project 40/41

peter kern

Bambaata wrote: »

Here you go - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057303403&page=4

it was much more a test how tired I am from the camp
and while those swim bike run tests are cute. they dont interest me that much. apart to see if one is a training or a race character . (i see so many people that test well and race sh..e and people the test bad and race well anyway
5.19 without wetsuit
4.41 with wetsuit 49.8x m pool , in nac the wetsuit swim prob 2-4 sec faster the non wetsuit swim 3-4 sec slower.

peter kern

monday
1 hour ccle with 2 x10 fast
4 hours easy
packed bike
16 k run at 4,20ish pace ( my first run in a long time in ealry afternoon sun totally loved it.


was lucky on flight home 3 seats for myself also thanks ryainair for having a space at the emergency exit waiting for me on the flight down
40 min cycle home from the airport ( strenght exercise with all the wine , ham and cheese ;-)

tue
8 k easy run


wed
2x 400 m tt s overall 85 min swim

10 k easy run

thursday

2x4o min bike usual pace

pm 18 k run including 13 x 350 at 123 400m pace average

friday
2.5 hour bike some solid efforts
pm 2x 5k runs at 4 -4.10 pace

sat
am 4 hour bike in wicklow mountains loved the wind . overgeared 53 -17 to 53 12 into the wind 1x rock to rock rathfarnham climb 1x ennisskerries to gelncullen and 1 ennisskerries back to the rathfarnham downhill. so i guess overall 90 min of overgreaed work .
dave behind me shouting each time when i got a bit slower slower ( out of the 40 times or so he shouted he was only 2 twice wrong)

tough session but i would be lying if i was not happy with the bike progress in the last 2 weeks.

ps treadmill session
20 min warm up 8 min ( 3.3o min at 3,17 @2% 2 min 3.17 @1 2.30 at 3.08 @1
4min at 4.55
8 min ( 4 min at 3,14 @ 2 , 2.30min at 3.08 @1 1.30min at 3min k @1 ( i saw the stars at the end of those 8 min , was tough after this mornings workout but i realiced its the last 2 weeks before i turn 40 and i better finish my 30s well)

12 x30 sec at 3 min k @4 30 rest
25 min swim easy run home

sunday
am 3.30h bike bike main set 28 x kyperpass pole to pole at 53x12
had another session in mind but it worked out like this ....

pm 60 min swim
60 min run with a few fartlegs.

weight myself this morning and entering the green zone now, 78kg.
so should hit dutahlon nats with 77kg which would be spot on as planed.( it will be anybodies guess how well i will do there but it will be a good test anyhow and iam looking forward to it.

solid week and due to an ear infection last week that kept me awake twice till around 3 am. it was good to catch up a bit on sleep.

peter kern

am
70 or so min swiming farltlegs up and down . then dog leg, entered the pool and we did 15 x 100 in 1,23 off 1.40 enjoyed that until about 12 ... but always nice swimming with somebody

pm long run 1.45 a total struggle and i cut it short as legs were tired from weekend , i already knew that i overdid it at the weekend and the smart decison would have been to stop after 40 min ...
anyway at least i stoped 30 min earlier than planned ... but another silly decison in terms of wanting to run faster and in my profile speed is lacking a bit and endurance and strenght are pretty good.
a total junk session that did nothing good apart from digging a deeper hole.

tue
day off

wed
50 min swim am just as an recovery session

managaed to fall down the stairs the good thing was that the fritch was 2 meters away so ice was availble immediately... i usually slip on those stairs every 6 month or so but this time it was the first time i really hurt myself ( and i shell be more careful now ) was a bit worried about the elbow and the left hand at the same time really grateful that it ended only with a few bruises and a few ligaments a bit streched

pm intervals run felt not good at all cycling to the park and warm up ( nothing to do with the fall and the result form sat sun mon)
first interval a total desaster as i did not get anywhere . decided to try 1 more and went much better. did not feel fresh at all ( as usual after an day off) but matched previously run times and overall very happy with that session,as i did do my best.
at the same time it was not the plan not to be faster and from a coaching persective iam seriously pissed off and really need to take better care to hit the quality sessions better and train less until i do so. ( i guess this is the drawback having to sign up for an ironman race so early , now since i have paid this crazy amount i feel a bit more like to make sure that i get the endurance in when the goal was actually to get fast for the run till end of march .
8.39 h has been much more on my mind than it should be right now , and is a bit of a distractionto be honest, it should not even be on my mind at all as it dosnt mean anything really, at the same time either 8.39 on a fast day or whatevr it is on a slow day is most likely what got me back, as this was the time i wanted and still think i could have done 2005 in roth.and overall i feel iam a good bit further than i would have thought 4 month ago and apart from 5 k run pace i am happy.

