NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

pegasus1

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

I'm unsure as to why speeding up the 4G rollout across the country is a bad thing. Whatever way we look at it, it's going to be at least 5-8 years before the NBP is complete and we need something in the mean time. 4G is not the worst in the world, and will be quicker than the connections many people have currently.

Because like 3G it might be a stopgap but it also might put the Khyber on the NBP as it stands..oh look, some people can get 40 meg download...lets stop the wasteful NBP..and sure I have no use of it...for I am a Farmer etc. that is now a politician, and I know whats best for the country...now where did my sheep go?

KOR101

Top of the head stuff really......

"We need to fast track 4G broadband in the short term," said Naughten. "It would at least provide a short term solution until the longer term solution is in place. I am putting a proposal to government. Hopefully we can get some momentum on foot of that." Any state-ordered rollout of 4G across rural areas of the country would require fast-tracked planning permissions for extra masts and could require a change to existing mobile licenses. Legal telecoms experts have warned that such measures were unlikely to happen without significant due process.

http://www.independent.ie/business/briefs-tds-demand-action-on-broadband-34685471.html

Govt draft document

On broadband, all the agencies currently involved in the sector would be consolidated into a single agency with a view to seeing 85% of premises having high speed connectivity within two years.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0505/786383-programme-for-govt-document/

BandMember

I swear........if we end up with 4G as part of or instead of a proper NBP........... :mad::mad::mad::mad:

KOR101

Relevant stuff (such as it is) on pages 48 and 49....

https://www.scribd.com/doc/311631772/Programme-for-Partnership-document-agreed-between-Fine-Gael-and-Independents#fullscreen

ED E

This and Healy Rae have me convinced you have to have an IQ under 70 to become a TD (well, we'll exempt Vradker).

BandMember

ED E wrote: »

This and Healy Rae have me convinced you have to have an IQ under 70 to become a TD (well, we'll exempt Vradker).

What are you on about? Sure Varadkar is one of the biggest spoofers in the Dáil! Great man for the media friendly quotes but has achieved nothing in either of his Ministries and taken absolutely no responsibility for anything. The media love him and will campaign for him to take over FG but he'll eventually be found out.

I'll stop there because I don't want to derail the thread, but you're right about Healy Rae.

legocrazy505

KOR101 wrote: »

Relevant stuff (such as it is) on pages 48 and 49....

https://www.scribd.com/doc/311631772/Programme-for-Partnership-document-agreed-between-Fine-Gael-and-Independents#fullscreen

Ironically my broadband is too slow to load this in a reasonable amount of time.

Taskforce this taskforce that. The problem with councils helping is exchanges don't follow county lines. In my case Limerick would have to help rather than Tipperary.

They couldn't have spent long agreeing to this either since it changes hardly anything besides more wastes of resources in establishing taskforces to "help".

frozenfrozen

I hate this waste of resources. Just ****ing trench some cables. Pay someone 50 million to map where the cables go. 300 million on cables. 1 bn on people to install them.

NEXT

daraghwal

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I hate this waste of resources. Just ****ing trench some cables. Pay someone 50 million to map where the cables go. 300 million on cables. 1 bn on people to install them.

NEXT

Why does our government have to make everything so f**king awkward!!!

marno21

BandMember wrote: »

What are you on about? Sure Varadkar is one of the biggest spoofers in the Dáil! Great man for the media friendly quotes but has achieved nothing in either of his Ministries and taken absolutely no responsibility for anything. The media love him and will campaign for him to take over FG but he'll eventually be found out.

I'll stop there because I don't want to derail the thread, but you're right about Healy Rae.

Varadkar is as full of ****e as the rest of them.

It just so happens that several others are outdoing him at the minute.

ED E

Way OT but the comment was based on the fact that he has an MD in front of his name nothing else...

