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Cork GAA Discussion Thread
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"At the same time almagamating is good for some like Waterford proved it
However limerick with west colleges who I think done well with year one may not continue with it next year as it's apparently not certain they will and they were In in it in 2012 and then didn't continue last year"
I thought most people were aware that amalgamations were not allowed in the Harty Cup last year because the existing schools led by Ard Scoil Ris voted to keep them out following the victory of the Dungarvan Schools in 2012. This was particularly harsh on West Limerick Colleges who had a promising 1st year with a win over Abbey CBS and a draw with Templemore. So this year they were back starting from scratch instead of heading into a 3rd year of Harty.0 -
I was aware that as I said in piece you highlighted, my question is is it worth it in dungarvan were successful and I agree west limerick also to a degree but Ag and Hamilton are flying on their own so the numbers shown cork school fly"At the same time almagamating is good for some like Waterford proved it
However limerick with west colleges who I think done well with year one may not continue with it next year as it's apparently not certain they will and they were In in it in 2012 and then didn't continue last year"
I thought most people were aware that amalgamations were not allowed in the Harty Cup last year because the existing schools led by Ard Scoil Ris voted to keep them out following the victory of the Dungarvan Schools in 2012. This was particularly harsh on West Limerick Colleges who had a promising 1st year with a win over Abbey CBS and a draw with Templemore. So this year they were back starting from scratch instead of heading into a 3rd year of Harty.
I think the essence is top coaching
The ccb wanted hamilton to amalgamated before but they declined there flying at the moment0 -
Saying they did not continue would suggest that they decided not to enter which is unfair to the people involved who are trying to improve standards in an area with little senior hurling. It's a pity that some of the bigger schools saw that as a threat to their elite status.0
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Im not suggesting anything they didn't continue could equally mean we're not to allowed to continueSaying they did not continue would suggest that they decided not to enter which is unfair to the people involved who are trying to improve standards in an area with little senior hurling. It's a pity that some of the bigger schools saw that as a threat to their elite status.
I did say it worked in Waterford and imo should be continued as it's good for Waterford schools
I think great work work has been done by real gaa people down there
I think the poor harty cup runs they have this year will unfortunately hinder Waterford minors in there's a strong link between harty cup and minor success
Hopefully ye will reinvented the system or tweak it etc and be strong in a year or too
I'm not sure if your referencing that im unfair to limerick underage but if you are I disagree as I am huge fan and said this week and indeed in post recently Regards limerick minors am in awe with their underage system and I said and advocate strongly limerick underage minor model from u14 up should be followed by cork as they have achieved sustainable success and deserves immense Credit for it and I said this week even cork being successful in harty this year is just start as we haven't reached limerick excellent consistency yet
Imo most counties should follow limerick model and their academy structure is just immense
I praised last week their games manager who imo is brilliant and possibly the best in munster and when Wallis leave limerick he will carry it on I would guess
Limerick are not just producing minors but they have brillant under fourteen etc and up
I think they will win u21. In two years at least win munster and you win munster you get to all ireland as with respect to ulster they wouldn't be strong
I couldn't see this bunch limerick talents and management loosing an all ireland at this grade
The numbers with schools make it interesting for cork in its hard to know while it's successful if almagamating would suit cork and if so which schools to almagamating as genuinely it's imo a difficult choice0 -
The one Cork team that has giving us more to celebrate over the past decade or so is the u21 footballers ....in following them all the way for me the greatest wins have come against Kerry more so in Kerry venues ....Munster Champions in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014.......All-Ireland Champions in 2007 and 2009 .....All-Ireland Runners up in 2006 and 2013......So whats likely to happen in 2015 ? Kerry are going flat out they are playing in the Hastings Cup in preparation like Tipp did last year ....so for us it will be a tough championship to win again ......whats our team panel going to be ......how about this team !
Michael O Mairtin
Jamie Davis Kevin Flahive Stephen Cronin
Kevin Crowley Sean White Cian Kiely
Ian MaGuire Peter Kelleher
Cathal Vaughan Sean O Donoughue Brian O Driscoll
Michael Hurley Killian O Connor Jack Bushe.........
sub....Paul Shanahan, Michael McSweeney, Dylan Quinn, Kieran Histon, Thomas O Rourke, Kevin O Neill, Darragh Murphy, Ryan Harkin, Conor Kingston, Michael Desmond, Brian Coakley, Peter O Neill, Kevin Davis, Richard O Sullivan, Sean T.O.Sullivan, Don O Driscoll , Trevor Horgan, and Cian Dorgan.......
A lot of talent there so I think we can put together a very good team there .....I picked Brian O Driscoll at wing forward normaly I don't like playing players out of position but O Driscoll is a very good player and will bring very good experience to the middle 8....0 -
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http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/mental-strength-driving-aghinagh-to-new-heights-299952.html
Brilliant piece on Aghinagh young lad's the aera of briege corkery
Brillanty written also well worth a read.
I always admire pieces that promote under age gaa there great for clubs raise the profile imo.
I think Denis done similar piece on aghada minors football a month back back I think, but imo it was equally as splendid..
Underage imo is the foundation for all fortress of sustainable success to be built on and kept.
I'm looking forward to the echo tonight in I hope they do a preview of. The all ireland u16 hurling final tonight as both teams imo deserve it and this magical purely magical competition deserves it also imo.
Fridays sports edition to be fair credit where due, are remarkably consistently and over all very good and imo and you get real value as a reader buying the Friday edition. I thourghly enjoy them and said this many times before.
It's well worth it.
True value is the enjoyment you get out of something imo.
I thourghly enjoy that editon.
I remember last year they done a wonderful piece in that edition regards the cork minors new set up.
It really imo got the profile and interest back in to the minors as it raised the knowledge of the whole set up and information opens up the world of possibles so by having information more people will follow it especially when you remind them of the wonderful success and culture of Denis ring in hurling the last twenty years at least espiceally in underage hurling with Colmans and indeed cork minors and since then Fermoy intermediate winning hurling team.
