Electric cars

WhiteWalls

Donal Og Cusack was on RTE 1 there and he said that in ten years time 50% of us will be driving electric cars? Very skeptical myself and find it hard to believe.

brummytom

My mom had one for a year about 2 years ago. Couldn't fault it at all. The only problem at the moment is the price.

Fr_Dougal

WhiteWalls wrote: »

Donal Og Cusack was on RTE 1 there and he said that in ten years time 50% of us will be driving electric cars? Very skeptical myself and find it hard to believe.

What would a bogballer from Cork know?

crazygeryy

And he's the one who would know.

WhiteWalls

He never claimed to be an expert, he is heading up some project in Cork in relation to this.

maringo

The price needs to take a drop before I'd consider buying.

Irish Steve

None of us were expecting F1 to be using the degree of electric power that they are, so it's possible.

I spent a couple of days driving a Peugeot 3008 hybrid a few weeks back, and it was impressive both in terms of the economy and the performance.

All electric will have 2 drawbacks, the first is the range, the second will be that the battery needs a lot of space, so that's going to limit the space available for other things. On the range aspect, it's all very well saying that you can charge on the way to the eventual destination, but if you are taking small children, having to stop every hour or so to charge for 30 minutes will be a serious imposition on the travel time, or expensive if the break is taken in a service point.

I'm also nervous right now about the long term stability and reliability of LiPo batteries, there have been some serious fire issues with LiPo in the B787's (aircraft) , and I've also seen some serious fires on the same types of batteries that are now common in radio controlled models, and they can be serious fires, very intense very quickly.

A lot will depend on how the relevant political controls make electric power attractive or not. Right now, there's not a lot of incentive to move to electric, and the cost of electric is not making it easy to move over to them.

There will also be significant issues with the life of the energy storage systems, if a vehicle does not have the life span of present fossil powered vehicles, that's going to be a problem in terms of the initial cost, and the maintenance cost over the life of the vehicle.

Specialun

0-60 in 3.25.......days

nokia69

WhiteWalls wrote: »

Donal Og Cusack was on RTE 1 there and he said that in ten years time 50% of us will be driving electric cars? Very skeptical myself and find it hard to believe.

50% no chance of that, but there will be plenty of them on the roads

the Tesla model E is the car that will signal the end of the ICE

nokia69

Irish Steve wrote: »

None of us were expecting F1 to be using the degree of electric power that they are, so it's possible.

I spent a couple of days driving a Peugeot 3008 hybrid a few weeks back, and it was impressive both in terms of the economy and the performance.

All electric will have 2 drawbacks, the first is the range, the second will be that the battery needs a lot of space, so that's going to limit the space available for other things. On the range aspect, it's all very well saying that you can charge on the way to the eventual destination, but if you are taking small children, having to stop every hour or so to charge for 30 minutes will be a serious imposition on the travel time, or expensive if the break is taken in a service point.

I'm also nervous right now about the long term stability and reliability of LiPo batteries, there have been some serious fire issues with LiPo in the B787's (aircraft) , and I've also seen some serious fires on the same types of batteries that are now common in radio controlled models, and they can be serious fires, very intense very quickly.

A lot will depend on how the relevant political controls make electric power attractive or not. Right now, there's not a lot of incentive to move to electric, and the cost of electric is not making it easy to move over to them.

There will also be significant issues with the life of the energy storage systems, if a vehicle does not have the life span of present fossil powered vehicles, that's going to be a problem in terms of the initial cost, and the maintenance cost over the life of the vehicle.

the maintenance and running costs are less with an electric car

IMO the best car in the world is the Tesla model S, just look at the videos on youtube

the future is electric

Tail Docker

nokia69 wrote: »

the maintenance and running costs are less with an electric car

IMO the best car in the world is the Tesla model S, just look at the videos on youtube

the future is electric

Doubtful. Check the residual values on Nissan Leafs..idealists buy them, the range wears thin, they give them away..poor idealists buy them... Your average filling station has zero charge points. The posh ones have two...go figure.