Now back to broadband (or lack thereof)!

corsav6

Enjoying a solid 4mb connection here over wisp, its a different story however if anyone else does anything online. Netflix runs perfect but browsing becomes unreliable and YouTube will just about load the homepage never mind play vids.
The service is completely unlimited and works 95% of the time, drops are infrequent and usually are sorted within the hour.
Tbh we're lucky as I know a few people on unreliable 3g connections with no other options, but a small increase in speeds would be nice, even 8mb would be grand.
We're living 4 miles from our local exchange so the only way to find out if Eir broadband works is to order a phone line on contract and then test the line, if broadband isn't available then we're still stuck on contract with the phone line.
Eir fibre will stop about 1 mile from our house when completed, well according to their map so I'm hoping our wisp provider can take advantage and increase our speed.
Either way it's the not knowing that's the real pita. For now we can survive on our 4mb connection, but as everyone knows that if even 1 of our neighbours decides to use the same service then our connection could severely degrade.

SoupyNorman

corsav6 wrote: »

Enjoying a solid 4mb connection here over wisp, its a different story however if anyone else does anything online. Netflix runs perfect but browsing becomes unreliable and YouTube will just about load the homepage never mind play vids.
The service is completely unlimited and works 95% of the time, drops are infrequent and usually are sorted within the hour.
Tbh we're lucky as I know a few people on unreliable 3g connections with no other options, but a small increase in speeds would be nice, even 8mb would be grand.
We're living 4 miles from our local exchange so the only way to find out if Eir broadband works is to order a phone line on contract and then test the line, if broadband isn't available then we're still stuck on contract with the phone line.
Eir fibre will stop about 1 mile from our house when completed, well according to their map so I'm hoping our wisp provider can take advantage and increase our speed.
Either way it's the not knowing that's the real pita. For now we can survive on our 4mb connection, but as everyone knows that if even 1 of our neighbours decides to use the same service then our connection could severely degrade.

Same here for the most part. Packed up and moved out of Dublin last year, have a great house and a lovely piece of land now HOWEVER one of the biggest trade offs was leaving behind my 200mb connection. I managed to find a WISP provider that had a data cap that wasn’t a total joke (300gb) but their max speed is 5mb down and I have to say living on a 5mb line has been fine. I can game, Netflix and downloading sizable files just takes a bit of pre-planning. However In this day and age, in this 1st world (very small) country I cant believe I’m justifying €50 a month for a 5mb connection.

It is what it is as they say, funnily enough I called my ISP yesterday who told me they are upgrading their equipment currently so will be in a position to offer faster speeds later in the summer. I also called Eir who said ‘We cannot provide BB in your area, Goodbye’.

ED E

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Same here for the most part. Packed up and moved out of Dublin last year, have a great house and a lovely piece of land now .... In this day and age, in this 1st world (very small) country I cant believe I’m justifying €50 a month for a 5mb connection.

That was the decision you made, you traded up for bigger and slower....

SoupyNorman

ED E wrote: »

That was the decision you made, you traded up for bigger and slower....

Yes, I'm fully aware of my decision but it's beyond comprehension that you should be penalized for wanted to live 2 km outside of a town.

oscarBravo

ED E wrote: »

That was the decision you made, you traded up for bigger and slower....

Ugh, that really gets old. I wonder how urban dwellers would react if, every time they complained about violent crime, they were told that it's their own fault for wanting to live where they can get decent broadband.

legocrazy505

oscarBravo wrote: »

ED E wrote: »

That was the decision you made, you traded up for bigger and slower....

Ugh, that really gets old. I wonder how urban dwellers would react if, every time they complained about violent crime, they were told that it's their own fault for wanting to live where they can get decent broadband.

SoupyNorman wrote: »

ED E wrote: »

That was the decision you made, you traded up for bigger and slower....

Yes, I'm fully aware of my decision but it's beyond comprehension that you should be penalized for wanted to live 2 km outside of a town.

I really don't get why some people make this assumption that rural should equal nothing. Again 2km outside a town is not rural, rural is a few houses in the middle of nowhere with no village or town for km. You know what annoys me even more is, 1km out from a sizable village and we and everyone in the village get nothing from Eir but promises while actual rural houses at least 8km out from us are on blue lines. I really get sick of people who call rural being near a village or town when it isn't by Irish or even UK standards.

bk

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Yes, I'm fully aware of my decision but it's beyond comprehension that you should be penalized for wanted to live 2 km outside of a town.