Good team to an extent double
But the half forward line won't work too unbalanced imo with o donoughue and driscoll in there in there similar type of players to some extent imo
Id swap in o driscoll is fine at ten and played there for ucc but I'd have him at seven in he's superb passer of the ball, unreal vision can split a defence with a forty yard pass like Zidane in he's day
Kiely would be in driscoll position and he can link defence and attack but imo better scoring potential and a real worker like driscoll
I'd have ryan harkin at ten, on panel last year for bit unlucky didn't make cut superb v dublin under lights in challenge match at ten with he's option to help midfield but he's creative also with Vaughan at centre forward more creative than o donoughue and is a super kick passer of the ball and such guile and poise and pace
I'm huge fan o dougoughe real real real leader and next year he will start.
He could this year but you must have the balance right.
Vaughan imo certain to start if injury free.
Crowley also depends on hes shoulder.
Dorgan has to start in corner imo ahead of bushe
The corner back won't do in Davis imo is suspect one v one defending and Kieran histon on panel last year much tighter corner back and would be superb
Kerry have donie buckley and they are going to be a real team in Darragh o she can talk the talk as manager he's good at that all credit due but buckley can actually coach and has to be one of the best in the county.
Good advantage is cork have home advantage but kerry under buckley are leaving no stone unturned
In they know they have no game til cork so hastings cup is idea for the
Them and v the ulster teams in it will improve them no end
Cork can win and might but year 2016 kerry with minors this year home advantage will be very hard to beat
Kerry will win u21 all ireland with buckley
This year could be last for a bit as Hayes and gene terms is up and you can never tell with ccb but all credit due got the last three appointments right in this grade and deserves immense Credit for that
Minors I don't rate o sullivan in yes he's record is brilliant beara at senior and 21 in 97 but this is unfortunately 2015, time waits for no man woman or child so I'm worried is he up to modern coaching, however from panel he picked this year and what I hear he seemed learn last year however game management will be crucial and we have wait and see
Juniors will win the all ireland or least munster as they have kerry at home and full strength panel again but kerry new management will be tough
Senior set up would be doing well to win a mcgrath cup this year
I will do team start mcgrath cup soon but one thing I say none this nonense starting clancy at full back or dorman at two or playing defenders like loughrey at corner back cuthbhert done last year
One bit of shrewd advice I'd give Brian is study corner back play the last twenty years it has not changed greatly and you do not bar the odd exception like Kevin crowley play half backs as corner backs as corner back is a specialised position in you must be able to have a natural instinct to react to different match scenarios.
I don't think cuthbhert by hes record last year in league and championship and mcgrath cup understand imo good corner play and what it requires.0 -
Any venue's for harty cup cork limerick games next week?????0
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TTM, Donie Buckley is not with Kerry 21s, he's sticking with Mayo for 2015.0
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ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »TTM, Donie Buckley is not with Kerry 21s, he's sticking with Mayo for 2015.
Go way I though he'd go to kerry
Buckley is shrewd im huge fan of him
What's he doing staying with joke shop of joint management in mayo where too many chefs spoil the broth
Thank for that
Imo cork should beat kerry now Darragh great player poor manager moyinhan unproven0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Im not suggesting anything they didn't continue could equally mean we're not to allowed to continue
I did say it worked in Waterford and imo should be continued as it's good for Waterford schools
I think great work work has been done by real gaa people down there
I think the poor harty cup runs they have this year will unfortunately hinder Waterford minors in there's a strong link between harty cup and minor success
Hopefully ye will reinvented the system or tweak it etc and be strong in a year or too
I'm not sure if your referencing that im unfair to limerick underage but if you are I disagree as I am huge fan and said this week and indeed in post recently Regards limerick minors am in awe with their underage system and I said and advocate strongly limerick underage minor model from u14 up should be followed by cork as they have achieved sustainable success and deserves immense Credit for it and I said this week even cork being successful in harty this year is just start as we haven't reached limerick excellent consistency yet
Imo most counties should follow limerick model and their academy structure is just immense
I praised last week their games manager who imo is brilliant and possibly the best in munster and when Wallis leave limerick he will carry it on I would guess
Limerick are not just producing minors but they have brillant under fourteen etc and up
I think they will win u21. In two years at least win munster and you win munster you get to all ireland as with respect to ulster they wouldn't be strong
I couldn't see this bunch limerick talents and management loosing an all ireland at this grade
The numbers with schools make it interesting for cork in its hard to know while it's successful if almagamating would suit cork and if so which schools to almagamating as genuinely it's imo a difficult choice
Geographically it could prove very difficult for Cork schools to amalgamate as the county is large and provides challanges re programs and development etc, perhaps this is the kernel of the problem in Cork the sheer size of the County. The obivous consilodation of the North Monastery and the AG Mhuire would be one that springs to mind. No matter what issues one has about the development squads and their make up one thing is abundantly clear it has improved and developed underage players in Cork.
The issue that remains is that due to lack of resources and investment the summer training panels are trimed down to smaller numbers in the winter time and unless the so called fringe players are highly motivated they can fall behind in the development stakes. Its near on impossible to select kids at 15 and 16 years and say with confidence that these are the senior stars of the future. I feel it would not be a step to far to keep perhaps 60 kids on a program throughout a year give them individal programs to retain the motivation and reguraly check in with them and their club mentors to see how they are progressing. Creating elite programs with limited groups can very often exclude children that develope at later stages. The larger the target group the better chance of producing a complement of senior players at the end.
The academy structure would appear to be working and I will cite the recent game between the AG Mhuire and Colmans as an example.
Stepen Condon, the only Colman's forward to score, Cork Academy player.
The O'Leary twins, Academy players
Jeremy Saich Academy player
Danny Gunning, Evan Sheehan, Jamie Morrisey, killian Ahern, Colin O' Sullivan, all have come through the academy in some shape or form. I did not include the older players as the academy in its present form only really exists for the last two years.
This is a success story in the making have no doubt but its weakness is also highlighted by the fact that Jeremy Saich was brought in to the fold only last year as a result of a phone call made to a selector. Thats some stroke of luck but if the call had not been made he would still be undiscovered in the wilderness.
Killian Ahern despite putting in preformances way beyond his years excluded from winter training panels surely this type of player has to be developed and nurtured.
These are two examples why the Academy structure is not all encompassing and falls short. Perhaps I am wrong and the likes of Ahern, Coleman Blackrock, Shine Blarney are being monitored and mentored outside the program.
We have the right idea but we need to enlarge the process to hold numbers from which players will come.
