DCM 2014 graduates - the next step onwards

MaggotBrain

adrian522 wrote: »

Created this weeks tab in the spreadsheet, not sure if everything still calculates ok, let me know if you notice any problems.

Crap, sorry about that! Looks like you have a new job Adrian

Clearlier

chickey2 wrote: »

After all my talk about running this morning I woke up feeling awful so went back to bed. Couldn't go to work I felt so bad. I'm on the sofa now full of neurofen but at least I'm getting some time to read about running like firedance! I've been reading some articles on the kinetic revolution site. Clearlier, do you think there's anything to gain from monitoring cadence? I haven't a clue what mine is but was wondering should I measure it and maybe improve it. I got a metronome app on my phone. Im guessing you just set it at your goal cadence and try and run with it. I don't know if its the kind of thing I could just try myself or is it better to do it with someone who knows what they're doing.

I liked watching the slow mo recordings of the elites. I shudder to think what I'd look like running slow mo! Although I was fascinated by Priscah Jeptoo and her mad (but fast!) running. Boards won't let me add the link but just search Priscah Jeptoo running technique on you tube and you'll find it.

I think that all of my thoughts on cadence have probably been covered but in case it's of any use I agree that the 180 is a complete myth. Cadence varies with speed and terrain.

I think that there can be some benefit to monitoring your cadence and experimenting with shorter/longer strides. I know of someone who reports to have deliberately shortened their stride in order to increase cadence and made significant improvements. In general I think that shorter strides are a better idea. A shorter stride will often lead to a more controlled landing places less stress on the rest of the body and as a result fewer injuries. I also think that you can get away with less bad habits at higher cadences. I personally have a tendency to run lazily when I'm doing easy runs and it does me no favours! You want to maintain similar running form at all paces. There's no magic number though.

It's very difficult to change your stride pattern so give some thought as to how you're going to do it before you do. Happy to chime in with some ideas but I've never actually tried to do it with anyone so I'd be flying blind. A metronome seems like a good idea I think.

P.S. Planks bad?? They might not provide as much benefit as we'd hope but I wouldn't call them bad. Controlled dynamic movements replicating the movements used in running are probably the most useful.

ECOLII

Clearlier wrote: »

P.S. Planks bad?? They might not provide as much benefit as we'd hope but I wouldn't call them bad. Controlled dynamic movements replicating the movements used in running are probably the most useful.

Alot of conflicting and theories and alot of poor science on both sides to be honest.

Personally not a fan of them however if they can provide some good functions if used correctly in terms of muscle activation patterns as well as total body exercises (how may of us focus on anything outside of our "core muscles" when doing these exercises? Your Lats, Rhomboids, Splenius Capitus, Erector Spinae should all be focused on as well and can have a positive impact in your running (and stabilization exercises such as planks actually do provide a functionary role)

Bottom line is Planks should not be demonized as much as they are amongst many.

chickey2

Thanks for the advice. Think I need to stop analysing and just get out and run! (Not tonight though, I might get blown away! )

adrian522

Crazy bad weather tonight. Nearly bailed on a session for the second night in a row. Last night it was ice tonight it was wind and rain. Just forgot about target paces and tried to run on feel. 5 x 4 mins @ 5K pace. I'd say my paces are all over the place. Ran a loop near where I live, half of which was into the wind the rest with the wind. Hard to judge correct pace.

Just glad I'm finished and drinking a nice cup of tea.

chickey2

adrian522 wrote: »

Crazy bad weather tonight. Nearly bailed on a session for the second night in a row. Last night it was ice tonight it was wind and rain. Just forgot about target paces and tried to run on feel. 5 x 4 mins @ 5K pace. I'd say my paces are all over the place. Ran a loop near where I live, half of which was into the wind the rest with the wind. Hard to judge correct pace.

Just glad I'm finished and drinking a nice cup of tea.

Fair play to you, you earned your cup of tea tonight! I'm going to try that session tomorrow morning.

Dub13

I managed to find a much better hill for the sprints in St Anne's Park, I run past it a lot and never realized it was so steep till I seen a few people training on it last week. I gave it a go today and its perfect, one question.

I had a lot of time on my hands today so wanted to do a longer run as well, so I ran 7k to the hill then did the sprints and ran back again. Now I took it easy for the 14k was 6:10 min/km, was this a good idea or a bad idea..?

annapr

Dub13 wrote: »

I managed to find a much better hill for the sprints in St Anne's Park, I run past it a lot and never realized it was so steep till I seen a few people training on it last week. I gave it a go today and its perfect, one question.