Kevin McCloud

It will be a long while before i see an electric loading shovel or track machine.

toadfly

I have a Leaf, love it. Costs me a hell of a lot less a month to run. It's got great power too, you should drive it before you give out about 0-60 :P

nokia69

Tail Docker wrote: »

Doubtful. Check the residual values on Nissan Leafs..idealists buy them, the range wears thin, they give them away..poor idealists buy them... Your average filling station has zero charge points. The posh ones have two...go figure.

the Leaf is a good car and most owners like it, I almost bought one myself but I'm waiting for the Tesla model E

200 miles per charge, 4 wheel drive, 0 to 60 in 3 seconds for about 30K euro, they won't be able to build them fast enough

Kevin McCloud

toadfly wrote: »

I have a Leaf, love it. Costs me a hell of a lot less a month to run. It's got great power too, you should drive it before you give out about 0-60 :P

How do you find its range?

Sam Kade

Irish Steve wrote: »

None of us were expecting F1 to be using the degree of electric power that they are, so it's possible.

I spent a couple of days driving a Peugeot 3008 hybrid a few weeks back, and it was impressive both in terms of the economy and the performance.

All electric will have 2 drawbacks, the first is the range, the second will be that the battery needs a lot of space, so that's going to limit the space available for other things. On the range aspect, it's all very well saying that you can charge on the way to the eventual destination, but if you are taking small children, having to stop every hour or so to charge for 30 minutes will be a serious imposition on the travel time, or expensive if the break is taken in a service point.

I'm also nervous right now about the long term stability and reliability of LiPo batteries, there have been some serious fire issues with LiPo in the B787's (aircraft) , and I've also seen some serious fires on the same types of batteries that are now common in radio controlled models, and they can be serious fires, very intense very quickly.

A lot will depend on how the relevant political controls make electric power attractive or not. Right now, there's not a lot of incentive to move to electric, and the cost of electric is not making it easy to move over to them.

There will also be significant issues with the life of the energy storage systems, if a vehicle does not have the life span of present fossil powered vehicles, that's going to be a problem in terms of the initial cost, and the maintenance cost over the life of the vehicle.

To check the true value of a hybrid you need to get the difference in mpg between a standard car and a hybrid and see what you will save on fuel over a year then divide that saving by the extra cost of the hybrid and you will get the number of years you need to drive it to recoup the initial cost. I did it for the Yaris last week and it would take almost 8 years to break even between the standard and hybrid if doing 12k miles yearly. Suddenly the hybrid seems bad value

Sam Kade

nokia69 wrote: »

the Leaf is a good car and most owners like it, I almost bought one myself but I'm waiting for the Tesla model E

200 miles per charge, 4 wheel drive, 0 to 60 in 3 seconds for about 30K euro, they won't be able to build them fast enough

What happens when the battery dies which it will and you're faced with a €7k replacement cost?

For Forks Sake

nokia69 wrote: »

50% no chance of that, but there will be plenty of them on the roads

the Tesla model E is the car that will signal the end of the ICE

Thats still going to come in at around 50k, hardly the car of the people.

And for the record, I like what Tesla are doing.

nokia69

Sam Kade wrote: »

What happens when the battery dies which it will and you're faced with a €7k replacement cost?

well for the model S the battery has an 8 year unlimited miles warranty, my guess is the mode E will be much the same

if the battery management system is done right then batteries can last for decades

nokia69

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Thats still going to come in at around 50k, hardly the car of the people.

And for the record, I like what Tesla are doing.

the price target for the car is 35K in the US, its hard to know what it will cost in Ireland with taxes VRT ect

AFAIK there is no VRT on electric cars but that will change when they become popular

kneemos

Sam Kade wrote: »

To check the true value of a hybrid you need to get the difference in mpg between a standard car and a hybrid and see what you will save on fuel over a year then divide that saving by the extra cost of the hybrid and you will get the number of years you need to drive it to recoup the initial cost. I did it for the Yaris last week and it would take almost 8 years
to break even between the standard and hybrid if doing 12k miles yearly. Suddenly the hybrid seems rbad value [/quote

What about resale?pretty low for a hybrid I'd imagine.

