen.com/research/berlin_1987/index.html). Research for most European countries comes to the same conclusion, even in the Netherlands - which led to an extensive redesign in the 1970s. In the UK (with similar driving conditions as here) it is estimated that cycle lanes increase risk of accidents for cyclists by c. 30%. Ride them at your own peril!

Pinch Flat

Snickers Man wrote: »

And so what if you have to "stop at every junction". Got a problem with that, get a jetpack.

As you cited Germany and assuming you have experience of cycling there, the cycle lanes where I lived (Karlsruhe) went across the slip roads of the "schnellstraßen" - dual carriageways. 100% of the time you could cycle across these, safe in the knowledge some numpty was going to run you over.

Here's an example of where I would have cycled through on a daily basis:

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/W%C3%B6rth+am+Rhein,+Germany/@49.0370409,8.3210841,298m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x4796ffb389ecdd41:0x422d4d510db5f30?hl=en

It's a different attitude as well as legal protection afforded to the cyclist that allows this to exist.

mmmcake

You are wasting your time arguing when a cyclist is involved , they are sacrosanct as far as some mods are concerned.
Cycling zealot mods who pretend to be impartial, it a shame anyone not drinking the cycling koolaid is infracted and then banned, no wonder longer term posters of this here forum are closing accounts or just giving up on the commuting & transport forum.

I will be banned now for pointing this out, a sad state of affairs.

Danjamin1

mmmcake wrote: »

You are wasting your time arguing when a cyclist is involved , they are sacrosanct as far as some mods are concerned.
Cycling zealot mods who pretend to be impartial, it a shame anyone not drinking the cycling koolaid is infracted and then banned, no wonder longer term posters of this here forum are closing accounts or just giving up on the commuting & transport forum.

I will be banned now for pointing this out, a sad state of affairs.

I'm no mod but I'd say it's got more to do with having a hostile attitude with no logic or reason to back it up apart from your unnecessary dislike of cyclists.

mmmcake

Danjamin1 wrote: »

I'm no mod but I'd say it's got more to do with having a hostile attitude with no logic or reason to back it up apart from your unnecessary dislike of cyclists.

Dont have a dislike of cyclists, my two eyes see some cyclist acting the dick on a regular basis, it seem you cant post that here.

cdebru

mmmcake wrote: »

Dont have a dislike of cyclists, my two eyes see some cyclist acting the dick on a regular basis, it seem you cant post that here.

Some, do you also see some pedestrians, some motorbikes, some car drivers, some bus drivers, some truck drivers or is you acting the dick observation skills limited to cyclists ?

Danjamin1

mmmcake wrote: »

Dont have a dislike of cyclists, my two eyes see some cyclist acting the dick on a regular basis, it seem you cant post that here.

You can post that here, but you seem to be including all cyclists in the same category, most cyclists on here wouldn't condone idiotic behaviour by people on the roads & the cyclists that act the idiot irritate other cyclists just as much as they irritate drivers. I'm just telling you how your posts are coming across because you seem to be of the opinion no cyclist should have a right to be on the road because some cyclists are incompetent.

cdebru

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Being honest all road users could do with a lesson on cop on. I've seen stupidity daily well distributed amongst cyclists, drivers, taxis, delivery trucks, rickshaws - the list goes on. At the end of the day a boy of common courtesy goes a long way no matter what your mode of transport.

Yes but the nature of taxis is they pull in and out a lot more than most other drivers apart from city bus drivers, so they interact with cyclists more than the average driver, skills they particularly need to brush up on are mirror checks before you pull in or pull out, also the hours they drive should be regulated people being out 18, 20 hours behind the wheel of a taxi is ridiculous, also those with a full time other job should be even more limited in the hours they can drive.

AlekSmart

Danjamin1 wrote: »

I'm no mod but I'd say it's got more to do with having a hostile attitude with no logic or reason to back it up apart from your unnecessary dislike of cyclists.

It's kinda a two-way street I suspect.

Cycling is usually a solitary means of transport,with the cyclist usually focused totally upon their progress,or percieved denial of such by other road-users.

I was struck by the wording of the OP's initial post in this regard....with almost no references to any other cyclists which may have been in the vicinity of these incidents....not actually there or not noticed perhaps ?

