remove that niqab or leave!

UCDVet

My name is URL wrote: »

So because those countries impose dress rules on their people, we in the west should do the same? That'll learn 'em!

Is there any logic behind that or is it just out of spite?

I think you've captured the logic behind it.

woodoo

I'm sure she knew the law but decided it didn't matter. I have no sympathy for her.

jahalpin

I agree with the cast in their decision not to perform until the woman complied with the law.

I believe that France is right to have this law and it would be nice if certain other far Western Europe countries adopted similar laws to prevent the serious divisions that have occurred due to excessive immigration from backwards-thinking middle eastern countries

The whole point of making the women dress in this way is to emphasise that they are their husbands property. It is seriously offensive to women and shows that, in the eyes of their culture, women do not deserve the same rights as men

It shows serious disrespect for the culture and tradition of the host country to dress in this way

In times of heightened security, it poses a serious security risk due to the fact that it would be very difficult to identify people dressed in this way

Timberrrrrrrr

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

It's reasonable. Different cultures have different rules. Ireland has moved from Catholicism to the quasi religiousity of American politically correctness. France has long had a distrust of religion and has banned religious symbolism and attire for generations. To the "modern" Irish mind American secularism ( ban religion from public buildings ) is obvious - to the French mind the French system( ban it from public buildings and any public display) is equally obvious. The Saudis ban non-Islamic religiosity.

Could i wear a crucifix or a St Christopher around my neck in France?

coffee_cake

jahalpin wrote: »

It is seriously offensive to women and shows that women should not have the right to free thought

So they should have the right to free thought by letting you do their thinking and deciding for them on how they should dress yea?

My name is URL

jahalpin wrote: »

It is seriously offensive to women and shows that women should not have the right to free thought

..he said, without a single hint of irony :rolleyes:

Nino Brown

My name is URL wrote: »

So because those countries impose dress rules on their people, we in the west should do the same? That'll learn 'em!

Is there any logic behind that or is it just out of spite?

In western cultures, hiding ones face is a usually a sign that they are trying to hide their identity, and that they have something to hide. It makes people suspicious and uncomfortable. And for that reason, it is the law in France that they shouldn't be worn
I don't agree with Muslim beliefs, or laws, but I think they have the right to dictate their own laws, and I should abide by them while in those countries. So I never have and never will visit one.

crockholm

Whether you Think the law is foolish or not is moot,this is French law and somebody broke the law,action was taken.

pablo128

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Could i wear a crucifix or a St Christopher around my neck in France?

Sure, why not. You are not allowed to cover your face with a crucifix though, or a St christopher medal, or a niqab or anything else.

0byme75341jo28

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Could i wear a crucifix or a St Christopher around my neck in France?

I don't think you can, all religious symbols are banned in public life in France as far as I know.

Tokyo

Amelie Acidic Sheet wrote: »

I don't think you can, all religious symbols are banned in public life in France as far as I know.

In schools I think, but not in public. And only conspicuous symbols.

Timberrrrrrrr

pablo128 wrote: »

Sure, why not. You are not allowed to cover your face with a crucifix though, or a St christopher medal, or a niqab or anything else.

Because Frank said

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

It's reasonable. Different cultures have different rules. Ireland has moved from Catholicism to the quasi religiousity of American politically correctness. France has long had a distrust of religion and has banned religious symbolism and attire for generations. To the "modern" Irish mind American secularism ( ban religion from public buildings ) is obvious - to the French mind the French system( ban it from public buildings and any public display) is equally obvious. The Saudis ban non-Islamic religiosity.

So if it is ok for me to walk around with a crucifix, St Christopher, star of David on show then it's not about banning religious symbolism it becomes about banning Islamic religious symbolism.

I know a medallion around the neck does not cover the face but they ban ALL religious symbolism then in reality (imo) these are just laws that only affect Muslim women.

UCDVet

Most of the people I know who would support her right to wearing whatever she wants, are also the same people who would say that young men wearing skimasks and carrying cans of spray paint should be arrested.

I just find that interesting.

My name is URL

Nino Brown wrote: »

In western cultures, hiding ones face is a usually a sign that they are trying to hide their identity, and that they have something to hide. It makes people suspicious and uncomfortable. And for that reason, it is the law in France that they shouldn't be worn
I don't agree with Muslim beliefs, or laws, but I think they have the right to dictate there own laws, and I should abide by them while in those countries. So I never have and never will visit one.

