Formula 1 2015: General Discussion Thread

lolie

Cool_CM wrote: »

Looks like the design was stolen from another racing legend of German extraction:

It does indeed, good spot. And we all know how well that car went.
Whilst on the subject Red Bull should have asked vettel for the loan of his monza helmet from last year for the test this week.

smellslikeshoes

Infoanon wrote: »

Can't find any link to confirm that it was Force India that voted against

Here is a BBC article reporting it was FI

Ghost Train

Good blog post here https://joesaward.wordpress.com/ , which suggests that it would probably take more than just force india objecting, also mentions that melbourne wouldn't necessarily be the deadline to get a car on the grid as the team could miss up to three races like at the end of last year

do think it's a pity if a chance to rescue the team or get more cars on the grid (even just at the back) is let slip by

F1 fanatic

I believe one of the reasons that Marussias use of last years car was rejected was on safety grounds. They would be using last years tub and nose which would be higher than this years spec.

weisses

Very happy to see a fellow Dutchman back in F1 in a relatively competitive car

recyclebin

Money had to be a big part in not letting Marussia back. There would be no point in letting them back in if they could not finance themselves beyond this season.

v3ttel

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Marussia/Manor's comeback looking less likely this evening. Strategy group seemingly after deciding they can't use the 2014 car, needed unanimous and Force India voted against.

Grim. wrote: »

lol, oh Vijay

Thidp wrote: »

Force India with so many problems, probably afraid that would be behind Marussia through the year hahaha

That's a shame, would be nice to have them this season.

Zcott wrote: »

It's being reported in a few places now. Pretty poor of Force India to vote against it.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

It's especially prickish of Force India considering how Vijay was up in arms about teams going out of business after Marussia and Caterham pulled out.

Jeez, not sure why Force India are taking the brunt of this? They weren't the only ones to vote against it:

"They wanted to come in with last year's car and it didn't get accepted," F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone told the Independent. "It needed all the teams to agree and there were three or four of them that didn't agree"

The Marussia money will be distributed among the teams, so very likely that Sauber & Lotus were also not in favor of it.

To be fair to him, Fernley's point is fairly reasonable - if true. If the request didn't outline who the perspective owners are going to be, then it's impossible to say if the team is viable long term. If the team isn't viable then what's the point in letting them trail around at the back of the grid for no reason?

There's also a question of safety. Marussia would be running a different spec nose and probably at least a couple of seconds per lap slower than slowest car on the grid. Would they have to scrap the 107% rule for the entire season?

I'm all for the return of Marussia (and Caterham), but there's a lot of things that have to be considered.

challengemaster

OSI wrote: »

Apparently Marussia are selling off parts of Bianchi's car from the crash that put him in a coma. Seem's like very bad form in my book.

They might not have any choice in the matter. It's an asset that can be stripped down and sold for money - and liquidators can force them to do just that.

challengemaster

OSI wrote: »

The liquidation auctions were cancelled no?

Auctions were cancelled because they were in talks with a potential buyer. Liquidators weren't called off though, the team was still in administration. With the ruling that they're unable to use old cars and won't be making a return - more than likely you'll hear of a new auction date soon enough. They have somewhere between £30-60 million debt to pay back.

YbFocus

OSI wrote: »

Apparently Marussia are selling off parts of Bianchi's car from the crash that put him in a coma. Seem's like very bad form in my book.

I bought it privately so maybe it ended up with the guy whom i got it from some questionable way osi.

I'll be doing plenty of looking into its genuineness once i receive it.

smellslikeshoes

v3ttel wrote: »

Jeez, not sure why Force India are taking the brunt of this? They weren't the only ones to vote against it:

No they were, once FI voted against there wasn't any more votes because it wasn't possible to go through without unanimous support. That and the fact that they were the loudest voice calling for help for the smaller teams last year is the reason why they are getting the stick.

Having said that though, if it passed in the strategy group's meeting last night it would also have to be put to the other teams outside of the group and would almost definitely have failed there, that was what Bernie's quote of teams against it was in reference to.