In Germany you wouldn't be allowed to build a house more then 2km from a town or village as it simply isn't sustainable.

bk

legocrazy505 wrote: »

I really don't get why some people make this assumption that rural should equal nothing. Again 2km outside a town is not rural, rural is a few houses in the middle of nowhere with no village or town for km. You know what annoys me even more is, 1km out from a sizable village and we and everyone in the village get nothing from Eir but promises while actual rural houses at least 8km out from us are on blue lines. I really get sick of people who call rural being near a village or town when it isn't by Irish or even UK standards.

Anything 1km outside a village is absolutely rural. Again in Germany and most other EU countries you aren't even allowed to build more then 1km from a village due to it not being sustainable.

It just costs far too much money to deliver infrastructure and services to people who live in one off houses more then 1km from a village.

legocrazy505

bk wrote: »

legocrazy505 wrote: »

I really don't get why some people make this assumption that rural should equal nothing. Again 2km outside a town is not rural, rural is a few houses in the middle of nowhere with no village or town for km. You know what annoys me even more is, 1km out from a sizable village and we and everyone in the village get nothing from Eir but promises while actual rural houses at least 8km out from us are on blue lines. I really get sick of people who call rural being near a village or town when it isn't by Irish or even UK standards.

Anything 1km outside a village is absolutely rural. Again in Germany and most other EU countries you aren't even allowed to build more then 1km from a village due to it not being sustainable.

I'm sorry but when I can look out a window and see a hotel and national road and the village lights with the naked eye that's not rural. You can't use the German definition of rural for Ireland. Making assumptions based on everyone's position is completely bull**** way of complaining about the NBP. I live on a road where there's a string of houses running all right next to it (besides one house who is the farmer of course they want to live way off the road). The Eir lines running right next to the road. They don't go off into fields. Explain to me how we aren't sustainable yet the few houses way out from the exchange are down for FTTH?

Now you've changed your mind again? So do you have a definition for rural? 2km? 1km? Now more than 1km? Make your mind up.

The problem with this rubbish is we'd be served reasonably well by a cabinet in the village that would get us somewhere better than 1mbps down and .2mbps up. 1km isn't unsustainable to at least provide FTTC speeds to. "Rural" people aren't asking to get better services over urban areas, that's unreasonable but we should all at least get a service capable of a typical 2016 internet user's demands.

ED E

legocrazy505 wrote: »

The problem with this rubbish is we'd be served reasonably well by a cabinet in the village that would get us somewhere better than 1mbps down and .2mbps up. 1km isn't unsustainable to at least provide FTTC speeds to. "Rural" people aren't asking to get better services over urban areas, that's unreasonable but we should all at least get a service capable of a typical 2016 internet user's demands.

Eir would love to offer it, if you'd pay for it. If a VDSL cab can operate at €50/mo per sub in Waterford say then out in a small village that price would rise to €120/mo per sub or more. Nobody will pay that so no operators have rolled out to there.

We can make the comparison to Germany. VDSL is VDSL. ADSL is ADSL. FTTH is FTTH. Just because its called Munster not Bavaria doesnt change the technology or physics.

pegasus1

ED E wrote: »

Eir would love to offer it, if you'd pay for it. If a VDSL cab can operate at €50/mo per sub in Waterford say then out in a small village that price would rise to €120/mo per sub or more. Nobody will pay that so no operators have rolled out to there.

We can make the comparison to Germany. VDSL is VDSL. ADSL is ADSL. FTTH is FTTH. Just because its called Munster not Bavaria doesnt change the technology or physics.

But why then is it ok to Charge €50/mo per sub for adsl 4meg....doesn't add up..

Wanderer78

Right that's it, we obviously need to start moving houses towards cabs.

oscarBravo

bk wrote: »

In Germany you wouldn't be allowed to build a house more then 2km from a town or village as it simply isn't sustainable.

So ****ing what? You're going to solve Ireland's rural broadband problem by pointing out that other countries wouldn't have allowed it to arise in the first place?

We have a problem. It needs to be fixed. Yes, I get that some urban dwellers don't care whether or not it gets fixed, but that doesn't fix the problem either, just like the fact that some rural dwellers don't care about urban public transport isn't going to solve that problem.