If Saich had not been promoted what would he have done, been written off never considered for panels etc. This it too haphazard and unprofessional and the whole process is subjective and depends on the abilities of coaches to identify potential when they see it.
As our friend TTM extols on a regurlar basis its all about the coaches. I heard a Cork u14 coach give feedback to a young man where he clearly told the kid he was mentally weak. What qualifactions or right gave him the ability to anlayse and give feedback like that to a 13 year old. None whatsoever. Needless to say the team and the coach were not succesful. We have in Cork a huge base and kids that are stone crazy for hurling as much as kids in any county we just need to use resources. Suggestion appoint, a director of development perhaps an ex senior manager or figure. Limit the solicitation from clubs for inclusions in underage county squads. Have open trials in all grades from u14 to Minor let it be transparent and open. If any kid feels like he can step up let him have a go.
The whole standard needs to be picked up and improved and catering simply for the elite will not work in the long run.0 -
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thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Go way I though he'd go to kerry
Buckley is shrewd im huge fan of him
What's he doing staying with joke shop of joint management in mayo where too many chefs spoil the broth
Thank for that
Imo cork should beat kerry now Darragh great player poor manager moyinhan unproven
Yep. Much like in Cork, some people in Kerry can't grasp the concept of good coaching being a priority, especially with underage teams. No proven coach involved with Kerry 21s again this year now.0 -
Geographically it could prove very difficult for Cork schools to amalgamate as the county is large and provides challanges re programs and development etc, perhaps this is the kernel of the problem in Cork the sheer size of the County. The obivous consilodation of the North Monastery and the AG Mhuire would be one that springs to mind. No matter what issues one has about the development squads and their make up one thing is abundantly clear it has improved and developed underage players in Cork.
The issue that remains is that due to lack of resources and investment the summer training panels are trimed down to smaller numbers in the winter time and unless the so called fringe players are highly motivated they can fall behind in the development stakes. Its near on impossible to select kids at 15 and 16 years and say with confidence that these are the senior stars of the future. I feel it would not be a step to far to keep perhaps 60 kids on a program throughout a year give them individal programs to retain the motivation and reguraly check in with them and their club mentors to see how they are progressing. Creating elite programs with limited groups can very often exclude children that develope at later stages. The larger the target group the better chance of producing a complement of senior players at the end.
The academy structure would appear to be working and I will cite the recent game between the AG Mhuire and Colmans as an example.
Stepen Condon, the only Colman's forward to score, Cork Academy player.
The O'Leary twins, Academy players
Jeremy Saich Academy player
Danny Gunning, Evan Sheehan, Jamie Morrisey, killian Ahern, Colin O' Sullivan, all have come through the academy in some shape or form. I did not include the older players as the academy in its present form only really exists for the last two years.
This is a success story in the making have no doubt but its weakness is also highlighted by the fact that Jeremy Saich was brought in to the fold only last year as a result of a phone call made to a selector. Thats some stroke of luck but if the call had not been made he would still be undiscovered in the wilderness.
Killian Ahern despite putting in preformances way beyond his years excluded from winter training panels surely this type of player has to be developed and nurtured.
These are two examples why the Academy structure is not all encompassing and falls short. Perhaps I am wrong and the likes of Ahern, Coleman Blackrock, Shine Blarney are being monitored and mentored outside the program.
We have the right idea but we need to enlarge the process to hold numbers from which players will come.
If Saich had not been promoted what would he have done, been written off never considered for panels etc. This it too haphazard and unprofessional and the whole process is subjective and depends on the abilities of coaches to identify potential when they see it.
As our friend TTM extols on a regurlar basis its all about the coaches. I heard a Cork u14 coach give feedback to a young man where he clearly told the kid he was mentally weak. What qualifactions or right gave him the ability to anlayse and give feedback like that to a 13 year old. None whatsoever. Needless to say the team and the coach were not succesful. We have in Cork a huge base and kids that are stone crazy for hurling as much as kids in any county we just need to use resources. Suggestion appoint, a director of development perhaps an ex senior manager or figure. Limit the solicitation from clubs for inclusions in underage county squads. Have open trials in all grades from u14 to Minor let it be transparent and open. If any kid feels like he can step up let him have a go.
The whole standard needs to be picked up and improved and catering simply for the elite will not work in the long run.
You'd wonder in the rush for counties to set up academies and perform well at tony forristall under 14 that players that may not fit the bill at that age are being left behind. Think I saw/read an interview with Paul Flynn saying he probably wouldn't have made an academy at 14 as he was too off the cuff and not the 'right' type of player at that age.
Certainly telling a 13 year old they lacked mental toughness is harsh given how impressionable they are at that age, may also turn him off the sport, yes counties need to keep a conveyer belt of talent going but as you say keep it open and let players come in and out of the system, the cream at 14 may be gone sour by 18! Don't like the idea of players being systemised when they are 13 and expected to perform like battery hens, let them hurl away with the clubs and schools and bring in 100-200 for training every 6 weeks or something like that, you're broadening the base and allowing the players space in which to grow.0 -
Black water V W limerick is on in Charleville. Doon V AG is in mallow. Castletroy V Colmans is in Ballyagran
Some Schools are really doing outstanding work. Charleville CBS got to harty cup final few yrs ago with less numbers than are currently in school.I remember reading at the time that Ard Scoil ris ( with Dowling, Hannon etc) had nearly 1000 pupils and Charleville had 250. Mallow for a big town are an example of a town where schools hurling is neglected. At the end of the day the schools with the lrger no. of pupils have a massive advantage.0 -
You'd wonder in the rush for counties to set up academies and perform well at tony forristall under 14 that players that may not fit the bill at that age are being left behind. Think I saw/read an interview with Paul Flynn saying he probably wouldn't have made an academy at 14 as he was too off the cuff and not the 'right' type of player at that age.
Certainly telling a 13 year old they lacked mental toughness is harsh given how impressionable they are at that age, may also turn him off the sport, yes counties need to keep a conveyer belt of talent going but as you say keep it open and let players come in and out of the system, the cream at 14 may be gone sour by 18! Don't like the idea of players being systemised when they are 13 and expected to perform like battery hens, let them hurl away with the clubs and schools and bring in 100-200 for training every 6 weeks or something like that, you're broadening the base and allowing the players space in which to grow.