I had a lot of time on my hands today so wanted to do a longer run as well, so I ran 7k to the hill then did the sprints and ran back again. Now I took it easy for the 14k was 6:10 min/km, was this a good idea or a bad idea..?

Just curious, which hill in St Anne's? from the seafront up?

Dub13

annapr wrote:

Just curious, which hill in St Anne's? from the seafront up?

Yes, It's down the Clontarf end beside Wong's restaurant. The path from the seafront, the path ends up at the the playground. From the seafront up to the start of the tree's is perfect for hill sprint's, you would not think It's that steep but It's just right.

annapr

Dub13 wrote: »

Yes, It's down the Clontarf end beside Wong's restaurant. The path from the seafront, the path ends up at the the playground. From the seafront up to the start of the tree's is perfect for hill sprint's, you would not think It's that steep but It's just right.

I know it well but didn't think it was that steep. Good to know, thanks.

Clearlier

Dub13 wrote: »

I managed to find a much better hill for the sprints in St Anne's Park, I run past it a lot and never realized it was so steep till I seen a few people training on it last week. I gave it a go today and its perfect, one question.

I had a lot of time on my hands today so wanted to do a longer run as well, so I ran 7k to the hill then did the sprints and ran back again. Now I took it easy for the 14k was 6:10 min/km, was this a good idea or a bad idea..?

Absolutely fine. The key is to be fresh for the hill sprints so it's no good doing it after a 20 mile long run but your way was absolutely fine.

Dub13

Anybody here plan on doing the Raheny 5 mile next Sun..? If so what are you plans for the coming week...?

Dubgal72

Dub13 wrote: »

Anybody here plan on doing the Raheny 5 mile next Sun..? If so what are you plans for the coming week...?

Hi Dub13, I think quite a few of us are incl myself. It's not a target race for me so I don't plan to taper too much. I'll do the usual but at a slightly lower intensity.
Today, lsr
Mon, rest or easy 4m
Tue, fartlek session
Wed, recovery run
Thur, club session definitely lower intensity
Fri, recovery run
Sat, rest

We should all try to meet up after.

Pacing Mule

I'm in for Raheny - and persuaded Mrs Mule to sign up too. :pac:

adrian522

I'm running Sunday. Missed out on my long run today. That will give me the opportunity to pull everything back a day, so I'll do something like this:

M: quality session
T: Easy
W: Easy
T: Hill repeats
F: easy
S: Very Easy
S: race.

laura_ac3

Right so - think myself, dubgal, mimojo and possibly Ososlo have notions of meeting up after raheny. Anyone else around and interested just shout! Think there are post race refreshments, I read that there was but not clear where. Possibly scoil aine or the football club.

adrian522

I'd be up for a meetup anyway.

Dubgal72

Well I know you Adrian and you know 'everybody' so I'll stick with Adrian as my identifier I'll be with quite a few club mates too so you might mistake them for boardsies (well one is) cos we'll be corralling the chocolate zone too

laura_ac3

Ok I'll be arriving well after you speedsters so I'll look for Adrian and some lady guarding the chocolate in a threatening manner.

Dub13

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Right so - think myself, dubgal, mimojo and possibly Ososlo have notions of meeting up after raheny. Anyone else around and interested just shout! Think there are post race refreshments, I read that there was but not clear where. Possibly scoil aine or the football club.

I will be around but 3 of the kids are running the kids race before so not sure if I will be around for long after.

aquinn

Well done to all trainees, ye are flying.
Me, not so much.
3 miles on Saturday, it wasn't fun for first run of the year.
Starting a new routine from tomorrow. IN a GYM! First time in years but need a kick and start a routine. Doing this for a month and then combine in a few runs to get me back into a routine.
Best of luck doing Raheny.

Clearlier

I want to introduce you to a metric that helps you measure improvements in your fitness over time without the need to do any specific test. It does require that you measure your heart rate.

It's called beats per mile. Quite simply it measures the average number of heartbeats that it takes you to cover a mile. I've added an extra little table to the Heart Rate Calculations worksheet of the training log to make it easy to calculate.

The point of it is to measure your progress over a period of time. If you found that it took you 1400 beats to cover a mile in November and it takes 1300 to cover a mile now then you know that you have improved.

