remove that niqab or leave!

Timberrrrrrrr

CptMackey wrote: »

My religion says that I should wear a balaclava at all times but especially in public. Should I be allowed to?

well done to the French. A similar ban wouldn't go amiss here

If you wore a scarf and hat on a cold January morning and someone told you to uncover what would you say? In all honesty i wonder how many of you have walked down the street and even noticed these women as they pass you. I see them every day in the city and have yet to see a single person recoiling in fear/terror so that little argument seems to be out the window.

Barely There

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Way to avoid answering the question :rolleyes:


Let's try again shall we?


You are going abroad tomorrow/next week/next month

Do YOU read up and learn EVERY LITTLE LAW in relation to that country?

I've answered your question a number of times now at this stage.
No idea what point you're even trying to make and I'm pretty bored at this stage.
Suggest you find someone else to have an argument with.

CptMackey

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you wore a scarf and hat on a cold January morning and someone told you to uncover what would you say? In all honesty i wonder how many of you have walked down the street and even noticed these women as they pass you. I see them every day in the city and have yet to see a single person recoiling in fear/terror so that little argument seems to be out the window.

I would take the scarf and hat off on entering a building eg a bank. However my religion makes it so I have to wear a balaclava and I enter a bank. I'd say I'd be in serious trouble but it's ok for Muslim women to cover their faces in a bank all because some imaginary friend says so?

Ban it and with it all religious nonsense

Timberrrrrrrr

Barely There wrote: »

I've answered your question a number of times now at this stage.
No idea what point you're even trying to make and I'm pretty bored at this stage.
Suggest you find someone else to have an argument with.

No you didn't answer the question at all, in fact you avoided it like the plague. The point is that this woman was not from France and was probably unaware of this law yet yourself and others are claiming that she deliberately ignored and broke the law. I know that ignorance of the law is not the greatest defense but claiming someone CHOSE to break the law as you and others have done is just wrong.

Timberrrrrrrr

CptMackey wrote: »

I would take the scarf and hat off on entering a building eg a bank. However my religion makes it so I have to wear a balaclava and I enter a bank. I'd say I'd be in serious trouble but it's ok for Muslim women to cover their faces in a bank all because some imaginary friend says so?

Ban it and with it all religious nonsense

If you could prove your religion allows this then the bank would have to let you in. I am an atheist and agree that all religions are nonsense, Just because i don't believe in something does not give me the right to trample on the beliefs of others though.

caustic 1

Simply it's about rights, she has none regarding this in a country where it's against the law. When you enter a country you adhere to it's customs and laws. If you don't agree to those laws then you have no earn going there. Respect people respect.
Also France I believe at the moment is on a heightened state of alert and security is important.

SeanW

Nino Brown wrote: »

You'd get more than that, a man wearing a skirt in those countries would probably be locked up beheaded.

FYP.

Nodin wrote: »

You'll be sick of hearing it by the end of this poxy thread.

A "poxy" thread by your standards obviously being one that disagrees with the radical leftist PC multicultural leftist world-view?

TommyKnocker

My 2 cents worth, The law's a ass and this is a stupid law IMHO. I honestly don't see the difference in being told you cannot wear a certain item of clothing and being told you must wear a certain item of clothing. While I would hate to think of any woman being forced to wear a niqab/veil, if it is the woman's choice, then she should be free to do so. What's next for France, stopping kids wearing masks at Halloween? Banning Masquerade Balls?

I am also guessing that this lady wore her niqab going to the opera, possibly collected or paid for her tickets while wearing the niqab, walked thorough the lobby to her seat while wearing it with no issues. Or did she sneak it in in her handbag, pop to the loo and come back wearing it?

Little CuChulainn

TommyKnocker wrote: »

My 2 cents worth, The law's a ass and this is a stupid law IMHO. I honestly don't see the difference in being told you cannot wear a certain item of clothing and being told you must wear a certain item of clothing. While I would hate to think of any woman being forced to wear a niqab/veil, if it is the woman's choice, then she should be free to do so. What's next for France, stopping kids wearing masks at Halloween? Banning Masquerade Balls?

I am also guessing that this lady wore her niqab going to the opera, possibly collected or paid for her tickets while wearing the niqab, walked thorough the lobby to her seat while wearing it with no issues. Or did she sneak it in in her handbag, pop to the loo and come back wearing it?

Is it really their choice if they've been indoctrinated since birth to believe they are second class and should cover themselves up?

