Does the Gay lobby have a monopoly on discrimination?

One eyed Jack

Wez wrote: »

Please excuse my language (I didn't intend for it to be taken as aggressive), but you understand the rough point I'm trying to make. You say you're not flamboyant (and that it's "stupid" to think so), yet I've never seen someone in a wheelchair dressed like those lads when trying to get their point across.

BTW: I literally Googled "dublin LBGT" and that was the first image, followed by plenty more.

Here you go Wez -

(and I didn't have to Google either, I remember Links posted the video about.... Jesus, can't be four years is it? I guess time flies when you're having fun )

DeVore

padd b1975 wrote: »

No they don't have a monopoly, but some are far too quick to play the discrimination card when all they've encountered is basic personal dislike.

Basic personal dislike, acted out upon an individual solely for the reason that they are part of a demographic is literally the definition of discrimination.

Links234

DeadHand wrote: »

There are cretins on both sides here, there are those of the perpetually outraged within the LGBT community with a massive appetite for victimhood just as there as those without who hate that community simply for the crime of being who they are.

Oh please, LGBT people who are outraged are just as bad as those who hate us? We get a lot of ****, so pardon us because some LGBT people aren't calm, collected and articulated all of the time, and may act outraged, hurt or slighted by some of the **** thrown their way. I'll get onto gay HQ and let them know about this grave injustice, LGBT can't be getting all uppity and showing emotion or things like that, why that makes them just as bad as all the anti-LGBT hatemongers out there.

Wez

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

If you want a genuine discussion fair enough. I didnt get a sense that you actually did with the dismissiveness of images and "feminazi" terminology. Even now you are continuing that dismissiveness in a passive agressive way by deciding that your friends can answer instead.

I have no idea why you are going on about your posts being reported.

You are getting that "sense" from a single post I made in this thread, not the multiple times I responded.

My point about feminazi-ism was, they got that title by not explaining their argument properly, just snapping out at people and calling them stupid. When someone made a point in this thread, the response was simply "So much stupid in one sentence". Perhaps they should have explained why they felt it was a stupid point, instead of just offending an outsider for his curiosity.

I feel it's quite relevant, I can't contribute fairly, since my posts are being reported (why, I don't know). I have taken offence at what was said to me, but I don't go reporting posts because I don't agree with an opinion. Perhaps this is part of the over-protection of LBGT, whereas there are no risks when the offence is reversed.

jezzer

seamus wrote: »

How many travelers, minority race members or disabled people have made a real difference to people's lives this year? And rather than complaining about "teh gheys", why aren't you annoyed that these other people didn't win?

Panti didn't get it for a single speech. He got it because of the work he's done this year raising the profile of the gay community and attacking those individuals and institutions who have abused their positions to spread homophobia.

Joanne O'Riordan won the same award two years ago. So it would be a fallacy to think that one minority group have a monopoly on everything, regardless of your own personal prejudice in this regard.

I'm not sure anybody is spreading homophobia? its almost illegal now to do so anyway, i will call a spade a spade here, what have travellers ever done to help anyone? only break up everywhere they enter.

I thought some of those people of the year awards were a farce such as giving one to the garda whistleblowers, what did that ever do for anyone??

lazygal

jezzer wrote: »

I thought some of those people of the year awards were a farce such as giving one to the garda whistleblowers, what did that ever do for anyone??

I think it blew apart the perception that the Garda operates as a fair, just and impartial force when it comes to many matters, but most especially road traffic offences. Considering the number of deaths on the roads in Ireland Garda whistleblowers have done a good day's work. Of course the usual cry of snitch and rat will come from the usual quarters.

AnonoBoy

jezzer wrote: »

I'm not sure anybody is spreading homophobia? its almost illegal now to do so anyway, i will call a spade a spade here, what have travellers ever done to help anyone? only break up everywhere they enter.

What you say is "calling a spade a spade" I would call a generalisation.

jezzer

AnonoBoy wrote: »

What you say is "calling a spade a spade" I would call a generalisation.

Put it this way, have you ever heard of or know a story where the travellers have helped out others?

AnonoBoy

Wez wrote: »

I feel it's quite relevant, I can't contribute fairly, since my posts are being reported (why, I don't know).

Now who has a persecution complex? :pac:

AnonoBoy

jezzer wrote: »

Put it this way, have you ever heard of or know a story where the travellers have helped out others?

Yes I have.

Couple traveller lads helped my nan out loads. An old woman living on her own - they'd do odd jobs around the place for her and wouldn't ask for anything in exchange. Decent skins.

Wez

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Now who has a persecution complex? :pac:

Not a persecution complex (thanks for the sly dig there), it is a fact that my account now has a warning because people reported my posts.

I would actually say it's yourself that is suffering a persecution delusion.

jezzer

lazygal wrote: »

I think it blew apart the perception that the Garda operates as a fair, just and impartial force when it comes to many matters, but most especially road traffic offences. Considering the number of deaths on the roads in Ireland Garda whistleblowers have done a good day's work. Of course the usual cry of snitch and rat will come from the usual quarters.

