Serial

Turtyturd

Rosy Posy wrote: »

They didn't say. It's a bit intense, that subreddit- people doing nutty things like timing themselves digging a shallow grave, using their gf as a Hae stand in; or expressing outrage at the producers not acknowledging the value of the obsessive online theorising. I like a good tinfoil hat as much as the next person but Sarah and co have been doing this as their job for the last year- they're hardly going to be out sleuthed in a few weeks by a bunch of armchair detectives.

There is an absolute wealth of info including several timelines- there's a good YouTube that someone's made showing Jays timeline on a map. Can't link from my phone for some reason but it's on the links in the subreddit.

Series 2 follows the case of a reddit user who's girlfriend was murdered but he claims they were only reenacting the case from series 1.

podgemonster

Rosy Posy wrote: »

In fairness most posters were telling him so!

This blog by a lawyer is brilliant- sharp analysis of the timeline together with the testimony from Jay, Jen and 'Cathy', and Adnan's story.

http://viewfromll2.com/2014/11/23/serial-a-comparison-of-adnans-cell-phone-records-and-the-witness-statements-provided-by-adnan-jay-jenn-and-cathy/

Wow that has really swung me in favour of Jay being guilty again.

There's just so many unknowns, variables, speculations and memory lapses. I really do think Sarah is holding a major interview back for the final few episodes which will remove a lot of hyperbole theories. There's a good few people we have yet to hear from.

Have to say I just got up to date on the podcast and then proceeded to this thread which was a very enjoyable read.

Giruilla

Rosy Posy wrote: »

This blog by a lawyer is brilliant- sharp analysis of the timeline together with the testimony from Jay, Jen and 'Cathy', and Adnan's story.

http://viewfromll2.com/2014/11/23/serial-a-comparison-of-adnans-cell-phone-records-and-the-witness-statements-provided-by-adnan-jay-jenn-and-cathy/

I don't know how anyone can read that and be unconvinced of Jay's guilt.

The detectives were so fixated on Adnan they missed the importance of the mistakes Jay was making.

Jay gave the case to them on a plate when he told them he lied "because he thought there were cameras at Best Buy". In other words he thought they would check Best Buy if he mentioned there and see it was him on his own with Hae.
Changed his story back to Best Buy, only at after he was told there was no cameras there by Jenn.

Mr E

Caught up over the weekend (lots of driving, and this podcast is great for that!)

I think Jay is shady as f**k. I hope there is some kind of pay off at the end.

If Jay didn't do it, my money is on the girl in the intro who can't pronounce mailchimp.

Rosy Posy

Mr E wrote: »

Caught up over the weekend (lots of driving, and this podcast is great for that!)

I think Jay is shady as f**k. I hope there is some kind of pay off at the end.

If Jay didn't do it, my money is on the girl in the intro who can't pronounce mailchimp.

Mail.....kimp? I'd say she's scarleh right now. I'm interested in how they're going to go there with Jay without defaming him- they can say he's a liar because there's evidence for that but she's walking the line legally if she speculates. I'm keen to know where the Innocence Project is at with the DNA testing.

Rabo Karabekian

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Mail.....kimp? I'd say she's scarleh right now. I'm interested in how they're going to go there with Jay without defaming him- they can say he's a liar because there's evidence for that but she's walking the line legally if she speculates. I'm keen to know where the Innocence Project is at with the DNA testing.

I always thought defamation was a lot harder to do in America but not sure (and not sure if it's different with regards to murder cases).

Interesting to see that 'all important' 2.36 call has been completely discredited (which it essentially was around episode 3 or 4 with Asia's (?) testimony) which means that Jay was (definitely?) lying but then he's been doing that since the beginning. I wonder if the discrediting of this call might not actually harm Adnan's case? As in, could himself and Jay not have committed the acts later on in the day? Not sure how this would work with regards to the timeline.

keane2097

Adnan seems to constantly be on the verge of tripping himself up in the phone interviews and then goes completely silent mid-sentence.