RobYourBuilder

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you wore a scarf and hat on a cold January morning and someone told you to uncover what would you say? In all honesty i wonder how many of you have walked down the street and even noticed these women as they pass you. I see them every day in the city and have yet to see a single person recoiling in fear/terror so that little argument seems to be out the window.

A hat and scarf are functional items of clothing in cold weather. Even with one on, the wearers face is still showing and they are easily recognisable. You're not comparing like with like. To compare like with like would be a lad walking around wearing a bally on a perfectly pleasent day. How would that go down?

sbsquarepants

kingchess wrote: »

She is a fine looking woman in fairness.

How can you tell?
She does have lovely eyes, i'll give you that much!

TommyKnocker

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Is it really their choice if they've been indoctrinated since birth to believe they are second class and should cover themselves up?

1.6 Billion Muslims in the world, lets say 50% are women, so .8 billion. Now lets say that 33% don't cover their heads, that gives us around .54 billion Muslim women who wear a head covering of some sort.

So you know for a FACT that .54 billion women were "indoctrinated since birth to believe they are second class and should cover themselves up" do you? And the women who choose not to cover, how do you explain them? Did they miss the indoctrination?

I know a couple of Muslim women, some choose not to cover, Some wear a loose fitting scarf, but you can see some of their hair and some wear the hijab. Of the women who cover, I know it is their choice and I believe that they should be free to make that choice.

Just as the IRA does not make all Irish Nationalists terrorists, so a number of Islamic idiots does not make all the followers of Islam terrorists. Muslims are not the boogie man mainstream media make them out to be.

Timberrrrrrrr

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

A hat and scarf are functional items of clothing in cold weather. Even with one on, the wearers face is still showing and they are easily recognisable. You're not comparing like with like. To compare like with like would be a lad walking around wearing a bally on a perfectly pleasent day. How would that go down?

Ok what's the difference? Why are these acceptable?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/03/article-2095955-11932A43000005DC-641_470x628.jpg

http://static6.depositphotos.com/1036362/668/i/950/depositphotos_6688322-Behind-the-scarf.jpg

But this is not?

http://www.halsburyslawexchange.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Niqab.jpg

Why is this acceptable attire?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00439/news-graphics-2008-_439854a.jpg

But this isn't

http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/531283403.jpg?w=620

I know which one i would be more wary of.

TommyKnocker

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

A hat and scarf are functional items of clothing in cold weather. Even with one on, the wearers face is still showing and they are easily recognisable. You're not comparing like with like. To compare like with like would be a lad walking around wearing a bally on a perfectly pleasent day. How would that go down?

It wouldn't go down, as the media has groomed a large number of the population to associate a "bally" with boogie man muggers, rapists, robbers etc. Just as it has groomed a large number of the population to associate Muslims with terrorists since 9/11.

I fail to see how a woman choosing to cover her face in any way inconveniences any other person. And this crap about "needing" to see a persons face when communicating, well blind people seem to be able to communicate with others quite well and they can see nothing at all of the person they communicate with.

the_syco

fedor.2. wrote: »

Ah, a 3 minute video with a few British Muslims, I stand corrected:rolleyes:

I'm assuming that not one of these are asylum seekers wishing to escape an oppressive regime?

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'll ask again, are you aware of EVERY law of a country that you plan to visit?

Should those who "honour kill" their own family over "honour" be pardoned over not knowing that "honour killing" is against the law in Britain?

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You are going abroad tomorrow/next week/next month

Do YOU read up and learn EVERY LITTLE LAW in relation to that country?

I read up on the cultural laws if going to a country which is culturally different to my own. For example, if going to America, I wouldn't wear a t-shirt saying "Jeasus Christ is a c**t" as I'd be arrested for it, as I'd also be arrested if I wore a t-shirt saing "Allah is a c**t" in countries where they regard Allah as their god.

CptMackey wrote: »

My religion says that I should wear a balaclava at all times but especially in public. Should I be allowed to?

I wear a balaclava during the winter months. Totally legal, expect indoors.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you could prove your religion allows this then the bank would have to let you in. I am an atheist and agree that all religions are nonsense, Just because i don't believe in something does not give me the right to trample on the beliefs of others though.

So someones beliefs should trample on the security of another? By this I mean should the bank teller not feel safe doing their job because someone decides it's their right to cover their face.

Oh, on a side note; by the same religious law that demands they cover themself up, shouldn't they not do business? If you choose to follow the religious teachings, fair enough, but don't pick and choose.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why is this acceptable attire?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00439/news-graphics-2008-_439854a.jpg

You'll find yourself stopped by the police if in the wrong area whilst wearing that.

wes

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I fail to see how a woman choosing to cover her face in any way inconveniences any other person. And this crap about "needing" to see a persons face when communicating, well blind people seem to be able to communicate with others quite well and they can see nothing at all of the person they communicate with.