Like all measurements you have to be sensible about how you measure it. There's no point in comparing a hill sprint session with an easy run . I usually just compare easy runs that are at least a half hour in length and run over courses/conditions that are roughly comparable.

I usually notice a small difference in my numbers after about 3 weeks of consistent training and a bigger one after 6 weeks. The fitter you are at the start the smaller the differences.

There's nothing new about this method. Fetch uses it calculating it automatically which is quite helpful. I don't use Strava (yet) but a quick google suggests that it's not there.

N.B. As with all heart rate metrics there's no point in comparing these numbers between people other than for idle curiosity. It's the differences in your own performances that are interesting.

adrian522

Intruiging.

Mine has gone as follows:

Late November starting back after the break: 1430
Early December: 1426
Late December: 1328
Early Jan: 1315

Clearlier

adrian522 wrote: »

Intruiging.

Mine has gone as follows:

Late November starting back after the break: 1430
Early December: 1426
Late December: 1328
Early Jan: 1315

That's a pretty significant improvement Adrian. If you have data from the time leading up to the marathon you can judge whether you've reached a similar level of fitness yet.

I'll add a note to my previous post but worth remembering that as with all heart rate metrics there's no point in comparing these numbers between people only between your own performances.

adrian522

The only issue is I just picked easy paced runs and added them in, they were not all the same route or whatever.

I have a run coming up to the marathon last year that comes out as 1339. Not sure about that 1315 above now, seems like a bit of an outlier.

Anyway I'm not sure the HR data from the garmin can be 100% replied upon for this.

Clearlier

adrian522 wrote: »

The only issue is I just picked easy paced runs and added them in, they were not all the same route or whatever.

I have a run coming up to the marathon last year that comes out as 1339. Not sure about that 1315 above now, seems like a bit of an outlier.

Anyway I'm not sure the HR data from the garmin can be 100% replied upon for this.

If you measure several of them over time you'll see a trend. If it is an outlier it will stick out!

chickey2

Thanks for that, I love more data to look at! I don't have any heart rate measurements from before November so I don't have much to look at yet but will keep a record.

smashiner

Dub13 wrote: »

Anybody here plan on doing the Raheny 5 mile next Sun..? If so what are you plans for the coming week...?

Hi guys,
I am on for Sunday too. I am coming back from a bit of an IT band issue, so I will be happy to clip along nicely on this one and then set a bit of a plan for the year. I am aiming for 40-42 minutes and I will be happy to get through unscathed. I am struggling to get my faster pace back post the DCM as I was running at 5:40 a km for 6+ months, anyone else in that boat?

I did 8K on Saturday (a bit icy but good fun) at almost race pace (5:10 a km).
I am going to do 10K this evening on the way home at 5:15-5:30 pace.
Thursday I will do 9km, most of which I plan to run at race pace.
Stretch and rest until Sunday and hand myself over to Baby Jebus and give it a lash!

If it's your first time doing this race IMO:
Don't go out too fast as the first part of the course is flat ish anyway (must write that bit on the back of my own hand too).
Bring a drop of water as I don't think that there are water stations.
Leave a little bit in the tank for the last mile as there is a bit of a steep hill when you come off the coast road back up to the finish.

Best of luck.....delighted to be back running...see you there!!

Bulmers74

smashiner wrote: »

I did 8K on Saturday (a bit icy but good fun) at almost race pace (5:10 a km).
I am going to do 10K this evening on the way home at 5:15-5:30 pace.
Thursday I will do 9km, most of which I plan to run at race pace.

What's the thinking behind running 3 sessions of 8,10 & 9 kms at between 5 mile & 10 k pace the week before your 5 mile race?

smashiner

Bulmers74 wrote: »

What's the thinking behind running 3 sessions of 8,10 & 9 kms at between 5 mile & 10 k pace the week before your 5 mile race?

I am finding that since I am coming back from a few weeks of low activity (IT band), that I am struggling a bit with endurance. I had been running slower 10K's over Christmas to build up slowly.
This is why I have gone for the 8K last Saturday at a 'faster' pace, the 10K run tonight at a slower pace to build up a bit of stamina and avoid too much strain / injury and then the last 8-9K on Thurs at a fast ish pace as a last 'prepp' for the race. Plenty of rest and stretching for IT band etc and hopefully all will be fine :rolleyes: