Luas Red Line - not suitable for children

AlekSmart

Deleted User wrote: »

Does that mean they're making up the numbers?

Both lines have shown increases in numbers, to the point that both were carrying record numbers at the end of 2013. That's why I asked you about falling numbers in 2014. If they haven't fallen, then what are you on about?

And contrary to whatever you said earlier about the Red line operating below its peak capacity off-peak, the reality is that the Red line carries a higher percentage of its passengers outside rush hour than the Green line does. According to the CSO, the Red line carries about 10% fewer people than the Green line during the morning and evening peaks, but carries 45% more people outside those times - and 53% more on weekends.


So whatever about capacity, the Red line is generally busier than the Green line, and is especially busier outside peak times. The reason is blindingly obvious, and the same blindingly obvious reasons will explain why the Green line catches up and possibly outstrips the Red line once BXD is completed.

Anti-social or criminal behaviour on the Red line may well be a serious issue - but the fact is that passenger numbers have not declined as a result.

And the notion that the Red line might be a bit more "robust" than the Green line is nothing new. Back around early 2005, not long after the lines opened, people in my workplace not far from the Luas were already talking about what we called "the authentic Red line experience".

So complain about it, and ask for it to be tackled - but stop spoofing it up, because piling on the BS doesn't do the credibility of the argument any good.

Whatever about the dislike you have taken to my postings,the "authentic Red-Line Experience" is indeed very visibly worsening in both extent and intensity.

You are perfectly entitled to call BS,which I contend is akin to Admiral Lord Nelson putting his blid eye to the telescope.

You are perfectly entitled to quote the CSO statistics,all gleaned from Fare Paying or Pass Holding customers with a couple of visiual origin & destination audits added for balance.

but the fact is that passenger numbers have not declined as a result.

This non-decline surely should not be taken as an excuse to ignore the potential issues being flagged on a now,daily basis ?

The statistics also,do NOT tell the full story,and that is one of increasing frustration,fear and disenchantment amongst existing cuatomers and,perhaps more importantly,potential NEW regular customers.

If we examine the Red Line extension and it's potential to significantly increase overall Red Line usage,including Park & Ride utilization,then we see a hugely well proven concept literally stumbling along due,in a large way,to unsavoury experiences within a Small Area of that line.

As you point out,all of these issues were well-flagged,yet virtually nothing was attempted to prevent these individuals and gangs from immediately taking charge of the system asif it were their own.

On the making up the numbers issue,quite obviously the numbers you quote would have to be audited,and with the CSO involved I can't imagine it any other way,however,the percentages themselves do not and cannot replicate the "Authentic Red-Line Experience",which to my way of thinking presents a very real and continuing threat to the further operation of Red-Line as it is....

If I was pushed on it,my prediction is that,unless strong remedial action is put in place,we shall see a significant reduction in off-peak and weekend Red-Line services in some form of realignment,perhaps all fortuituously intertwined with BXD's introduction.

PS: There is an interesting piece in todays Sunday Independent which has some relevance,in terms of characters, to "The Authentic Red-Line Experience".

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/feral-teens-make-young-mother-and-boys-prisoners-in-their-home-30834140.html

Like I say,I don't see the issue as one which is worth falling out over,and I do have alternative modes to fall back upon,however as a working taxpayer and farepaying customer of Transdev/RPA I am unwilling to accept the notion that "It's all Grand"

PS: You may describe it as "Spoofing",but I'd ask you to hold off on that judgement until you've had a personal "Authentic Red Line Experience yourself ...

mickydoomsux

foggy_lad wrote: »

Who are you calling a scumbag though? Is it the elderly/disabled/infirm? Or those with serious mental health issues who once upon a time had facilities to keep them occupied during the day but who now have nothing to do except go into town and hang around where they are preyed on by the real scum of the city(dealers,addicts,career criminals).

You know that that isn't who i am referring to.

monument

mickydoomsux wrote: »

It isn't gay people or Asian people or Spanish people or any other minority making the Red Line intolerable for a lot of users.

It's scumbags from scummy areas. The solution is to stop the scumbags from scummy areas having access to the Red Line.

They don't need it because they aren't going anywhere to do anything useful. It's the same reason that they don't need the free travel passes they all have.

Cut the "scummy areas" talk out -- thanks.

Moderator

monument

AlekSmart wrote: »

This non-decline surely should not be taken as an excuse to ignore the potential issues being flagged on a now,daily basis ?

....