Also, it should be pointed out that we all seem to communicate on boards just fine...........

jackofalltrades

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ok what's the difference? Why are these acceptable?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/03/article-2095955-11932A43000005DC-641_470x628.jpg

http://static6.depositphotos.com/1036362/668/i/950/depositphotos_6688322-Behind-the-scarf.jpg

The reasons for wearing a scarf/hat in cold weather are completely different to the reasons that women wear a Niqab.
This argument has no relevance to this discussion.

Why is this acceptable attire?http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00439/news-graphics-2008-_439854a.jpg

It's not, it would get you banned from most shops and the police would probably stop you.

Timberrrrrrrr

jackofalltrades wrote: »

The reasons for wearing a scarf/hat in cold weather are completely different to the reasons that women wear a Niqab.
This argument has no relevance to this discussion.


It's not, it would get you banned from most shops and the police would probably stop you.

I often walk around with a hoody on and a scarf covering my face in winter and have NEVER been stopped or questioned by the police or stopped from walking into a shop, i wonder why that is?

caustic 1

TommyKnocker wrote: »

It wouldn't go down, as the media has groomed a large number of the population to associate a "bally" with boogie man muggers, rapists, robbers etc. Just as it has groomed a large number of the population to associate Muslims with terrorists since 9/11.

I fail to see how a woman choosing to cover her face in any way inconveniences any other person. And this crap about "needing" to see a persons face when communicating, well blind people seem to be able to communicate with others quite well and they can see nothing at all of the person they communicate with.

Through circumstances not choice. :rolleyes:

jackofalltrades

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I often walk around with a hoody on and a scarf covering my face in winter and have NEVER been stopped or questioned by the police or stopped from walking into a shop, i wonder why that is?

Do you dress like the people in the picture that you linked to and the one that I was referring to?

TommyKnocker

caustic 1 wrote: »

[/B]

Through circumstances not choice. :rolleyes:

True, but the fact remains that you do not "NEED" to see someone's face to communicate with them.

wes

caustic 1 wrote: »

[/B]

Through circumstances not choice. :rolleyes:

You choose to communicate via boards however.........

Timberrrrrrrr

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Do you dress like the people in the picture that you linked to and the one that I was referring to?

Like what? Jeans and hoody? Yes i do it's what i wear most days.

caustic 1

TommyKnocker wrote: »

True, but the fact remains that you do not "NEED" to see someone's face to communicate with them.

Of course not, but in a country where it is against the law then it should be adhered to.

caustic 1

wes wrote: »

You choose to communicate via boards however.........

In this case yes...your point being?

jackofalltrades

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Like what? Jeans and hoody? Yes i do it's what i wear most days.

Do you wear a skanger jacket, zipped up over your nose with just your eyes visible?
Because if you dressed lie the young lads in that picture and did so while indoors and going about your day to day business, then there's a strong chance someone would ask you to take your hood down or to leave their premises.

wes

caustic 1 wrote: »

In this case yes...your point being?

We seem to be communicating just fine........

jackofalltrades

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I fail to see how a woman choosing to cover her face in any way inconveniences any other person. And this crap about "needing" to see a persons face when communicating, well blind people seem to be able to communicate with others quite well and they can see nothing at all of the person they communicate with.

Roughly 80% of interpersonal communication is non-verbal.
Reading a persons facial signals makes up a big part of this.
In a society where people are used to seeing other peoples faces whilst we are talking to them, covering your face is inconveniencing someone.

And while your talking about people with disabilities.
How do you think a woman wearing a Niqab is going to be able to communicate with someone who has hearing difficulties and lip reads?

wes wrote:

Also, it should be pointed out that we all seem to communicate on boards just fine...........

Aside from the all to frequent arguments and misunderstandings caused by people not being able to properly gauge the tone of the other person.

UCDCritic

It is a well established fact that the niqab is not apart of Islam and is simply used as a tool of female oppression.

Timberrrrrrrr

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Do you wear a skanger jacket, zipped up over your nose with just your eyes visible?
Because if you dressed lie the young lads in that picture and did so while indoors and going about your day to day business, then there's a strong chance someone would ask you to take your hood down or to leave their premises.

In the winter i wear a hoodie with a scarf covering the lower part of my face, why would this be acceptable attire but a woman in a niqab not be?