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Is it still 1971 in Ireland? The contraceptive train still runs - Under another name.

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    #32
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The findings of the inquiries found the abortion laws had nothing to do with her death.

    She is a woman who has been used, legislate for X was the chant back then, that legislation would have done nothing for her.

    Dr Peter Boylan said women are putting their lives at risk by importing abortion pills.

    Also it is interesting the company that made Zyklon B to gas Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, the disabled and others is the same company that came up with the abortion pill.
    Interesting that trains were involved today.


    Do you think women should be prevented from leaving Ireland if their purpose for travel is to kill the unborn?


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    #33
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Very cryptic, care to elaborate?

    I presume its the usual anti choice holocaust reference. Because ending a pregnancy is the same as mass murder or some such.


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    #34
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,408 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    lazygal wrote: »
    Why are the circumstances of conception relevant to whether a woman can have an abortion?

    I was replying to the poster who said the MAP is as good. Not everyone who is raped reports it for whatever reason and therefore does not get the MAP. Fwiw i'm pro choice and believe a woman shouldn't have to travel to another country to get an abortion.


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    #35
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    lazygal wrote: »
    Do you think women should be prevented from leaving Ireland if their purpose for travel is to kill the unborn?

    It is in the constitution they can travel.


    It is illegal and against the law to bring abortion pills into the state.

    We can have anarchy and only pick the laws that suit us and ignore the laws we don't agree with.


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    #36
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is in the constitution they can travel.


    It is illegal and against the law to bring abortion pills into the state.

    We can have anarchy and only pick the laws that suit us and ignore the laws we don't agree with.

    Do you think the right to travel to kill the unborn should be repealed? We prevent people from traveling to abuse born children. Do the unborn deserve that protection?


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    #37
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,408 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is in the constitution they can travel.


    It is illegal and against the law to bring abortion pills into the state.

    We can have anarchy and only pick the laws that suit us and ignore the laws we don't agree with.

    Yet no one was arrested at Connelly station today.


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    #38
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    You don't actually become a father until the child is born, in the very same way as a woman doesn't become a mother until she actually gives birth to a child.

    Oh yes,I forgot that women became pregnant by themselves and found a father afterwards.

    The father is the father from the time of insemination and there after,to say that the father should have no say into the way that life is carried or terminated is discriminatory to that party.


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    #39
    sheesh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭sheesh


    While I agree with giving women choice to have an abortion and be able to have it in Ireland, the reason is that there was a vote and people voted to have it that way, thats democracy.

    I think a vote like this should be done every 10 years or so to see what people think.

    In Britain the US and I'm sure other countries it was the decision of a couple of judges. They were not asked.

    Because the way the amendment is written I would not be so sure that it will be removed if it is put to a vote. Remember you will voting to remove the right to life of the unborn, this will push all sorts of emotional buttons with people and they will definitely turn out, the pro abortion crowd will also turn out but the middle ground made up of disinterested males and older women could go either way (I think).

    Personally I think it the decision should be left to the woman.


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    #40
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Oh yes,I forgot that women became pregnant by themselves and found a father afterwards.

    The father is the father from the time of insemination and there after,to say that the father should have no say into the way that life is carried or terminated is discriminatory to that party.

    What say, exactly, should the man have when a woman is pregnant?


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    #41
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Lapin wrote: »
    Who are they handing the pills out to?

    They went to Belfast to obtain the pills for themselves and are campaigning for the right to themselves and others to have similar access to them south of the border.

    A very dignified protest in my opinion.


    So they are all going to have abortions now or something? Of course those pills are not simply for themselves. They could protest by voting for candidates that would change the law, not simply by breaking the law themselves.


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    #42
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    The day that a male can have a parasite (fetus) grow inside his body, causing permanent change to his body, is the day he may make decisions for the woman and have the fetus transplanted into himself should he want it.

    Most women do not have abortions lightly. It is not a decision that they generally take without giving it a lot of thought.

    And how about the permanent change to the fathers life who wanted the child,that doesn't count for anything no?


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    #43
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Very cryptic, care to elaborate?

    It is not very cryptic. The same company that made Zyklon B is the same company that gave us the abortion pill.
    Trains were used to bring people to be gassed at concentration camps, a train was used today to bring a product designed by the same company that produced Zyklon B.
    Two of their killing products, and the idiots today probably didn't see how tasteless it was to use a train...given the association between the abortion pill, and the company that produced the gas for gas chambers in WW2.
    In both cases their victims had to be trapped for their product to work.


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    #44
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    sheesh wrote: »
    While I agree with giving women choice to have an abortion and be able to have it in Ireland, the reason is that there was a vote and people voted to have it that way, thats democracy.

    I think a vote like this should be done every 10 years or so to see what people think.

    In Britain the US and I'm sure other countries it was the decision of a couple of judges. They were not asked.

    Because the way the amendment is written I would not be so sure that it will be removed if it is put to a vote. Remember you will voting to remove the right to life of the unborn, this will push all sorts of emotional buttons with people and they will definitely turn out, the pro abortion crowd will also turn out but the middle ground made up of disinterested males and older women could go either way (I think).

    Personally I think it the decision should be left to the woman.

    The unborn right to life is not vindicated at all by our constitution. We allow the unborn to be taken elsewhere to be killed and we protect the right to information on how and where to go to kill the unborn in the constitution. Apparently the right to life only exists when a woman doesn't or can't go abroad.