Like I say,I don't see the issue as one which is worth falling out over,and I do have alternative modes to fall back upon,however as a working taxpayer and farepaying customer of Transdev/RPA I am unwilling to accept the notion that "It's all Grand"

Big difference between saying it's all grand and calling you out on the idea that passenger numbers are in decline when passenger numbers seem to be still rising.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And just additionally since I mentioned most saw this coming long before the red line was under construction - I can confidently say, if anything, the new line is going to be worse. They are running it to Broombridge through Cabra (an area where IE trains are routinely bricked) and I foresee bad images of trams entering O'Connell street with windows put in.

The new line and its depot will actually go a long way to making the area better.

The central issue with Broombridge was that because the train station and the old railway yard was abandoned or near-abandoned, the area became a playground for the disenfranchised. The new train station and depot will secure the site.

Grandeeod

Max Carr wrote: »

No. Why would you think that? Have you even been on the red luas line? It's practiacally free transport for thugs, scum and feral teenagers. Why would you want to facilitate more of this????

While I would be the first to recognise the anti social issues on the red line, your assessment above is an insult to the majotity of users who cause no problems.

n97 mini

monument wrote: »

The central issue with Broombridge was that because the train station and the old railway yard was abandoned or near-abandoned, the area became a playground for the disenfranchised. The new train station and depot will secure the site.

And the central solution should have been better policing and parenting, but instead it's getting a tram depot!

Personally I believe that if the level of policing is the same as on the Red Line, this will become effectively an extension of the Red Line's problems.

AlekSmart

AlekSmart wrote: »

You are perfectly entitled to quote the CSO statistics,all gleaned from Fare Paying or Pass Holding customers with a couple of visiual origin & destination audits added for balance.

And according to those pesky facts, the numbers have risen, not fallen. But according to your less than rigorous guessing dressed up as analysis, there's a great big tide of people not using the Red line that needs to be stemmed in some way.

AlekSmart wrote: »

This non-decline surely should not be taken as an excuse to ignore the potential issues being flagged on a now,daily basis ?

It's one thing to deal with issues; it's another to be hysterical about them. I'm not unaware of the authentic Red line experience; my point is that making up facts to pretend the problems are having effects that they are not having does not help your credibility.

AlekSmart wrote: »

The statistics also,do NOT tell the full story

Making things up about passengers staying away doesn't tell it either.

AlekSmart wrote: »

If I was pushed on it,my prediction is that,unless strong remedial action is put in place,we shall see a significant reduction in off-peak and weekend Red-Line services in some form of realignment,perhaps all fortuituously intertwined with BXD's introduction.

If you were pushed on it, you'd invent some operational response to the passenger demand effect that you've also invented. What use is that? The only people who'd benefit from that invented response would be an unholy alliance of Topaz and Dublin Bus. In the real world, why would the Luas operators hand money to that pair for no good reason?

AlekSmart wrote: »

PS: You may describe it as "Spoofing",but I'd ask you to hold off on that judgement until you've had a personal "Authentic Red Line Experience yourself ...

All I''m doing is avoiding prejudicial assumptions and bringing a bit of objectivity and intellectual rigour to the discussion. We're all well aware of anti-social and criminal behaviour, and we're all well aware that some of this happens on the Red line. We would also doubtless agree that it shouldn't be happening and should be dealt with. But making things up about falling passenger numbers doesn't help. Instead of adding light to the debate, it just makes the argument look patchy.

Grolschevik

I've said it here before, but again...

My partner uses the Red Line twice daily, between Connolly and Smithfield, office commuting hours.

I use it less often, but regularly, at odd hours.

Neither of us have witnessed any serious trouble. Drunks and junkies, yeah, but they tend to keep to themselves.

Only one incident I can recall in years of using it: ended with a gang of singing drunks being escorted off by security.

To be honest, I've experienced more car strike related delays than serious antisocial behaviour.

I don't think it's at all as bad as some are making out, and I have to wonder about the agenda or sensibilities of those describing the alleged behaviour of an underclass they seem to enjoy insulting and denigrating.

Of course, maybe we've just been incredibly lucky in our very regular and frequent usage of the Red Line.

But part of me thinks that most of the horror stories are just that. Stories.

Reati

Grolschevik wrote: »

But part of me thinks that most of the horror stories are just that. Stories.

A few years back my friends and I've saw a junkie take a **** into a M&S bag while on one of my very infrequent rides of the red line. I'm just glad he used the bag.

Another time I saw a junkie walk up and down the tram roaring at random people until someone ****ed him off at the next stop.