Good post. Kids grow and develop at different ages. Just because a kid is big and strong at 14 doesn't mean he will be good at minor. Likewise a small skillfull 14 discarded at development squads will grow bigger and stronger but does not get a further chance because of no open trials. Development squad system needs to be tweaked IMO.0 -
At last I can post an 21 team cork hurling without negativy and instead it's replaced by confidence, belief for the ist time in six years
Waterford will tough but certainly can be beaten in cork by cork as poor as cork were they beat them last year mainly due to the brilliance of Patrick collins
Waterford have talent sublime talent but not sure management who's in there but cork have top class management
Collins
Cian walsh
Dennehy
David doolin or gunning or histon
Stephen Murphy
Callaghan
Twomey
Richard cahalane
Luke meade
Pa Callaghan
Kevin o Neill
Kinery
Anthony spillane
Mark o connor
Sean Hayes
Roughly could change
Seventh totally agree with your articulate post, this thread is really becoming elite in knowledge of information imo
You're spot on with saich he was missed through the system and called up in may just around by a very very astute cork man that spotted him
Saich has beautiful balance telephatic understanding of feet movement imo , truly moves like Michael flatly the Lord of the dance in he's movement is spell binding brilliant, he has hurling and skill, yes physically like any youngster that comes in time but he's a super player
Likes ronan Harrington of that great I mean great club passages one to watch
If Harrington had exposure to harty cup hed be awesome
I agree Ag maybee but the rest don't need to almagate
Limerick have the best model in underage and there currently doing a six week introduction academy for over hundred players for u14 next year
The training is brilliant and I saw one session while Passing through I saw it.
It was not strict but more enjoyment trying to get the fun element in it and lot of it was fitness training but drills were very good but it was not too demanding, it was an enticement for further down the line
Jerry Wallis took the lead and always encouraging the lads never roaring etc even when mistakes naturally were made it was always more what they done right then wrong
They went for a run and even last runners were congratulations and he made point encouraging them well done etc so they did not feel left out.
That's great coaching with kids.
You can have organised training, structured but also have it very enjoyable at underage.
It's about balance like everything in life.
Then hurling drills hooking blocking etc were done.
Noel hartigan was there also and it's brilliant to see
There was one particular cork. Underage coach and he's level communication in the past was appalling imo in you wouldn't see it in the army even.
Yes at senior etc you must be ruthless as players are young men and came through the system but young lad's at u 15 etc must be treated right and encouraged.
Michael john shine is brilliant talent and on beaten blarney the last day the midfield oozed class.
He will develop under Nash and I believe Nash has been done Trojan work with he's free taking
Anthony Nash teacher there
Crowley meant going blarney around new year bit coaching drills
Cairrailuaith I'm not going be hyprrcrite and say I'm not delighted buckley is not with Kerry as that's great news for cork but I genuinely feel your pain in seeing young talents being wasted by poor management and as you correctly said cork are no stranger to it
Thank you smith
I'll go to colmans game if can as I haven't seen them this year and I seen Ag mhuire
I have charville u14 team played ard scoil in last week cracker limerick final ist year a draw.I wasn't at it but I. Was told team lfor you want it by a girl at it
Two outstanding talents she told me for ard scoil to watch for in the future and this girl knows her gaa, female version of myself in realising potential in hurling.
These lad's could be playing dean ryan next year possibly.
A great Friday supplements in echo today the brilliant underrated Mary white was splendid in her coverage mourneabbey.
A top top writer who really understands the game and appreciate it's core values
I'm hugely disappointed though just my opinion in preview of tommorrow all ireland u16 hurling final by another reporter.
He brilliantly gave superb knowledge on midelton but not once not once did he mention a good counsel player by name or even their manager and surely to god Declan wall could be mentioned after winning Leinster intermediate club with mullinvat Sunday
Like if your doing a preview imo cover both teams this is an all ireland final after all in fairness, and both schools are wonderful so really tell us bout them
This writer has given excellent preview schools games before like dean ryan cup final preview last year on both teams but I was disappointed in reading it
.
All I got was good counsel are very strong and have kilkenny players etc won football.
Luckily I have huge knowledge of the team as I study meticulously every opponent but just imagine your the Joe blogs going the game and you know just cork lad's you won't get much information regards good counsel from reading that article imo.
Yes it's cork paper but when cork play kerry etc both teams annalised imo you cant do great preview with out covering both teams
He's assessment of midelton was superb but like surely as a reporter it's easy to get knowledge of wexford school.
It was the same with munster gaa their preview of dean ryan cup was poor in it named two teams credit due but mentioned just Brian mcgrath no player of midelton
If you want to raise profile of schools hurling give it the profile it deserves in big games.
However the last game Wednesday they gave brilliant piece on mticheatown v blarney munster c final wonderful in depth preview.
What I like to see is consistently in excellence.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »All ireland u16 hurling preview school final Saturday
Good counsel panel v midelton
Coaches Declan wall pauric Cullen
I started from goal keeper, then corner back. Full back, corner back. Half back etc and done my analysis.
I saw them play just once but a High octane thriller you could learn a lot bout their style of play.
Jack Byrne Doyle mullinavat fine save v Evan niland kilkenny u15 keeper. super ability under a high ball and very agile.
Cathal o connor rathnure played sweeper brilliant reader of the game
Jack walsh rower inistioege terrific full back can play centre and did a fine job
Very composed.
Chris keegan has done tremendously well particularly v charville scoring wise but in the dean ryan he broke a lot of ball.
He got to do same in this game but he Is capable of doing so and he doesn't need to score just win ball and bring the excellent Chris power and dazzling silky skills hurling of liam gosnell in to the game game.
Power could not start earlier games but impressed v flannans as a sub,brilliant v charville, and a goal and two v our lady's will start again.
He can play half forward also so can start 15 but play as a half forward If they play the sweeper.
Richard hennessey Glenmore solid defender kilkenny u15 hurler
Two yellow cards so I presume won't miss the final
Jamie myler st James ramsgrange
Very strong in the air fine point
In Charlie terry he has a huge battle ahead.