anyway while i didnt wnat to set the world on fire in ennis, i would have wanted to do better as it looks like now. but one cant have it all ...At the same time iam itching to do an half Ironman distance race as i kind of feel ready for it. and thats a good thing.

thusday
am usual cylce and 6 kyper pass reps on way home

pm 1 hour turbo still sh..te ( but today more the effect from the fall as right hip a bit bruised, still greateful its not more serious

15 k run
and 20 min swim ( did not feel great but good enough to go back to swimmng

friday am
usual swim did not feel 100% and holding back but noticed hr dropped quite a bit for the same times for the first 200 s set, so thats fine with me . 400s i was holding back as paddles did not feel good 5.33 average and last 5 x200 where 2.40 average leading out . i guess since back from spain my 100 m times have come down 2-2,5 secs and for the next 6 weeks all i really want is to maintain the swim and really get the bike now started in earnest. ( gordo dosnt really know yet that he will play a part in this )


pm will be 2x 5 k runs.

peter kern

SAT
am 3.5 hour bike including 5 laps half im pace in phoneix park.
just about ok

pm
20 wu treadmil 8 min building from 3.25 to 3 min @2
various appox 35 sec fast at 3 min @-3-4 25 rest did not count them but i guess approx 18 en that worked of short and crisp
1 k swim


sunday
4.30 bike around the lakes
pm easy 10 k run

monday easy swim and decided to take evening off

tue 4.30 h bike climbing at solid efforts. ( felt recovered and full of beans )

pm easy 10 k

wed am easy 1 hour swim

pm run intervals

next 3 days will be short and crisp
then 3 days off for a Schnitzel , Weisswurst and Schauferle meat tour with some light running and 1 short interval run.
2 days easy
and then thursday friday sat with intervals
sunday race
3 days recovery
thats me updated till the end of the month.

pgibbo

Enjoy the break and best of luck in Ennis

peter kern

Bit of a mixed bag today but overall happy what I made out of it.
On the upside I managed to turn muscles around before the race . Not having sat on a tri bike and still with a stem that is a bit short had an impact and I was not feeling great after first test. Anyway not a problem here. So that is good .
I cought a bit of a virus while in Germany and I thought I got lucky and it would not have an impact and to be fair not even sure if it had but while not feeling tired it wasn't quite right ( could well be the taper as I walked a lot while away) and with not being best after first bike session had to make some adaptions. So we will see
And for my ego it would be better if it was a slight cold .

Apart from that I am pleased and did my own race ones I got dropped and raced controlled ( I think there was a 90% chance I would have totally blown up had I tried to stay where I wanted to be on the run.

The rest very uneventful ( apart from being called a prick when I told one guy to move to the left who was blocking me) Gained 10 places on the way back and enterd t2 in second.
2nd run ok and I went back to third place with 500 m to go after being in forth for 2.5 k
Would have wanted to be a good bit faster today but think I raced close to perfection today with what was there.
At the same time can't happy how I felt today and should have been in way better run shape ( with bike Iam ok as there is a clear upwards trend )
Good race and also thanks to ti officials being pragmatic and allowing disc wheel ( I was way more stable with disc than my spare wheel)

MD1983

well done P

peter kern

ta M
the good thing with the race approaching i had to pull the trigger on a bike. and an swim cycle run front wheel ;-0

pgibbo

Nice going Peter.

peter kern

pgibbo wrote: »

Nice going Peter.

i guess one day later I am a bit happier about it, looking at it from a bit more distance. What i realiced today was how much i actually enjoyed it, it's one thing enjoying something when it goes to plan , another when it dosnt go to plan, and despite feeling something is not right, I got myself into a zone where i just relaxed and focused totally on the now and just did what I could ,and this is positive for the longer races coming up, when even on a good day one has a few bad patches.
10 years ago on a day like yesterday I would have blown up mentally.

Dory Dory

^^^ With age comes wisdom, I suppose. Happy birthday a few days late.

MojoMaker

Great picture of you on TI's facebook page Peter, complete with sunglasses

peter kern

this is a every day swim week.

