Serial

Rosy Posy

I thought it was a satisfying ending. My ethical spidey senses were tingling when she interviewed Josh. I don't think you can put much credence in interviewees that volunteer themselves in response to the podcast.

The way he inserted Adnan into the story and the way that Sarah sort of led him to the consensus that the person who Jay feared was 'Middle Eastern' (lol Pakistan is in South Asia, and anyway, Adnan was American) seemed bogus to me. I did think it gave good insight into Jay's character.

I'm looking forward to the follow up episode in a year or whenever with details of the DNA results and the appeal.

Turtyturd

I didn't actually cop that was what she meant by the big picture comment. I thought the serial killer connection was silly when it was first mentioned in the Innocence Project episode as it went against everything Jay knew, and was waiting for her to drop some bombshell

connection between Ronald and Jay.

Wow. Wow!
I loved the ending, thought it was the best episode of all. What amazing storytelling/presenting and knowledge of the listener. IMO the real psych knowledge displayed was of us as listeners.

For the first time though I really felt for the victim's family. I guess the implied conclusion brought the reality home a little.

Great series, and haven't been so gripped by any series since The Sopranos / The Wire! What next?

Amazingfun

I still think Adnan did it and was happy to hear Dana's "bad luck day" rant because I agree 100%. I am also with Sarah

in her "even if in my heart of heart's I thought Adnan did it....as a juror I''d have to acquit him".

Good ending really and I (like millions of others) am looking forward to Season 2

The Black Oil

Listened to the first episode earlier this week. Seems to be your typical NPR production, though I'm not entirely won over, yet.

Giruilla

Amazingfun wrote: »

I still think Adnan did it and was happy to hear Dana's "bad luck day" rant because I agree 100%. I am also with Sarah

in her "even if in my heart of heart's I thought Adnan did it....as a juror I''d have to acquit him".

Good ending really and I (like millions of others) am looking forward to Season 2

So you think Adnan is guilty, based on if he didn't do it, he would have been hugely unlucky for everything to happen to him the way it did.. which you deem impossible and evidence of guilt.
So how about Adnan getting put with a lawyer who couldn't defend him properly in trial, when it should have been an easy job to get him off based on how unreliable Jay's testimony was and lack of evidence against Adnan... would you say that was unlucky?

I thought that was a poor way to end the show. SK copped out by not revealing who the snippets from the opening episode were from.

The easy ride she's given Jay - the person who knew where Hae's car was, used his shovel to bury her, threw away his clothers and lied repeatedly about everything he told police - over the course of the show is bizarre and a let down. In fact so strange, that I think there might be more to it. Like she actively did not want to implicate him in any way at all over the latter course of the show.

Amazingfun

Yes I think it's implausible for someone to be that unlucky-not impossible though.

Also: the lawyer didn't give as shoddy a defense as was originally thought. SK went over that already and gave legitimate reasons for her strategy moves. Rabia Chaudry was wrong in her allegations that she only wanted to get money from the family for an appeal according to Sarah's research.

And: I already said I agree with Sarah that there wasn't enough evidence to convict.

You seem angry or something? Better get used to the idea that many people believe Adnan is guilty I hope for his sake that the coming DNA tests go in his favor...but I am not expecting anything much to arise from it really. We'll see!

steve_r

Giruilla wrote: »

I thought that was a poor way to end the show. SK copped out by not revealing who the snippets from the opening episode were from.

The easy ride she's given Jay - the person who knew where Hae's car was, used his shovel to bury her, threw away his clothers and lied repeatedly about everything he told police - over the course of the show is bizarre and a let down. In fact so strange, that I think there might be more to it. Like she actively did not want to implicate him in any way at all over the latter course of the show.

There's a theory going around that those snippets were the "unfounded allegations" that she talked about in E11. Still, she should have addressed it because it's a red herring otherwise.

I'd love to know what was really said in the conversation with Jay. Given that the guys name is on public record, there would have been some pretty serious legal implications if she gave him too much attention.

This is very good: http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/6ab2d45a77/the-last-episode-of-serial

Giruilla

Amazingfun wrote: »

Yes I think it's implausible for someone to be that unlucky-not impossible though.

Amazingfun wrote: »

And: I already said I agree with Sarah that there wasn't enough evidence to convict.