I really wish we could somehow damp down the reflex to whine about how problems shouldn't have been allowed to arise every. frigging. time. a solution to those problems is discussed.

legocrazy505

ED E wrote: »

Eir would love to offer it, if you'd pay for it. If a VDSL cab can operate at €50/mo per sub in Waterford say then out in a small village that price would rise to €120/mo per sub or more. Nobody will pay that so no operators have rolled out to there.

We can make the comparison to Germany. VDSL is VDSL. ADSL is ADSL. FTTH is FTTH. Just because its called Munster not Bavaria doesnt change the technology or physics.

This would be valid if Eir weren't putting cabs in some villages and not others. Our village has two estates all full. That's way more than some villages that already have FTTC and are down for FTTH.

Whining about villages developing is just Dublin speak for "we don't wanna pay". Eir can easily serve 150 houses here with FTTC but they haven't bothered to give us anything since 2010 when the exchange got upped to 1mbps/2mbps for everyone in the village. That was slow in 2010 and it's certainly the dial-up of today. If they can afford to keep screwing us over with their "NGB enabled exchange" that offers little for the 60 euro Eir customers pay then they have every right to demand they get something worth more for their money. Paying the same amount for people with speeds 100 times faster on apparently what you claim to be more expensive networks makes 0 logical sense.

Again not one of you have addressed the fact that Eir have not served countless villages with at least a cabinet when they plan to give people way further out FTTH. Surely we should be whining about that and not about giving people within a FTTC radius one cabinet.

People outside of cities (I'm including towns in this since the town five minutes from us didn't get FTTC until a year ago) quietly took the pain of being over charged for an outdated, arcane network. The technology is here now though to upgrade the network and if the government and the people in Dublin gave a **** about it then we would be leading the way in Europe for broadband delivery. Paving the way technologically can only improve the country as a whole, just like rural folk (people outside Dublin) paying for the services in Dublin benefits all.

frozenfrozen

It's the red tape involved that makes rural broadband expensive. Perfect example is B4RN. When you just start digging trenches and only have to pay 2k euro per KM of cable it's probably the best euro : something actually being achieved ratio there could possibly be in this country, for anything.

Instead we are getting this horse designed by committee cluster **** where everyone who knows nothing puts their 2 cents into the solution and in 10 years we'll be looking back going how did they manage to spend all the FTTH money on everything but fibre to the home

Dublin vs the rest of the country divide aside, it just would be nowhere near as expensive if they just bought 50k kms of fibre and automatically approved all of the planning permission / access to ducting and trenching and just started connecting every single house. I don't care if they start from top to bottom or right to left in the country, there is no need for all this planning of deciding where gets it first, everyone needs to be covered eventually so just get digging. They could've started this 5 years ago and every cattleshed in the country could be on 10gbit fibre by now but we'll be waiting and waiting and waiting

Don't worry though, "40mbits" super-fast four GEEEEEEE broadband will tide those pesky culchies over until they forget there was ever a FTTH plan at all, and everyone in dublin will moan that 4g is enough for those damn knuckle draggers who thought they were great building a house in the middle of nowhere and that the money would be better spent upgrading their fibre to 100gbit

plodder

frozenfrozen wrote: »

It's the red tape involved that makes rural broadband expensive. Perfect example is B4RN.

What's stopping anyone from doing that here? I find it hard to believe that Ireland is more regulated than the UK.

ED E

plodder wrote: »

What's stopping anyone from doing that here? I find it hard to believe that Ireland is more regulated than the UK.

Willpower.

Regulation here is punitive for WISPs, nothing stopping a B4RN here. Just need people bothered enough to convince their geriatric farmer of a neighbour to allow them to plough through their land. Loads love to moan but we've seen nobody even trial a community fixed line system.

pegasus1

ED E wrote: »

Willpower.

Regulation here is punitive for WISPs, nothing stopping a B4RN here. Just need people bothered enough to convince their geriatric farmer of a neighbour to allow them to plough through their land. Loads love to moan but we've seen nobody even trial a community fixed line system.

Eh Dungarvan in Co. Waterford

seaniefr

From reading the last few posts I can't ever see rural dwellers getting anything better than imagine 4G/LTE. Look at our parasitic politicians squabbling if you want to wonder as a rural dweller if it's ever going to be fixed . I wish they would just give the bloody contract to Eir and be done with it. They seem to be the only ones with boots on the ground......