Monday solid long swim as i felt 80 min ( mix of recovery and getting back feeling for the water as not much swimmng last 10 days)


pm easy 8.5 k run ( i really should not run the day after a race but a mate asked if i wanted to go for a run and so i did )




tuesday
am swiming with tango 6x400 s main set one fs i think average 5.35 ( me with neo shorts) alternated padles an neo shorts average 5.25
good cool done


pm 40 min bike


wed 80 min swim 5x 800 steady pace

pm 25 bike 15k run main set 5.120 k in 18.30 2,56k 9.24
2.56 k 9.27 didnt think i would feel good but really enjoyed it still a bit of a cough but getting better now.

thursday
am usual bike

pm 80 min turbo 10 x 5 min at sunday race pace 30sec to 1 min rest .
12k run
Followed by 2 k swim


Friday is swimming different session than usual 2x400 in 5,30 of 6
5 x200 off 3.05 2.42 average 2x400 pull 5.04 and 5.27 5x 100 average 1.14 of 1.45 5 x 50 off 1 average 35.5 .
i guess today was the first time i could have gone sub 5 for 400 had i really wanted

next 4 days should see 500 k of cycling with some good intervals

peter kern

friday
pm overall 120 k bike, including 4 hours in park with kypeer pass intervals and dublin city course reps. as planned the thursday turbos session took the sting out of legs and i was suffering doing roleovers with the powerhouse. Spectacular bonk in the 2nd last interval and i was very luck to get some food from niamh and some food and drink from a super kind guy who was listening to our conversation.
funny i stood on the scales on thursday and had put on 1.5 kg in germany ( i know that and ergo did not touch sacle before the dua nats ;-) and I guess unconsciously had forgotten to have a proper breakfast in the monring after swim.
anyway all good but the plan was to lose the weight i gained in germany by end of next week.

sat
aquathon 1000m pretty close 14 min flat at half IM pace, the guy that let our swam way too slow for first 170 m and luckily just as i was to pass another guy passed and I was able to go nice and handy behind him ,with only 3 sprints when we passed people ( mental note do not do tumble turns the week before you do a pool try as every turn i had to force myslef not to tumble turn)

apart from no marshall as promised an un uneventful run at just under 3.30 min k pace marshalls were not ready for us and there was 2 guys that did the short race who said we cant turn left as this is a dead end...
anyway i got an extra 1k at sub 3 .30 pace in and all good
6 k run cool down
than 2 k steady swim ( warm up 8 k bike 3 k run 300 swim for race )

pm the fastest average speed and average power output of the weekend 120 k out just behind brittas bay with bon jovi. brilliant weahter and i got into a grove average speed just under 33k and a 10 min stop after turn around in brittas) the last 30 min were tough but i just loved that spin and the sun.
after some rest run 9 k 5 k steady 4 k sub 3.35 k pace




sunday
am 159 k another good session and i had to do 0 thinking as guide mark lead the session fast stuff with them was a good bit easier than with the powerhouse on friday but good enough to drop me a few times but apart from the intervals it was an steady enough pace.

pm 45 k recovery and coffee spin to shake legs out
8 k run ( well would be a bit optimistic to call that a run more and ironman shuffle
and 2.2 k swim

monday
am 10 k steady run

after the swim session 90 k bike today deco was the guide and again i had not to think. struggled on first howth climb and pretty much was in the hurt box for the rest of the day ( got dropped on last howth climb) 30k average to me felt a good bit harder today
but what a weather !!!!

pm swim 4.1 k, while suffering on the bike i was in the right head space today and brought that in to the swim did the same session as the guys this morning that did the full session, plus 200 m, this was the first time ever i swam faster and longer than the guys when on my own
100 m average 1,14 75s the only one i timed was 54.5 and the 50s were 34 average. 25s were a b.tch

evenning 15 k warm up on bike 11.5 k run 4 steady 1,5 built , 6 k at 3.55 ish pace 20 k bike cool down

another solid camp.
stats for last 5 days
650 k bike with as much intensity as i possibly could take
60-2 k run , 10 k sub 3.35 k pace 6 k sub 4 k pace and the rest apart form the ironman shuffle run nice and steady
swim 15.8 k or so with 8 k quality . a 12month 1k 400 100 50 pb amongst them

in hours thursday 4.5 friday 6 sat 7 sunday 8 monday 7 32.5 hours in 5 days.
overall it worked out very well.
and while i got smashed on friday by the powerhouse, sat hang on to the swimmer , got smashed sunday by mark and johnny and monday by deco and niall I really enjoyed the 5 days and feel i got the quality in that i wanted.
big thanks to all the guys that made the time pass by quicker .

