Electric cars

Joe Doe

Would be tempted by a bike (HarleyD) Soft-tail or LiveWire which can go 0-60mph in 4 seconds and has a range of 130 miles. Would need a bit more fairing on it to keep out the rain though.

One concern with all electrics is about what type of EMG field is produced when your sitting in/on what is effectively a very small electrical power plant.

Has been advisable for ages never to sleep or be in close proximity to the fuse/electric box in your house, so what about 2hrs a day inside a metal cage of batteries?

few random links 1 2 3

Naturally lots of reports/research out there could be 'industry sponsored'.
Anybody with a field meter should maybe do a few tests for abnormalities.

Irish Steve

The 3008 we had for a couple of day (hire car), did 120 Miles, (UK), on about 8 Litres, no motorway all A roads, which I was impressed with, once I'd worked out how to get the thing to move at all.

Just been reading an interesting blog about an Irish Leaf owner's experience, and it was interesting, if for no other reason than to find that the biggest hassle is the non availability of charging points, either due to recurring faults, or people parking cars in the spaces by the chargers inappropriately.

I then looked at the map of charge points around here, and there's 1, that's it, nothing else within a pretty long run,, especially going North.

Electric is going to happen, but there will be problems before they are universally accepted, and some of those problems will need to be sorted by Government. They are not really interested in doing so, partly because they are still desperate for the tax they get on the use of carbon fuels, and if that take goes down, they'll have to replace it somehow, and as we're seeing at the moment with the IW debacle, that's not proving as easy as they thought it was going to be.

I'd consider electric for one of our vehicles, as the normal trips are short enough to not be an issue. The other vehicle won't be so easy to replace, I've not seen any electric 4 x 4's yet, and my crew cab is an all round general purpose vehicle that gets loaded on occasions, and tows trailers as well, that's not really electric vehicle country just yet.

nokia69

Sonics2k wrote: »

Tesla Model D is 0-60 in 30 seconds with a driving distance of aboit 400 miles on a charge. Better than my car by far.

I think you mean 3.2 seconds

Rhys Essien

Irish Steve wrote: »

I've not seen any electric 4 x 4's yet

Simon Coveney is driving this.

http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/outlander/explore-phev.aspx

ted1

WhiteWalls wrote: »

Donal Og Cusack was on RTE 1 there and he said that in ten years time 50% of us will be its bedriving electric cars? Very skeptical myself and find it hard to believe.

With the price of petrol and the developments in hybrids and batteries it's very believable.

Sam Kade

ted1 wrote: »

With the price of petrol and the developments in hybrids and batteries it's very believable.

Not much developments in hybrids when they get them to 100 mpg and the same price or fairly close to standard cars that will be development

nokia69

Sam Kade wrote: »

Not much developments in hybrids when they get them to 100 mpg and the same price or fairly close to standard cars that will be development

the plug in prius gets over 100mpg

the volt/ampera can be even better depending oh how you drive it

errlloyd

Can't believe people are dissing the 0-60 speed, acceleration is pretty much the strongest feature of electric cars. No Turbo-lag or gear changes mean they accelerate pretty quickly indeed.

As for the poster on the first page who said the battery takes up space, it takes up a lot less space than an Engine, Turbo, Fuel tank etc. One of the reasons the Teslas are so safe is the lack of an engine makes the car lighter and allows for larger crumple zones.

I'd do anything for a Tesla Model S right now. It's an amazing car, shame they're more expensive second hand than new.

ted1

Sam Kade wrote: »

Not much developments in hybrids when they get them to 100 mpg and the same price or fairly close to standard cars that will be development

Have you seen what the new Mitsubishi outlander can do? About 144 mpg.

The same price? Petrol now costs about 16 euro to drive 100km. So when comparing prices you need to include the cost of ownership

ted1

Sam Kade wrote: »

What happens when the battery dies which it will and you're faced with a €7k replacement cost?

Most companies have rental schemes so you just change the battery and don't have to worry about replacment costs. Tesla have super charger stations like petrol station except they just swap out the battery faster than it takes to fill a car with petrol so once again no worries about battery life

policarp

TheZohan wrote: »

What would a bogballer from Cork know?

Something.
Maybe nothing.
But something.

martinedwards

Ireland is a rural country.

live in Dublin and never leave the city?

current tech electric is viable.

but if you need to load the kids and stick on a roofbox to go on a weekend break in Cork then it all goes a little pear shaped.

Personally, I commute 20 miles each way to work. electric would be grand

when I need to go and collect my son from Uni in Durham?

no good at all.

as a city car they're great.

but there is no way we could have BOTH our cars electric AT CURRENT TECNOLOGY.

and as for the 8 year guarantee?

I sold my Diesel Seat Alhambra last week. 15 years old, 180K miles and still giving 40mpg.

I bought a 10 year old Getz.

