NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

rob808

funnyname wrote: »

Let's hope they start on the buildings not covered by Eircom's plans so that they don't end up wasting millions on rollout speeds that are obsolete before they begin.

The speed are already obsolete that why we need FTTH as the technology of choice because it future proof and cheaper to maintain than copper.The wisp will struggle just to get to 30mb at all times and the 6mp upload.

I have feeling doh the NBP might end up a failure like usual the goverment probably end up giving it to wisp because they probably say they do it cheaper and goverment wanna save money,don't think they care as long as they hit the target of 30mb.

Think FTTH for NBP might be just be a pipe dream for the rest of us but guess it nice to hope for it.

The Cush

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

The September Report has been published on the DCENR site. Interestingly it mentions a meeting the NBP team had with a new company, Gigabit Fibre Limited, which to quote the department "has been set up for the sole purpose of tendering for the NBP contract or contracts"

Doing a bit of searching I see it has been co-founded by ex-Eircom Business managing director Ronan Kneafsey.

Listed on Solocheck as directors (two of five) are:
Alan Harper
Andrew Sangster

Does anyone have any more information on this new entrant to the race?

From today's Irish Indo, Gigabit Fibre article

Top telecoms execs back new broadband venture

Two former Eircom executives, a high-ranking Vodafone veteran, and the previous boss of O2 Ireland, Danuta Gray (pictured), are behind a new company that aims to deliver super-fast broadband to rural areas as part of the Government's National Broadband Plan, the Irish Independent has learned.

Ronan Kneafsey, who was the head of Eircom's business division until 2014, is among those who have co-founded the new company, Gigabit Fibre.

Danuta Gray headed O2's Irish operation until 2010, when she resigned after nine years in the role. She is also a non-executive director at Paddy Power, and was previously a non-executive director at Aer Lingus and Permanent TSB.

A former senior Vodafone UK executive, Alan Harper, is also involved in Gigabit Fibre. He was the managing director of Vodafone UK and also co-founded Eaton Towers, a company that develops telecoms infrastructure in Africa.

Peter Cook, a UK-based telecoms consultant who brought the team together, told the Irish Independent that Gigabit Fibre would deliver up to one gigabit fibre internet to rural homes and businesses by digging fibre channels to premises.

He said this has already been done in the UK and Sweden, for instance, and is now a cost-competitive way of delivering fibre. Mr Cook's consultancy firm previously worked with Eircom under its former chief executive, Paul Donovan.

Mr Cook said Gigabit Fibre's aim is to be the primary provider in intervention areas under the NDP. It plans to operate as a wholesaler, offering capacity on its fibre to any retailer who wants to re-sell it.

"We wouldn't be doing it if we didn't fancy our chances," he said.

He added that rolling out the fibre network would cost hundreds of millions of euro and that advanced funding talks have taken place with the likes of private equity and pension funds.

Other directors of the new Irish firm include Dublin-based telecoms consultant David Stone.

He previously worked with telecoms watchdog Comreg, and subsequently with Eircom, between 2007 and 2013. He was a lead advisor on the telco's bid for the first National Broadband Plan. The plan was developed by the Government to deliver high-speed broadband services to every home and business in Ireland.

While much of that is being achieved through significant independent investment made by companies such as UPC and Eir, a vast swathe of rural Ireland has still not benefited from high-speed services.

A public consultation by the Department of Communications - due to be completed this month - is underway about how the Government proposes to deliver high-speed broadband by 2020 to areas where it is uneconomical for the commercial sector to invest.

Gigabit Fibre will be among the firms pitching to secure a contract under those plans. The Government will start the procurement process by the end of the year.

Gigabit's directors also include Christer Karlsson. He was previously involved in a UK company called Gigaclear, which provides fast broadband to rural communities in Britain.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/top-telecoms-execs-back-new-broadband-venture-31535964.html

rob808

That good new for rural Ireland there 3 lot the goverment should just give siro 1 and openeir 1 and Gigabit fibre the last 1 everyone have FTTH and wisp could resell it everybody win .what likely hood of that happen but it could and if our goverment smart they save money and won't have to keep going back again and again.

tsue921i8wljb3

Thanks for the link to the article The Cush

Peter Cook, a UK-based telecoms consultant who brought the team together, told the Irish Independent that Gigabit Fibre would deliver up to one gigabit fibre internet to rural homes and businesses by digging fibre channels to premises.