I would completely disagree, garda speed traps and checks have no relevance to road deaths, they just hide behind this fact and use it as a money generating exercise. What they have done is taken away any bit of discretion a garda could use as it now could be seen as impartial.
A number of judges have come out recently and thrown out cases of speeding offences relating to the outsourced speed vans which are used to fleece motorists, none of these vans are ever in black spots.
Look at the recent farce whereby if someone is awaiting an NCT examination of their vehicle, through no fault of their own, can now be fined and given 3 penalty points, its a disgrace, i'm sorry but the cold hard fact is that this is a money getting exercise and is doing nothing to reduce the road death numbers.

AnonoBoy

Wez wrote: »

Not a persecution complex (thanks for the sly dig there), it is a fact that my account now has a warning because people reported my posts.

You can't be sure though - the mods might just be warning you because they read your posts!

I would actually say it's yourself that is suffering a persecution delusion.

Straight white guy like me? Ain't nobody persecuting me bub!

floggg

Wez wrote: »

Oh I'm sorry, you're dead right.

They know nothing about flamboyance.. They're just your regular blokes.

Those one line answers don't help people to understand your perspective, it's like the feminazi Tumblr responses. Explaining why you don't believe LBGT are more flamboyant than disabled people or travellers, would help the conversation to progress.

All you're doing is driving a wedge between people looking to know more, and those that are "victims of this curse" (as ye seem to suggest it is, since it's not a choice).

Do you really need me to explain to you why believing and relying on stereotypes is stupid?

And why not everybody within a group will fit within the stereotype of that group?

Also, there is little point trying to constructively engage with the OP here since he is blatantly using this thread to pursue an agenda rather than attempting any constructive dialogue on increasing representation of other minority groups.

You will note in that regard his refusal to engage in any discussion of that note, and even his disappointment that we raised that point rather than just joining in on his complaints about those Damn gags asking for equality.



Finally, who said anything about being a victim or a curse?

jezzer

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Yes I have.

Couple traveller lads helped my nan out loads. An old woman living on her own - they'd do odd jobs around the place for her and wouldn't ask for anything in exchange. Decent skins.

well that is good to hear, i know they are not all the same but a large element do the rest no favours

Wez

floggg wrote: »

Do you really need me to explain to you why believing and relying on stereotypes is stupid?

And why not everybody within a group will fit within the stereotype of that group?

Also, there is little point trying to constructively engage with the OP here since he is blatantly using this thread to pursue an agenda rather than attempting any constructive dialogue on increasing representation of other minority groups.

You will note in that regard his refusal to engage in any discussion of that note, and even his disappointment that we raised that point rather than just joining in on his complaints about those Damn gags asking for equality.



Finally, who said anything about being a victim or a curse?

The denial of flamboyance suggested ignorance, I just wanted to clarify where people might get the idea.

Never said they all fit into a certain stereotype, but there are characteristics that part of the group are flamboyant.

You say it's not a choice, "woe is me" etc.. What politically correct term should I use instead? I was being sarcastic talking about being a victim/cursed BTW..

When I referred to choice before, I meant the choice of marrying your SO. Not the choice of being dealt the hand of being that way inclined.

lazygal

Wez wrote: »

The denial of flamboyance suggested ignorance, I just wanted to clarify where people might get the idea.

Never said they all fit into a certain stereotype, but there are characteristics that part of the group are flamboyant.

You say it's not a choice, "woe is me" etc.. What politically correct term should I use instead? I was being sarcastic talking about being a victim/cursed BTW..

What's wrong with being flamboyant?

Grand Moff Tarkin

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Yes I have.

Couple traveller lads helped my nan out loads. An old woman living on her own - they'd do odd jobs around the place for her and wouldn't ask for anything in exchange. Decent skins.

We have a older traveller gent who drinks in our local and I mean it when I say he is a gent always willing to help out and as nice as a person could be.

Good and bad in every walk of life we all just need to stop and think about it for a few seconds.

Wez

lazygal wrote: »

What's wrong with being flamboyant?

Absolutely nothing! It was mentioned that perhaps that's part of why LGBT campaigning is so successful, but when it was denied that they are flamboyant (sorry, wasn't even denied, they were just called stupid) I felt perhaps they would like to know where people get that idea.

jezzer

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

We have a older traveller gent who drinks in our local and I mean it when I say he is a gent always willing to help out and as nice as a person could be.

Good and bad in every walk of life we all just need to stop and think about it for a few seconds.

A lot of the older travellers are more respectful than the younger ones who post on youtube calling each other out

Slot Machine

Wez wrote: »

Not a persecution complex (thanks for the sly dig there), it is a fact that my account now has a warning because people reported my posts.

Because you brought up a mod action on the thread, which is against the site rules. Doesn't matter what the subject matter is or where you do it, if you bring it up mod actions in a thread you'll be carded because it derails the topic.