Following this there was the bus that blocked me actually moving up to the off road cycle lane outside Donnybrook church & then closely overtaking me outside RTE only to cut across me to pull in to a bus stop immediately. Next incident was with the same bus on the N11 leading down to the UCD flyover. With the rain yesterday the cycle lane (which is in terrible condition on a good day) was riddled with puddles covering any cracks or potholes so I opted for the Bus lane as the safer choice. The same driver pulled closely behind me honking his horn & then proceeded to pull in to the bus stop behind me. The rest of the cycle home passed without any other incident.

That's just one journey, this kind of behaviour is a frequent occurrence for cyclists.

I don't want anyone to think I was purposely antagonising any other road users here, I was trying to get home as safely as possible in poor conditions. I just don't see the point in having such a poor attitude towards another road user. I was doing nothing wrong, I had my lights on my bike & I was wearing a hi-viz jacket & a helmet. I wasn't crawling along either, I was doing easily 30km/h. I stick to the rules as well, never run red lights, always signal before I move out to a lane. My use of the bus lane was based solely on either not being able to get on to the cycle path or the cycle path being in a poor condition & it was only for as long as necessary.

This kind of attitude on the roads is a daily occurrence that I for one am sick of. It's incredibly inconsiderate & dangerous.

As many respondents,including Cyclists, have pointed out,the issue of available and safely usable or shareable roadspace is not easily solved,particularly in the light of a less than enlightened Transport and Traffic Planning infrastructure,however most Busdrivers attempt to drive from a "Road-Sharing Perspective" rather than one of "Ownership".

The Busdriver must,also plan and devise driving strategy to cater for the needs of the Bus Passenger,both on board and intending,therefore the constant requirement to plan ahead and respond to rapidly changing on-road situations may result in compromises.

Not desirable,not ideal,but I'm afraid thats the modern reality of shared roadspace in Dublin today.

Report away,by all means...use helmet cams,phones and whatever else is required,but do not abandon common-sense and situational awareness simply to make a point,which may well place one in even greater danger as a result.

A Road-Sharing Perspective,is often the most difficult one of all to use,when the prime focus is the Individual ?

mmmcake

cdebru wrote: »

Some, do you also see some pedestrians, some motorbikes, some car drivers, some bus drivers, some truck drivers or is you acting the dick observation skills limited to cyclists ?

All the time, and guess what? We can post about that here without fear of the mods infracting or banning the poster.
Post anything negative about cyclist, well you know what happens.

mmmcake

Danjamin1 wrote: »

You can post that here, but you seem to be including all cyclists in the same category, most cyclists on here wouldn't condone idiotic behaviour by people on the roads & the cyclists that act the idiot irritate other cyclists just as much as they irritate drivers. I'm just telling you how your posts are coming across because you seem to be of the opinion no cyclist should have a right to be on the road because some cyclists are incompetent.

You admitted you held up a bus, that s being a dick is it not?

Danjamin1

AlekSmart wrote: »

As many respondents,including Cyclists, have pointed out,the issue of available and safely usable or shareable roadspace is not easily solved,particularly in the light of a less than enlightened Transport and Traffic Planning infrastructure,however most Busdrivers attempt to drive from a "Road-Sharing Perspective" rather than one of "Ownership".

The Busdriver must,also plan and devise driving strategy to cater for the needs of the Bus Passenger,both on board and intending,therefore the constant requirement to plan ahead and respond to rapidly changing on-road situations may result in compromises.

Not desirable,not ideal,but I'm afraid thats the modern reality of shared roadspace in Dublin today.

Yep, I'm in full agreement with road sharing and using common sense when doing so, as I mentioned I'm courteous & don't try to antagonise anyone on the road & expect the same in return. The original post was from my personal perspective & experience so of course there was going to be a lot of self reference in it.

Seaswimmer

I have said it before earlier in this thread. But my advice to most cyclists would be to stay away from the N11. There are plenty of alternatives on either side of it. I live about 300m from it and its probably the shortest route into town for me but I would never consider using it as its just not worth the hassle for all the reasons outlined in this thread.

Danjamin1

mmmcake wrote: »

You admitted you held up a bus, that s being a dick is it not?