There seems to be a lot of industry expertise among the group but at first glance it is hard to see how they could compete on costs with openeir and Siro who both have existing pole and duct infrastructure in place.

It does however make it less likely that a WISP will win any part of the contract which should be welcomed by all.

rob808

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Thanks for the link to the article The Cush



There seems to be a lot of industry expertise among the group but at first glance it is hard to see how they could compete on costs with both openeir and Siro who both have existing pole and duct infrastructure in place.

It does however make it less likely that a WISP will win any part of the contract which should be welcomed by all.

I look at a video on YouTube a contractor was doing FTTH in Denmark they plowing with a Gm flatliner and it lay the fibre and think this is what Gigabit fibre mostly likely doing it cost - effective.

KeRbDoG

rob808 wrote: »

I look at a video on YouTube a contractor was doing FTTH in Denmark they plowing with a Gm flatliner and it lay the fibre and think this is what Gigabit fibre mostly likely doing it cost - effective.

That only really works if you have a large soft verge to use

rob808

KeRbDoG wrote: »

That only really works if you have a large soft verge to use

They have one that they use in urban areas as well so hard to say how gigabit fibre would do it.I say they get Gm since they have experience doing FTTH to rural areas.

The Cush

From today's Sunday Times

In June, Eir announced it would launch a fibre to the home programme (FTTH), running fibre directly into homes at speeds of 1Gbps, matching Siro. Eir also announced it would be launching FTTH to up to 300,000 of the 700,000 homes to be included in the NBP.

The move has annoyed NBP rival bidders. Under the plan, the government asked all the operators to indicate what areas they felt could not be serves commercially. The maps indicated 700,000 homes that needed to be subsidised by government. With its FTTH announcement, Eir redrew the map.

Rivals privately suspect the move is designed to tilt NBP towards Eir. If the broadband plan coverage is reduced to 400,000 homes, it may not be worth the effort for other players.

The department is pressing Eir to establish how many home will get what type of fibre and at what cost.

rob808

The Cush wrote: »

From today's Sunday Times

I bet you it the wisp ripplecom and imagine crying again dam hope they don't screw me up and then ending up not getting FTTH.

fergus1001

Eircom are now known as "eir"

bk

The Cush wrote: »

From today's Sunday Times:

Rivals privately suspect the move is designed to tilt NBP towards Eir. If the broadband plan coverage is reduced to 400,000 homes, it may not be worth the effort for other players.

I expect that is why Eircom is doing this.

However the issue that the other players (SIRO, etc.) might find is that it really is relatively affordable for Eircom to do these 300,000 homes.

Looking at a few towns on the map, it is clear that at least 50% of the blue lines run from the local exchange out to each of the FTTC cabs. So clearly the fibre is clearly already in place, so it should be relatively easy for them to connect each home along this fiber.

Similarly the other 50% seem to be along main roads of the towns. I assume these are along existing ducts, which should be able to push fiber through relatively easily.

It was a very clever move by Eircom, it gives them the majority of each town and then they are the most likely to win the NBP funding for the homes just beyond their network.

Johnboy1951

I understood (but might have misunderstood) that the gov required the commercial roll-outs to be completed by end 2017 and were looking for assurances around this prior to making any decision about the scope of the NBP.

If that is the case, and eir have said they will complete those extra fibre runs by the end of 2020, then there is some serious discussion due around both the eir scheme as well as the NBP.

rob808

bk wrote: »

I expect that is why Eircom is doing this.

However the issue that the other players (SIRO, etc.) might find is that it really is relatively affordable for Eircom to do these 300,000 homes.

Looking at a few towns on the map, it is clear that at least 50% of the blue lines run from the local exchange out to each of the FTTC cabs. So clearly the fibre is clearly already in place, so it should be relatively easy for them to connect each home along this fiber.

Similarly the other 50% seem to be along main roads of the towns. I assume these are along existing ducts, which should be able to push fiber through relatively easily.

It was a very clever move by Eircom, it gives them the majority of each town and then they are the most likely to win the NBP funding for the homes just beyond their network.

I don't think the another ISP can really do anything since Eir are not getting any money of the goverment for the 300,000k houses plus it a open network.I think Eir were smart what do you think the chance the other ISP could change it.

funnyname

Hopefully the govt don't do anything daft and ban them from rolling out ftth to these 300k homes as it falls outside their current NBP remit.