Wez

Slot Machine wrote: »

Because you brought up a mod action on the thread, which is against the site rules. Doesn't matter what the subject matter is or where you do it, if you bring it up mod actions in a thread you'll be carded because it derails the topic.

Ah, okay. Gotcha!

To be clear, I was responding to those still asking me questions relating to a topic we were told not to discuss when it happened.

floggg

jezzer wrote: »

I would completely disagree, garda speed traps and checks have no relevance to road deaths.

Really?

Are you saying that speeding doesn't cause Road deaths or that speed traps and cameras don't reduce speeding?

I know the former is definitely BS, and would be very surprised if the latter wasn't as well.

jezzer

floggg wrote: »

Really?

Are you saying that speeding doesn't cause Road deaths or that speed traps and cameras don't reduce speeding?

I know the former is definitely BS, and would be very surprised if the latter wasn't as well.

What i am saying is that speed traps and cameras do not reduce speeding in places where accidents occur and you cannot argue with that, look at where they are positioned on straight parts of the road no where near black sport, of course speeding causes road deaths, dont be stupid

floggg

jezzer wrote: »

What i am saying is that speed traps and cameras do not reduce speeding in places where accidents occur and you cannot argue with that, look at where they are positioned on straight parts of the road no where near black sport, of course speeding causes road deaths, dont be stupid

Should we stick them on bends?

Even if they don't directly target the black spots, I think they definitely have an effect. If all they do is force people to be more conscious of their speed at times, that has a huge impact by creating a culture of awareness on the issue.

And sure what harm are they. If you aren't speeding, they don't cost you a thing.

If you are spending and get caught, then I am delighted for you and hopefully with enough tickets or plenty points you'll either change your was or be put off the road.

GLaDOS

Speed trap discussion is not relevant to the topic folks, keep discussion to the topic at hand

gormdubhgorm

cloudatlas wrote: »

It pisses me off that you are playing other minority groups off each other that's not the point and it's a reductive argument, instead of asking why panti and not others you should be asking why give panti an award at all and look into some of the history and background that has lead to us having a referendum. It's not just shouting abuse at someone at traffic lights it's far more insidious and ingrained in society than that in the work place, schools, in the street, in the media. I get bored of the lazy 'why do they have to go on about being gay so much' well then change the channel, turn the page but the fact is that straight life is so ingrained and accepted that you don't bat an eye lid when that is mentioned in any shape or form. That speech was very powerful and got 675,097 views on youtube so clearly some people are interested and some people do want things to change and that should be praised.

If you know of anyone in any other community that you thinks deserved the award then I would invite you to name them on this thread.

"straight life is so ingrained and accepted that you don't bat an eye lid when that is mentioned" People do bat an eyelid when it comes to the other minority groups that I mentioned.

I am not against the fact that a gay person got an award. What I am amazed at is that he seemed to get it mainly because of an impassioned speech. The speech was mainly about a person who got abuse because they are different to others. It does not seem like much of a reason to get an award to me.

Yet, as you pointed out this speech got 675,097 views on you tube and resulted in this award. It seemed like a very ordinary albeit passionate speech in my opinion. But yet it managed to get lots of attention.

I just feel that other groups could learn from this approach as the gay community seem to be very good at self promotion and advocacy issues and other minority groups are not as good at it at all.

Daith

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The speech was mainly about a person who got abuse because they are different to others. It does not seem like much of a reason to get an award to me.

You might think differently if you've ever held your partners hand in the middle of Dublin and are called a fag or bum boys.

Do you meekly accept their abuse and carry on as if nothing happened?

gormdubhgorm

Daith wrote: »

You might think differently if you've ever held your partners hand in the middle of Dublin and are called a fag or bum boys.

Do you meekly accept their abuse and carry on as if nothing happened?

That depends on the individual whether a gay person, a traveller, disabled person or a person of an ethnic minority got abuse they also could react in a number of ways. Depending upon their personality and the situation.

But it is hardly a thing that deserves an award? It happens to people who are different to others all the time. The phrase "Do you want a medal for it?" comes to mind.

If it was a particular achievement or someone who broke new boundaries for those within their particular group that would be different.

In the incident that panti bliss mentioned he was in plain clothes as Rory standing at a traffic light and got abused it sounds like nothing out of the ordinary other minority groups would receive.

The reason I started the thread was I was shocked at the amount of attention this received. Then this had me thinking about how the other minority groups do not receive the same amount of mainstream attention and what were the reasons?

Daith

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But it is hardly a thing that deserves an award? It happens to people who are different to others all the time. The phrase "Do you want a medal for it?" comes to mind.

So just because it happens to other people all the time you should roll over and accept it? If a disabled person got a person of the year award would you be complaining?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The reason I started the thread was I was shocked at the amount of attention this received. Then this had me thinking about how the other minority groups do not receive the same amount of mainstream attention and what were the reasons?

There were other factors like the Iona Institute suing and RTE paying €85,000 to various people.

The real reason is that Rory O'Neill is an intelligent person and was able to turn being sued from six different people into something else and he took advantage of it.