Cork GAA Discussion Thread

N20

danganabu wrote: »

There are 5 Kildangan minors starting for Nenagh CBS and one or two more on the panel.

This isn't really the thread for this but it should be noted that a lot of the info on Premierview is incorrect, I don't post there, as there is zero moderation and its basically run by a few school ground bully's, but I do ocassionally read the threads. The fact is that St Mary's looked for the minor match to be played this weekend and not Kildangan, I was at the county board meeting and saw the email myself from the Mary's secetary.

Thanks for that - I suspect a lot of forums the same

N20

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Do you think there is any quick fix to the solution?

None unfortunately

Clonmel HS had handy enough winover Rochestown today but no idea if they had their full team or not
Losses for Rochestown, Chriost Ri, Maccroom
Ballincolig beat Fachtnas
Clonakilty won handy enough
But a mixed bag overall

Clonakilty will def progress unfortunately most likely at expense of Ballincollig unless Facthnas can beat Mercy Mounthawk
Rochestown should come out of their group with Clonmel
Chriost Ri will have to slog it out with Dingle for 2nd spot in their group with Rathmore well on top there
Brendans and prob Col Na Sceilge from their group

Clonakilty seem a serious team this year - maybe our best option ?
Rochestown bubble has burst a bit probably suffering trying to compete in both competitions and under pressur as per hah above

N20

Orizio wrote: »

Macroom being well beaten as well, Charleville hammering A.G.

That one finished up Charleville 1 15 AG 15
Keeps Charlevilles hopes of qualifying very much alive

And ASR won Dean Ryan handy no doubt bolstering up their Harty ambition

Surprised to see one of the Boylans still u/16.5
Good propsect for Ard Scoil and Limerick going forward

Orizio

Corn Shéamais Uí Dhonnchú (16.5 B H) S/F

CBC Cork 3-09 St Caimins Shannon 0-07

thinkstoomuch1

Orizio wrote: »

Macroom being well beaten as well, Charleville hammering A.G.

To be fair they were not hammered at all but ag lost by three points and the game was game two halves so it's premature to say there being hammered when they played against the wind for a half to be fair, and Collins made outstanding save and himself like Barry deserve huge credit for playing second game in four days after Saturday intermediate league final
You would expect players playing in step above school at club when they go back to school level to perform and they did performance well as indeed did the limerick lads with charville particularly at half back line
Tough game in sense for cork in one cork team had to loose and unfortunately ag are almost out as yes could and should beat Youghal but I doubt beat temple more and even if so after loosing two games now at best there on two wins and need results go there way and I feel for them with gunning aherne Hanafin morrisey,Liam coughlan sheehan who was playing senior with glen this year on the panel etc they have excellent talent but I can't help but feel and I raised the point last week that better side line would get more out of that team.

One example was morrisey on player of Jack Barry quality and expirence in Barry played in intermediate surely while morrisey is good Liam coughlan would been better on him
Also gunning before went off i felt as I said last week much better closer to goal and should been forward
One of the best forwards in minor even at intercounty I don't see the logic playing him out the field far from goal
Sheehan was causing charville problems, gunning would have been ideal as a forward Also as would been tough to mark both and some one else should played midfield


Ag even though there young with lot available next year have the talent but it's probably better for cork in harty with charville going though with rochestown as charville look better coached
It's been some year for charville in intermediate league and championship and now school having chance progress in the harty cup.



Charville were very good and herr Guiney, geary, griffin, Barry, loughlin have excellent player to lead with Collins and are well coached and lot these lads won white cup two years ago with few cork development and limerick development players with indeed limerick minor and Cork minor on the team
Not qualified yet as Rochestown will be key key game and that's huge ask but charville will be competitive
Kingston may not be available for Rochestown so gives them a chance but Powter has to be marked by Paddy o loughlin
Last year charville allowed Kingston go in full forward and loughlin never followed him
If they have a full panel to pick from This time loughlin has to go with him or else put Guiney on Powter who has played full for club and corner and yes can play midfield he's idea man to man mark
Going man for man with rochestown won't work as they play two men inside but charville showerd can play a system also
Ideal world charville beat rochestown on the second of December and then Rochestown beat temple more and both go through as charville have won one game lost one but should beat Youghal so the rochestown game is key.
Hopefully ag will still put it up to Templemore as would help cork team if they were beaten but I can't see them beating the Tipp school who have good player from dean Ryan cup side that pushed midelton all the way in the past