It band cant be touched right now otherwise body was holding up well ( at least 1 hour body maintance a day )
well ... the shoulders were totally in bits after sundays am ride.

peter kern

tue
8 k easy run

wed
am 4k total 30x 100 10x off 135 10 x off 1.30 10 x1.35
not the best session as i wanst really in the mood to push myslef but solid enough and sufficently tired afterwards

pm run
25min bike wu and 25bike cd overall run session 20 k
5,260 18.32 5.260 k 18.27 2.560 9.11 v good weahter condition and a unusual wind , a pleasure to be out there "confi"(legs not breathing) at the pace but 3 seconds a k too slow ( i guess its now 5 or 6 weeks i keep complaining aobut those 3 seconds ;-) but yesterday i was just not fluid enough and ground contact time too long and too much breaking going on ( a little blister part of the issue and stomach far from being confi )
casio told me she needs 24 hours recovery ;-)


stayed 10 min longer in bed this morning arrived at work 2 min earlier commuted on schweinstein and it was fun.on why home 10 x kyperpass reps.

pm easy cycle easy run


friday
swim motivation was low this morning so not too much happening apart from 2 decent 400 intervlas and 2 x 200 intervals an steady enough session ( the first time in a long time my arms where tired and i was almost thinking doing kick drills ;-) still body losened up during the swim and i got faster towards the end.

peter kern

Friday pm long run 2 hours

Sat am 3.5 hour bike quite easy and did not really mind a few techniqual issues .

Pm 8 k run

Sun am 60 k tt I got messages since Thursday how bad the weather would be , but as tango said with a dry voice .... It can rain on race day....
When people don't turn up because of the weather in Ireland I get depressed. It was certainly not the best day but with the knowledge that I was almost overheating in ennis and wearing more gear I was sure it would be grand . I struggled to get into a grove as I could not shake of my dissapointment that people dont understand that this why some people complain about bad weather on race day and others don't ( it's part of the game to race in bad weather )
Anyway first 10 k in 13.38 2nd 10 k 19.01 third 13.31 4th 18.56 5th 13.27 6th 1845 are the rough Casio splits and overal1.37 30
Roundwood suggarlough circuit
It was windy and roads were wet but I had some spells of sun and only the last 2 min the rain started I was in the car 9o sec after the tt ( and said to my driver this is one of the few times I am happy to be in a car)
A good session and I feel Iam very much on track on the bike and I hope that some high end work will get a bit more power I am good at holding speed but struggle to accelerate and times with the wind behind me should have been 30 sec faster


Pm 10 k run. This time in the sun shine

Mon am swim
75 min in the water ie not a good session but got some work done. And this week wed and Friday are key sessions I want to hit

sconhome

I'm kinda surprised that the (lack of) actions from other people affected your groove Peter.

peter kern

AKW wrote: »

I'm kinda surprised that the (lack of) actions from other people affected your groove Peter.

i have many weaknesses ... It does makes me depressed when i see athletes underachieving and I almost quit coaching because of this last year. I thought i get more relaxed if i train again myself , as i kind of thought because i havent done the performance i want, iam angry and project it on other people, but it hasnt changed.
When i decided to not quit coaching last year, as i love it in a way, I said i become more relaxed with social atheltes and i think i have improved as many of those people tell me i have become soft ...
At the same time most of the good coaches i have seen have this behavior even more pronounced, so I also see it as a good thing, too ...

but yes,for myself, until I really learn to switch off and be totally in the zone when I need to be, i wont be focused enough to do an Ironman to the best of my ability and this is the thing i am working on most right now ( henceforth treadmil runs which i totally hate but are a great tool for me to stay focused ) and in the third lap y 'day i did ok ( better late than never) .

but yes we could almost say my first 2 laps were junk miles as i could have done better ;-)

sconhome

Thank you Peter, that is very open of you.

peter kern

mon
am 60 easy swim

pm 2 hour run with some .4.10 k pace and other fartlegs



tue
pm 1.30 bike , 55 min oly distance intensity.

