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rich people richer poor people poorer

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13

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    #62
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Dispute what?

    Thats its almost impossible for people in poverty to accumulate wealth

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #63
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Thats its almost impossible for people in poverty to accumulate wealth

    That's why they call it poverty, no disputing that.


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    #64
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Dispute what?
    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Thats its almost impossible for people in poverty to accumulate wealth
    smcgiff wrote: »
    That's why they call it poverty, no disputing that.
    Moderator fight :eek: :D :P


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    #65
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Mesrine65 wrote: »
    Moderator fight :eek: :D :P

    What a sheltered life you lead, if you think that's a fight. :P

    You should see what goes on in the mod only forums. Meoooow!


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    #66
    pharmaton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭pharmaton


    I was just offered a job in Canada :) (on double the rate of the same job offered here)


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    #67
    somuj
    Registered Users Posts: 867 ✭✭✭somuj


    smcgiff wrote: »
    What a sheltered life you lead, if you think that's a fight. :P

    You should see what goes on in the mod only forums. Meoooow!


    Post a few extreme examples


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    #68
    looking_around
    Registered Users Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    Tatra wrote: »
    You're assuming it is impossible for those people to create jobs for themselves.

    lol
    so 199 people can just create jobs from thin air, can they?


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    #69
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    looking_around wrote: »
    lol
    so 199 people can just create jobs from thin air, can they?

    Can I ask what jobs have been applied for that attracted 200 applicants?

    Also, how does one know 200 applicants applied for a job?


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    #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    pharmaton wrote: »
    I was just offered a job in Canada :) (on double the rate of the same job offered here)

    How does the cost of living compare? Rents, groceries, electric, etc. I've heard that, although there's good money to be made, you'd need it just to get by!


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    #71
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,346 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Thats its almost impossible for people in poverty to accumulate wealth

    Maybe not wealth but they can make things more comfortable.

    I was born into a poor backround, never had a well paid job but I was smart with what money I was making and saved while others didn't.


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    #72
    Areyouwell
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Areyouwell


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So what are poorer people doing to make themselves richer?

    You're either having a laugh, or you really don't have a clue about what you're talking about.


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    #73
    Stealthfins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Stealthfins


    Didn't our great overlord say that the least extra anyone will have after the budget will be an extra tenner in their weekly wage.

    Spitting image wouldn't get a look in lol


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    #74
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    HardenendMan wrote: »
    Can we not congratulate the one person who stood out from the crowd? The other 199 should strive to get to their level no?

    Maybe there was pull with that person who got the job. Maybe nepotism.


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    #75
    pharmaton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭pharmaton


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    How does the cost of living compare? Rents, groceries, electric, etc. I've heard that, although there's good money to be made, you'd need it just to get by!

    Doing much the same here tbh, but as far as I can make out there is greater potential to live a better quality of life, at least for me personally.


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    #76
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    Shock horror, working as opposed to staying on the dole actually improves your chances of having a better income.


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    #77
    NotASheeple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭NotASheeple


    Areyouwell wrote: »
    RobertKK wrote: »
    So what are poorer people doing to make themselves richer?

    You're either having a laugh, or you really don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

    I'm guessing it's a bit of both.


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    #78
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    We haven't had full employment for 7 years, and we're not likely to for probably another decade - if not longer. All these people can't just magic themselves back into employment.


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    #79
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    We haven't had full employment for 7 years, and we're not likely to for probably another decade - if not longer. All these people can't just magic themselves back into employment.

    You go into any service station in Dublin and you'll struggle to find a non national working there behind the till. There are plenty of jobs in this country but a lot of people simply don't want to work.

    We never had "full employment" in this country, at the height of the boom we still had a rate of approximately 5% unemployment. The rate of unemployment at the moment is just above 10%.

    Whatever about our EU obligations to accommodate the mobility of labour within the EU, under no circumstances should we be giving non nationals from outside the EU, the right to work here casually, for as long as our unemployment rate is over 2%.