Just so we are clear though I am not against what FI did, F1 is a business and Force India voted in the best interests of their business and if I was in their position I would have done the exact same.

v3ttel

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

No they were, once FI voted against there wasn't any more votes because it wasn't possible to go through without unanimous support.

If you've got multiple teams against it, then why vilify one?

Would Sauber or Lotus (I think they lost their vote to Force India, because they beat them in the Constructors - Bernie's quotes seem to suggest all the teams need to agree, not just those on the strategy group, unless they've added all teams to it?) have done the same in Force India's position? Probably so.

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

That and the fact that they were the loudest voice calling for help for the smaller teams last year is the reason why they are getting the stick.

I'm not sure I agree with that. It was very much a strategic effort between Force India, Lotus and Sauber. I would have said if anything, Lopez was the one shouting the loudest towards the end of the season (and rightly so, he made a lot of great points).

smellslikeshoes

v3ttel wrote: »

If you've got multiple teams against it, then why vilify one?

Because they were the ones who voted, nobody else. Bernie says 3 or 4 disagreed but who is to know if that is true or not. Agree with it our not, FI chose to vote no and be the lightening rod.

Jordan 199

Force India doubts new car will attend the last pre-season test at Barcelona.

So if they don't attend the last pre-season test well their first test will be Practice 1 in Melbourne. Not a great way to start the season.

Ghost Train

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Force India doubts new car will attend the last pre-season test at Barcelona.

So if they don't attend the last pre-season test well their first test will be Practice 1 in Melbourne. Not a great way to start the season.

Sounds like the team is really struggling, after having a good season last year it's surprising.

Fernley added that the primary reasons for the delay were the wait to sign a deal with Toyota over the use of its wind tunnel, as well as the collapse of Caterham and Marussia having "hurt the suppliers and they can't afford to give us the credit terms we've had in the past."

I guess that explains why they would want Manor GP getting back to easily

Manor GP still seem optimistic about going racing and sound like the strategy group meeting doesn't really effect them at this stage, maybe there will be a bit more work converting a 2014 car but if they come out of administration on 19th of febuary that means they might possibly be at the next test? Probably unlikely but will be interesting if they get testing before force india

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/321766/manor-outlines-plans-for-formula-1-entry/

6th February 2015 – Manor, which raced under the Marussia banner in Formula 1, has announced that it plans to enter the upcoming campaign, despite the Strategy Group's decision to prevent them from using its 2014 car.

Marussia entered administration in October and missed the final three races of last year's season but FRP Advisory announced earlier this week that they will come out of administration on February 19, with a view to racing again in 2015.

On Thursday the Strategy Group denied Marussia's apparent request to enter its 2014 car this season, but on Friday evening the team confirmed that it is preparing the 2014 car to meet the stipulations of the Strategy Group, as well as working on the development on its 2015 chassis.

The statement added that the team has had the benefit of being able to recruit staff quickly due to the closure of Marussia, Caterham and cutbacks made in other squads.

Graeme Lowdon, a representative from the team, said that Manor is pushing on with a return to racing and denied that the squad had sent an application to the Strategy Group for yesterday's meeting.

"I was surprised to hear some of the comments made today, particularly regarding an application we were said to have made to yesterday's meeting, which I can confirm was not the case," said Lowdon.

"We did make a request on December 17 last year and we have been working since to satisfy the requirements subsequently communicated to us, specifically complying with all the regulations, aside from the exempted articles.

"The comments also mentioned that issues of compliance were raised, that it was felt that our application lacked substance and contained no supporting documentation to reinforce the case for offering special dispensation.

"Again, we did not make any application to yesterday's Strategy Group meeting and nor were we asked to.

"Instead, we are proceeding with our clear process regarding compliance and building our operation.

"We are doing everything possible to adhere to the process set out for us to return to the 2015 grid. This is a fantastic good news story for the whole sport and we just want to go racing."