I'm 100% confident in a old tech engine to last 15 years and 150K or more.

electric?

if I buy an OLD car for £200 (like my Getz) I expect to have to pay a few quid here and there. this one needs a sump..... £80.

NOT £7000 for new batteries.

recyclops

Don't the Tesla range come with an adapter which turns essentially any plug into a charger.

They have released all there patents to speed up the evolution of the electric car

Should I ever win the lotto my dream car is a model S. Here is what it's like to own one

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s

Zen65

Joe Doe wrote: »

One concern with all electrics is about what type of EMG field is produced when your sitting in/on what is effectively a very small electrical power plant.

Has been advisable for ages never to sleep or be in close proximity to the fuse/electric box in your house, so what about 2hrs a day inside a metal cage of batteries?

Electric cars use DC technology for all the motive drives, so there is near-zero EMF from them. There is of course a ripple on the DC but the impact will be about the same as a standard laptop.

The metal cage reference is misguided. If you are inside a metal cage you are shielded from electric fields - that's the basis of the Faraday cage being the safest place to be in a lightning storm.

All cars have some EMF in them of course, but the field strength is so low that it's probably true to say that time spent in a car (electric or conventional) is time spent away from EMF.

NIMAN

They will happen, whether we like it or not.

Once they develop a car that can drive about 300 miles on a charge, they will sell well.

ShadowHearth

Maybe not in 10 years, but it will happen. I would love to see all these ****y diesels die and be replaced by electric cars.

For me fully electric car would be perfect, but I cant afford to buy Nissan leaf right now. I'm the future I could see it as a perfect daily runaround and going to work car, while having something fun for weekend.

Sabre Man

ted1 wrote: »

Most companies have rental schemes so you just change the battery and don't have to worry about replacment costs. Tesla have super charger stations like petrol station except they just swap out the battery faster than it takes to fill a car with petrol so once again no worries about battery life

Tesla superchargers are just very fast chargers. As far as I know battery swapping in not currently offered but was demonstrated the way you describe it a number of months ago.

sammy37

I cant see governments pushing electric cars not with the huge revenue they get from petrol, diesel and car tax as the tax is low on electric. Otherwise they will have to find some way of taxing these cars other than using carbon tax as an excuse.

Zen65

sammy37 wrote: »

I cant see governments pushing electric cars not with the huge revenue they get from petrol, diesel and car tax . . .

It is the car companies that are pushing these cars initially, as their carbon tax obligations are based on the average emissions of their fleet, and these targets are lowering into the future. They need to sell electric vehicles so they can continue to produce high-end petrol & diesel cars.

Governments will diversify their taxation strategies to compensate for the loss of income from cars & fossil fuels e.g. water charges. Then as the prices of electric cars fall the levels of road tax will rise.

mickdw

Irish Steve wrote: »

None of us were expecting F1 to be using the degree of electric power that they are, so it's possible.
.

F1 is using hybrid power, the only electric involved is obtained from regeneration under breaking etc Similar to the hybrid lexus range.

That is a very important difference. Range is the major issue with full electric cars and as such they can have limited take up.
The immediate future in my opinion in with plug in hybrid. It can be loaded up with cheap electricity at night yet also has the hybrid power twin or at least internal combustion engine powered generation equipment on board. No range problems.

sammy37

Zen65 wrote: »

It is the car companies that are pushing these cars initially, as their carbon tax obligations are based on the average emissions of their fleet, and these targets are lowering into the future. They need to sell electric vehicles so they can continue to produce high-end petrol & diesel cars.

Governments will diversify their taxation strategies to compensate for the loss of income from cars & fossil fuels e.g. water charges. Then as the prices of electric cars fall the levels of road tax will rise.

I see what you are saying but i cant see any government pushing the loss of vehicle fuel tax back into general taxation and there is only so much they can rise motor tax by to keep these electric cars affordable.

super_furry

Charging time remains a problem too. If you have to leave it charging for anything over an hour, it make longer journeys where you have to stop problematic.

Sonics2k

nokia69 wrote: »

I think you mean 3.2 seconds

You're right, completely missed that typo.

Edgarfrndly

Range is only an issue now for some electric cars, it will be a complete non-issue in the near-future with advancement of battery technology. Tesla's model S has a 420km range. To put that into perspective, that would allow someone to drive from Waterford to Donegal on a single charge. This will only improve with time. Elon Musk said that ranges of up to 800km in the very near future, and that it's already possible but just not at a convenient price point. They are also a releasing a cheaper car in the next 2 or 3 years to make their technology more available.

Electric cars are absolutely the future.