No, I was using the road, I'm part of the traffic, the bus has no priority over me because there are more people on it just like it would have no priority over a taxi in front of it.

Snickers Man

Jawgap wrote: »

Or just cycle on the road.

Off road / segregated cycle paths in Ireland are not safe for cyclists - they tend to be badly constructed and not maintained to even a minimal level. For example the ones through Fairveiw and Drumcondra are characterised by uneven and broken surfaces and are lethal when the tree overhanging them drop their leaves, because they are never cleaned.

Then there's the joggers, pedestrians, dogwalkers etc.

I am a cyclist/jogger/pedestrian/motorist same, I suspect, as most people.

I don't hate cyclists. I just hate bad ones. And a cyclist who cycles down Herbert Place/Warrington Place (eg) on the road when there is a perfectly adequate, well built, well maintained segregated cycle path running along it is a BAD CYCLIST being intrinsically discourteous and obstructive to other road users.

Also, if a car turning right over Huband Bridge ever kills a cyclist jumping the lights and I'm on the jury trying the dangerous driving charge, the driver's gonna walk.

Be warned!

Snickers Man

rp wrote: »

Germany's cycle lanes are documented as being more dangerous than riding on the road, so much so that the Berlin police themselves are part of the campaign to have the mandatory use law revoked (see http://john-s-allen.com/research/berlin_1987/index.html). !

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Jawgap

Snickers Man wrote: »

I am a cyclist/jogger/pedestrian/motorist same, I suspect, as most people.

I don't hate cyclists. I just hate bad ones. And a cyclist who cycles down Herbert Place/Warrington Place (eg) on the road when there is a perfectly adequate, well built, well maintained segregated cycle path running along it is a BAD CYCLIST being intrinsically discourteous and obstructive to other road users.

Also, if a car turning right over Huband Bridge ever kills a cyclist jumping the lights and I'm on the jury trying the dangerous driving charge, the driver's gonna walk.

Be warned!

Is he/she being any more discourteous than the person who drives to work when there is a perfectly good bus service available? What about the people who drive their precious offspring to the school that's within comfortable walking distance?

My point is, the cyclist was opting to use a piece of road infrastructure that's available to them - yes, they don't have to use the road, but they don't have to use the cycle path either. They made a choice, and that's not being discourteous just because it happens to inconvenience another road user, that's just the everyday experience of using the roads.

Seaswimmer

Snickers Man wrote: »

I am a cyclist/jogger/pedestrian/motorist same, I suspect, as most people.

I don't hate cyclists. I just hate bad ones. And a cyclist who cycles down Herbert Place/Warrington Place (eg) on the road when there is a perfectly adequate, well built, well maintained segregated cycle path running along it is a BAD CYCLIST being intrinsically discourteous and obstructive to other road users.

Also, if a car turning right over Huband Bridge ever kills a cyclist jumping the lights and I'm on the jury trying the dangerous driving charge, the driver's gonna walk.

Be warned!

surely he could get a bike instead..;)

Pinch Flat

AlekSmart wrote: »

Cycling is usually a solitary means of transport,with the cyclist usually focused totally upon their progress,or percieved denial of such by other road-users.

But isn't a motor car as well - the most common use for commuting into Dublin anyway is the single occupant private car - a very inefficient way of using roads for relatively short commutes that could be cycled, walked or taken by public transport.

I can get people's frustrations where holding up a bus by a cyclist is perceived to be obstructive - sometimes it's for other reasons though, for example to cycle defensively when changing direction, or preventing a pinch point at a junction where the cyclist can be compromised.

Seaswimmer

Snickers Man wrote: »

I am a cyclist/jogger/pedestrian/motorist same, I suspect, as most people.

I don't hate cyclists. I just hate bad ones. And a cyclist who cycles down Herbert Place/Warrington Place (eg) on the road when there is a perfectly adequate, well built, well maintained segregated cycle path running along it is a BAD CYCLIST being intrinsically discourteous and obstructive to other road users.

Also, if a car turning right over Huband Bridge ever kills a cyclist jumping the lights and I'm on the jury trying the dangerous driving charge, the driver's gonna walk.

Be warned!

just for arguments sake if I want to turn left into Mount St Upper or Powers Court how would you suggest I do it by using the cycle lane only..