Charlie got two awesome scores in the dean ryan cup final,he is a good man to win ball and help midfield and will need to help twomey and crotty as o connor and Nolan are a formidable outfit and sinnott when he stays at half forward drops to midfield for puck outs.
Eoin porter cushintown wexford club fine hurler ireland u16 soccer international
Played with Tony Davis son Eoin Davis who plays underage with Douglas and a fine gaelic footballer by all accounts, porter is a wexford hurler and footballer
Plays football school
Andy leahy has a huge battle in he has a great opponent but jack walsh I won't be surprised he plays at six.
Leahy should take huge confidence from doing as good as anyone could on Brian mcgrath and better than most.
Brian mcgrath is an exceptional, exceptional hurler the best centre back in dean ryan and honestly I'd say up there with the Chris o leary, ronan lynch,jack mcdonnell,Colin Ryan, In comparison with harty and dean Ryan centre backs.
Imo mcgrath is probably the closest to ronan lynch in so talented so young.
If I was the coach I would be telling Andy how great mcgrath was so he realises how good he done against him.
Richard gill tullogher rosbecron kilkenny club plays minor kilkenny championship club very good hurler
One main point with the defenders is there all very interchangable, very versatile, walsh went to six,porter can play full back, o connor played sweeper role like connor sullivan for cork such perfection he could easily go to half back and so in essence they can change in a game roles to suit the opponents they play so imo they will be very strong.
Midfield
Sean Nolan horsewood wexford club, point terrific hurler
Thomas o connor tullogher rosbecron goal and two points and very strong plays soccer ireland underage plays minor club in kilkenny championship, u15 kilkenny hurler, plays football school
Daire Crotty will have to mark o connor imo.
He's got to stay with him in he's strong and fast and has to limit o connor
Brendan twomey is a great worker and has hurling in coal face of midfield
Forwards
Luke sinnott Tadghmon wexford club superb goal and brilliant free taker
Imperious under high ball, lords the skies, joy to behold, such young players be so so dominant in the air it was one of best displays aerial ball winning ability ive seen at school genuinely.
One man for the role, has to be mcdonnell.
He has harty cup expierence and cork development expierence was outstanding all year for midelton he holds the centre well but imo must man sinnott.
In he's goes to the wing, mcdonnell has to follow.
Now sinnott is different and difficult to mark cause in he's like tj Reid he drifts in to full forward seemingly and is lethal.He does this in spells from what I saw the the last day.
If hes at half forward on puck outs runs out to midfield to win clean ball.
He's a tj Reid type of player,zonal defending won't hold this guy,you must do man man marking, this lad is imo an exceptional talent.
If he goes to full forward Sean o leary Hayes has has to pick him up.
They must be constant in man marking him and it's vital communication between Hayes and mcdonnell and the line, in selectors must like you see most teams do man section ptich, to command instructions. If sinnott goes in they must communicate Sean o leary Hayes has to pick him up.
That's the only time mcdonnell leaves him.
I wouldn't worry bout they playing four man inside full forward line, they will know mcdonnell is very good so they will always drop a forward out to mark him.
Sinnott cannot be left marked by a corner back in he is lethal in the air imo mcdonnell or leary Hayes only men for him as leahy has huge task keeping Higgins quiet.
Mark o niell guessrane wexford club Fast and direct hurler
Jim ryan rower inistioege kilkenny u15 hurler
Good fast hands, helps midfield very good hurler on breaking ball.
Mcconville midelton been super all year and this should be some mouth watering battle,two fine hurlers.
The full forward line
Rory Higgins rathnure two points very strong
Ed leahy has to pick him up in he Is imo the best forward in their full forward line.
Leahy held fair brother of our lady's as good as could be expected he is top top corner back that can play five or six.
Played in the dean cup final last year, so he has huge expierence and confidence from last year.
Jimmy Sutton fethard strong in the air
Sam wall guessrane wexford club
Good hurler.
Adam daly and o connor compliment Sean o leary Hayes in the full back line, daly being a relevation starting the last day.
They have a tough hour ahead against a fine good counsel inside line.
Subs
Darragh Hartley Glenmore u14 kilkenny hurler
Darren Hayden Tadghmon
Eammon o sullivan horsewood
Michael galvan rower inistioege
Eoughan bryne rathnure
Michael cleere Geraldine o hanahrahan
Tom Doyle rower inistioege
Evin Murphy cushintown
Alec hatt rower inistioege
Extended panel
Ricky mcgrath
Robrie walsh
Shane byrne
Thomas furlong
Diarmuid kehoe
Domhnall mcgahan
Danny Murphy
Jp furlong
Darragh lyons injured also but very good hurler I was told at match
Andrew walsh captain injured not sure if he'll play
Wexford lad's told me at the game he's very good at football also.
Shane byrne
MIDELTON EAST CORK SCHOOL CURRENT DEAN RYAN CUP CHAMPIONS
Management alwyin kearney tim collins
1.Ross Walsh (St. Colman’s)
2.Adam daly midelton
3.Sean O’ Leary Hayes (Midleton)
4.Ed Leahy (Aghada)
5.Sean O’ Meara (Midleton)
6.Jack McDonnell (Aghada)
7.Ryan McConville (Midleton)
8.Daire Crotty (Carrigtwohill) – Captain
9.Brendan Twomey (Carrigtwohill)
10.Charlie Terry (Aghada)
11.Andrew Leahy (Killeagh)
12.padraig o brien (midelton)
13.Chris power (midleton)
14.Conor Keegan (Carrigtwohill)
15.Liam Gosnell (Carrigtwohill)
16.Aaron Walsh (Killeagh)
17.Aaron Walsh Barry (Carrigtwohill)
18.liam o shea lisgoold
19.Eoin O’ Sullivan (St. Colman’s)
20.Kalen O’ Donoghue (Aghada)
21.sean o connor rathnure
22.Christopher Coughlan (Killeagh)
23.Sean O’ Sullivan (Midleton)
24 Eoin Dorgan (Fr. O’ Neill’s)
25 jamie Landers
26 john O’ Dwyer
27 Natthew Leahy
28 M ichael Kelly
28 Cathal Gunning
Players played in this year harty, leahy and jack mcdonnell as half forward
Routes to the final
MIDELTON
Ist round
Midelton beat Nenagh 2-23 to 3-13
Quater Final
Midelton beat flannans jamsie.o connor 4-8 to 3-8. Flannans played the sweeper clare style in that game, a fine team to be fair that will be serious harty cup team two years imo.
