Why do politicans get paid so much?

evo2000

crannglas wrote: »

Aww god help him he only has 200 grand a year bless. And only expenses and free trips.

Tis tough at the top alright! hats off to him tho!

blackwhite

crannglas wrote: »

I will bet ten grand if the wages came down to that level you would soon see the greedy leave and no greedy ones would become TDs in first place.

You'd get sweet F.A. competent ones either. People complain now that teachers dominate the Dáil, well €60k would guarantee that teachers would be one of the few professions that would still consider running for election.

Running a country is one of the most difficult jobs going - I'd like to think that Ireland should be competing for people who otherwise would be walking into highly paid jobs in businesses/global organisations if they weren't in politics (unfortunately that isn't the case with many of our politicians now - but cut the wages and it will guarantee that it never will be the case in the future either).

crannglas wrote: »

Also no free ucd or trinity for politicians kids

How exactly is that a change? Politician's children have the same admissions process and registration fees as anyone else. All you're doing is displaying a rather major chip on your shoulder about certain universities.

dxhound2005

smash wrote: »

The rules should be:

If you want to be a politician then you're not allowed be one. Greedy self serving gob****es! Also, teachers can't be politicians and you must be qualified in the field you are supposed to manage.

What do you think about the motives of the private sector group who pay themselves 5 or 10 million a year. In it for the greed or what?

blackwhite

crannglas wrote: »

Like in my post above. That's all a good thing. It would attract people who want the Job cause they want to do good for the people and country.

And it would primarily attract people who don't have the skill-set to run a country.
It's a tough job - having your heart in the right place doesn't matter a jot if you aren't capable of dealing with the responsibilities.

SpaceTime

Apparently because they're worth it...

I don't mind politicians getting paid fairly well, it is genuinely a tough and very unstable job but there's a limit at which it becomes ridiculous.

The unvouched expenses, the unjustifiable perks and so on need to be stopped. All they're doing is undermining public confidence in politics.

Their pay should also be linked to a representative basket of private sector salleries too, not public sector pay grades that they have direct control over.

blackwhite

Wez wrote: »

I actually think that paying the average industrial wage would do us a lot of good, regarding the type of people that would run for election. If nothing else, it would also mean they're a little closer to reality when making decisions.

The implication being that anyone who has the cheek to gain some skills and earn a decent living for themselves is somehow a lesser type of person, and less in touch with reality, than someone who doesn't earn as much?

Pathetic, mealy-mouthed begrudgery - sounds like the nonsense we normally hear from Joe Higgins

Because if politicians were paid a pitiful wage nobody would ever bother becoming one. Being well paid is not the same thing as being corrupt.

crannglas

blackwhite wrote: »

You'd get sweet F.A. competent ones either. People complain now that teachers dominate the Dáil, well €60k would guarantee that teachers would be one of the few professions that would still consider running for election.

Running a country is one of the most difficult jobs going - I'd like to think that Ireland should be competing for people who otherwise would be walking into highly paid jobs in businesses/global organisations if they weren't in politics (unfortunately that isn't the case with many of our politicians now - but cut the wages and it will guarantee that it never will be the case in the future either).




How exactly is that a change? Politician's children have the same admissions process and registration fees as anyone else. All you're doing is displaying a rather major chip on your shoulder about certain universities.

Politician alert sirens sirens. You seem to be under delusion that people who take less money are not competent? Classy who do you work for ends? And of they would have to have proper degrees for environment or education finance etc..

dxhound2005

Making their wages similar to the top levels in the private sector, or say just one million a year, would that attract better talent? Is that what is keeping people like the managers in Ryanair and Paddy Powers who are super successful away from politics. If it is possible to part hundreds of millions from punters on the horses and football these guys would have no problem running a country. Of course one million would probably not get them on board, two million might.

smash

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What do you think about the motives of the private sector group who pay themselves 5 or 10 million a year. In it for the greed or what?

That's got sweet feck all to do with anything because they're not paid by the public and they have to generate that money through their own companies in order to receive it. Now go back to the dail and do whatever it is you do... Which I'm guessing is absolutely nothing!

evo2000

blackwhite wrote: »

And it would primarily attract people who don't have the skill-set to run a country.
It's a tough job - having your heart in the right place doesn't matter a jot if you aren't capable of dealing with the responsibilities.

Id rather have someone with there heart in the right place making an honest effort, than sneaky under handed people more content feathering there own nest than the people there supposed to represent ! but then again honesty and politics dont go hand in hand!

