Luas Red Line - not suitable for children

BraziliaNZ

My partner uses it every day for work and nearly every day has stories to tell me of junkies collapsing and antisocial behaviour.
Also... are dangerous gangs of feral city kids solely native to Dublin and 1920s New York?

AlekSmart

Deleted User wrote: »

You're saying that despite its high and increasing popularity, It should be even more popular and get used even more? Have I got that right?

Should this "high and increasing" popularity be reason to tolerate the equally high and increasing levels of violent anti-social behaviour on the Red Line ?

Currently,all of the agencies concerned appear to be comfortable with the collateral damage level of this behaviour,something I find both sad and anger inducing.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-beaten-with-bottle-in-horror-attack-on-luas-30832867.html

There have been a number of serious anti-social behaviour problems and serious incidents on Luas trams this year which even prompted undercover gardai to monitor it on occasions particularly on the red-line where this week's horror attack happened.

Almost 1,000 incidents of anti-social behaviour and threats to passengers and staff occurred on the Luas last year, according to recent figures.

In 2013 there were 677 public order offences, and a number of prosecutions are currently with the gardai. Staff and passengers were also subjected to abusive behaviour on 199 occasions.

So,yep...The Red Line SHOULD be busier and used more over it's entire operating envelope,not just at peak-times.

However,reality and personal experience (I'm a regular Red Liner) tell me,that the constant exposure to low-mid level intimidatory behaviour is very steadily sucking the (Fare Paying) life-blood out of it.

Teyla Emmagan

A Neurotic wrote: »

I've been using the red line semi-regularly for at least 3 years and have never had any trouble on it. Surely I can't be the only one!?

No, but you might be one of the ones causing all the hassle :pac:

Peist2007

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I wish there was some kind of Godwin's law type internet rule for anyone who mentions "Lugs Brannigan" ffs

I wish there was some kind of Godwin's law type internet rule for anyone who mentions "Godwin's Law"

The mention of it screams pseud

AlekSmart

Peist2007 wrote: »

I wish there was some kind of Godwin's law type internet rule for anyone who mentions "Godwin's Law"

The mention of it screams pseud

God,you win ! :P

anewme

I went into Dublin last Sunday on the Red Luas Line.

Never again. Apart from being sandwiched like something from a third world country it was skanger central alert. Pick pockets, etc, junkies. Terrible. There was a menacing air as if a fight was going to break out at any moment.

I dont live in Dublin any more and its only when you move out and come back that you see how bad it is. The red luas line is shocking and I wont be using it again. Ever. I feel sorry for anyone trying to police it or work on it.

Max Carr

It's a waste of resources to provide decent public transport to deprived reasons for all sorts of reasons - this anti social point being one of them.

AlekSmart

Max Carr wrote: »

It's a waste of resources to provide decent public transport to deprived reasons for all sorts of reasons - this anti social point being one of them.

But Luas Red-Line's services are not solely being provided to the "deprived" !

The Red-Line is for EVERYBODY to use and I'm not an advocate of giving up a service I'm paying for and using,simply because some anti-social savages with a sense of entitlement deem it theirs...No Thank You !

With my newly elected TD,Paul Murphy's views apparently held in great regard on these Social matters,I might just seek his opinions on where Transdev/RPA should be going with this ?

n97 mini

anewme wrote: »

I dont live in Dublin any more and its only when you move out and come back that you see how bad it is.

Dublin isn't that bad. The Red Line Luas is a number of shítty areas distilled, concentrated and put on wheels.

Galwayguy35

I don't use the Luas much but on one occasion when I was on the Red Line these two little scrotes started abusing a couple who were just minding their own business, it went on for over 10 minutes.

They have no fear of the Guards either, will amount to nothing and just breed the next generation and we will be still talking about this in 40 years time.

Cantremember

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I don't use the Luas much but on one occasion when I was on the Red Line these two little scrotes started abusing a couple who were just minding their own business, it went on for over 10 minutes.

They have no fear of the Guards either, will amount to nothing and just breed the next generation and we will be still talking about this in 40 years time.

Exactly. The disadvantage that these people have is that they are themselves. They should be paid not to have kids rather than be paid a children's allowance.

Max Carr

AlekSmart wrote: »

But Luas Red-Line's services are not solely being provided to the "deprived" !

The Red-Line is for EVERYBODY to use and I'm not an advocate of giving up a service I'm paying for and using,simply because some anti-social savages with a sense of entitlement deem it theirs...No Thank You !

With my newly elected TD,Paul Murphy's views apparently held in great regard on these Social matters,I might just seek his opinions on where Transdev/RPA should be going with this ?

Compare it to the green line so....

monument

Have things on the red line gotten that much worse in the last year?