Semi final
Midelton beat charville 2-11 to 0-7
Dean ryan cup final Midelton 1-10 to our lady's 0-12
In 4 games they scored 9-52 and conceded 6-40
Their average scoring per game is around 2-13 approx conceding an average per game of just over one goal and ten
Midelton beat Ard scoil last year at cashel venue to win since 1989 and end 24 year wait for dean Ryan cup when Brendan butty mccarthy carrigtwohill lifted the famous trophy in Munster u 16 1/2 hurling in the de la creme de la creme of this age group in Munster Hurling but lost the all ireland final to an exceptional kilkenny cbs team.
Midelton have experience of last year in Padraig o.brien, Charlie terry, mcdonnell,ed leahy were all involved in the panel. Huge bonus to them.
Ed leahy started half back, jack mcdonnell half forward, padraig o brien corner forward got vital point in dean ryan final so that belief experience will be enormous benefit them in Cashel
Midelton won rice 2012, cork 14 colleges also captain fantastic jack mcdonnell back then ,they also won white cup in 2013
,have lost none or at most just one approximately game down the years with this group.
The school down the years Won and contested rice cup regularly, won white and dean,Callaghan cups, u 14 cork title etc, in essence this wonderful truly wonderful I mean wonderful now, great cork school of former great legend Brian cocranan, donal og cusack, The rock who won a Harty as a half forward and fine one at that, etc has evolved culture from hoping to win to believe they will and expect win at all levels and huge benefit for them in any final
Core of good counsel group also won Paul mcgirr cup this year in football beating rochestown 1-16 to 1-5 when rochestown had quality players such as John cashman, Shane kingston, ciaran cormack, Evan Ryle,Sam collins bar cashman all playing among others corn u mhuire while cashman plays harty cup.
Eoin porter, tomas o connor 8 points in the football final, Luke sinnott, mark o niell Jamie myler all played a part in that all ireland win proving their big game winners also beat in hurling st Kierans, all ireland champions kilkenny cbs, and a athenry side in Galway that had seven clarinbridge hurlers in which clarinbridge won three feile in row 11,12,13 and had mark Kennedy who played in the tony Forristal for Galway,Evan niland 1-12 on Galway minor panel just 15,certain starter imo next year and conor walsh who played tony Forristal also so they have beaten teams with top players and don't fear anyone and have huge confidence in their own ability and credit due at the end of them for that.
A very formidable opponent.
Work ethic is hugely important with these lad's.
They would got huge confidence in Beating Kierans and kilkenny cbs however for bones thirty five minutes they struggled to shake of fourteen men and while changes were made that won them the game the sweeper allowed a one six to point lead become level pegging at half time in which sweeper allowed Galway minor panelists Evan niland scorer one tewilve one six play be curbed.
The sweeper system they played well the last day I feel will do it this time also with Cathal o connor performing the role.
What's hard to know is who drops back from forwards in they were allowed to do that role as athenry had a man sent off.
Crucially if they want a sweeper they have to sacfrice a forward this time.
Midelton beat jamsie.o connor flannans sweeper system already so they know how to beat such a system.
If midelton need to play a sweeper liam o shea can play deeper allowing terry play deep, and twomey dropping back.
Midelton Must keep cool heads and composure is a must but they can be beaten
The fact they don't have a semi final replay won't affect them at all all in the dean ryan final was played Friday where good counsel had game Saturday so both teams have had similar break and being just their fifth game they will be relatively fresh
Midelton can win in the sun,Rain the wind,a huge confidence of a team and haven't peaked yet.
I had questioned our lady's in after epic semi final thriller week before could they replicate that magnitude performance just week later, always tough ask.
Midelton ground out a win so this is more in them.
The fact that good counsel won unlike our lady's in struggled beat fourteen men should have midleton aware in good counsel know they can improve so enthralling battle awaits.
Behind any good man they say There is the support of a good woman or now days even a man itself which there's nothing wrong with that at all at all.
Behind any good team is a good coach. You can't have one with out the other.
In any post I do I have a strong correlation with management to talent available.
I can't emphasise how significant great coaching is.
It's the foundation of success.
Good counsel are a further example of good indeed excellent coaching.Wall and Cullen have won various u14 Leinster with this group players, u16s Leinster title's also.
But looking at Declan wall cv it's impressive to be honest.
Mullinvat in kilkenny were not doing as good as they expected to be in intermediate hurling in kilkenny.
Two years ago they had a review, and they said In their agm they had training inconstantes but knew the talents was there.
They even mentioned it in the local paper.
Kilkenny, such honesty even in a club team to say we have problems and it's not right.That's why kilkenny will never have problems.
They said it and no one got offended, it was not personal they just made observation of training.
Nothing more or less.
Christ if that was done in cork they be black smoke,do not critise.
Anyway, wall took over and just guess what happened next , no we don't have to go 50:50 or phone a friend he won a Leinster intermediate hurling title to compliment the county title he won in year two this Sunday.
.
Mullinvat ist ever lenister intermediate title he coached them to it and just their fourth county intermediate title.
Out of 27 matches so far with mullinvat, between league and championship and alward cup and challenges he has won 24 games as coach this year winning the league and championship.
Two challenge matches he lost and the alward cup
Just look at that record it seems to me he's real kilkenny breed of coach, whether it's a challenge match or a game of ping pong or marbles or chess or snap he wants to win. I like and admire and respect coaches like that and I don't care what county there form.
I always respect a winning Mentailtly. I crave for a cork coach with that Mentailtly.
They lost the alward cup and apparently he wasn't a happy bunny.But he evolved the team.
That mullinvat team lost an 21 county final but he came in and developed them further.
Sign of a good coach.
He's involved with development squads in kilkenny and coaches on speed work.
He wouldn't be involved in kilkenny If he wasn't good.
Wouldn't be surprised to see him with a kilkenny intercounty team in the future.He's record is on an upward curve of progression
He seems a winner to be honest. He has a ruthless attention to detail by all accounts he will know midelton inside out and don't be surprised if midelton in the dean ryan cup final he had watched as they knew If they won their semi final they play the winners so as their game was a day the dean ryan final they had to watch them as they could not wait til they won their game as it was day after and would of been too late.