wed am
80 min steady swim

pm usual bike 21 k run 3 x 5.12k 18,23 18.22 18.15 ( all slight negative split ) really enjoyed the last rep and if i can hold 4 reps in 2 weeks time at that pace i want complain about my run as much .

thursday usual am bike fast on way out easy on way back

pm recovery session.

overall all good

peter kern

friday
am
swam without being there tangoand dave ( counting) doing all the work for me. ( out off 6 200s i did 4x250m and 1x150 after tango left )

run to work and back 10 k

sat
new record , i guess , I spend 8 hours in my cycle shorts before i left the house finally at 3 .30 pm ( on the up side i got loads of stuff done )
3 fast laps in the park and 15en kyperpass reps all in all 3 hours
10 k run of the bike
and 1 k swim


sun
4 hours bike first 40 min tt pace
than easy 1 hill rep where i got destroyed by the powerhouse ( and i did not do to badly)
10 k of the bike

pm
run 3 k warm up 30 min at various speeds starting at 3.40 finishing at 3kpace roughly 2.30 on 3o sec off .
very happy with that session did not really want to do it (stating at 7.45pm ) but hit it much better and running well till 3.07k pace

this was a tough 8 days but i guess my best intensity 8 days in a long time and still 100 kish (likley 95-6k) running and 360 k ish cycling done sunday to sunday . I know I am on the edge but still on the right side of if , but have to be careful this week.
had to put down my runners this week as i run trough the hard rubber of it (first time ever i really wanted a pair of runners again and i am ashamed to say its a company i really dislike as they support many dopers and seem to think its fine)

mon am 80 min swim some good times 5x 100 sub 1.14

peter kern

so we tipped over the edge and rest will be taken for noext 48 hours.

monday pm long run stopped running after 1.45 h as right ankle did not feel 100 % ( seems fine again so i think the precaution was agood thing as right now i can really only lose and undo a lot of work.


tue pm brilliant turbo session i worked nicely into it and was very pleased with the result of that 5x30 20 20 4x4

pm easy bike 30 min

Wed is swimming didn't feel it abandoned the site after 3 reps did a slight cool down and home and felt worse as day progressed . its a mix of intensive training and being underdressed last sunday on the bike causing this resulting in slight cold . Nothing to worry as I knew i was on the edge and a few days easy will be good and i did get in a good turbo which is the main goal right now.

Kurt Godel

When do you start in the OW Peter?

peter kern

still chipping away with light recovery sessions.


and i guess people that will race tris in May should start to acclimatize for the open water now ( and its quite posible to swim for skinny people in the open water as we see inthe water temp thread and one of the guys is around 10 % bodyfat and spend 10 min in water without a wetsuit already. I am not too bothered myself yet and will wait until healthy.but will have certainly done 6 decent openwater swims before may 17th.

zico10

How do you see swimming in cold Irish seas prepares you for warm, fresh water and possibly a non-wetsuit central European race?

The non-wetsuit is probably less likely for May 17th, but I think for most people following this log who are racing IM, this is the reality for them.

peter kern

zico10 wrote: »

How do you see swimming in cold Irish seas prepares you for warm, fresh water and possibly a non-wetsuit central European race?

The non-wetsuit is probably less likely for May 17th, but I think for most people following this log who are racing IM, this is the reality for them.

2 years ago swim was cancelled in austria as too cold ;-) there is 0 chance of a no wetsuit swim. even barcelon 70.3 has a 0 chance of a no wetsuit swim.
besides i dodnt think there have a black line and ropes in an open water tri regardless wetsuit or non wetsuit.
oveall i think ironman mallorca was the only non wetsuit race in europe last year
i also dodnt think any european race has been non wetsuit twice in a row ( mallorca likley as a very sheltered place and shallow water

btw 2 open water swims will be at the race venue as i will camp right beside the lake ;-)

zico10

Of course no black lines or ropes makes swimming OW entirely different to pool swimming. That's one reason to start open water swimming, but you were talking about acclimatisation a few posts back. I agree if racing in Ireland in May, then it would be a good idea to be swimming OW sooner rather than later.
But I'm guessing many people following your log, with intentions of doing an IM, are thinking of European races. Whether wetsuit or non-wetsuit, the water at these races will still be a lot warmer than the water in Ireland.
I'm just curious, do you see it as important to get used to swimming in cold water if your A-goal for the year is IM Austria, Nice, Frankfurt, etc.?
Someone who was racing Roth last year said why would he need to freeze his balls off in Seapoint in May, when it was going to be nothing like the conditions he'd have to deal with in Germany. He had a point surely? There's better uses of your time than driving for one hour to go for a 10 minute dip in The Irish Sea, take 20 minutes to get dressed again and then another 20 to warm up again.