I'm not saying that there's no issues: clearly there are issues, but unless the issues have gotten a lot worse in the last 12 months, the idea of large-scale passage decline is incorrect. The opposite happened in 2013 -- red line passenger numbers grew faster than the green line.

mickydoomsux

Max Carr wrote: »

It's a waste of resources to provide decent public transport to deprived reasons for all sorts of reasons - this anti social point being one of them.

Yeah, it's almost as if running a main transport artery in our capital city through garbage areas full of garbage people and then giving them free travel on it and basically turning a blind eye to what they get up to on said transport because they are "deprived " somehow turned out to be a bad idea.

It's pretty much a zoo on wheels at this stage.

We need Gardai at every stop past Heuston on the way into the city bodily removing the riff-raff to make the service palatable for normal people.

Max Carr

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Yeah, it's almost as if running a main transport artery in our capital city through garbage areas full of garbage people and then giving them free travel on it and basically turning a blind eye to what they get up to on said transport because they are "deprived " somehow turned out to be a bad idea.

It's pretty much a zoo on wheels at this stage.

We need Gardai at every stop past Hueston on the way into the city bodily removing the riff-raff to make the service palatable for normal people.

Agree completely

mickydoomsux

I've walked into the city centre to avoid having to use the red line from Heuston and i work in public transport.

Grandeeod

Despite all the snobby bull**** going on here, the Red Line luas is a victim. A victim of issues that have been going on in Dublin for years and unconnected with luas itself. The route goes through trouble spots that were identified long before luas was even mentioned. 90% of red line users are decent folk. The rest are tossers ruining it and taking the piss.

mickydoomsux

Grandeeod wrote: »

The route goes through trouble spots that were identified long before luas was even mentioned.

Maybe those areas should have been avoided entirely so.

Make the denizens of these "spots" walk to where ever they have to go to. They more than likely have plenty of free time and it might keep them out of trouble and away from pestering people trying to go about their day and do something productive.

Mezcita

Surely half the problem here is that people are getting on the LUAS for free who then go on to make trouble. Would it not be possible to cage in the platform area to make it physically impossible to get on without paying?

New York's Subway barriers springs to mind.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/x2RuqLYl6yClwHhdpHn06YVvO9aXUkVuNwbwL-488vob8ME6We-o-G11C4J4von4_y5SKZBy-27ajqo8_URy8NueQvkAPtdhIqY9rIUVB0WiD-xI5Esg1iFdz8s=s600

The caged area could run for the length of the LUAS so that when it arrived the only way to get on would be via the turnstiles.

Granted it wouldn't be the most aesthetically beautiful thing in the world and resembles something I think I saw in 28 Weeks Later but wouldn't it get rid of the free loaders?

Max Carr

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Maybe those areas should have been avoided entirely so.

Make the denizens of these "spots" walk to where ever they have to go to. They more than likely have plenty of free time and it might keep them out of trouble and away from pestering people trying to go about their day and do something productive.

Yes. It's best to focus public transport funding on better areas eg Dublin Southside, better areas of Northside eg Malahide. If metro north ever re-imerges lessons must be learned from the luas red line and hell holes like Finglas should be bypassed completely.

Grandeeod

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Maybe those areas should have been avoided entirely so.

Make the denizens of these "spots" walk to where ever they have to go to. They more than likely have plenty of free time and it might keep them out of trouble and away from pestering people trying to go about their day and do something productive.

Denizens? Holy ****, you have displayed some amount of ignorance there. What's next? Do we deny gay people the right to exist because others dont like it? Despite the small percentage of trouble makers, you do not deny an area of public transport due to anti social behaviour.

Grandeeod

Max Carr wrote: »

Yes. It's best to focus public transport funding on better areas eg Dublin Southside, better areas of Northside eg Malahide. If metro north ever re-imerges lessons must be learned from the luas red line and hell holes like Finglas should be bypassed completely.

I assume you are joking?

mickydoomsux

Mezcita wrote: »

Surely half the problem here is that people are getting on the LUAS for free who then go on to make trouble. Would it not be possible to cage in the platform area to make it physically impossible to get on without paying?

New York's Subway barriers springs to mind.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/x2RuqLYl6yClwHhdpHn06YVvO9aXUkVuNwbwL-488vob8ME6We-o-G11C4J4von4_y5SKZBy-27ajqo8_URy8NueQvkAPtdhIqY9rIUVB0WiD-xI5Esg1iFdz8s=s600

The caged area could run for the length of the LUAS so that when it arrived the only way to get on would be via the turnstiles.

Granted it wouldn't be the most aesthetically beautiful thing in the world and resembles something I think I saw in 28 Weeks Later but wouldn't it get rid of the free loaders?

They all have free travel passes anyway so that would be pointless.

They are "entitled" to travel because this country is insane.