On a side note but of importance to cork seen as cork minor play waterford dls beaten well by ard scoil according to reports and looks like midelton gave closer battle in there semi final going by the score
I think waterford school hurling while it was outstanding when won two magnificent all ireland in row years ago isn't as strong now and I expect the harty to also show cork are stronger than waterford at school which means imo cork should beating them in minor
Looking at the ard scoil team in twelve lads from limerick started showed how limerick under age is still remarkably strong and with Kinnerk coaching lot these at under seventeen etc next year the talent is in limerick and proves cork can't take foot of the gas
Limerick had awful under age results in development squads this year but that imo was more down to coaching since Wallace left dropping standard but Kinnerk joining means limerick credit due acted fast and will be strong producing hurlers
Dean Ryan cup is tough competition to win
Limerick don't have imo great coach in minor in daly in he is a better manager than coach but id say he probably won't be there if minor performance is poor next year and a good combination would be daly manager and Kinnerk as coach, and Cork have to look at ard scoil success as timely reminder no room for let up ard scoil are very much around and aren't going away fast and with thurles doing excellent cork have to maintain standard at under age to stay with limerick and tippeary teams
Take the eye of the ball even for moment and we fall behind.
Good progress made last two years at school but lot still to do.
A mixed day in the football by all accounts.
Fair play to rochestown for making a huge come-back yes fell short but by all accounts showed real pride in the jersey to come back.
A great sporting school.
Stephen leonard apparently got goal and seven or something like that today for he's team in the corn Mhuiri.
A brilliant magnificent interview in the southern star also by tomas o se when he said cork need forget winning league but set goals develop and too much taken out league but he fully justified he's criticism cuthbhertt and previous management and stands by it and says players are in cork compete anyone on there day but management must deliver and past management didn't but up new management to lead and get big lads stand up and bring consistently to the game
What a superb player, superb warrior and sublime pundit and great potential coach future after doing great ucc freshers
Himself and nemo well matched in both are winners.
They just don't want to play for the jersey and turn up they want to win for the jersey and there's a huge difference in the concept.

thinkstoomuch1

Orizio wrote: »

Corn Shéamais Uí Dhonnchú (16.5 B H) S/F

CBC Cork 3-09 St Caimins Shannon 0-07

Combined with harty and past year munster b senior finalist cbc especially under Bishopton donal o mahony deserves huge credit for the change in hurling there
Of course he learned a lot at franferris under the legend the canon rip

thinkstoomuch1

N20 wrote: »

That one finished up Charleville 1 15 AG 15
Keeps Charlevilles hopes of qualifying very much alive

And ASR won Dean Ryan handy no doubt bolstering up their Harty ambition

Surprised to see one of the Boylans still u/16.5
Good propsect for Ard Scoil and Limerick going forward

Ard scoil are some schools in fairness to them
Got to respect the culture of success they build

Ard scoil really wanted this year dean Ryan cup i think first since 08 of dowling time when first school do ice baths video assessment etc
Boylan are all excellent and son former midelton hurling man limerick doctor dave
You asked me before about mickey mackry
Not totally sure but I think he's injured
Very sad to hear any young player injured
Colin Ryan limerick out for while due to injury
Eugene o leary out injured also for a long while due to injury in another sport
I wish both full and speedy recovery and both are fine hurlers

commonsense.

N20 wrote: »

That one finished up Charleville 1 15 AG 15
Keeps Charlevilles hopes of qualifying very much alive

And ASR won Dean Ryan handy no doubt bolstering up their Harty ambition

Surprised to see one of the Boylans still u/16.5
Good propsect for Ard Scoil and Limerick going forward

ASR has become a bit of a hurling academy in recent years with hurlers travelling beyond their local secondary school in order to play hurling with them. A lot like St Kierans College.
With a bigger % of the counties better hurlers converging on the school the likelyhood of ASR being successful increases significantly as evidenced by results in recent years. It's a weight of numbers thing as much as anything else with a disproportionate number of the counties better hurlers concentrated in one school.
Fair play to Ard Scoil for achieving this - they set out their stall about 10 years when one of their key initiatives to attract hurlers was to arrange hurling blitzes for primary schools near and (crucially) far.