ItHurtsWhenIP

funnyname wrote: »

Hopefully the govt don't do anything daft and ban them from rolling out ftth to these 300k homes as it falls outside their current NBP remit.

(a) The government can't ban a company carrying on it's normal business unless it is breaking the law.
-and-
(b) There is no NBP remit for anybody at this time.

KOR101

Eircom have created a real problem for the NBP. When the government said that the plan would be split into 2/3 areas, they probably wanted to award different areas to different companies. Now say SIRO win one area, and Eircom the other. In the area that Eircom wins, they would still want to complete the adjoining portion of the 300,000 homes, as they have to run fibre through those areas anyway. But in the area that SIRO wins, the adjoining portion of the 300,000 homes that Eircom have promised could be left in limbo, as Eircom meet it's contractual obligations under the NBP, and continue their furious effort to connect up the towns before SIRO.

SIRO, may decide though, that they have to run fibres through the same area anyway, and so offer it to those homes as well. But, that also applies to all the towns they will have to bring fibre though on the way to the NBP areas. For example, if SIRO were to win the Black Valley area, would they not offer fibre in Killarney and Kenmare as well. And, that's the big threat Eircom face.

lawred2

KOR101 wrote: »

Eircom have created a real problem for the NBP. When the government said that the plan would be split into 2/3 areas, they probably wanted to award different areas to different companies. Now say SIRO win one area, and Eircom the other. In the area that Eircom wins, they would still want to complete the adjoining portion of the 300,000 homes, as they have to run fibre through those areas anyway. But in the area that SIRO wins, the adjoining portion of the 300,000 homes that Eircom have promised could be left in limbo, as Eircom meet it's contractual obligations under the NBP, and continue their furious effort to connect up the towns before SIRO.

SIRO, may decide though, that they have to run fibres through the same area anyway, and so offer it to those homes as well. But, that also applies to all the towns they will have to bring fibre though on the way to the NBP areas. For example, if SIRO were to win the Black Valley area, would they not offer fibre in Killarney and Kenmare as well. And, that's the big threat Eircom face.

that would be Irish alright..

Certain areas serviced by two providers at great cost while other areas will be deemed too cost ineffective by both providers..

garroff

Can someone remind me when the next NBP report is due?. Is it this week?.

The Cush

Usually a week or two into the month

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/en-ie/Broadband/Pages/Latest-News.aspx

garroff

Thank you.

Johnboy1951

I have been trying to figure out whether the new fibre runs released by eir (thin blue lines out to rural areas) are included in the NBP or not.

Those blue lines do not appear on the map shown here
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/en-ie/Broadband/Pages/National-Broadband-Plan-Map-.aspx

National Broadband Plan Map

The map shows Ireland with two colours, BLUE and AMBER. The blue represents those areas that the commercial operators will cover by the end of 2016. Amber represents areas that will be targeted by the National Broadband Plan.

eir says it will do the 'blue line' runs from 2017 to 2020 which is after the 2016 specified.

It seems eir has muddied the waters? .... or should we expect the map to change and specify the 'thin blue lines' as commercial, to be completed later than 2016?
dcenr say the map can change .... but I have not noticed any change in response to eir's 'blue lines'.

Any insight?

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

eir says it will do the 'blue line' runs from 2017 to 2020 which is after the 2016 specified.

It seems eir has muddied the waters? .... or should we expect the map to change and specify the 'thin blue lines' as commercial, to be completed later than 2016?
dcenr say the map can change .... but I have not noticed any change in response to eir's 'blue lines'.

Any insight?

I read somewhere on the Dept's website that an updated map would be available about Nov when the tender is expected to be published.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

I read somewhere on the Dept's website that an updated map would be available about Nov when the tender is expected to be published.

Thanks .... will have to wait it seems

Gonzo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Those blue lines do not appear on the map shown here
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/en-ie/Broadband/Pages/National-Broadband-Plan-Map-.aspx

Any insight?

that map seems to show in blue the footprint of where FTTC is available, no FTTH is represented on that map. Will be interesting to see that map update in November to reflect the major change with Eir Rural FTTH.

garroff

When the houses in blue area get fibre will that result in non blue houses on same exchange getting slightly better BB than they have at present.

My thinking is that as there will be less houses on the existing copper networks....the service might improve.....Am I kidding myself?.

I also believe in Santa Clause.

Gonzo

garroff wrote: »

When the houses in blue area get fibre will that result in non blue houses on same exchange getting slightly better BB than they have at present.

