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Why do politicans get paid so much?

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    #62
    evo2000
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    What ever happened to leaders that lead by example anyway ? i dont see how a politician could have a clear conscious taking home 200k, while the nation he was representing was struggling,

    I wonder how much micheal collins and the lads were on back in the day, but then again there hardships were nothing compared to that of the modern politician...


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    #63
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    evo2000 wrote: »
    What ever happened to leaders that lead by example anyway ? i dont see how a politician could have a clear conscious taking home 200k, while the nation he was representing was struggling,

    I wonder how much micheal collins and the lads were on back in the day, but then again there hardships were nothing compared to that of the modern politician...

    Well Dev was on the take anyway.

    A true FFer.


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    #64
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    What happened whenever you tried to approach your own approachable or unapproachable politician? Did they rebuff your approaches?

    I have never approached a politician so I don't know how it works.

    Well what happens when people approach you?

    I can't stand most politicians. Stephen Fonnelly is the only one I can think of who's actually worth his salt. At the last election I got a flyer through my door for someone running for election just because he had parents in politics. This guy used to be off his face on coke every weekend in my local and was pretty much a mess but he scrubbed up well in a suit. I was delighted he didn't get in.


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    #65
    crannglas
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭crannglas


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    What happened whenever you tried to approach your own approachable or unapproachable politician? Did they rebuff your approaches?

    I have never approached a politician so I don't know how it works.
    One such politician knocking on doors for GE from FG. I made my buisness to ask him a couple of questions. He was more interested in getting out of there. He was rude arrogant and shifty. He wouldn't answer my question and shook my hand limp without respect. And when he got in well needless to say he is now the most hated one on our area.


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    #66
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Several things could make a difference.

    It won't happen any time soon because the system will fight tooth and nail to prevent it, as it would seriously threaten their very cosy and comfortable eliteism.

    The first is that each general election, there should be a referendum series of questions on it, and one of those should relate to elected representatives pay, along the lines of "are you in favour of allowing an X% pay rise for the political representative. Y/N.

    Simple majority question, and it takes the control of TD's pay out of their hands, as at present, the people have NO control over it.

    Pensions should be funded in the same sorts of ways that the private sector is funded and paid for, and at similar levels.

    Running the country is basically no different than running a large company, the big difference being that a private company has to present annual accounts to the shareholders, and they have to be approved, and the pay of the directors has to be approved by the shareholders.

    Why is the political system so badly different? We only get one opportunity ever 5 years to change the top people, and there's also no way to get their attention during that 5 years, so a petition system that would require a referendum if more than X% sign it would also be a welcome change.

    There need to be other changes, If a company folds up, the people who worked for it get statutory redundancy, maybe a bit more, and that's it, so the same for the politicians if they lose the vote. None of these special schemes to "let them down gently", they knew what they were getting into when they joined.

    Same with pensions, same rules as the private sector, you collect when you retire, not when you move from one branch of Government to another, at possibly an even higher rate of pay.

    Civil service and Semi States, the Job for Life concept has to be ended, it's wrong that they can't get rid of dead wood, and other failures, and wrong that they're not accountable for what they do. It's also the only employment now that is still possibly a job for life, any other private sector work is likely to see an employee moving from company to company on a number of occasions during their career. Being so secure engenders a mind set that is no longer appropriate to the life style of the nation, and it is an unhelpful influence on the thinking and planning that those same people then produce.

    I am under no illusions, the present system is close to collapsing, it's already failed, and it desperately needs to be reformed. There is not the will or the interest at the top in changing it, and I'm not about to trust that any of the other parties in waiting are any more inclined to make the sorts of changes that are needed.

    I don't know how it is going to be changed, and I'm too old and cynical now to be closely involved in a party or system to make it change, and I've been burnt too many times by the shortcomings of the system over the years to be willing to put myself on the line any more for "the system".

    I just hope that someone or something does emerge from the present discontent that makes a real difference

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #67
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Are politicians really paid all that much? I mean I know in comparison to the average wage they are but with reference to other 'high end' careers I don't think its a particularly disproportionately well paid job.


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    #68
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    They don't make nearly as much as their private sector counterparts. Sure, compared to the average household, they're doing great. But compared to successful business types - not so much.


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    #69
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Tough job that should be well paid, although the whole you need high wages to attract the best people is obviously working :rolleyes:

    The pension and expenses are a wage on their own.
    UCDVet wrote: »
    They don't make nearly as much as their private sector counterparts. Sure, compared to the average household, they're doing great. But compared to successful business types - not so much.