He's a good coach with a Kilkenny Dna, never beaten so they have a side line that can game manage.
More importantly they have that ruthless winning Mentailtly both on and off the field.
This will be some all ireland for midelton to win if they win it.
They have wexford hurlers and carlow lad's also.
Dont be fooled carlow have good hurlers just look at mullins that played with na piarssigh and cork as fine a player he was.
They beat dublin in underage recently.
Alwyin kearney and tim collins are good coaches fot midelton and are winners too.
They coached white cup, rice cups. Dean Cups success, and crucially have made changes in games like bringing in Chris power to start and also made changes in games so they can game manage.
Alwyin an accomplished player for midelton would I think played cork b team in strikes.
Good young coach.You see he would have had the benefit seeing jerry Wallis coach midelton before Coaching so he knows good drills.
Being a teacher himself he would have been a good student so he knows when to learn, you couldn't learn more from a coach the caliber of Wallis.
Both sides have good coaching and both have played a sweeper in their time so this yes even at school could be tactical have no doubt as both teams lost an u16 all ireland final in good counsel two years ago,midelton last year so both want to win.
School hurling has evolved also.
Good counsel have expierence confidence Paul mcgirr cup in football And will do history by being the ist ever school to hold all ireland football and hurling in the same year at U16.Before any one says dualism is alive however keep in mind football was won in may the hurling usually takes place in February but moved forward this year at the request of the schools.
The football Is over. So it hasn't been week after week hurling and football.
midelton have pain hurt last year final loss and that can be a huge motivating factor in itself and I don't feel their overwhelming favourites if indeed at all so their isn't huge pressure on them
Imo id have both teams evens.
This is a school that done cork hurling proud no matter what
Just one note Sean o leary Hayes if anyone has free day wants to see potential cork senior full back, and how full backs should dominate a game and do orthodox style full back play watch this lad.
Now not to pick him for cork but to see how a full back should play a game.
A certainty to be minor full back in two years bar injuy.
A joy to behold in he's play o leary is a leader and commander of he's unit also.
I truly can't wait for this game I'm like a child counting the days to Xmas. At last common sense prevailed and the game Is in the all weather in wit and the ptich will suit both teams and even in incessant rain the game can still be Fast flowing
The game I saw in North campus in ul was on a top surface.
Call It hugely difficult game to call honestly,two evenly matched teams and I saw both play, counsel just once but hugely impressive.
These lad's are eager to hurl, huge enthusiasm for the game.
Before they played athenry they were on the ptich warming up themselves, getting the touch in, well before the game, could not get on the ptich fast enough.
They are a fine team with a young coach also.
Good counsel yes came back when they had a man advantage, when athenry got a man send off, but the level of compsure and work ethic and do not panic mantra really has made me not as adamant as I was last week midelton would win.
Either team can win it really comes down imo to who performs to their ability on the day.
This must be the ist time I ever sat on the fence, did not predict a winner. I honestly can't as this game is too too evenly matched in players and management.
I hope the rock, cusack, cocranan, Paudie sullivan, all great I mean great really great great players support midelton Saturday as their former pupils and if I was manager I'd be using Brian the great or cusack to give these lad's a motivating talk in the week up to the game.
Cusack would be an inspiration and cork Camoige team I hear were delighted with him in he's talk the pre week the all ireland final
I don't know the ref but Fergal horgan I presume would be the man for It,a good referee, no referee is perfect but he's good.
He won't blow for everything.
This could be some game and a shame there will be only one winner.
Just said I repost it on the eve of the all ireland final
If they win it will be some victory and they beat very good teams so far this year.
It's very important we give review good counsel as then only then can it be appreciated the challenge midelton have. If there beaten there's no shame in it to loose to a great team but if they win it shows the huge value by beating an excellent team.0 -
Black water V W limerick is on in Charleville. Doon V AG is in mallow. Castletroy V Colmans is in Ballyagran
Some Schools are really doing outstanding work. Charleville CBS got to harty cup final few yrs ago with less numbers than are currently in school.I remember reading at the time that Ard Scoil ris ( with Dowling, Hannon etc) had nearly 1000 pupils and Charleville had 250. Mallow for a big town are an example of a town where schools hurling is neglected. At the end of the day the schools with the lrger no. of pupils have a massive advantage.
absolutely the larger the pick the better
In my experience it's down to the ethos of the school - if the Principal isn't engaged or interested it's an uphill battle for the coaches - and let's be honest if the coaches aren't up to the mark, it doesn't matter how much talent or numbers you have - you gotta have the sideline to get silverware0 -
Best of luck to Valley Rovers tomorrow in Munster final against Ardfert. would be great to have back to back champions from Cork after Clyda last year0
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zetecescort wrote: »Best of luck to Valley Rovers tomorrow in Munster final against Ardfert. would be great to have back to back champions from Cork after Clyda last year
Hopefully they win and fiactacha lynch deserves recall to the cork set up as a Midfield option
Not a forward but showed real potential as a ball winner
Only twenty seven worth a look he was never a scoring forward
He'd be better than Kevin canty who is not at the elite level senior intercounty imo0 -
spot with the overage players, If you have seen a lot of the premier then would you be of the opinion that there are players on the city premier one teams that merit an opportunity at minor level and are not getting a look in for whatever reason.