I've seen people shoot up and others so drunk they are asleep on the ground.

I'd say if I ride the Red line more than 5 times in a year I'd be doing well. Maybe many of the thing ya hear are only stories.... but my experiences weren't.

Grolschevik

Reati wrote: »

A few years back my friends and I've saw a junkie take a **** into a M&S bag while on one of my very infrequent rides of the red line. I'm just glad he used the bag.

Another time I saw a junkie walk up and down the tram roaring at random people until someone ****ed him off at the next stop.
I've seen people shoot up and others so drunk they are asleep on the ground.

I'd say if I ride the Red line more than 5 times in a year I'd be doing well. Maybe many of the thing ya hear are only stories.... but my experiences weren't.

That's very bad luck. At a rough estimate, my partner alone has used the Red Line about 3500 times in the last few years and has never seen stuff like that. We our be very lucky, very often. Must do the Lotto, so...

Reati

Grolschevik wrote: »

That's very bad luck. At a rough estimate, my partner alone has used the Red Line about 3500 times in the last few years and has never seen stuff like that. We our be very lucky, very often. Must do the Lotto, so...

I've no doubt it's not that bad all the time. Actually, if it was no one would use to Maybe it's the other way around and I'm the lucky one who get's to see these things... I should do the lotto :P

John_Rambo

anewme wrote: »

Never again. Apart from being sandwiched like something from a third world country it was skanger central alert. Pick pockets, etc, junkies. Terrible. There was a menacing air as if a fight was going to break out at any moment.

That sounds awful. What was stolen from you by the pickpockets, and was there many of them? What did the junkies do to you? When did the fight break out and what started it?

Reati

John_Rambo wrote: »

That sounds awful. What was stolen from you by the pickpockets, and was there many of them?

Just because this poster wasn't bothered by the junkies, or robbed deosn't mean there is not a problem.

http://www.thejournal.ie/pickpocket-gang-luas-1489444-May2014/
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-td-olivia-mitchell-3134120 (green line I believe)

John_Rambo

Reati wrote: »

Just because this poster wasn't bothered by the junkies, or robbed deosn't mean there is not a problem

We all know drug use, robbery and fights are problems. If it didn't bother the poster he/she wouldn't be posting. Read the rest of his/her post.

foggy_lad

Reati wrote: »

A few years back my friends and I've saw a junkie take a **** into a M&S bag while on one of my very infrequent rides of the red line. I'm just glad he used the bag.

Another time I saw a junkie walk up and down the tram roaring at random people until someone ****ed him off at the next stop.

I've seen people shoot up and others so drunk they are asleep on the ground.

I'd say if I ride the Red line more than 5 times in a year I'd be doing well. Maybe many of the thing ya hear are only stories.... but my experiences weren't.

Most of the people that people assume are junkies are not, they are people with serious mental health issues and also people who have had car accidents and have serious brain injuries which affect how they behave. For years these people lived out of mental hospitals and other care centres where they could go during the day but cutbacks during the celtic tiger years and during the 80s mean those unfortunate people now have nowhere to go during the day so the luas and other public transport is their playground.

Until proper mental health facilities are put in place for these people they will continue to hang around luas stops selling/trading their sleeping tablets and "valium" and being preyed upon by real criminals like the gang that hang around busáras most nights waiting on the free food from the homeless bus.

languagenerd

I don't live in Ireland atm but I'll be using the red line again when I come home for Christmas - can't say I'm looking forward to it. I used it daily for 5 years and saw all of the above. I've witnessed full-on fights, tourists punched in the face and a 5 foot Swiss girl pushing a 6 foot thug off the tram because the driver left the doors open while waiting for the guards, people pissing out the doors at stops, drug dealing, drunks throwing things, guys carrying weapons, extreme racist comments shouted at a black girl for over 10min... Personally, I have been harrassed, attacked by groups of feral brats (twice in one journey last summer) and had my ass groped as I tried to board.

And every time I've reported this stuff to Transdev they tell me they have security guards "all day" - where are they, then?!