There was an incident in episode 6 where he was complaining about how people say "the Adnan they knew couldn't have done it" and he is half way through saying "sure I was the same Adnan when I did it" before he realises what he's at and stops talking, then makes an awkward direction change in what he was saying.

Unlikely he wasn't heavily involved IMO, although I reckon he shouldn't have been convicted at the time.

Giruilla

keane2097 wrote: »

Unlikely he wasn't heavily involved IMO, although I reckon he shouldn't have been convicted at the time.

What did he need Jay's help with, why get him involved?

There is absolutely zero evidence linking Adnan to the murder besides Jay's testimony. Everything else - like saying he's on the verge of tripping himself up - is conjecture.

Yet Jay, knew where the body was buried, how deep the hole was, position of the body, how Hae reacted when she was being killed, used his own shovel to to bury Hae, drove her car and knew where it was parked, lied to the police repeatedly and threw his clothes away the day after the murder. They're the hard facts of the case. And he's walking free.

keane2097

Giruilla wrote: »

What did he need Jay's help with, why get him involved?

There is absolutely zero evidence linking Adnan to the murder besides Jay's testimony. Everything else - like saying he's on the verge of tripping himself up - is conjecture.

Yet Jay, knew where the body was buried, how deep the hole was, position of the body, how Hae reacted when she was being killed, used his own shovel to to bury Hae, drove her car and knew where it was parked, lied to the police repeatedly and threw his clothes away the day after the murder. They're the hard facts of the case. And he's walking free.

Of course it's conjecture.

You're listening to a podcast spinning you a narrative for the last couple of weeks and think anything you think about the case is not part of a yarn?

Giruilla

keane2097 wrote: »

Of course it's conjecture.

You're listening to a podcast spinning you a narrative for the last couple of weeks and think anything you think about the case is not part of a yarn?

Considering it's based on real life, with recorded testimonies and evidence available on line, yes I'd think you can make solid assumptions based on facts - not conjecture - that are not part of a "yarn".

keane2097

Giruilla wrote: »

Considering it's based on real life, with recorded testimonies and evidence available on line, yes I'd think you can make solid assumptions based on facts - not conjecture - that are not part of a "yarn".

Good luck with it.

Giruilla

keane2097 wrote: »

Good luck with it.

Thanks. We'll see if Adnan finally admits he's guilty with a slip of the tongue in the final episode.

keane2097

Giruilla wrote: »

Thanks. We'll see if Adnan finally admits he's guilty with a slip of the tongue in the final episode.

Ship already sailed IMO

Sarah Koenig
But you know what Adnan? The people who have told me that they think either they sort of after a long time came to the conclusion that you were guilty or that-- or kinda like, “I don’t know, maybe, I never really--” they all at some point in the conversation almost everybody has said, “well the Adnan I knew didn’t do it. Like the guy I knew, couldn’t have do it.” But maybe--

Adnan Syed
What the hell does that even mean? I’m not like a different-- I wasn’t--

Turtyturd

Were you on the original jury?

Rabo Karabekian

keane2097 wrote: »

Ship already sailed IMO

That's still in the conjecture category. A slip of the tongue would be a definite confirmation of the fact.

As for whether Adnan needed Jay's help, I think the theory is that he needed him for an alibi (as in to bury the body and get back in time) but this doesn't really fit, as, according to Jay, they seemed to spend a lot of that time taking detours to buy (and smoke) weed. It's also very strange to include someone that you're not all that close to in order to get an alibi but forget that you may have implicated yourself in the murder by providing a witness.

Jay was, of course, definitely involved (he gave the info re Hae's car to the police) but the only firm 'evidence' re Adnan's guilt is Jay's testimony. That's a bizarre situation for anyone to be spending half their life in prison.

keane2097

Adnan's lack of finger-pointing at Jay seems bizarre to me regardless of who did what.

Mr E

Episode 10 today?

podgemonster

It's Out!

The Best Defense is A Good Defense!

steve_r

So the story continues......