Feeling suspicious of someone who has their face covered isn't a societal or cultural thing in any way, shape or form, it's purely a individual and in this case illogical reaction.

I've lived in various cities, have regularly seen women dress like that and have never felt suspicions, or that they were up to no good, and I'd wager that most people wouldn't; even if they idealistically disagree with the wearing of such clothing. People use that as an argument against it, but it's usually just used to veil or hide their own prejudices.

conorh91

bluewolf wrote: »

So they should have the right to free thought by letting you do their thinking and deciding for them on how they should dress yea?

Should there not be a law against, say, public nudity/ obscene exhibitionism?

What about a man who curiously insists on standing outside his front door, butt naked, during the school-run?

We all admit that being naked is natural.

But reasonable people of ordinary sensitivity accept that doing so, in public, does not meet the social norms of this society.

Similarly, many reasonable people of ordinary sensitivity are of the opinion that covering one's face in public does not meet the social norms of this society.

If I was to walk into a French Opera house wearing a balaclava, I expect that I'd receive the same treatment.

jahalpin

My name is URL wrote: »

..he said, without a single hint of irony :rolleyes:

It is highly unlikely that anyone would choose to dress in this way, if they had total free will

My original posting may have been misinterpreted by certain people

I believe that everyone should be treated equally, that they should get the same opportunities regardless of their gender or skin colour etc.

Nino Brown

My name is URL wrote: »

Feeling suspicious of someone who has their face covered isn't a societal or cultural thing in any way, shape or form, it's purely a individual and in this case illogical reaction.

I disagree, if you walk around a town center in almost any western country wearing a balaclava, it will make people uncomfortable, in fact so uncomfortable I wouldn't be surprised if you were approached by police to ask why you were wearing it.

Timberrrrrrrr

jahalpin wrote: »

It is highly unlikely that anyone would choose to dress in this way, if they had total free will

My original posting may have been misinterpreted by certain people

I believe that everyone should be treated equally, that they should get the same opportunities regardless of their gender or skin colour etc.

Maybe you should meet some Muslim people and ask them.

Laois6556

Ah some religious stuff can cause all sorts of conundrums. In France they say to 'remove your niqab'. In Ireland priests used to say 'remove your trousers'. What wacky adventure will religion get up to next?

Hitchens

so some posters on here think that the French laws should just be ignored because it offends Muslims?

one thing about the French..........they have a bit of backbone



An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile — hoping it will eat him last

- Winston Churchill

coffee_cake

Hitchens wrote: »

so some posters on here think that the French laws should just be ignored because it offends Muslims?
l

It offends ME

Hitchens

bluewolf wrote: »

It offends ME

I doubt the French care

hawkelady

bluewolf wrote: »

It offends ME

Are you Muslim?

Tokyo

Hitchens wrote: »

so some posters on here think that the French laws should just be ignored because it offends Muslims?

Translation of the law: I believe so much in women's freedom that I'm going to tell those idiot Muslim women what they are and aren't allowed to wear. They're obviously too stupid to think for themselves to they need enlightened western people like myself to think for them.

Timberrrrrrrr

Hitchens wrote: »

so some posters on here think that the French laws should just be ignored because it offends Muslims?

one thing about the French..........they have a bit of backbone



An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile — hoping it will eat him last

- Winston Churchill

No

I think if you're going to have laws then they should apply to ALL people and not just Muslims.

Hitchens

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No

I think if you're going to have laws then they should apply to ALL people and not just Muslims.

they do apply to everyone

AlanS181824

I've a friend in Saudi Arabia who used to hold very strong views over this, it's pretty interesting but in Saudi Arabia especially it's move of a cultural thing than a religious thing.

Personally I think let her on, what harm is she doing to anyone? Barring the fact she'd probably look like a ninja in the dark and would scare the bejeebus out of most people.

Honey Monster

I've often been told to take my motorbike helmet off while filing up at a petrol station...

Where are my human rights.

Timberrrrrrrr

Hitchens wrote: »

they do apply to everyone

So if it was freezing cold in January in Paris cod i wear a scarf covering my face? Could i walk around in a shirt with with a crucifix, star of David or st Christopher showing?