NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

bk

mass_debater wrote: »

What if getting to everyone was going to take many years?

Honestly, I think we would still be better biting the bullet and just ploughing ahead with FTTH. It wouldn't take more then 5 years anyway.

The problem with using wireless first is that even it will take a two or more years anyway and when done the government, being the government will simply say job done, stop complaining now and will likely leave people stuck on 30Mb/s wireless for the next 10 years until the complaints get loud enough again.

If the government go for an intermediate plan, I've zero confidence that they will continue with the long term plan, instead putting it off for as long as possible.

murphaph

I honestly can't see rolling out a complete replacement of copper in rural areas as being complete in 5 years. It's a mammoth task.

mass_debater

murphaph wrote: »

I honestly can't see rolling out a complete replacement of copper in rural areas as being complete in 5 years. It's a mammoth task.

Yeah, more like 10-15 IMO

rob808

mass_debater wrote: »

Yeah, more like 10-15 IMO

It be worth it in the end,fixed wireless isn't the answer short term yes but long term no there just throwing away tax payer money instead of just doing it right which is FTTH I say 10 years Max.

KOR101

rob808 wrote: »

It be worth it in the end,fixed wireless isn't the answer short term yes but long term no there just throwing away tax payer money instead of just doing it right which is FTTH I say 10 years Max.

I suppose, given that the plan has only ever had a 30mbit objective, the hope would be that when they run the numbers, it is actually cheaper to do FTTH than wireless, even in the short run. Is there any chance of that?

bk

KOR101 wrote: »

I suppose, given that the plan has only ever had a 30mbit objective, the hope would be that when they run the numbers, it is actually cheaper to do FTTH than wireless, even in the short run. Is there any chance of that?

Actually that is what Eircoms report into the issue found.

While it might not be quiet as cheap up front (capex), the ongoing operating costs (opex) of FTTH are much lower then wireless.

With wireless you have to build towers, pay for the rent of the land they sit on, power them, etc. This all gets expensive very fast.

KOR101

Segment on RTE's Monday Today With Sean O'Rourke. It begins with some interviews with people in Quin, Co. Clare. Then Alex White is interviewed.

Nothing particularly new. The pessimism in Quin is exactly what I find in Kerry. People have been really scarred by their experience to date. The pessimism about Eircom's FTTC programme (completely unjustified I think) is also something I hear a lot.

Starts at about 1:16

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/today-with-sean-o-rourke/programmes/2015/0323/689074-today-with-sean-o-rourke-monday-23-march-2015/

Johnboy1951

Thanks for that link.

So only going out to tender at the end of this year ... 2015

They hope to have an agreement in place with some provider/s to begin roll out By June 2016

It is estimated to be a five year roll out ... so by June 2021 everyone should have 'high speed broadband' (whatever that might mean).

Min White expects the roll out to complete by the end of 2020

This 5 year roll out is to provide broadband to some 30% of the population who are spread across 96% of the land area.

I guess all of us outside the 'commercially provided areas' will just have to sit back and wait for a long time yet.

KOR101

On reflection, the mention of having €70m of committed funds already is interesting. A 5-year plan at €70 a year adds up to the €355m that Adrian Weckler referred to.

Implies maybe a degree of penny pinching that doesn't augur well. Best if it goes to a single contractor, who may be driven to implement FTTH for purely commercial reasons.

rob808

KOR101 wrote: »

On reflection, the mention of having €70m of committed funds already is interesting. A 5-year plan at €70 a year adds up to the €355m that Adrian Weckler referred to.

Implies maybe a degree of penny pinching that doesn't augur well. Best if it goes to a single contractor, who may be driven to implement FTTH for purely commercial reasons.

Yea a single contractor would be best two would be bad and 355m are they kidding 512m would do it and they wouldn't have to keep revisiting it.

dbit

Will ESB voda make they're backhaul available to projects like B4rn do you think? Hell even if it didn't improve my connection directly, I would still be interested in the project from start to finish purely from an interest and learning point of view .

DBIT is available to travel to any part of Ireland to get involved with this type of stuff . I may experience callouses as my hands have been on keyboards my entire working life .

frozenfrozen

There should just be a 0% tax for 10 years to whatever company covers the whole country in fibre first, and we could see how fast 'not economically viable' goes out the window

dbit

Cheers Ed im faping away to these right now :-https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=b4rn
locals doing the splices with splice kits this is bloody unreal. ducts junction boxes the lot , why are we so bloody passive !

frozenfrozen

b4rn looks ****ing great. can we do this please?

dbit

frozenfrozen wrote: »

b4rn looks ****ing great. can we do this please?

Rally all your farmers get an OS map of your area look at the who when and where. If you do get it off the ground gimme a shout and ill shovel like a mad whore.

KOR101

If less than FTTH, how about an argument that the NBP may well slow down fibre rollout because the subsidies slow down the FTTH land grab that looks like it's just started.