Reading a few of the comments on reddit, they feel that Sarah's comment at the end regarding the next episode is a bit of a dig at some of the theories coming out of that site.

I binged the show, started Monday and caught up today so I read this thread start to finish. Not wanting to spoil the fun, but I do think this article poses a lot of questions about the show itself:
http://thinkprogress.org/culture/2014/11/20/3595208/the-ethics-of-serial/

I'll still listen to the show, and I think it's great storytelling but I do feel uncomfortable about it.

Rosy Posy

steve_r wrote: »

Reading a few of the comments on reddit, they feel that Sarah's comment at the end regarding the next episode is a bit of a dig at some of the theories coming out of that .

I enjoy dipping into the discussion on reddit but I find the tone of some of the posters to be self-entitled or maybe grandiose is a better word? While there is a lot of discussion on there about the possibility of Adnan being psychopathic or sociopathic I do think that that's one of the only reasonable alternatives to his innocence, and one that Sarah has explored previously- not much to do with the site.

I do hope she gets to the bottom of the sh!tstorm that went down there a few weeks ago with someone known to the family accusing Adnan of being a theiving, 'strumpet' frequenting psycho.

I felt that the way she explored the way that islamophobia may have impacted the outcome was really well done and definitely refutes the claims of 'white reporter privilege' that have been made against her.

steve_r

I think the fanatics on Reddit certain push the conversation off the rails. I haven't delved too deeply into it.

A good point was made on the Slate podcast about how new information that comes out of the show impacts the overall case. I'd be worried that people want to get themselves involved for the wrong reasons.

I'd agree as well that it would be great if they got to the bottom of that theory. As it stands, it's either a troll or true.

Birneybau

Thought it was a bit of a 'filler' episode myself. (ep. 10)

Dots1982

Birneybau wrote: »

Thought it was a bit of a 'filler' episode myself. (ep. 10)

No. The lawyers performance was alluded to as early as ep 1 so it was an over due examination of this.

brick tamland

Has it been mentioned how many episodes there are will be in the series?

Rosy Posy

Dots1982 wrote: »

No. The lawyers performance was alluded to as early as ep 1 so it was an over due examination of this.

This. I've been waiting to hear about the trial for ages. I also thought the stuff on islamophobia was really interesting. I did feel that in Sarah's quest to remain impartial/preserve the did he/didn't he tension, that she held back a bit on both counts. If you look at Rabia's commentary on her blog it seems that there was a clear case of negligence and that the lawyer was taking them for a ride financially at least. I also feel that, given that she opened her investigation into the place that race played in the legal proceedings with 'not buying it', that she could have concluded that portion with a clarifying 'so it seems that racism was a factor, not the only factor but a contributing one'.

bearhugs

brick tamland wrote: »

Has it been mentioned how many episodes there are will be in the series?

I think I read somewhere that there would be 13.

Rosy Posy

bearhugs wrote: »

I think I read somewhere that there would be 13.

They said around 12 initially- as long as it takes to get to the bottom of it, apparently. I imagine they'll finish up before Christmas but maybe do a follow up if more information comes to light- on the appeals and the innocence project.

Mr E

I'm still not sure what to make of Christina. On one hand, she is portrayed as a bulldog and thorough. On the other hand, why did she not subpoena Asia? And what did she do with the money (for "jury experts")?

steve_r

Well we know Sarah K did a lot of reporting on Christina before she started looking at this trial, so I'd say there's a lot more that she knows that wouldn't necessarily be publicly available.

Re: the Asia thing - there was a theory that she was just lying to provide Adnan with an alibi. Plus when they looked at that it was fairly weird in terms of her being un-contactable. It probably still should have been looked at in the trial though.

Christina's health and money issues almost certainly didn't help matters, but considering the first jury were heading for acquittal, I'm starting to think those things got the better of her as time went by, as opposed to her botching or throwing the case.

steve_r

Also, unrelated, I'm re-watching the wire atm, and last night it showed them going to Leakin park to look for a body.

Pretty unnerving when you are following a different story about a real person found there.