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    #45
    BBJBIG
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭BBJBIG


    There was no sex in Oireland before the TV.
    And in 1971 the only contraceptive consisted of a swift kick in the Nuts.
    That'd learn ya, bai, to zip up yer mickie ...


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    #46
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    lazygal wrote: »
    What say, exactly, should the man have when a woman is pregnant?

    Both the man and woman should be able to prove that all avenues have been exhausted and abortion is the final step.


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    #47
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Yet no one was arrested at Connelly station today.

    They should have been.

    Maybe the police are too busy with the real love/hate stuff that is going on in Dublin.


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    #48
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Both the man and woman should be able to prove that all avenues have been exhausted and abortion is the final step.

    Why isn't "I don't want to remain pregnant" reason enough?
    Pregnancy is crap. No woman or child should have to go through it because someone else wants them to against their wishes.


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    What a farce. Emergency contraception is readily available in Ireland. http://www.ifpa.ie/node/72 What is not readily available is abortion. That is the Law, as voted by several times by the people.


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    #50
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    lazygal wrote: »
    The unborn right to life is not vindicated at all by our constitution. We allow the unborn to be taken elsewhere to be killed and we protect the right to information on how and where to go to kill the unborn in the constitution. Apparently the right to life only exists when a woman doesn't or can't go abroad.


    So will pro-choice then shut up about looking for the 8th amendment to be removed if the unborn's right to life is not vindicated in the constitution?


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    #51
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What a farce. Emergency contraception is readily available in Ireland. http://www.ifpa.ie/node/72 What is not readily available is abortion. That is the Law, as voted by several times by the people.

    Emergency contraception is not always effective.


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    #52
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    The One Doctor wrote: »
    Abortion is not contraception.


    Agreed. Thread title is very misleading.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lazygal wrote: »
    Emergency contraception is not always effective.

    But it IS available.


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    #54
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So will pro-choice then shut up about looking for the 8th amendment to be removed if the unborn's right to life is not vindicated in the constitution?

    Do you think the right to travel and information on how to kill the unborn should be available in Ireland?
    Do women who can't travel have any options other than remaining pregnant?


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    #55
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But it IS available.

    But it doesn't always work. What happens then?


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    #56
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Lapin wrote: »
    In a echo to a time only 43 years ago when women travelled north to 'smuggle' condoms into the Republic because contraception was banned here,

    I can't believe it's that long since myself and my then boyfriend obtained condoms on prescription! We had to pretend to be engaged. It was still illegal, but the Family Planning Association allowed prescriptions for condoms if you were married or engaged.

    Ah well. They weren't that effective it turned out and I found myself having to go to the UK.
    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    And how about the permanent change to the fathers life who wanted the child,that doesn't count for anything no?

    What permanent changes happen his body?


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    #57
    Gongoozler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭Gongoozler


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is not very cryptic. The same company that made Zyklon B is the same company that gave us the abortion pill.
    Trains were used to bring people to be gassed at concentration camps, a train was used today to bring a product designed by the same company that produced Zyklon B.
    Two of their killing products, and the idiots today probably didn't see how tasteless it was to use a train...given the association between the abortion pill, and the company that produced the gas for gas chambers in WW2.
    In both cases their victims had to be trapped for their product to work.

    Jesus, at least try make some sort of argument for your side. That's just embarrassing.

    It was the trains all along!!1!


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    #58
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    lazygal wrote: »
    Do you think the right to travel and information on how to kill the unborn should be available in Ireland?
    Do women who can't travel have any options other than remaining pregnant?

    The people voted for it so we should accept it.

    There are more options than just abortion if pregnant.


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    #59
    Gongoozler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭Gongoozler


    So the pills that these people got today were they prescription only pills?


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    #60
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Gongoozler wrote: »
    Jesus, at least try make some sort of argument for your side. That's just embarrassing.

    It was the trains all along!!1!


    Sorry maybe it was cryptic.


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    #61
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    Patser wrote: »
    Everyday this week hundreds of Irish people will travel North of the border, buy objects illegal in the Republic and smuggle them across the border, home. Will Ruth Coppinger be there to support all these people Halloween Night when they let off these fireworks!

    I don't know about Coppinger, but I think fireworks should be available for sale in the republic. Another example of our governments knowing whats best for us.
    Patser wrote: »
    Similarly will she greet Stag Parties returning from Amsterdam, saying Irish Towns should now have Red Light districts and coffee shops?

    Likewise.
    In fact I believe Irish towns and cities should have designated red light districts where the sex industry can operate legally and those who work in it can do so safely. As it stands, our authorities are content to ignore it (yet avail of it in some cases), and turn their backs on the exploitation of many workers in the industry.
    Patser wrote: »
    Or do you think it's ok for a TD to break some laws, so long as you agree with them.

    If such laws are are commonplace elsewhere (as the three examples above are) and the TD shows highlights the stupidity of the laws by breaking them, then yes, Coppinger served a good purpose by breaking them.
    Patser wrote: »
    Fwiw I agree these pills should be allowed in Ireland but should be prescription only (or in consultation with a pharmacist) , they can be pretty hard hitting on those that take them, and IMO shouldn't be just something you get in the mail.

    The pills are available on prescription here already in very limited cases.

    Just like condoms were in 1971


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