ItHurtsWhenIP

frozenfrozen wrote: »

b4rn looks ****ing great. can we do this please?

dbit wrote: »

Rally all your farmers get an OS map of your area look at the who when and where. If you do get it off the ground gimme a shout and ill shovel like a mad whore.

I met Barry Forde of B4RN at a conference yesterday. They're set-up is incredible and it's not costing them the earth at all. When they had 350 subscribers they were meeting their expenses (break even). When they had 500 (I think) they were paying back the principle on their loans. When they got 1200 they were able to pay a staff of up to 7.

They now have 1500 customers!!! :eek: It only costs them £6.86 to roll out a meter of fibre. :eek::eek: They only provide Gigabit connectivity ... because it would cost them more to have to throttle a customers connection. :eek::eek::eek:

They have dual diversely routed trunks running into an IX in Manchester. They're looking at running some north to Scotland in case ISIS nukes the Mancunians!

I could go on, but I don't want the mods to beat me up for being so far OT it hurts.

dbit

LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE ! yes mods will go nuts as this is veering offroad very quickly. IT is all very relative in terms of seeing the ordinary man terminate the fiber somehow i dont think ESB would let us loose on the backhauls.

MBSnr

MBSnr wrote: »

OK so it's not like for like and perhaps they are all unpaid volunteers (I don't know) but funny how we are told it'll cost multiple thousands to lay fibre to one rural home here...

Surely someone's maths doesn't add up here.

This is the sort of constructive project benefitting the local community that a body such as Macra na Feirme could get its members involved in....

tsue921i8wljb3

MBSnr wrote: »

OK so it's not like for like and perhaps they are all unpaid volunteers (I don't know) but funny how we are told it'll cost x multiple thousands to lay fibre to one rural home here...

Surely someone's maths doesn't add up here.

It's in no way comparable to a commercial rollout. They are indeed using some volunteer labour. It is also predicated on the goodwill of landowners who allow access to their property. However it is a remarkable project and deserves massive praise.

MBSnr

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

It's in no way comparable to a commercial rollout. They are indeed using some volunteer labour. It is also predicated on the goodwill of landowners who allow access to their property. However it is a remarkable project and deserves massive praise.

I deleted my post as it was badly worded.. but I wasn't quick enough! Anyhow if these guys can do it at this price per metre that's very impressive. I'd love to think it could be the same here but I doubt it. Lots of small landholders to negotiate with to start....

MajesticDonkey

Villain wrote: »

A lot of the rural wireless setups are in place, e.g. there are 5 in my area outside Carlow

But are subscribers gettting 30 Mbps+?

Villain

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

But are subscribers gettting 30 Mbps+?

They can if they are willing to pay for it.

MajesticDonkey

Villain wrote: »

They can if they are willing to pay for it.

Surprising, to be honest. First I've heard of WISPs offering that kind of speed. Chances are it's not consistent though, as in at peak times?

tsue921i8wljb3

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Surprising, to be honest. First I've heard of WISPs offering that kind of speed. Chances are it's not consistent though, as in at peak times?

Digiweb's Metro product has been offering 30/1 for several years. I agree with you though on the peak time speed. My own 3Mb Imagine wireless connection slows down markedly at peak times. I have a Sam Knows box and over the past year the average peak time speed has never been above 2Mb.

Villain

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Surprising, to be honest. First I've heard of WISPs offering that kind of speed. Chances are it's not consistent though, as in at peak times?

As I say if you are willing to pay for it, contention ranges from 20 to 1 and 4 to 1

murphaph

Gonzo wrote: »

I have to agree as much as I want a decent fibre network in place throughout rural Ireland, even if it's gonna take the next 10 years, I'd rather wait 10 years for it then have a wireless service which would be nowhere nearly as good.

Yeah but you have a 10Mbps ADSL connection right now. If you had 3G or no broadband whatsoever you might feel differently about the role fixed wireless can play as an interim solution.

KOR101

Villain wrote: »

They can if they are willing to pay for it.

Not where I am.

http://www.sccbroadband.ie/business-broadband/

And. those are the business packages.

mass_debater

What's holding WISPs back is having to link for miles and miles to get access to fibre backhaul, then you have Comreg treating them as a cash cow. The annual fee for a licensed link should be about 50 quid like it is in the UK, instead Comreg are milking them dry demanding over a grand each so WISPs end up using unlicensed frequencies.

bk

Here is the problem if WISPs are allowed get subsidy movie from the NBP.

Ok so your town manages to get just about 30Mb/s and you are very happy.

But will you be happy when the guys in the next town over get 1Gb/s FTTH?

What about 10 years from now when you are still stuck on the same 30Mb/s WISP as they used up all the subsidy money to bring service to your town, leaving non available for the FTTH providers now making it uneconomic to service your area.

Trust me this is exactly what will happen if you leave WISPs on the NBP scheme.