thinkstoomuch1

commonsense. wrote: »

ASR has become a bit of a hurling academy in recent years with hurlers travelling beyond their local secondary school in order to play hurling with them. A lot like St Kierans College.
With a bigger % of the counties better hurlers converging on the school the likelyhood of ASR being successful increases significantly as evidenced by results in recent years. It's a weight of numbers thing as much as anything else with a disproportionate number of the counties better hurlers concentrated in one school.
Fair play to Ard Scoil for achieving this - they set out their stall about 10 years when one of their key initiatives to attract hurlers was to arrange hurling blitzes for primary schools near and (crucially) far.

I would agree with parts of that but it's not just a weight of numbers in numbers mean nothing with out a long term innovative sustainable visionary plan for the future in we have seen clubs like Ballincollig, glen, Douglas, charville who always had numbers for there club teams but never delivered before but have now all because coaching was developed and improved across the board

Ard scoil was not just numbers coming in going to play and it happened it was Derek Larkin from offaly with team yesterday coming in twenty five years ago with a vision and he brought in good coaching in ex limerick coach natal o grady, Tom hennesy, jimmy Browne form clare and lit fame a top hurling man, cork man Fergal lyons and Liam Cronin who involved yesterday as of course the next generation coaching modern school level the outstanding simply outstanding niall moran at harty cup level
They brought in players from other club but coaching helped make players better as loads example like midelton cbs huge huge pick clubs not delivering as poor coaching at times
Ag have hugely talented players from na Piarsaigh and glen last few years but coaching is letting them down
Donal og grady who does back room stuff last year should be main coach
Cbc are now getting numbers also from midelton glen na Piarsaigh north cork even and eirns own but key is coaching and leadership of donal o mahony is mixing talent and coaching
Success needs both imo but more so coaching as coaching can always improve players to a degree
Franferris had huge number in the day from its time but was dominated as excellent canon o brien


Ard scoil some view ah they have huge pick it's unfair etc etc i don't begrudge them one bit in were munster rubgy school etc but changed there cultural to hurling also by the will of the people and hard work and yes lot players go there but bottom line is really makes no difference what limerick school dominated harty etc once it is limerick school and fact eleven players yesterday limerick players means limerick hurling is the winner as go ard scoil hurling is treated seriously and better some go there and develop than go to other schools don't take hurling seriously and players not develop as teams badly coached and beaten early in competition


For years unfortunately colmans cork had similar reputation but be fair colmans least won harty cup dean Ryan and all ireland and no surprise when they dominated cork minor hurling was strong

Thankfully colmans are coming strong again but charville rochestown are all coming with cbc definitely imo going to win a harty within five years and midelton and ag have the players but sort there coaching and can be strong and there's enough players in cork for few cork school to challenge every year
I have huge time for ard scoil and indeed any team or any grade takes there sport seriously
Limerick hurling are lucky to have them and indeed clare hurling also.
And as you said with a great example Kierans in Kilkenny who are a real credit to kk hurling also

Orizio

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

To be fair they were not hammered at all but ag lost by three points and the game was game two halves so it's premature to say there being hammered when they played against the wind for a half to be fair,

...at the time I posted it they were being hammered. I posted that at half-time, not full-time.

thinkstoomuch1

Fair point then but at the same time you probably see my point that in games yesterday conditions where wind would always favour one team more in a half of play it was game two halves so no team were hammered to be fair in both played the conditions
Ag dominated the second half as they had the wind
The game was a game of two halves so one had to do more with the condition
Imo more so lot young lads not senior but young hurlers with ag playing to say they were hammered in ist half when conditions were tough imo is a bit harsh
That's the point I was making.

leaf123

The match report on rochestown game said Shane Kingston played at half which is very good news for rochestown however I was told today Sean Powther limped off any truth ?