Mr Tango

zico10 wrote: »

Of course no black lines or ropes makes swimming OW entirely different to pool swimming. That's one reason to start open water swimming, but you were talking about acclimatisation a few posts back. I agree if racing in Ireland in May, then it would be a good idea to be swimming OW sooner rather than later.
But I'm guessing many people following your log, with intentions of doing an IM, are thinking of European races. Whether wetsuit or non-wetsuit, the water at these races will still be a lot warmer than the water in Ireland.
I'm just curious, do you see it as important to get used to swimming in cold water if your A-goal for the year is IM Austria, Nice, Frankfurt, etc.?
Someone who was racing Roth last year said why would he need to freeze his balls off in Seapoint in May, when it was going to be nothing like the conditions he'd have to deal with in Germany. He had a point surely? There's better uses of your time than driving for one hour to go for a 10 minute dip in The Irish Sea, take 20 minutes to get dressed again and then another 20 to warm up again.

I only ever swim open water in a race. Too cold in Ireland and to much hassle!. I still fare alright in the races tho

zico10

Mr Tango wrote: »

I only ever swim open water in a race. Too cold in Ireland and to much hassle!. I still fare alright in the races tho

You fare far more than alright, and I could spend a lifetime trying and I still wouldn't match your times, but I fear Peter's next post is going to say this is why the two of you are so close to each other coming out of the water, but by his own admission he has to bust a lung to keep up with you in the pool.

peter kern

i know a guy who has not run for 3 years ( maybe has run 10 times in 3 years ) and still would run 10 k in 36 min ( used to be a 30.20 10 k ) for most 36min would be brill to run for 10 k ,but i dont think many would advocate to a 43 min 10 k runner not to run for 3 years to run 10 k in 36 min...

so what iam saying is if somebody does ok, that dosnt have to mean it s good for everybody .

before i go more into this this is something for some to read ;-)
as some people can explain this much better than i can.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=5517934;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

tango is sam gyde (syg) syg is one of the best age groupers in ironman sam is very good and uses power cranks ( his vo2 is 80 ) . most studies would say powercranks not to work yet he is still very good ( to be fair one the best over 40 years old ironman in the world .
anyway the above link is the usual powercrank discussion re discused for the 1001th time. he is sponsored by them ( and there is also no realy study that says they make you slower ....)
but if one was to say sam is good becasue of using powercanrks I would certainly laugh ( but they might very well work for him and he does mention the placebo effect as well )
but its many little pieces that make the full picture for him to be very good .

tango is good , could he be better ( yes) but he is already good enough in the water for his ambitons and time available. but that dosnt mena that i would think that a poor swimmer should do the same.( and i dodnt think lazy triatheltes read my blog zico, as i am sure i have pissed them off long ago)



dont get me wrong one can very easily make the argument against open water swimming ( and as i said iam not to bothered about it too myslef
at the same time i prefer open water swimming vs pool swimming.

tango has an incredible awareness and pacing in the pool which most people dont have ( i also guess he has more swim ks than anybody on boards done in his child years ).


what i am trying to suggest here, is that it does help to think through an argument further than x does this and x is good so this must work for y . or x uses this wetsuit so i buy the same wetsuit.
at the same time there is pyhsiological principles that are the same fome beginner to pro, and i do not say we are unique snowflakes

it is hard to single out 1 thing and say x leads to z ...
( and you know from your wetsuit testing that there is stuff i could predict and there is stuff i dodnt understand so its really not that easy )


let us use yourself.... its the same with you doing a training marathon before a marathon ,many people told you it would not work some said its wrong , for you it did work, and why it works for you is that you are strong , never get injured and train a lot and have a stubborn mind . most other people would be f...ed after it .
so I would not not tell an guy that gets injured all the time to run a traings marathon before a marathon ( heck i would tell him to actually do not run a marathon if you are a triathelte)
at the same time long runs are an imperative for an marathon.