You say you wouldn't convict Adnan, yet you are happy to engage in the type of illogical thinking that resulted in him being convicted in the first place.
Exactly what is implausible about what happened to Adnan that day?

THE most implauible thing in the whole case, is how Jay says Adnan killed Hae. That he planned to murder his ex girlfriend, by strangulation, in a parking lot, in a narrow time frame where she will be known missing instantly.. and to top it off, call a seperate person to effectively force them to help dispose of the body. It is a completely ludicrous notion.

Amazingfun wrote: »

Also: the lawyer didn't give as shoddy a defense as was originally thought. SK went over that already and gave legitimate reasons for her strategy moves. Rabia Chaudry was wrong in her allegations that she only wanted to get money from the family for an appeal according to Sarah's research.

As was originally thought? The lawyer gave a worse defense than possibly imaginable! She repeatedly asked the Syed's for money such as trasporting the jury to leakin park - which she blatantly pocketed. I'm not saying she threw the case on purpose, but she had clearly become troubled and inept for the case from the get go.
The single thing she had to do to get Adnan off was prove the unreal amount of inconsistincies in Jay's statements.. more than inconsistincies, lies.

Amazingfun

Exactly what is implausible about what happened to Adnan that day?

:pac: Are you for real? Did you actually listen to the finale or what? Pay special attention to Dana's rant on Adnan's unlucky day or even better...check here:

Giruilla

Amazingfun wrote: »

:pac: Are you for real? Did you actually listen to the finale or what? Pay special attention to Dana's rant on Adnan's unlucky day or even better...check here:

So you're willing to say the things written in that 'hilarious' meme are more implausible than as I wrote

.. Adnan planned to murder his ex girlfriend, by strangulation, in a parking lot, in a narrow time frame where she will be known missing instantly.. and to top it off, call a seperate person to effectively force them to help dispose of the body.

I might add that every single thing that according to you - is implausible - has been explained in depth on this blog as not only being entirely plausible, but detailing exactly how they happened whilst being corroborated from the cell phone records that day.

Amazingfun

Giruilla wrote: »

So you're willing to say the things written in that 'hilarious' meme are more implausible than as I wrote


I might add that every single thing that according to you - is implausible - has been explained in depth on this blog as not only being entirely plausible, but detailing exactly how they happened whilst being corroborated from the cell phone records that day.

You keep acting like you have it definitively solved lol. You don't. That meme was done using the words and research of Dana Chivers-a paid researcher for the show! You know more than she? I doubt that

So why don't you take your 'let's fight about Serial' to REDDIT? I already stated earlier in the thread I am not some Serial super-sleuth. I just think--as does Sarah and MANY others who indeed are genuine super sleuths-that there is enough there to still be suspicious of Adnan. For me the scenario that has him only really feeling the loss of Hae upon his return to school (to some white guy as well-a fact I feel is not hammered on enough really) led to a rage. It's in no way impausible that a 17 year old Adnan could do it. But-as almost everyone agrees: there wasn't really enough hard evidence for me to convict him were I a juror.

So: stop lecturing me like I am the only one in the world who thinks he may indeed be guilty. Far as I can see thousands of people still do and along with so many others I feel Jay was involved along with him...but how much or why...well we may never know.

Blisterman

Adnan may be implausibly unlucky. The odds of all those things occurring to him are probably in the hundreds of thousands.

But, the odds of them happening to somebody, anybody, out of the thousands of people accused of murder, are much less. It's like winning the lotto. Unlikely to happen to you, but chances are, someone's going to win it.

Don't forget, the reason this case above all others was selected was because of the level of ambiguity and improbability, which leads to a good story. If it were clear cut, there'd be no reason for it to exist.

Giruilla

Imagine this, a scenario where Adnan had a capable lawyer.

What happens?

What happens is what you agree should have happened, Adnan is acquitted.