7th I am of opinion that minors and dev squads are notoriously political - if your club/division hasn't selectors/ mentors involved your lads will be overlooked if 50/50 with lads from the clubs divisions of the people in charge
Minor isn't as transparent as 21s / Senior so you can get away with it
I'm not saying its sinister or underhand it's just the nature of it, and always has been. Its not so much a bias, just looking after your own
my view is Eddie Gunning of Piarsaigh and o Halloran of Blackrock fell prey to it last year, and Gunning was knocking on door the previous year as well but didn't get a championship run
I think on balance - these days - the minor squads of 24 + do tend to have the best available but when it comes to picking the team and making changes on the day 'loyalties' click in0 -
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Breadandbutter wrote: »7th I am of opinion that minors and dev squads are notoriously political - if your club/division hasn't selectors/ mentors involved your lads will be overlooked if 50/50 with lads from the clubs divisions of the people in charge
Minor isn't as transparent as 21s / Senior so you can get away with it
I'm not saying its sinister or underhand it's just the nature of it, and always has been. Its not so much a bias, just looking after your own
my view is Eddie Gunning of Piarsaigh and o Halloran of Blackrock fell prey to it last year, and Gunning was knocking on door the previous year as well but didn't get a championship run
I think on balance - these days - the minor squads of 24 + do tend to have the best available but when it comes to picking the team and making changes on the day 'loyalties' click in
You still fail to get it GUNNING WAS INJURED AND MISSED KEY GAMES IN PREPARATION FOR THE LIMERICK game
As for halloran who again would you have dropped
You still haven't answered who he should have started ahead of
Remember cork now we're playing to a particular system last year
You say nothing underhand went on and claim it's not bias yet you say it's looking after your own and loyaltys kick in
Do you realise with respect you just contradicted yourself in that statement
Which is it now
It's either black or white it can't be both0 -
To bring some realistic assessment to this still going on gunning and halloran debate they got apparently wrongfully treated in team selection treated let's look at the scenario
Gunning had a knee injury and yes while he was available to senior na piarssigh close to the game and cork minors challenge close to game he missed key prepartion in lead up to game as a whole so it's was a close decision and also o brien and walsh were undroppable based on current form and Bourke like wise
If there's any hint of club bias or let's reword it as loyalties why in God's name did gunning start v kerry
Simple really he was a vital part of this management plans but got injured after the kerry game
Quite interesting how some choose not to mention this
Also he'd brother dan just sixteen has been called up to minor trials and Could start
Now there is no club bias here is there
Course not gunning Could start as he's good enough deserves to start
Eddie would have too but imo injury curtailed him
Eddie will be starter for u21 in future and senior na piarsigh next year on top last year
Two gunning are magnificent hurlers no doubt
David doolin a sub a city player with glen had superb game and senior season with glen nominated club player team year reardens so excellent example ring and landers making a choice on him before he had great season and certainly no non loyalty against city players
Now of six forwards started cork,five in kingston, lee,casey kinery, meade were all performing excellently in the harty cup the nearest think to minor as rock even said so is it not plausible that halloran wasn't picked on the basis these five had top performers consistently in the harty cup?????
Yes lad's can play if not playing harty cup but in very close calls I'd say harty cup is the differential characteristic that is the key variable in the equation
Now the one guy who didn't play harty Sean Hayes had in fact been outstanding for mallow minors and avondu senior county championship absolutely brilliant v glynn senior ucc full back from kilkenny
It came down to a pick between Hayes imo halloran and kinery
Halloran was going to loose out
This year halloran will start and munster b competition with old christians is helping he's cause
Is club loyalty Still evident
No halloran just simply was not the best option last year but is this year nothing more nothing less
Casey was always going to start as he's different players than halloran and there to play not as out out forward but a deeper role
These calls had justifying reason within them
If some one can show otherwise please do so I'll happily debate the point as imo this perception of bias or loyalties by management or looking after their own is just incorrect when you look at the fact
Any Fermoy lad's on the panel and just one Killeagh lad starting, hardly looking after their own as ring is coach Fermoy landers a killeagh man
Two na piarssigh on panel two rockies men started more than most0 -
Lads, any one at Lord Mayors Cup this evening ?
Any reports on how it went ?0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »You still fail to get it GUNNING WAS INJURED AND MISSED KEY GAMES IN PREPARATION FOR THE LIMERICK game
I've already told him this, he chooses just to ignore it.
Basically he is accusing Landers/Ring of picking certain players over other ones based on their clubs. This is an incredible accusation, and I would like to see him justify it. He won't though.0 -
I've already told him this, he chooses just to ignore it.
Basically he is accusing Landers/Ring of picking certain players over other ones based on their clubs. This is an incredible accusation, and I would like to see him justify it. He won't though.
I would totally agree
Unbelievable when genuine ring doesn't do such nonense if you look at he's record
And as I said gunning started prior to injury v kerry0 -
I've already told him this, he chooses just to ignore it.
Basically he is accusing Landers/Ring of picking certain players over other ones based on their clubs. This is an incredible accusation, and I would like to see him justify it. He won't though.
This is flogging a dead horse it's my last comment on it
I wouldn't read too much into the team for Kerry game given it was a game we were always going to win - apologies to Kerry - personally I thought that day they were givingthe kids on the age (1996) an opportunity
gunning was asked to prove his fitness prior to the Limerick game - which he did coming through a challenge and played well putting himself back in contention but he was overlooked
On the day Michael O Halloran didn't start, fair enough, I think he should have been brought on when we had forwards who weren't performing on the day
Ye can shout all ye like, that's my view I'm sticking to it
Repeating your own opinion over and over again does not actually make it' fact, it just means it's your own opinion, repeated over and over again0 -
Breadandbutter wrote: »
Ye can shout all ye like, that's my view I'm sticking to it
Repeating your own opinion over and over again does not actually make it' fact, it just means it's your own opinion, repeated over and over again
Yeah keep sticking to the character assassinations. You have nothing whatsoever to back up your attacks on Ring/Landers other than some hunch on your part.
Unless you have some kind of proof more than 'this lad wasn't picked this day and this lad wasn't picked that day' to back up your attacks on them you are better off staying quiet, they have been doing a huge amount of good work for Cork GAA for years and don't need random lads insulting their character on the net with zero proof.0 -
Yeah keep sticking to the character assassinations. You have nothing whatsoever to back up your attacks on Ring/Landers other than some hunch on your part.
Unless you have some kind of proof more than 'this lad wasn't picked this day and this lad wasn't picked that day' to back up your attacks on them you are better off staying quiet, they have been doing a huge amount of good work for Cork GAA for years and don't need random lads insulting their character on the net with zero proof.
ah relax will ya
My point in general is minor and underage squads are political and that too many mistakes and botches have been made particularly in recent years hampering our progress
I'm criticising Landers and Ring in this instance but Clearly I want them to succeed going forward0 -
Valley Rovers 1-10 Ardfert 1-12 FT
Midleton v Good Counsel gone to extra time, 0-15 each at FT0 -
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Good Counsel 0-22 Midleton 0-15 AET0
This discussion has been closed.
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