I know it's not necessarily Transdev's fault. But it makes me so angry to see what people put up with on a daily basis. As much as I don't want to be that person who moved away and harps on about how much better things are abroad, I really notice the threatening atmosphere and the volume of skangers when I'm home now that I don't see it everyday. It's a real shame that this stuff is tolerated in Dublin in general. It's a great city, but in some ways, it's been handed over to scumbags who do whatever the hell they like and ruin things for the respectful majority. And I say this as someone who used to passionately defend Dublin whenever people criticised it

mickydoomsux

foggy_lad wrote: »

Most of the people that people assume are junkies are not, they are people with serious mental health issues and also people who have had car accidents and have serious brain injuries which affect how they behave. For years these people lived out of mental hospitals and other care centres where they could go during the day but cutbacks during the celtic tiger years and during the 80s mean those unfortunate people now have nowhere to go during the day so the luas and other public transport is their playground.

Until proper mental health facilities are put in place for these people they will continue to hang around luas stops selling/trading their sleeping tablets and "valium" and being preyed upon by real criminals like the gang that hang around busáras most nights waiting on the free food from the homeless bus.

Would you stop.

Why isn't the Green Line the exact same then? Does the Red Line run through areas with a disproportionately high incidence of mental health problems/head injuries?

No, it runs through undesirable areas full of undesirables. You can throw all of the "resources" you want at these people but they will still want to get their fix at all costs.

The softly-softly approach has failed miserably in Dublin and in certain other cities and towns around the country. It's time to start coming down on these types like a tonne of bricks.

Spanish Eyes

Not having any interraction with the driver to either pay or show a pass or scan your card has led to this on the Luas IMO.

The "open door" policy on Luas is just an invitation to buck the system. And many do.

So the scumbags can do what they like.

The bus is so much more civilised these days I find, mainly because there is an eyeballing with the driver. (to show the pass, lol) And of course there is cctv onboard, and there are fewer passengers than the Luas. So it is easier to manage.

There is a Luas type thing in Nice, and there is no trouble at all. None. But the inspectors blitz it now and then and take no prisoners.

mumo3

I take the Luas red line regularly, I wouldn't go into town any other way and have often brought my children on it. I have yet to take a journey with out encountering some scum or an other, but have been please to see on many occasions, decent members of the public put them in their place. On one occasion there were a gang of teenagers trying to melt the chair and I am ashamed to say it but I just sat there, and then an older gentleman 60+ let rip at them and they skulked off at the next stop. That taught a lesson and I have since then often let rip at assholes carrying on on the Luas. If a man of his age can do it a women in her mid thirties can.

AlekSmart

Deleted User wrote: »

And according to those pesky facts, the numbers have risen, not fallen.But according to your less than rigorous guessing dressed up as analysis, there's a great big tide of people not using the Red line that needs to be stemmed in some way.

It's one thing to deal with issues; it's another to be hysterical about them. I'm not unaware of the authentic Red line experience; my point is that making up facts to pretend the problems are having effects that they are not having does not help your credibility.

Making things up about passengers staying away doesn't tell it either.

If you were pushed on it, you'd invent some operational response to the passenger demand effect that you've also invented. What use is that? The only people who'd benefit from that invented response would be an unholy alliance of Topaz and Dublin Bus. In the real world, why would the Luas operators hand money to that pair for no good reason?

All I''m doing is avoiding prejudicial assumptions and bringing a bit of objectivity and intellectual rigour to the discussion. We're all well aware of anti-social and criminal behaviour, and we're all well aware that some of this happens on the Red line. We would also doubtless agree that it shouldn't be happening and should be dealt with. But making things up about falling passenger numbers doesn't help. Instead of adding light to the debate, it just makes the argument look patchy.

I'm happy that we have some level of agreement that these incidences should'nt be happening and that they should be dealt with.

It's interesting to note the Topaz/Dublin Bus comparison as possible beneficiaries (?) of a Luas run-down,whatever about private car usage,one of the major contributory factors to the historic reduction in Public Bus services to Tallaght over the past 20 years was the amount of anti-social behaviour which went unchallenged on DB services,which made upper-saloons largely the stomping ground of the same types of character now exercising their dominance on Red-Line.

The chances of Dublin Bus being capable of catering for abandoned Luas customers is I'm afraid,no more than fanciful,as it's resources no longer allow for it.

So in terms of effective,efficient Public Transport the Red Line has been the best thing ever to happen to Tallaght,which is why I am loath to surrender it to gangs of youthful malcontents and assorted other criminally inclined individuals.

Luas Red-Line has been my own Public Transport of choice since it opened and hopefully will continue to be so.

It is my contention that EVERY journey on Red Line should be carried out with an expectation of normality prevailing,however as is increasingly the case the default expectation is of some form of anti-social,criminal or abberant behaviour occuring on any given journey.

I'd concede that my less than rigourous guesswork quite obviously does not meet your own rigorous statistical requirements,however I'm not accepting the accusation of Hysteria or of making up facts.