TimeToShine

People seem to forget that a "charge" involves restructuring the grid and the connection to your home such that your car can be used as a generator at night. This idea that tens of thousands of electric vehicles will seamlessly blend into the power grid by charging at night when electrical demand is low is being exposed very quickly. Utility companies are worried about demand overloads at night which could cause black outs, street level transformers are notorious for being the grids weakest link and since these cars need quite a bit of power (~10kW I would guess) they could easily burn these out very frequently. Also, it's important to note that most utility companies undersize these transformers so they can cool overnight...it would involve a complete revamp of the system which is not in anybody's financial interest.

In short, it would take quite a lot for the current smart grids and power system operations to change in this country - and electric cars are only a fractal consideration in this regard.

ted1

TimeToShine wrote: »

People seem to forget that a "charge" involves restructuring the grid and the connection to your home such that your car can be used as a generator at night. This idea that tens of thousands of electric vehicles will seamlessly blend into the power grid by charging at night when electrical demand is low is being exposed very quickly. Utility companies are worried about demand overloads at night which could cause black outs, street level transformers are notorious for being the grid's weakest link and since these cars need quite a bit of power (~10kW I would guess) they could easily burn these out very frequently. Also, it's important to note that most utility companies undersize these transformers so they can cool overnight...it would involve a complete revamp of the system which is not in anybody's financial institutions interest.

In short, it would take quite a lot for the current smart grids and power system operations to change in this country - and electric cars are only a fractal consideration in this regard.

Not quite true. It suits better to have the usage at night. I've done a thesis that involved looking at charging at night. And the pros and cons.
At the moment wind is being curtailed be cause we have so much of it, also as demand is so low at night plants are power plants are cycling, ( this increases CO2/ kwh )
Charging cars at night wood be no worse than peak hours when electric cookers/ kettles/ heaters are being used.

What a smart grid can do is look at the wind pattern and control the demand on the grid. It only takes a few hours to charge a car, so the grid can stagger charging and schedule 10% of cars to charge eRky in the night and 90% to start charging at 3am when there's loads of renewables.

Starokan

I'd imagine the electric car will go from strength to strength. Could we see 50% of the car usage being electric within ten years, I guess it depends on the more developed countries adopting the change. If enough incentives are given as in serious trade in value or similar, service points built then Its possible. Ten years is a short time span though. Twenty might be more realistic.

nokia69

martinedwards wrote: »

Ireland is a rural country.

live in Dublin and never leave the city?

current tech electric is viable.

but if you need to load the kids and stick on a roofbox to go on a weekend break in Cork then it all goes a little pear shaped.

Personally, I commute 20 miles each way to work. electric would be grand

when I need to go and collect my son from Uni in Durham?

no good at all.

as a city car they're great.

but there is no way we could have BOTH our cars electric AT CURRENT TECNOLOGY.

and as for the 8 year guarantee?

I sold my Diesel Seat Alhambra last week. 15 years old, 180K miles and still giving 40mpg.

I bought a 10 year old Getz.

I'm 100% confident in a old tech engine to last 15 years and 150K or more.

electric?

if I buy an OLD car for £200 (like my Getz) I expect to have to pay a few quid here and there. this one needs a sump..... £80.

NOT £7000 for new batteries.

but how much do you spend on petrol/diesel every year, how much do you spend on oil changes and parts ect

the batteries in a model S will last decades if the charge is kept between 20% to 80%

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Irish Steve wrote: »

None of us were expecting F1 to be using the degree of electric power that they are, so it's possible.

I spent a couple of days driving a Peugeot 3008 hybrid a few weeks back, and it was impressive both in terms of the economy and the performance.

All electric will have 2 drawbacks, the first is the range, the second will be that the battery needs a lot of space, so that's going to limit the space available for other things. On the range aspect, it's all very well saying that you can charge on the way to the eventual destination, but if you are taking small children, having to stop every hour or so to charge for 30 minutes will be a serious imposition on the travel time, or expensive if the break is taken in a service point.

I'm also nervous right now about the long term stability and reliability of LiPo batteries, there have been some serious fire issues with LiPo in the B787's (aircraft) , and I've also seen some serious fires on the same types of batteries that are now common in radio controlled models, and they can be serious fires, very intense very quickly.

A lot will depend on how the relevant political controls make electric power attractive or not. Right now, there's not a lot of incentive to move to electric, and the cost of electric is not making it easy to move over to them.

There will also be significant issues with the life of the energy storage systems, if a vehicle does not have the life span of present fossil powered vehicles, that's going to be a problem in terms of the initial cost, and the maintenance cost over the life of the vehicle.

This is the kind of stuff Shell and other oil companies spew. The ratio of fires in petrol/diesel fires is higher than that of electrical cars. But as Shell et al, don't want electric cars to succeed, they tar them with this trash talk.

sh1tstirrer

ted1 wrote: »

Have you seen what the new Mitsubishi outlander can do? About 144 mpg.

The same price? Petrol now costs about 16 euro to drive 100km. So when comparing prices you need to include the cost of ownership

What's the price of the outlander? I'm sure it's well beyond the reach of the average motorist.