StudentDad

This reminds me of the arguments I heard as a kid regarding unleaded petrol. Oh no they said. There are no filling stations with unleaded they said. Etc etc.

At the moment the car manufacturers are testing the water. Nissan Leaf. Renault Zoe. I'm sure there are others.

I like the idea of a car that gives me the same performance etc as the current crop of cars on the market. Without the maintenance headaches.

If Skoda launched an electric Octavia or Ford came out with an electric Mondeo tomorrow and it was reasonably priced etc I would be tempted.

It's a bit like the petrol v diesel debate that used to go on. OMG you drive a diesel? How can you? Etc etc

The demand is there, the stumbling block as usual is the loss of revenue to the vested interests. You run an electric, you don't need as many spare parts, jimmy the mechanic has to re-train. Govt. doesn't get all those lovely euros in tax etc etc.

The technology is improving all the time. It is the economic interests who are dragging their heels.

SD

kyote00

Hard to see how there can be significant uptake until the range comes close to matching what we expect from a tank full of petrol/diesel.

The higher initial cost is a problem also IMHO - which might be offset by the
low cost of recharging --- but only if its a fast recharge

That said, as a second commuter car, I would be tempted but the range would need to be in the 200-300 range with lights on, one passenger and tools in the boot

toadfly

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

How do you find its range?

I'm a bit torn on that, day to day it's grand. Gets me in and out of work without charging during the day. Winter time is harder to manage. I've driven to Dublin airport with it twice from Galway and it was extremely stressful as obviously I had to be there by a certain time but managed fine both times. It's more charger anxiety than range anxiety. If we could rely on the chargers not being down it would be easier.

Drakares

WhiteWalls wrote: »

Donal Og Cusack was on RTE 1 there and he said that in ten years time 50% of us will be driving electric cars? Very skeptical myself and find it hard to believe.

Why?

Our company car can do around 250 kilometers fully charged and takes around 6 hours to recharge. In a few years the tech will be much better.

toadfly

kyote00 wrote: »

I would be tempted but the range would need to be in the 200-300 range with lights on, one passenger and tools in the boot

Lights, radio, wipers etc don't use up the main battery. There is a 12V battery that runs those. Mine has a solar panel in the spoiler that chargers up the 12V.

kneemos

kyote00 wrote: »

Hard to see how there can be significant uptake until the range comes close to matching what we expect from a tank full of petrol/diesel.

The higher initial cost is a problem also IMHO - which might be offset by the
low cost of recharging --- but only if its a fast recharge

That said, as a second commuter car, I would be tempted but the range would need to be in the 200-300 range with lights on, one passenger and tools in the boot

Not many willing to spend that kind of money on a second commuter car when you could get a very nice second hand one for a quarter of the price.

Rhys Essien

Grants are available to buy electric cars.Amounts here.

http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Electric_Vehicle_Grant_Scheme/EV_Grants/Grant_Amounts/

Id say if all electric cars were like the new BMW i8,we'd all be getting one albeit for the price.

http://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i8

kyote00

Must be a mighty solar panel !

Presumably the 12V is also charged via a aux belt of the main drive --- when the car is running ?

toadfly wrote: »

Lights, radio, wipers etc don't use up the main battery. There is a 12V battery that runs those. Mine has a solar panel in the spoiler that chargers up the 12V.

Sam Kade

kneemos wrote: »

Sam Kade wrote: »

To check the true value of a hybrid you need to get the difference in mpg between a standard car and a hybrid and see what you will save on fuel over a year then divide that saving by the extra cost of the hybrid and you will get the number of years you need to drive it to recoup the initial cost. I did it for the Yaris last week and it would take almost 8 years
to break even between the standard and hybrid if doing 12k miles yearly. Suddenly the hybrid seems rbad value [/quote

What about resale?pretty low for a hybrid I'd imagine.

It would be, hybrids are more suited to city driving as they don't get the same mpg on a motorway.

Sonics2k

Specialun wrote: »

0-60 in 3.25.......days

Tesla Model D is 0-60 in 30 seconds with a driving distance of aboit 400 miles on a charge. Better than my car by far.