My contention was,and remains,that the continuing success of Luas Red Line is hampered by the ongoing incidents of significant Public Order and Criminal Activities.

The usership statistics are Not increasing in the manner they could be expected to if Red Line were not so identified with the above abberant behaviours.

The extensions to Red-Line between 2009-2011 accounted of themselves for much of the extra ridership.

However some deft scheduling alterations have seen both Service & Vehicle Seat Km figures fall by c 7% in 2013 which could be interpreted,by some,as a warning of trouble on the horizon.

One can be as intellectually rigorous as one likes,but to suggest that the current level of anti-social behaviour levels on Red Line,even approaches tolerable,fails to meet either of those criteria.

AlekSmart

languagenerd wrote: »

I don't live in Ireland atm but I'll be using the red line again when I come home for Christmas - can't say I'm looking forward to it. I used it daily for 5 years and saw all of the above. I've witnessed full-on fights, tourists punched in the face and a 5 foot Swiss girl pushing a 6 foot thug off the tram because the driver left the doors open while waiting for the guards, people pissing out the doors at stops, drug dealing, drunks throwing things, guys carrying weapons, extreme racist comments shouted at a black girl for over 10min... Personally, I have been harrassed, attacked by groups of feral brats (twice in one journey last summer) and had my ass groped as I tried to board.

And every time I've reported this stuff to Transdev they tell me they have security guards "all day" - where are they, then?!

I know it's not necessarily Transdev's fault. But it makes me so angry to see what people put up with on a daily basis. As much as I don't want to be that person who moved away and harps on about how much better things are abroad, I really notice the threatening atmosphere and the volume of skangers when I'm home now that I don't see it everyday. It's a real shame that this stuff is tolerated in Dublin in general. It's a great city, but in some ways, it's been handed over to scumbags who do whatever the hell they like and ruin things for the respectful majority. And I say this as someone who used to passionately defend Dublin whenever people criticised it

Like yourself Languagenerd,I see myself as a defender of Luas,particularly Red-Line,however your points regarding the incidence of these behaviours can be supported by the RPA's own statistics.

http://www.rpa.ie/Documents/Health%20and%20Safety/RPA_Luas_Annual_Safety_Statistical_Report_2012.pdf

Antisocial behaviour.

A significant upsurge in antisocial behaviour became evident over the years 2006 to 2009.

While Veolia is directly responsible for the management of security on Luas, both
RPA and Veolia are making every effort to tackle this serious issue which remains a topic for public concern and media attention.

6.1

Analysis

The number of public disorder incidents recorded increased by 16% when normalised per annual million tram kms of service journeys

The number of vandalism incidents when measured on the same basis increased by 47%.

Vandalism is mainly focused on damage to the trams and platform infrastructure.

One of the principal reasons for the increase in vandalism rates was thieves targeting the ticket vending machines (TVM) at Luas stops. Modifications have been made to theTVMs to prevent this vandalism.
These modifications are proving to be successful in reducing the incidents of vandalism, and there was a significant drop in the number of incidents towards the end of 2012.



2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
272 350 868 868 805 971 1201 Public Disorder.
565 727 661 963 719 964 1839 Vandalism

Those statistics tell,to me,quite a bleak story,in which these occurences saw increases of between 3 and 5 fold over the period between 2006-2012.

However,as Mumo3 points out,it really does come back to those of us who pay for,and appreciate,the level of service provided by Luas to lobby strongly for more affirmative action from the various agencies involved,not just Transdev,who after all,are simply a Public Transport Operator,not Civic Guardians of the Peace.

Grandeeod

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Would you stop.

Why isn't the Green Line the exact same then? Does the Red Line run through areas with a disproportionately high incidence of mental health problems/head injuries?

No, it runs through undesirable areas full of undesirables. You can throw all of the "resources" you want at these people but they will still want to get their fix at all costs.

The softly-softly approach has failed miserably in Dublin and in certain other cities and towns around the country. It's time to start coming down on these types like a tonne of bricks.

Leaving the "Mental health" argument out of things, you are now disguising "scumbag areas" as "undesirable areas" with "scumbags" disguised as "undesirables". I'll meet you half way on the second one.

You have reduced this discussion to a level of the luas red line simply running through areas that are not deserving of public transport. While you have been warned by a mod you are still persisting with an argument that insults the majority of users on the red line. Perhaps you can seperate your vitriol from the reality that "scumbag/undesirable areas" is offensive to people. Considering you work for a public transport company, your attitude is absolutely despicable.

the_syco

n97 mini wrote: »

Have you seen the Robocop movie? Better to get regular police to sort things out before getting private companies in.