    And before people start ranting and raving at me calling me a racist, look at countries like Canada and Australia, huge economies that are a lot less open and exposed than ours and that have pretty much full employment, there is not a hope on earth that you can just saunter into these countries from a less well off place and take up casual low paid work there, they just don't tolerate it. Look at any episode of the Australian border control TV show and see how the folks in border control in Australia operate in the airport, there is a zero toleration policy of people landing into the country looking for casual work, and they don't even have an unemployment problem in Australia. If they suspect you are coming to work, they'll bring you in for an interrogation and if you can't prove that you are not coming to work casually, or if they find CV's or employment references in your luggage, they'll automatically stick you on the next plane back to where you came from, not before they stamp your passport to say you were deported!

    A country that lets people people in it's own country stay on the dole indefinitely, while allowing others from outside the EU come here to fulfill casual jobs that Irish people in the large just do not want to do, that is the definition of absolute and total stupidity to my mind.


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    #80
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »
    Maybe there was pull with that person who got the job. Maybe nepotism.

    Maybe they took naked photographs of the interviewer making out with a kangaroo and blackmailed them to get the job.


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    #81
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    You go into any service station in Dublin and you'll struggle to find a non national working there behind the till. There are plenty of jobs in this country but a lot of people simply don't want to work.
    That's just plain ignorance - where are these hundreds of thousands of job positions, needed for employing all of the 'lazy' unemployed?
    Thinking that all of the unemployed are just lazy, is itself the height of extreme intellectual laziness.

    We had full employment between 4-5% up to the start of the crisis.

    I'm not even going to go in to the immigration issue - unless you want to exit the EU, you must accept immigration.


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    #82
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    That's just plain ignorance - where are these hundreds of thousands of job positions, needed for employing all of the 'lazy' unemployed?
    Thinking that all of the unemployed are just lazy, is itself the height of extreme intellectual laziness.

    We had full employment between 4-5% up to the start of the crisis.

    I'm not even going to go in to the immigration issue - unless you want to exit the EU, you must accept immigration.

    It is far from plain ignorance. Are the governments of Australia and Canada plain ignorant too because they tightly manage immigration, when they don't even have an unemployment problem???

    Am I imagining that every service station I've been in in Dublin has non EU nationals working there? We are under no obligation whatsoever to accept immigration from non EU countries, we choose to do so and I don't understand why we chose to do this when we have national unemployment of over 10%, it is downright silly.

    By the way, 4-5% unemployment is not 'full employment', or anywhere close to it, full employment is 0% unemployment. My point being that even when there was no shortage of work here in this country, we had 5% of the workforce who just didn't want to work.


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    #83
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    That's just plain ignorance - where are these hundreds of thousands of job positions, needed for employing all of the 'lazy' unemployed?
    Thinking that all of the unemployed are just lazy, is itself the height of extreme intellectual laziness.

    We had full employment between 4-5% up to the start of the crisis.

    I'm not even going to go in to the immigration issue - unless you want to exit the EU, you must accept immigration.

    I never said all the unemployed were lazy. The point I was making is that there are tens of thousands of casual, albeit low paid jobs, in this country that Irish people just don't want to do. As a nation, we accept that a just the way that things are, and we allow others to come here, from countries where we are under no obligation to allow folks from those to come here to work casually, as they are not from an EU member country, and we give these folks the jobs that many people here don't want to do, as they think the job is beneath them. That in my view is stupid and I make no apologies for saying it.

    There has always been a view in this country that stricter border controls and stricter immigration controls equates with some sort of racism and I don't accept that whatsoever. Nobody ever calls the Australian government or the Canadian government racist when they operate strict border controls when it comes to immigration.


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    #84
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    It is far from plain ignorance. Are the governments of Australia and Canada plain ignorant too because they tightly manage immigration, when they don't even have an unemployment problem???

    Am I imagining that every service station I've been in in Dublin has non EU nationals working there? We are under no obligation whatsoever to accept immigration from non EU countries, we choose to do so and I don't understand why we chose to do this when we have national unemployment of over 10%, it is downright silly.