Next - Jay's plea deal effectively crumbles and his trial is completely different. He's no longer treated as an 'accessory after the fact' as his story can no longer hold up. So what is going to happen to the guy who..
- had Adnans cellphone during a time in which Hae was murdered.
- made numerous called to his friends which pinged the towers in area where Hae dissapeared placing him there.
- showed police the exact location of Hae's car.
- described to police how Hae was buried exactly, position of body, location, depth of grave.
- used his own shovel to bury Hae's body.
- disposed of shovel.
- worried enough about dna and fingerprint evidence implicating him to return to shovel and wipe them clean.
- disposed of clothes he wore the day Hae went missing for fear of dna evidence.
- changed his story to police repeatedly.
- lied in every police interview he gave.
- lied in court.

.. you think a jury wont be able to convict him based on that?

The only evidence against Adnan, was Jay's testimony. What reason would he have to blame someone else for the crime? Because he is 100% getting convicted of murder if he doesn't.

To say Adnan was "implausibly unlucky" is fallacious. It's looking after the fact he was convicted with hindsight bias to say each event added up on its own, is too unlikely to be true.
Yet every single day occurences occur to each one of us, that if you stopped and looked back on it - selectively chose the likelihood of certain events occuring - you would also say are too unlikely to be true.

Rosy Posy

"Amazingfun wrote:

(to some white guy as well-a fact I feel is not hammered on enough really.

Why tf is this in any way relevant?

Amazingfun

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Why tf is this in any way relevant?

:rolleyes: do we really have to do this?

Rosy Posy

Amazingfun wrote: »

:rolleyes: do we really have to do this?

Well, you brought it up and questioned why it wasn't addressed in the podcast, which IMO is because it's of no relevance.

Amazingfun

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Well, you brought it up and questioned why it wasn't addressed in the podcast, which IMO is because it's of no relevance.

Well-in my opinion it is. It plays into a possible motive for why Adnan was angry enough to hurt Hae. It's not the main reason-it's not even that important in the grand scheme of things-but it matters. You're free to disagree.

Mr E

Interesting articles on Huff Post and Wired with some pictures of the people and places in Serial.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/12/serial-podcast-photos_n_6308356.html
http://www.wired.com/2014/12/every-serial-google-image-search/

Amazingfun

Just saw this-

The Innocence Project's Deirdre Enright fills everyone in on the who the new suspects on their radar are:


http://time.com/3639655/serial-innocence-project-deirdre-enright/

Rosy Posy

Amazingfun wrote: »

Well-in my opinion it is. It plays into a possible motive for why Adnan was angry enough to hurt Hae. It's not the main reason-it's not even that important in the grand scheme of things-but it matters. You're free to disagree.

It only matters if you believe that it's a universal truth, or at least that Adnan believes, that white people are inherently better than people of colour. Tbh I think the fact that he was older and had a camero are far more significant than his race.

Mr E

Then stuff like this pops up.....

https://soundcloud.com/mbugout/serial-theme-notorious-big-remix-by-fafu
https://soundcloud.com/kpffkl/mail-kimp-remix

_Bella_

This gave me a good laugh!

Mr E

They nailed the tone (and the lawyer!)

Loved the last line too.

I can't post links - but there's a Sarah Koenig / Terry Gross Fresh Air interview from the 23rd over on NPR.org.

Interesting to hear Sarah's perspective on how she handled the growing popularity as the series was broadcast.

Amazingfun

Interview with Jay:


https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/29/exclusive-interview-jay-wilds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/

Rosy Posy

Does anyone else think that Jay would have done himself more favours talking to Sarah?

He totally changes his story again and is either trolling or admitting to committing perjury. I think that if this had been teased out and given a sympathetic treatment the way Guiterrez and the detectives were given in the podcast he might have come out of it looking better.

8-10

Interview doesn't change my mind either way, when's Part 2 due out?

FouxDaFaFa

Part 2 of The Intercept interview with Jay.

The Strawman Argument

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Does anyone else think that Jay would have done himself more favours talking to Sarah?

He totally changes his story again and is either trolling or admitting to committing perjury. I think that if this had been teased out and given a sympathetic treatment the way Guiterrez and the detectives were given in the podcast he might have come out of it looking better.

He definitely would've came out of it looking better, but it's understandable enough that he was wary.

His reasoning for not telling the whole truth at the time of it all seems pretty believable imo and he'd've probably gotten far less of negative response had it been presented this way on the podcast instead. At the very least it would've made it easier to get across to people that the case is more about insubstantial evidence rather than whether or not Adnan done it.