I honestly don't see the problem.

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Dedicated transport police are badly needed on all public transport services IMHO

Correction; a dedicated transport prison is needed.

alias no.9 wrote: »

Revoke all parking privileges for TDs at Leinster House and make it mandatory for them to park and ride from the Red Cow. Everything else will follow.

I thought you wanted less scum on the Red Line? :pac:

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

They have no fear of the Guards either

Only those who obey the law, fear the law.

As has been said, the Gardai know it's pointless, as they if they ever go into court, the sob story shall be paraded out, and nothing will be done.

The Gardai don't do anything, as it's f**king demoralising to have built a case against a scumbag, only for some judge to let the kid go.

monument wrote: »

I'm not saying that there's no issues: clearly there are issues, but unless the issues have gotten a lot worse in the last 12 months, the idea of large-scale passage decline is incorrect. The opposite happened in 2013 -- red line passenger numbers grew faster than the green line.

I think the explosion of numbers using the Red Line would be due to the companies setting up in Sandyford.

Also, is the "explosion" of people at certain times?

Mezcita wrote: »

New York's Subway barriers springs to mind.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/x2RuqLYl6yClwHhdpHn06YVvO9aXUkVuNwbwL-488vob8ME6We-o-G11C4J4von4_y5SKZBy-27ajqo8_URy8NueQvkAPtdhIqY9rIUVB0WiD-xI5Esg1iFdz8s=s600

Unworkable, as in the end, only those who obey the law would be inconvenienced, as the scum who disobey the law would vandalise the ones which were installed close to them...

mickydoomsux wrote: »

They are "entitled" to travel because this country is insane.

Since they don't work, perhaps we should curtail the hours that they can use the services to between 13:00 and 15:00 ?

foggy_lad wrote: »

Who are you calling a scumbag though?

The ones who attack people, who intimidate people, and who vandalise the train.

Deleted User wrote: »

According to the CSO, the Red line carries about 10% fewer people than the Green line during the morning and evening peaks, but carries 45% more people outside those times - and 53% more on weekends.

Is there any stats on how many of each category gets free travel pass, and what age they are?

Would be interesting to see how many young people use the service for free, and at what times, to help police the Luas.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Most of the people that people assume are junkies are not, they are people with serious mental health issues

If they attack people they should be locked up. End of. If they are a danger to other people due to mental problems, they should be brought to a special home, and kept there for the protection of other people, but this is a topic for another thread, as society seems to think that these homes are not the way forward for the mentally unbalanced, but to have them come to day shelters if need be. This experiment has probably failed here, as it is failing in England.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There is a Luas type thing in Nice, and there is no trouble at all. None. But the inspectors blitz it now and then and take no prisoners.

Likewise in Nantes. But the French police on the trains take a lot less crap from anyone.

=-=

I use the Red Line once in a blue moon. No-one really troubles me, as I'm 6 foot 6 male, shaved head, and a beard. But I have witnessed groups of scumbags walk onto the Luas trams with troublemaking their game, and they tend to attack the vunerable.

syklops

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Any stop south of the green is fine & the trams themselves perfectly fine too.
(In my times using it).

The trams crawl with ticket inspectors & security staff...... Gotta work hard on all those office workers quietly reading kindles.

A lot of undesirables around the Ballyogan stop. Been intimidated a few times, and lots of terrorising kids.

Kermit.de.frog

In my opinion this can not continue the way it is. Ultimately if the decline continues the line would have to be shut and the public would have to be told in straight language why it is being shut. We can not have a tram line that by the year is becoming more and more dangerous running through the center of the city.

If it continues it should be closed with the blame laid directly at the communities that have been generating the most trouble and also the planners who planned the line. At the very least it will send a message that society is not willing to tolerate this nonsense and that the safety of the law abiding majority comes first.

Also the amount of young scrotes with free bus passes is a sight to behold when I use public transport. Something is wrong with the system there.

Aard

Are the people screaming blue murder actually regular users of the line? Yeah, it's not the Shangri-La on rails, but it's perfectly fine at what it does -- getting you in and out of town fast and reliably.

monument

Right.

With OTT posts about closing the most popular public transport line in the country and calling areas "scumbag" areas etc, that's about enough.

Infractions may follow if any body has posted against the mod warnings.