Max Carr

Grandeeod wrote: »

I assume you are joking?

No. Why would you think that? Have you even been on the red luas line? It's practiacally free transport for thugs, scum and feral teenagers. Why would you want to facilitate more of this????

mickydoomsux

Grandeeod wrote: »

Denizens? Holy ****, you have displayed some amount of ignorance there. What's next? Do we deny gay people the right to exist because others dont like it? Despite the small percentage of trouble makers, you do not deny an area of public transport due to anti social behaviour.

It isn't gay people or Asian people or Spanish people or any other minority making the Red Line intolerable for a lot of users.

It's scumbags from scummy areas. The solution is to stop the scumbags from scummy areas having access to the Red Line.

They don't need it because they aren't going anywhere to do anything useful. It's the same reason that they don't need the free travel passes they all have.

foggy_lad

mickydoomsux wrote: »

It isn't gay people or Asian people or Spanish people or any other minority making the Red Line intolerable for a lot of users.

It's scumbags from scummy areas. The solution is to stop the scumbags from scummy areas having access to the Red Line.

They don't need it because they aren't going anywhere to do anything useful. It's the same reason that they don't need the free travel passes they all have.

Who are you calling a scumbag though? Is it the elderly/disabled/infirm? Or those with serious mental health issues who once upon a time had facilities to keep them occupied during the day but who now have nothing to do except go into town and hang around where they are preyed on by the real scum of the city(dealers,addicts,career criminals).

Kermit.de.frog

Tow wrote: »

If we introduced the level of policing they have on the Paris Metro it would clean up. The current system where the ticket inspectors don't even bother to ask the junkies and et all is a disgrace.

They don't ask them because the government sees fit to spend our money on free travel passes for them.

It's not just a Luas issue. The whole city center is not policed nor managed properly. It's embarrassing but it's also scandalous that a low level menace is tolerated in the city center to the extent it is.

The Luas is just another symptom of stupid planning. Who decided it would be a good idea to run a tram through some of Dublin's worst areas for anti social behaviour and drug abuse and run it right by the childrens court!?

It's that sort of mindless lack of attention to detail that has the line the way it is.

The thing is everybody except seemingly the planners saw this coming when the line was first planned.

We now have a tram line that more and more people are scared (for very valid reasons) to use.

foggy_lad

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Dedicated transport police are badly needed on all public transport services IMHO

The ordinary police don't have the powers or resources to deal with this problem and a photo opportunity for the minister as he announces a new transport police with no funding or changes in law to allow the new police proper powers to detain and restrain if necessary will never achieve anything.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Nope, i'm from a city where the batons come out at the sign of any trouble from the human garbage so that they are kept in their rightful place by being taught a lesson.

Knees in the back of necks is what is required on the Red Line. Make them terrified and grateful to be allowed on the LUAS. They are getting on for free anyway because they are "vulnerable ".

Put these "people" in their place until they can act like actual human beings.

The batons are definitely needed but not at the expense of criminalising/demonising the poor, elderly, physically impaired and mentally ill.

Kermit.de.frog

And just additionally since I mentioned most saw this coming long before the red line was under construction - I can confidently say, if anything, the new line is going to be worse. They are running it to Broombridge through Cabra (an area where IE trains are routinely bricked) and I foresee bad images of trams entering O'Connell street with windows put in.

AlekSmart

AlekSmart wrote: »

However,reality and personal experience (I'm a regular Red Liner) tell me,that the constant exposure to low-mid level intimidatory behaviour is very steadily sucking the (Fare Paying) life-blood out of it.

Does that mean they're making up the numbers?

Both lines have shown increases in numbers, to the point that both were carrying record numbers at the end of 2013. That's why I asked you about falling numbers in 2014. If they haven't fallen, then what are you on about?

And contrary to whatever you said earlier about the Red line operating below its peak capacity off-peak, the reality is that the Red line carries a higher percentage of its passengers outside rush hour than the Green line does. According to the CSO, the Red line carries about 10% fewer people than the Green line during the morning and evening peaks, but carries 45% more people outside those times - and 53% more on weekends.

So whatever about capacity, the Red line is generally busier than the Green line, and is especially busier outside peak times. The reason is blindingly obvious, and the same blindingly obvious reasons will explain why the Green line catches up and possibly outstrips the Red line once BXD is completed.

Anti-social or criminal behaviour on the Red line may well be a serious issue - but the fact is that passenger numbers have not declined as a result.

And the notion that the Red line might be a bit more "robust" than the Green line is nothing new. Back around early 2005, not long after the lines opened, people in my workplace not far from the Luas were already talking about what we called "the authentic Red line experience".

So complain about it, and ask for it to be tackled - but stop spoofing it up, because piling on the BS doesn't do the credibility of the argument any good.