N20

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I would agree with parts of that but it's not just a weight of numbers in numbers mean nothing with out a long term innovative sustainable visionary plan for the future in we have seen clubs like Ballincollig, glen, Douglas, charville who always had numbers for there club teams but never delivered before but have now all because coaching was developed and improved across the board

Ard scoil was not just numbers coming in going to play and it happened it was Derek Larkin from offaly with team yesterday coming in twenty five years ago with a vision and he brought in good coaching in ex limerick coach natal o grady, Tom hennesy, jimmy Browne form clare and lit fame a top hurling man, cork man Fergal lyons and Liam Cronin who involved yesterday as of course the next generation coaching modern school level the outstanding simply outstanding niall moran at harty cup level
They brought in players from other club but coaching helped make players better as loads example like midelton cbs huge huge pick clubs not delivering as poor coaching at times
Ag have hugely talented players from na Piarsaigh and glen last few years but coaching is letting them down
Donal og grady who does back room stuff last year should be main coach
Cbc are now getting numbers also from midelton glen na Piarsaigh north cork even and eirns own but key is coaching and leadership of donal o mahony is mixing talent and coaching
Success needs both imo but more so coaching as coaching can always improve players to a degree
Franferris had huge number in the day from its time but was dominated as excellent canon o brien


Ard scoil some view ah they have huge pick it's unfair etc etc i don't begrudge them one bit in were munster rubgy school etc but changed there cultural to hurling also by the will of the people and hard work and yes lot players go there but bottom line is really makes no difference what limerick school dominated harty etc once it is limerick school and fact eleven players yesterday limerick players means limerick hurling is the winner as go ard scoil hurling is treated seriously and better some go there and develop than go to other schools don't take hurling seriously and players not develop as teams badly coached and beaten early in competition


For years unfortunately colmans cork had similar reputation but be fair colmans least won harty cup dean Ryan and all ireland and no surprise when they dominated cork minor hurling was strong

Thankfully colmans are coming strong again but charville rochestown are all coming with cbc definitely imo going to win a harty within five years and midelton and ag have the players but sort there coaching and can be strong and there's enough players in cork for few cork school to challenge every year
I have huge time for ard scoil and indeed any team or any grade takes there sport seriously
Limerick hurling are lucky to have them and indeed clare hurling also.
And as you said with a great example Kierans in Kilkenny who are a real credit to kk hurling also

TTM its absolutely down to the weight of numbers, but your right in that its not down to the pick from their catchment area

The issue/ reason is ASR have a policy of actively encouraging the cream of hurling from multiple clubs across Limerick city and county and Clare,

I have some knowledge of the Limerick Clubs and ASR usually have a core group from Na Piarsaigh ( most successful underage club in Limerick last few years which has spearheaded the ASR success ) but the teamsheet includes

Claughan, Limerick City
Old Christians Limerick City
South Liberties Co Limerick
Adare Co Limerick
Patrickswell Co Limerick
Ballybrown Co Limerick
Mungret Co Limerick
Meelick Co Clare
Clonlara Co Clare
Cratloe Co Clare
Sixmilebridge Co Clare
o Callaghan's Mills Co Clare
Parteen Co Clare,

And Also
Newport Co Tipp

no other school that i know of in Munster has this incredible pool of talent the bulk of whom the last few years are inter county minors

Imagine if kids from Na Piarsiagh,Blackrock, Sars, Erins Own, Douglas were travelling out to Midleton combined with all their clubs from East Cork

In fairness Niall Moran would be some dope if he couldnt be succesfull with the creme de la creme of clubs from up to a 25 k radius - I could nearly manage them myself ����

This is apolicy they have pursued and it has reaped huge rewards for them. I have a degree of u nease about it myself as it makes almost impossible to compete with.

of late the relative success of Castletroy College has meant that fewer hurlers from that side of the city have made the journey to ASR - having said that I reckon its about 27 k to Ennis rd from Newport Co Tipp so not everyone is staying local.

Their prowess may be on a slight wane as evidenced by their semi final exit last year to Rochestown but clearly the Dean Ryan win implies there is another wave on the way.

With regard to 'regular' schools i think it can be very cyclical, strong for a few years and then wane again before a revival - unless you employ the ASR policy as above.



You mentioned Colin Ryan is injured? Do you mean the lad who played with Doon? Shur he cant be playing Harty, Hes left school and well overage ???? Im fairly sure about that. Mickey Mackey not having much joy with injuries but I would have thought he was overage as well.

N20

leaf123 wrote: »

The match report on rochestown game said Shane Kingston played at half which is very good news for rochestown however I was told today Sean Powther limped off any truth ?