    Successful business types tend to make a profit for the organisation.


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    #70
    crannglas
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭crannglas


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Are politicians really paid all that much? I mean I know in comparison to the average wage they are but with reference to other 'high end' careers I don't think its a particularly disproportionately well paid job.

    When they are being offered more loans off EU to tune of 15 million if they can come up with other half for homelessness in Ireland while they still live lavish lifestyles and can ask monarchy to Ireland meaning Ireland pays for it. You are damn right they get paid to much. Have you not seen their wage count?


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    #71
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    johnam wrote: »
    The UK doesn't pay "far" less when you take into account the cost of living. for example the average MP salary before expenses is 85k compared to 87k for a TD. Obviously ministers wages are higher.

    David Cameron gets 178k compared to 200k for Enda.


    I do agree though that the pensions etc are crazy!!!!!

    Have a little glance at the populations and the size of the economy they administer. Enda, c.a 4.5 million persons. Cameron, c.a 64 million persons. And the pays the same?? Lol, sounds legit.


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    #72
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Are politicians really paid all that much? I mean I know in comparison to the average wage they are but with reference to other 'high end' careers I don't think its a particularly disproportionately well paid job.

    They are mostly overpaid compared to their qualification.

    However it is we, the electorate, that put them in power.

    More fool us.


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    #73
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    Have a little glance at the populations and the size of the economy they administer. Enda, c.a 4.5 million persons. Cameron, c.a 64 million persons. And the pays the same?? Lol, sounds legit.

    Yeah, but Edna works mainly on behalf of Europe....


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    #74
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Successful business types tend to make a profit for the organisation.

    Some do. A lot of successful, high paid business types *don't* make a profit. Also, the success or a failure of a large company can't be attributed to a single person, even if it is the CEO.

    All I mean is, when you consider everyone in the field - and ranked them by how successful they are - politicians that we know of are usually very successful. Compared to the size of a company, the country of Ireland is huge.

    The CEO of my last company make more than most politicians and it was an 80 person company AND it went under. She lost money, a lot of money, over a 10 year span but still managed to pay herself a fortune.


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    #75
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    johnam wrote: »
    What would you suggest we pay them? Politics is a tough job, I know I wouldn't do it. If you want to attract the right people to the job then you have to pay the right wages. One of the unfortunate parts about democracy in ireland is that people vote for the people they know, or the families they know, or the lad who helped sort their planning permission, and not necessarily the best person for the job.

    So we have the wages that attract the top minds, but then elect a bunch of sheep who blindly follow the party whip or get ejected for daring to think for themeselves.

    True. We attracted B Ahern, he needed to be what, the 3rd highest paid leader in the world. Maybe we should pay them a but less and see who we get.

    Same with judges, they get what €1m in expenses, and if I were going to court as a rapist or a chap that didn't pay a speeding fine, I'd be more fearful about the speeding fine.


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    #76
    Eoin
    Registered Users Posts: 21,242 ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    Pensions should be funded in the same sorts of ways that the private sector is funded and paid for, and at similar levels.

    This is what I would like changed - especially the multiple pensions that many of them seem to be entitled to. I don't really care about the high salaries (or what people think are high), provided you're only rewarded for the time you're in that position.


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    #77
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,487 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Anyone who says they'd do it for a low salary is a liar.

    The job requires a total lifestyle change. Even going out at night could have some nutjob come up ranting in your face. Having every single decision you make torn to shreds by sections of society. Being attacked in newspapers. Having your private affairs scrutinised. Having to constantly be on full alert in case you say something slightly wrong. Making decisions that actually do affect millions of people and trying to balance the books of a country that's up to its neck in debt. The job is incredibly tough.

    People who sit there and moan about how much they are paid are usually the same people whose most important decision of the day is whether to have a ham sandwich or a chicken sandwich for lunch.

    "Get people who love the country". Step out of your little bubble, come in to the real world and wise up.


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    #78
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    They don't get paid that much when you think of what the likes of Pat Kenny and Wayne Rooney earn.

    I wouldn't do Kenny's job for double the money he's getting, and neither would you.

    Doesn't Kenny get paid more than Obama?

    Hardly makes sense for Kenny who "runs" a relatively small country to make less than a country with on a much larger scale.

    It's greed, and it's not Kennys fault, but it is greed.


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    #79
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Doesn't Kenny get paid more than Obama?