Going Strong

I think that Force India's cash flow problems means that they've put all their available money into getting an engine supply as that's beyond their control - Mercedes won't be handing out free engines if FI can't pay for them. The tub though, is more in the team's own hands so to speak so that can be delayed until the last minute.

Zcott

And if you were Force India you'd probably push hard for Manor to be excluded so their prize money gets distributed among the teams, meaning you've an extra $3-4m to help pay for your Mercedes engines...

Ghost Train

I see Ricciardo is on topgear

HigginsJ

Ghost Train wrote: »

I see Ricciardo is on topgear

Not the best interview but cracking time

Ghost Train

HigginsJ wrote: »

Not the best interview but cracking time

Yes, surprised with the time but he was really throwing the car into the corners, good result for him.
Maybe the cooler air temperature helped him a little too

Charlie-Bravo

Yeah, great to see him on there. He did get really good conditions - what is the benefit of cooler air if the track temps aren't so hot?

PopePalpatine

As air cools, it gets denser. Remember that Top Gear special in South America that didn't end with an angry Argentinian mob, where their cars lost power as they ascended the Andes? That was due to the thinner air.

Jordan 199

PopePalpatine wrote: »

As air cools, it gets denser. Remember that Top Gear special in South America that didn't end with an angry Argentinian mob, where their cars lost power as they ascended the Andes? That was due to the thinner air.

That reminds me of the 1988 Mexican GP where turbo charged and normally aspirated engines were used. The higher altitude and thinner air favoured the turbo engines over the normally aspirated engines, in which the normally aspirated engines lost about 20-25% of power due to the thinner air.

Ghost Train

Density of air at 0 degrees is about 1.3kg/m^3 and at 20 degrees is about 1.2. So could be a significant performance boost between summer and winter lap

Tea 1000

Ghost Train wrote: »

Density of air at 0 degrees is about 1.3kg/m^3 and at 20 degrees is about 1.2. So could be a significant performance boost between summer and winter lap

It's still a time that will be hard to beat, maybe that's as quick as that Liana will go on that track. 2.2 seconds quicker than the Stig is impressive, no matter what the day!

ScumLord

Weren't the 2014 F1 cars as fast at the Brazil GP as any car previously because the track is at altitude and the turbo helps counter the lack of air?

mickdw

Do people belief the lap times on top gear.
The celebrity part is an absolute fantasy at this stage.
I would have hoped that they would keep the f1 driver times legit but the gaps ate too big in my opinion.

challengemaster

Not really "lack of air", more lack of oxygen content at altitude. Back to the fire triangle - Less oxygen, less combustion, less power. But yeah, turbos counteract that somewhat by just forcing more air into the engine. You still have less oxygen per volume of air, but you're taking in much more volume.

It's actually what turbochargers were built for originally. There's a good article on it here:
http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/hill-climb-2023375/?no-ist

ScumLord

mickdw wrote: »

Do people belief the lap times on top gear.
The celebrity part is an absolute fantasy at this stage.
I would have hoped that they would keep the f1 driver times legit but the gaps ate too big in my opinion.

I would say there's no reason to think the lap times aren't legit. These guys have a few trial runs and probably not enough to know the track inside and out. If Hamilton sets a good time and the stig is watching the next guy can just grill the stig on how to beat him. Then conditions on the day are going to play a factor.

Tea 1000

ScumLord wrote: »

I would say there's no reason to think the lap times aren't legit. These guys have a few trial runs and probably not enough to know the track inside and out. If Hamilton sets a good time and the stig is watching the next guy can just grill the stig on how to beat him. Then conditions on the day are going to play a factor.

Conditions on the day could have a big influence alright. Vettel had a very windy day, which could have a fair impact on speed, I've driven weedy cars before and into the wind on a breezy day you'd notice it not accelerating as quick.
Interestingly, Lewis had a different Liana to Vettel. Maybe there are slight differences between the cars too. Some of those Liana's got an awful pounding from the regular stars.
I wouldn't say there's much to suggest that they are somehow fixed. If they were going to do that then the Brits would be top.

Edit - just checked, Ricciardo had the same car as Hamilton.