is that training marathon the reason the reason you run a good marathon , no, it is not really,its a little piece in the puzzle. Has it made you 1 or 2 min better , we dodnt really know but chances are good it worked for you .
the reason you did well it it that you overall trained well for it and have run many years (and have some talent for it and you have a light frame ) had you not done the marathon pre race would not have done much difference , had you done less miles might have done little difference , had you done less tempo it might have done little diffence,etc same for your strides for your intervals for your recovery runs etc etc
BUT had you done less of all of this THAT would have made a difference ( unless you had cycled much more ) also had you not run many years before you would not have come close to the time .
and you see you are not runing much slower this year with less miles ...

the same we can do with open water swimming its not the only one thing that makes people good but most triathletes are really bad swimmers and many even worse open water swimmers.
likewise most triathletes would not do so well in criteriums despite being faster than a lot of a3 roadies in a tt ) -
like in a crit open water swimming is about being at the right place at the right time and save as much energy ( for the sprint in a crit or the final breakaway, or for the bike in a tri ) its often not the fastest that wins but the ones that race the best on the day ( and of course the fast once that read a race well are the onece the win most often)

i guess most people that read this blog would fall into this category and are not confortable being , hit in the open water being pushed around,freak out if they cant see the bottom of the pool ( you would be suprised how many people have that issue ) swim incredibly bad lines in races
so for many there is easy time to be gainned in an half ironman swim to practise in this environmnet ( and yes i have seen people to that struggle with sighitng in Athy.... and a few weeks before the race it CAN be beneficial to train that. it can be a low hanging fruit for many ( and useless for some)

zico you think aoubt 1 thing water temp , but you forget aobut group drafting sighting feelling conforable in the open water etc .
when i say acclamatise i need usually 1-2 session at the begining of the seasion to get used to the cold open water and if i do it now, than i will do good 45-60min sessions when i need them ( and since i have an open water base i need by far less open water swims to feel conforable in a mass start environment than people that have never learned it )


one can say i dont like it , so i dodnt do it
likewise one can say i hate long bike rides in the cold so i dodnt do them ...( and sometimes it can be smart not to do a session in the cold ....and not to swim in the cold water ...)
but my goal is to podium in my age group in austria and if i dodnt do the training somebody else will do it ....

i dodnt think its tangos goal to podium in his age group at the ironman in austria and given his run he naturally is much better of focusing more on his run and bike , as his time is limited having kids. the swim is really not the problem for a guy that has swam more miles in his live a than you will swim until you hit 50 if you keep swimmng as you do ( coincidentaly this is why a lot of people dont like that athletes who used certain drugs to return to the sport after a ban as they belive using those drugs has an long term effect even if they are clean now and give and unfair advantage )

i do agree one has to think how practical it is to go to the sea.
but one can also combine it , i often cycle out to seapoint swim and then continue with my bikes session ( wetsuit on back also strengthens my shoulder and makes it easier for me to hold aero posiotn in a race when i dodnt have something on my back.or I leave it at seapoint and pick it up on way home ( i have a 50 euro neo for this and i would not be to worried if it gets stolen ) time cost pretty much 0 and its a huge difference going for a 4 hour bike ride and doing the 4 hour bike ride after 1 hour in the open water . ( and you would very well know how you felt after your last 4 k swim last year -

and lets remember i did say that people who race in MAY should hit the open water now-and i think we would agree that you would not have cycled well after that 4 k swim in july or whenever it was last year ;-). i am pretty sure tango would have felt quite well after that swim ... would he have won that 4k race no becasue there is people that are as talented as him that swim more and more open water ...

i am sure i have lost quite a few so far but thats my 2 cents
as wise coach once said if i get 8 out of 10 decisons right iam doing fantactically well. if its 5 out of 10 its still good enough.


if you want to discuss it further guys please open a new thread
I know i worte all this sh,,t but i guess at the end it comes down to, train how you race ,( and the closer you come to a race the more specific you train for it )
if you want to race well you have to go through many more uncomfortable situations (and you have to train your weakness)., than somebody that wants to race ok and if you just want to tick the box you have to do v little do finish an ironman (or an open water swim)
so dodnt mind me.

ps before an summer ironman I would do 3.8k tts in the nac with a wetsuit and if its a hot year also without a wetsuit ....
and then i would not cry before a race whatever happens wetsuit or no wetsuit. and if it is a misserable rainy day i would remember i have also done days where my muscles where stiff comming out of the water and konw how that feels but know how to deal with it
( and at the end of the day all this can be useless if my brain gives in ;-)