    Hardly makes sense for Kenny who "runs" a relatively small country to make less than a country with on a much larger scale.

    It's greed, and it's not Kennys fault, but it is greed.

    No.
    Enda's salary is €130k per annum lower, (excl pension levy) with lower expenses.

    The salary of the taoiseach has been cut twice totaling 30k, its now €185k

    How much would you pay him?


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    #80
    sozbox
    Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Doesn't Kenny get paid more than Obama?

    Hardly makes sense for Kenny who "runs" a relatively small country to make less than a country with on a much larger scale.

    It's greed, and it's not Kennys fault, but it is greed.

    No he doesn't. He gets €185k a year since the Harrington road agreement took effect.
    Obama had a base salary of $400k or €312k at current FX rates.


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    #81
    evo2000
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    awec wrote: »
    Anyone who says they'd do it for a low salary is a liar.

    The job requires a total lifestyle change. Even going out at night could have some nutjob come up ranting in your face. Having every single decision you make torn to shreds by sections of society. Being attacked in newspapers. Having your private affairs scrutinised. Having to constantly be on full alert in case you say something slightly wrong. Making decisions that actually do affect millions of people and trying to balance the books of a country that's up to its neck in debt. The job is incredibly tough.

    People who sit there and moan about how much they are paid are usually the same people whose most important decision of the day is whether to have a ham sandwich or a chicken sandwich for lunch.

    "Get people who love the country". Step out of your little bubble, come in to the real world and wise up.

    No one is saying do it for a low salary, a normal salary or abit above maybe, 200k is ridiculous and if you cant see that then its you my friend that needs to step out of your little bubble! There are far tougher jobs, that pay far less...

    .


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    #82
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    evo2000 wrote: »
    200k is ridiculous

    Its €94k after tax.
    Its high, but he's the leader of a nation ffs.
    There are far tougher jobs, that pay far less...

    Such as?


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    #83
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    evo2000 wrote: »
    a normal salary or abit above maybe

    Grand so.

    What's a normal salary for running an entity as large as Ireland? I'm guessing a hell of a lot more than 200k.


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    #84
    evo2000
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Grand so.

    What's a normal salary for running an entity as large as Ireland? I'm guessing a hell of a lot more than 200k.

    Really? what would be the price for america then since were considering Ireland large... couple a billion a year maybe?? i think your vastly overstating there worth!


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    #85
    evo2000
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Its €94k after tax.
    Its high, but he's the leader of a nation ffs.



    Such as?

    If you cant hazard a guess at which jobs are tougher and paid less then there is no point in me telling you.


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    #86
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,466 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    There was a time when politicians were paid nothing, and you had the wealthy gentry dominate politics as they were essentially the only ones that could participate.


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    #87
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    evo2000 wrote: »
    If you cant hazard a guess at which jobs are tougher and paid less then there is no point in me telling you.

    If you can't bring yourself to make a suggestion, your blowing smoke.

    (And don't say nurse or something clichéd like that, as the other half of a nurse I know they aren't all Florence nightingale)..

    How much do you think the taoiseach should be paid?


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    #88
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,487 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    evo2000 wrote: »
    No one is saying do it for a low salary, a normal salary or abit above maybe, 200k is ridiculous and if you cant see that then its you my friend that needs to step out of your little bubble! There are far tougher jobs, that pay far less...

    .

    Like what?


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    #89
    evo2000
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    If you can't bring yourself to make a suggestion, your blowing smoke.

    (And don't say nurse or something clichéd like that, as the other half of a nurse I know they aren't all Florence nightingale)..

    How much do you think the taoiseach should be paid?

    Alright you got me, i was lying about there being tougher jobs than taoiseach, there is simply no foolin you!

    I think they shouldnt be paid 200k anyway,

    How much do you think they should be paid?

    Any more hairs you d like to split on your grand quest of trying to catch me out!?


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    #90
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    There was a time when politicians were paid nothing, and you had the wealthy gentry dominate politics as they were essentially the only ones that could participate.

    The good old days.


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    #91
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    evo2000 wrote: »
    Alright you got me, i was lying about there being tougher jobs than taoiseach, there is simply no foolin you!

    That's a shame
    I think they shouldnt be paid 200k anyway,
    How much do you think they should be paid?

    I don't really care what he gets paid.
    I don't take too much issue with the rate as it is.

    I certainly don't buy into this SF/quasi-communist bull that everyone should be as poor as the average.


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