I dont see how enda and the likes are skilled, the dail is a joke, full of blabbering idiots squabbling over petty things and personal attacks most of the time,

sheesh

Berserker wrote: »

I know one county council bin man and he mustn't be doing too bad, as he goes to watch his premier league team, in England and Europe, on a very regular basis. I can't comment on poo merchant/engineers or whatever they call themselves.

if you are there long enough you can get amazing money especially if you have any responsibility, a council job would be great!

dxhound2005

smash wrote: »

That's got sweet feck all to do with anything because they're not paid by the public and they have to generate that money through their own companies in order to receive it. Now go back to the dail and do whatever it is you do... Which I'm guessing is absolutely nothing!

Say they are running tobacco or gambling companies. Their activities have a deleterious effect on the population which I have to pay for in my taxes.

johnam

Tail Docker wrote: »

The rest of Europe and the UK seem to manage alright paying far less. Whatever about the wages, the pensions are eye-watering.

The UK doesn't pay "far" less when you take into account the cost of living. for example the average MP salary before expenses is 85k compared to 87k for a TD. Obviously ministers wages are higher.

David Cameron gets 178k compared to 200k for Enda.


I do agree though that the pensions etc are crazy!!!!!

blackwhite

crannglas wrote: »

Politician alert sirens sirens. You seem to be under delusion that people who take less money are not competent? Classy who do you work for ends?

Good to see your intellect is enough that you don't immediately start name-calling when someone disagrees with you...... oh, wait :rolleyes:


People who work for less money are probably perfectly competent at whatever job they do.
However, a job that pays the average industrial wage or similar is not very likely to have much relevance to the skill-set required to run a country - hence, the competencies that the people your proposal would attract are not likely to be the competencies needed to run a country.

Seeing as how you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about people going to university I'm going to guess that logical reasoning isn't going to work with you though...... how about "rabble, rabble, rabble" - seems more like what you'd prefer everyone on this thread just spouted instead.

cookie24

They should suffer a substantial pay-cut. That way you weed out the career politicians and are left with people that have the good of the nation at their heart.

smash

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Say they are running tobacco or gambling companies. Their activities have a deleterious effect on the population which I have to pay for in my taxes.

Still private companies. Not paid by the public. And for what it's worth, we all pay for government fcuk ups with our taxes too.

dxhound2005

The sad thing is that there are only 166 positions available, soon to be reduced to 160. And only 15 of those get to the boardroom. And only one chief executive. Fairly precarious career choice as has been mentioned. But one which is uniquely available to completely unqualified candidates. In fact there is no definition of the qualifications.

An AH self appointed expert on everything, of which there are plenty, could go for the job in 2016 and no doubt impress the interview panel (the electorate) enough to walk into the job.

crannglas

blackwhite wrote: »

Good to see your intellect is enough that you don't immediately start name-calling when someone disagrees with you...... oh, wait :rolleyes:


People who work for less money are probably perfectly competent at whatever job they do.
However, a job that pays the average industrial wage or similar is not very likely to have much relevance to the skill-set required to run a country - hence, the competencies that the people your proposal would attract are not likely to be the competencies needed to run a country.

Seeing as how you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about people going to university I'm going to guess that logical reasoning isn't going to work with you though...... how about "rabble, rabble, rabble" - seems more like what you'd prefer everyone on this thread just spouted instead.

God that was serious name calling there. I answered and I am correct you are incorrect.

Yogosan

It's an elitist job and it's a very very difficult, if not completely impossible job. If the salary for being a politician was €0.00 then poor and middle income earners might come to the realisation that they are capable of running the country.

It's impossible for a handful of politicians to run a country efficiently regardless of their salary. It's alot easier, but much less financially rewarding for 5 million people to run a country for no pay... like some sort of... I dunno... democracy or something. But that has rarely been tried before and most people who do try it end up being invaded by the United States. True democracy is very frightening for the establishment.

Just ask the Catalonians.

evo2000

blackwhite wrote: »

Good to see your intellect is enough that you don't immediately start name-calling when someone disagrees with you...... oh, wait :rolleyes:


People who work for less money are probably perfectly competent at whatever job they do.
However, a job that pays the average industrial wage or similar is not very likely to have much relevance to the skill-set required to run a country - hence, the competencies that the people your proposal would attract are not likely to be the competencies needed to run a country.