    By the way, 4-5% unemployment is not 'full employment', or anywhere close to it, full employment is 0% unemployment. My point being that even when there was no shortage of work here in this country, we had 5% of the workforce who just didn't want to work.
    Ok look, I'm not going to debate creditless/ignorant views, where you want to pin the blame for high unemployment, on immigration.

    You would be hard pressed to find a reputable economist that puts 'full employment' at 0%.

    My original statement stands:
    We haven't had full employment for 7 years, and we're not likely to for probably another decade - if not longer. All these people can't just magic themselves back into employment.


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    #85
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Ok look, I'm not going to debate creditless/ignorant views, where you want to pin the blame for high unemployment, on immigration.

    You would be hard pressed to find a reputable economist that puts 'full employment' at 0%.

    So countries that manage immigration a lot better than we do, that actually protect their economies and their jobs a lot better than we do, countries that understand that you cannot have a free for all when it comes to jobs and inward migration, countries like Canada and Australia, can you explain how they also hold creditless/ignorant views, as you appear to believe???


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    #86
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    So countries that manage immigration a lot better than we do, that actually protect their economies and their jobs a lot better than we do, countries that understand that you cannot have a free for all when it comes to jobs and inward migration, countries like Canada and Australia, can you explain how they also hold creditless/ignorant views, as you appear to believe???
    We're talking about unemployment in Ireland, not Canada/Australia or anti-immigration in general, and it's simply not credible to suggest that immigration is the reason we are so far from full employment - it's so ridiculous, that it's not even worth debating.


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    #87
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    We're talking about unemployment in Ireland, not Canada/Austrialia or anti-immigration in genreal, and it's simply not credible to suggest that immigration is the reason we are so far from full employment - it's so ridiculous, that it's not even worth debating.

    So how do you explain so many people working here doing casual jobs, who are from non EU countries, when we have an unemployment rate stuck at over 10%?


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    #88
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    So how do you explain so many people working here doing casual jobs, who are from non EU countries, when we have an unemployment rate stuck at over 10%?
    You haven't even established your weak anecdote as fact, or attempted to provide stats showing the number of newly-immigrated (since the crisis) non-EU-nationals in employment, so there's nothing to debate/address.


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    #89
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    We're talking about unemployment in Ireland, not Canada/Australia or anti-immigration in general, and it's simply not credible to suggest that immigration is the reason we are so far from full employment - it's so ridiculous, that it's not even worth debating.

    The same conversation is going on over in the UK right now, immigration is sadly something that we have been sweeping under the carpet for the last 15 years, forget about how I feel on the subject, the UK Prime Minister David Cameron is actively telling the EU that it will have to accommodate tighter immigration controls in respect of Britain if it wants Britain to remain in the EU. Nobody is calling him stupid for telling the EU that immigration needs to go back onto the table and a national discussion needs to take place with regard to immigration.


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    #90
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    You haven't even established your weak anecdote as fact, or attempted to provide stats showing the number of newly-immigrated (since the crisis) non-EU-nationals in employment, so there's nothing to debate/address.

    Of course it is a fact, go into any service station or convenience store in Dublin, I can practically guarantee you that the person who will serve you will be a non EU national. Added up, these are tens of thousands of jobs that Irish unemployed people can and should be doing. But because these jobs are being filled casually by people from outside the EU, it appears as if there is a serious shortage of jobs in this country when there actually isn't, the point being many of the jobs that are here, are filled by people who we are under absolutely no legal obligation whatsoever to offer work to, as they are not from an EU country.


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    #91
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    Of course it is a fact, go into any service station or convenience store in Dublin, I can practically guarantee you that the person who will serve you will be a non EU national. Added up, these are tens of thousands of jobs that Irish unemployed people can and should be doing. But because these jobs are being filled casually by people from outside the EU, it appears as if there is a serious shortage of jobs in this country when there actually isn't, the point being many of the jobs that are here, are filled by people who we are under absolutely no legal obligation whatsoever to offer work to, as they are not from an EU country.
    That is simply ridiculous - provide some facts to back that bolded part, not 'service station' anecdotes. I'm just going to ignore future posts absent that.


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