Joe Doe

Would be tempted by a bike (HarleyD) Soft-tail or LiveWire which can go 0-60mph in 4 seconds and has a range of 130 miles. Would need a bit more fairing on it to keep out the rain though.

One concern with all electrics is about what type of EMG field is produced when your sitting in/on what is effectively a very small electrical power plant.

Has been advisable for ages never to sleep or be in close proximity to the fuse/electric box in your house, so what about 2hrs a day inside a metal cage of batteries?

few random links 1 2 3

Naturally lots of reports/research out there could be 'industry sponsored'.
Anybody with a field meter should maybe do a few tests for abnormalities.

Irish Steve

The 3008 we had for a couple of day (hire car), did 120 Miles, (UK), on about 8 Litres, no motorway all A roads, which I was impressed with, once I'd worked out how to get the thing to move at all.

Just been reading an interesting blog about an Irish Leaf owner's experience, and it was interesting, if for no other reason than to find that the biggest hassle is the non availability of charging points, either due to recurring faults, or people parking cars in the spaces by the chargers inappropriately.

I then looked at the map of charge points around here, and there's 1, that's it, nothing else within a pretty long run,, especially going North.

Electric is going to happen, but there will be problems before they are universally accepted, and some of those problems will need to be sorted by Government. They are not really interested in doing so, partly because they are still desperate for the tax they get on the use of carbon fuels, and if that take goes down, they'll have to replace it somehow, and as we're seeing at the moment with the IW debacle, that's not proving as easy as they thought it was going to be.

I'd consider electric for one of our vehicles, as the normal trips are short enough to not be an issue. The other vehicle won't be so easy to replace, I've not seen any electric 4 x 4's yet, and my crew cab is an all round general purpose vehicle that gets loaded on occasions, and tows trailers as well, that's not really electric vehicle country just yet.

nokia69

Sonics2k wrote: »

Tesla Model D is 0-60 in 30 seconds with a driving distance of aboit 400 miles on a charge. Better than my car by far.

I think you mean 3.2 seconds

Rhys Essien

Irish Steve wrote: »

I've not seen any electric 4 x 4's yet

Simon Coveney is driving this.

http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/outlander/explore-phev.aspx

ted1

WhiteWalls wrote: »

Donal Og Cusack was on RTE 1 there and he said that in ten years time 50% of us will be its bedriving electric cars? Very skeptical myself and find it hard to believe.

With the price of petrol and the developments in hybrids and batteries it's very believable.

Sam Kade

ted1 wrote: »

With the price of petrol and the developments in hybrids and batteries it's very believable.

Not much developments in hybrids when they get them to 100 mpg and the same price or fairly close to standard cars that will be development

nokia69

Sam Kade wrote: »

Not much developments in hybrids when they get them to 100 mpg and the same price or fairly close to standard cars that will be development

the plug in prius gets over 100mpg

the volt/ampera can be even better depending oh how you drive it

errlloyd

Can't believe people are dissing the 0-60 speed, acceleration is pretty much the strongest feature of electric cars. No Turbo-lag or gear changes mean they accelerate pretty quickly indeed.

As for the poster on the first page who said the battery takes up space, it takes up a lot less space than an Engine, Turbo, Fuel tank etc. One of the reasons the Teslas are so safe is the lack of an engine makes the car lighter and allows for larger crumple zones.

I'd do anything for a Tesla Model S right now. It's an amazing car, shame they're more expensive second hand than new.

ted1

Sam Kade wrote: »

Not much developments in hybrids when they get them to 100 mpg and the same price or fairly close to standard cars that will be development

Have you seen what the new Mitsubishi outlander can do? About 144 mpg.

The same price? Petrol now costs about 16 euro to drive 100km. So when comparing prices you need to include the cost of ownership

ted1

Sam Kade wrote: »

What happens when the battery dies which it will and you're faced with a €7k replacement cost?

Most companies have rental schemes so you just change the battery and don't have to worry about replacment costs. Tesla have super charger stations like petrol station except they just swap out the battery faster than it takes to fill a car with petrol so once again no worries about battery life

policarp

TheZohan wrote: »

What would a bogballer from Cork know?