Seeing as how you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about people going to university I'm going to guess that logical reasoning isn't going to work with you though...... how about "rabble, rabble, rabble" - seems more like what you'd prefer everyone on this thread just spouted instead.

You have a point, but i dont agree "best money will attract the best person for the job" id rather have someone not soley motivated by money to represent the interests of our nation.

Wez

blackwhite wrote: »

The implication being that anyone who has the cheek to gain some skills and earn a decent living for themselves is somehow a lesser type of person, and less in touch with reality, than someone who doesn't earn as much?

Pathetic, mealy-mouthed begrudgery - sounds like the nonsense we normally hear from Joe Higgins

Nope, but the current shower don't seem to be genuinely interested in the good of the country. If someone earning big bucks is willing to dedicate a few years to their country on a low wage, I feel it shows genuine enthusiasm (Donnelly being my example here). It would also mean there's a good chance someone would actually bring about proper changes to their pensions etc (because they can earn their own outside of politics).

What real skills do the current lot have..? Speaking Irish wouldn't get you very far outside this country! Everything else is dictated to them by those that have been in the background for the last number of elections: civil servants (possibly the most sarcastic job title going). But the current lot don't have the cop on to think for themselves..

cajonlardo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I know it's not popular to say but being a politician is a very difficult job.

Currently?

" Yes Mr Troika, No Mr Troika, 3 bags full and fcuk the working man Mr Troika"

and pass a couple deal to your mates

Any Tom Dick or school teacher could do that

blackwhite

evo2000 wrote: »

Id rather have someone with there heart in the right place making an honest effort, than sneaky under handed people more content feathering there own nest than the people there supposed to represent ! but then again honesty and politics dont go hand in hand!

I've my heart in the right place and would make an honest effort. Should I be playing in midfield for Manchester City instead of Yaya Toure (let's face it, he barely makes an effort most of the time)?

evo2000 wrote: »

I dont see how enda and the likes are skilled, the dail is a joke, full of blabbering idiots squabbling over petty things and personal attacks most of the time,

There's a few quite skilled and many more unskilled at the minute. The problem is the electorate most of the time. Politicians who are honest and don't try to spin things get hammered by the media and turfed out by the electorate.
Snake oil salesmen who lie, spin and spout whatever they think Joe Public wants to hear will get voted in time and again.

Cut the pay down to SFA, and the skilled, honest politicians become more likely to decide it's just not worth the hassle.

blackwhite

crannglas wrote: »

God that was serious name calling there. I answered and I am correct you are incorrect.

The quality of debate here is astounding :pac:

crannglas

blackwhite wrote: »

The implication being that anyone who has the cheek to gain some skills and earn a decent living for themselves is somehow a lesser type of person, and less in touch with reality, than someone who doesn't earn as much?

Pathetic, mealy-mouthed begrudgery - sounds like the nonsense we normally hear from Joe Higgins

No one is implying that at all. How ever polticans need to be grounded and approachable and connected to the people. Therefore a healthy wage not the wage they are on as they receive expenses also among other things. Can't be brudgery since I would do it for less. As I am sure loads who frequent boards, who show high intelligence in different areas.

blackwhite

evo2000 wrote: »

You have a point, but i dont agree "best money will attract the best person for the job" id rather have someone not soley motivated by money to represent the interests of our nation.

The best money doesn't guarantee the best person.

Paying less than the best money guarantees that you certainly will not get the best person.

crannglas

blackwhite wrote: »

The quality of debate here is astounding :pac:

I really don't like to go around and around in circles,which you were doing so stepped off. :<

Berserker

blackwhite wrote: »

Politicians who are honest and don't try to spin things get hammered by the media and turfed out by the electorate.
Snake oil salesmen who lie, spin and spout whatever they think Joe Public wants to hear will get voted in time and again.

Total agree. As I said before, if a top class academic went up against the some z-list celeb for a seat in the Dail, the celeb would win. We all know that. Honest is not the best policy in Irish politics.

dxhound2005

crannglas wrote: »

No one is implying that at all. How ever polticans need to be grounded and approachable and connected to the people. Therefore a healthy wage not the wage they are on as they receive expenses also among other things. Can't be brudgery since I would do it for less. As I am sure loads who frequent boards, who show high intelligence in different areas.

What happened whenever you tried to approach your own approachable or unapproachable politician? Did they rebuff your approaches?

I have never approached a politician so I don't know how it works.