My thinking is that as there will be less houses on the existing copper networks....the service might improve.....Am I kidding myself?.

I also believe in Santa Clause.

non blue areas in the current NBP map will see FTTH along some routes out of towns and villages. To see where gets the FTTH select 'Rural Fibre Routes' on this map. http://www.openeir.ie/Our_Network/

garroff

Gonzo
many thanks. That map helped.

rob808

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/2015/09/28/same-old-planning-problems-threaten-to-delay-national-broadband-plan

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It seems eir has muddied the waters? .... or should we expect the map to change and specify the 'thin blue lines' as commercial, to be completed later than 2016?
dcenr say the map can change .... but I have not noticed any change in response to eir's 'blue lines'.

Any insight?

This from the Intervention Strategy Report published last July

The High Speed Broadband Map published in 2014, shows the extent of industry commitments to end 2016 and indicates that 70% of addresses in Ireland will have access to high speed broadband within that timescale. The balance of 30%, approximately 757,000 addresses, represents the target for the proposed State intervention. This figure may be revised over the coming months, following detailed assessment of new information and investment decisions announced in recent weeks.

...

The map is being kept under review to ensure that relevant commercial plans are accurately reflected. There have been some significant proposals from industry in recent months. The Department is reviewing these proposals, assessing their technical and financial aspects and the robustness of their deployment plans.

Following a review of new and existing operator plans, the Department will produce a revised High Speed Broadband Map.

...

Subject to finalisation of this intervention strategy and the State Aid approval process, it is proposed to proceed with formal public procurement in December 2015.

Q&A on the consultation (3rd September - 10th September)

Q In order to design the high speed future proofed network, cost the solution, determine the type of premises covered and their potential revenue stream and to determine if the project is viable, the footprint to be covered in the Intervention Area is essential information. Can the Department now confirm whether the IA coverage is 757,000 premises?

A The IA may change on foot of the review of operator investment plans submitted in recent months. The review of these plans to ensure they are "concrete" as required by the State Aid Guidelines is in progress and is expected to be completed by the end of this year. DCENR plans to publish an updated map in December which may or may not include a revised IA.


Q To adequately prepare for a prequalification response or indeed a full bid response, based on an altered IA, will take some time (e.g. We estimate it will take at least 3 months to prepare a network design to deliver to the revised premises, cost the network design, remove costs associated with commercial coverage, identify the type, sub-types and volumes of premises, adapt the product types and the revenue model, prepare a revised business case and seek senior and executive approval). When will the DCENR confirm the size and nature of the IA ?

A It is currently planned to publish an updated NBP 2020 Map before the end of 2015, which will provide an updated position on the size and nature of the IA


Q Please advise whether there will be further changes in the IA between preliminary and final bid submissions and the notice period before final submission?

A It is currently DCENR’s intention to "freeze" the map and confirm the IA immediately prior to commencing the procurement process, in order to provide a more stable basis for managing the procurement and for bidders to prepare and cost their network designs, prepare business cases and compile the information and approvals required for tender submissions. DCENR will however reserve the right to make adjustments to the IA during the procurement process where it is necessary to do so. Further details will be made available in advance of the procurement.


Q For clarity please confirm that when the DCENR update their maps and launch the procurement process, that it will provide an eircode for each premise in the intervention area that requires an NGA Broadband Connection. This will ensure that each premises in the intervention area will be ensured of a NGA Broadband Connection.

A DCENR will update the High Speed Broadband Map shortly before the launch of the procurement process, which is planned to be launched before the end of this year.
We are currently exploring whether how best the new eircode numbering system can be incorporated into the address database, taking into account any licence conditions that may pertain to the new system and any limitations this may present on the use of eircode for the NBP Procurement process. However, we will endeavour to ensure the database of addresses to be covered by the intervention is as concrete and transparent as possible for all bidders, and to ensure the rollout can be monitored as effectively as possible.

From the August & Sept updates

- We recently received updated information from operators in respect of further commercial rollout of high speed broadband services. We are reviewing all of the data provided by operators for 2016 - 2020 with a view to validating and updating commercial coverage plans and revising as appropriate the High Speed broadband map

- We continue to review all of the data provided by operators for 2016-2020 with a view to validating and updating the High Speed coverage map as published on www.broadband.gov.ie by the end of the year pre procurement.

BandMember

This does not look good....

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/government-shaves-over-200m-off-national-broadband-plan-spend-cut-to-275m-31567889.html