Rumblings alright that Rochestown struggling with injuries and certainly last few football games have been flat performances

IF and its a big IF, they have a full pick and they are up for it, and prepared properly they would be the team to beat in either Harty or Cirn UiMhuiri

commonsense.

N20 wrote: »

TTM its absolutely down to the weight of numbers, but your right in that its not down to the pick from their catchment area

The issue/ reason is ASR have a policy of actively encouraging the cream of hurling from multiple clubs across Limerick city and county and Clare,

I have some knowledge of the Limerick Clubs and ASR usually have a core group from Na Piarsaigh ( most successful underage club in Limerick last few years which has spearheaded the ASR success ) but the teamsheet includes

Claughan, Limerick City
Old Christians Limerick City
South Liberties Co Limerick
Adare Co Limerick
Patrickswell Co Limerick
Ballybrown Co Limerick
Mungret Co Limerick
Meelick Co Clare
Clonlara Co Clare
Cratloe Co Clare
Sixmilebridge Co Clare
o Callaghan's Mills Co Clare
Parteen Co Clare,

And Also
Newport Co Tipp

no other school that i know of in Munster has this incredible pool of talent the bulk of whom the last few years are inter county minors

Imagine if kids from Na Piarsiagh,Blackrock, Sars, Erins Own, Douglas were travelling out to Midleton combined with all their clubs from East Cork

In fairness Niall Moran would be some dope if he couldnt be succesfull with the creme de la creme of clubs from up to a 25 k radius - I could nearly manage them myself ����

This is apolicy they have pursued and it has reaped huge rewards for them. I have a degree of u nease about it myself as it makes almost impossible to compete with.

of late the relative success of Castletroy College has meant that fewer hurlers from that side of the city have made the journey to ASR - having said that I reckon its about 27 k to Ennis rd from Newport Co Tipp so not everyone is staying local.

Their prowess may be on a slight wane as evidenced by their semi final exit last year to Rochestown but clearly the Dean Ryan win implies there is another wave on the way.

With regard to 'regular' schools i think it can be very cyclical, strong for a few years and then wane again before a revival - unless you employ the ASR policy as above.

Outstanding post.
Open and shut case based on that irrefutable evidence. Nothing more to see here - move along.

As an aside I don't think ASR are quite as strong this year as previous years. Definitely contenders but capable of being beaten.
Rochestown obviously in the mix with a good chance but Templemore are strong this year. I expect both of them to make the q/finals with Rochestown topping the group.
I think the only other possible Cork contender in the business end of the competition (semi final/final) is Midleton if they get it right.

thinkstoomuch1

I agree that Weight numbers definitely help it's logic in that and I don't dispute that but not just niall moran or crowe turning up and taking team to the games and say play when lot lot more to it like ice baths pre post nutrition, recovery video assessment, ist to bring in school sweeper at harty cup back in mid 2000s that all came from the mid decade and all came from coaching and moran was part coaching that facilitied it
Last year midelton for example beaten by Hamilton and nenagh and with respect both should not beaten by them at all at all and just like ard scoil midelton huge pick clubs from Carrig, fr o Neill, aghada, Russell rovers, Killeagh, Cloyne and more importantly midelton itself huge pick such so even midelton players are now like maloney playing cbc and Cork under seventeen past year and really could push minor place if current form harty keeps up.

Yes only seven clubs compared to the ard scoil but midelton huge huge pick and Cork players different levels like o connor smith beausang looney landers and manly even past year with winning two dean Ryan and white cup before etc haven't done more at harty but past year last year even struggled beat Clonmel by point shows coaching way way off what's required while ard scoil are not just reading team sheet there picking players best positions and development cohesive effective system suit them
Midelton is prime example and it's baffling some east cork posters well one to be fair, here can't see what stares them in the face to say it's just about weight of numbers when midelton prove clearly it's not as under performing in harty
Such views show how little do they know of the huge work behind the scenes with ard scoil and it didn't just happen over night