Something.
Maybe nothing.
But something.

martinedwards

Ireland is a rural country.

live in Dublin and never leave the city?

current tech electric is viable.

but if you need to load the kids and stick on a roofbox to go on a weekend break in Cork then it all goes a little pear shaped.

Personally, I commute 20 miles each way to work. electric would be grand

when I need to go and collect my son from Uni in Durham?

no good at all.

as a city car they're great.

but there is no way we could have BOTH our cars electric AT CURRENT TECNOLOGY.

and as for the 8 year guarantee?

I sold my Diesel Seat Alhambra last week. 15 years old, 180K miles and still giving 40mpg.

I bought a 10 year old Getz.

I'm 100% confident in a old tech engine to last 15 years and 150K or more.

electric?

if I buy an OLD car for £200 (like my Getz) I expect to have to pay a few quid here and there. this one needs a sump..... £80.

NOT £7000 for new batteries.

recyclops

Don't the Tesla range come with an adapter which turns essentially any plug into a charger.

They have released all there patents to speed up the evolution of the electric car

Should I ever win the lotto my dream car is a model S. Here is what it's like to own one

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s

Zen65

Joe Doe wrote: »

One concern with all electrics is about what type of EMG field is produced when your sitting in/on what is effectively a very small electrical power plant.

Has been advisable for ages never to sleep or be in close proximity to the fuse/electric box in your house, so what about 2hrs a day inside a metal cage of batteries?

Electric cars use DC technology for all the motive drives, so there is near-zero EMF from them. There is of course a ripple on the DC but the impact will be about the same as a standard laptop.

The metal cage reference is misguided. If you are inside a metal cage you are shielded from electric fields - that's the basis of the Faraday cage being the safest place to be in a lightning storm.

All cars have some EMF in them of course, but the field strength is so low that it's probably true to say that time spent in a car (electric or conventional) is time spent away from EMF.

NIMAN

They will happen, whether we like it or not.

Once they develop a car that can drive about 300 miles on a charge, they will sell well.

ShadowHearth

Maybe not in 10 years, but it will happen. I would love to see all these ****y diesels die and be replaced by electric cars.

For me fully electric car would be perfect, but I cant afford to buy Nissan leaf right now. I'm the future I could see it as a perfect daily runaround and going to work car, while having something fun for weekend.

Sabre Man

ted1 wrote: »

Most companies have rental schemes so you just change the battery and don't have to worry about replacment costs. Tesla have super charger stations like petrol station except they just swap out the battery faster than it takes to fill a car with petrol so once again no worries about battery life

Tesla superchargers are just very fast chargers. As far as I know battery swapping in not currently offered but was demonstrated the way you describe it a number of months ago.

sammy37

I cant see governments pushing electric cars not with the huge revenue they get from petrol, diesel and car tax as the tax is low on electric. Otherwise they will have to find some way of taxing these cars other than using carbon tax as an excuse.

Zen65

sammy37 wrote: »

I cant see governments pushing electric cars not with the huge revenue they get from petrol, diesel and car tax . . .

It is the car companies that are pushing these cars initially, as their carbon tax obligations are based on the average emissions of their fleet, and these targets are lowering into the future. They need to sell electric vehicles so they can continue to produce high-end petrol & diesel cars.

Governments will diversify their taxation strategies to compensate for the loss of income from cars & fossil fuels e.g. water charges. Then as the prices of electric cars fall the levels of road tax will rise.

mickdw

Irish Steve wrote: »

None of us were expecting F1 to be using the degree of electric power that they are, so it's possible.
.

F1 is using hybrid power, the only electric involved is obtained from regeneration under breaking etc Similar to the hybrid lexus range.

That is a very important difference. Range is the major issue with full electric cars and as such they can have limited take up.
The immediate future in my opinion in with plug in hybrid. It can be loaded up with cheap electricity at night yet also has the hybrid power twin or at least internal combustion engine powered generation equipment on board. No range problems.