Harty cup as even the dean Ryan cup managers like Derek McGrath, Denis ring, brendan bolger with doon past year flangan with ard scoil in harty, Paul Kinnerk chaoimhins etc shows lot inter county correlation to school coaching now and while some in mentioned struggle with numbers point is they get farther others due to coaching while midelton as many not just me said here coaching is problem in harty for midelton and midelton even struggle win in Callaghan cup recently imo shows like last year struggling win games should not be and will loose games should not when it is not they don't have talent but it's coaching that isn't that it's poor poor just it's good to a certain level but way off top level in harty now imo

We seen it in Ballincollig before they won the football, we're poorly coached and suffered big town syndrome as dwyer once said in the echo but now there winning at club just like charville etc
Newtownshandrum has a population of small content to others approx and clubs like milford dromina free  charville and ballyhea surrounded it but it won three munster and an all ireland and won four counties and contested another all ireland final all because good coaching develop players from under age right up from intermediate etc

Ard scoil have numbers no doubt but it's the will of the coaches and innovation also that helps as just not quantity but quality who coaches them
Kierans had loads coaches like an example in mccormack who's good and good counsel Wexford been successful due to declan wall a kk development coach and who had huge success with mullvinat also
You could a put poor coach in to ard scoil and you would be surprised how fast things could unravel quickly.

Colin Ryan not harty this year but limerick under twenty one but seen as mentioned him  o leary who i also mentioned who unfortunately injured also is not harty cup either but as talking about injury mentioned Ryan. Also
Mackey thought was harty cup but maybe not if you say so
Ryan is the half forward the ball winner and is an excellent hurler and will be loss to limerick under twenty one but must still have at least eight or nine from last year team involved this year and will be huge ask for cork but maybe at home and ist game may help but waterford was same last year beat Cork handy but cork should if managed correctly be competitive this year you would hope.
Cbc in cork over time could be cork equivalent of ard scoil getting  players from many different clubs and doing both rubgy and hurling successful. Just like ard scoil began it all with a dean Ryan cup cbc are starting it with the munster b last year but even under sixteen are doing well also
Success won't happen over night but a clear start has been made there and just like Derek Larkin in he's twenty five years or so had huge coaching impact in ard scoil donal o mahony is starting to do well with cbc also.
If ard scoil had midelton management and vice versa I think you would have too different teams.

As for unease about ard scoil I can understand fair enough the pick gives them and advantage but at the end of the day limerick hurling has won with dean Ryan cup having around eleven starters all limerick men so those lads are winning

N20

commonsense. wrote: »

Outstanding post.
Open and shut case based on that irrefutable evidence. Nothing more to see here - move along.

As an aside I don't think ASR are quite as strong this year as previous years. Definitely contenders but capable of being beaten.
Rochestown obviously in the mix with a good chance but Templemore are strong this year. I expect both of them to make the q/finals with Rochestown topping the group.
I think the only other possible Cork contender in the business end of the competition (semi final/final) is Midleton if they get it right.

Whoaaaa! Youve moved at pace there CS

We can only dream of finals / semi finals yet - there is A LOT OF HURLING TO BE DONE before we get to that stage

Im not discounting Templemore at all, they are highly rated by anyone Ive spoken too and have their homework done too as they have been down to see some of the early games

DLS will push Midleton all the way and I just hope Midleton get their house in order.

Nenagh and Colmans maybe from their group although Thurles have recent history on their side

I wouldnt be surprised if Christians qualify from Group D with Castletroy College

The draw will the decide what 1st place teams play second placed

Of course all of this is pure speculation and opinion no team is through as yet

Certainly ASR have all the advantages but we will have to see how it plays out
Given the hurlers through their doors last few years it could be argued they have actually underachieved in not winning a Croke Cup, esp in 2014 with a galaxy of stars in their ranks

Some relations of mine where students in ASR last few years and there is no doubt it is a very professionally run school, business like and witha very driven principal so you have to admire them for that but its certainly not the spirit of ' the pride of the little village ' which is so unique to GAA - more a premiership feel to it, which to me in any case has less appeal

commonsense.

N20 wrote: »

Whoaaaa! Youve moved at pace there CS

We can only dream of finals / semi finals yet - there is A LOT OF HURLING TO BE DONE before we get to that stage

Im not discounting Templemore at all, they are highly rated by anyone Ive spoken too and have their homework done too as they have been down to see some of the early games

DLS will push Midleton all the way and I just hope Midleton get their house in order.

Nenagh and Colmans maybe from their group although Thurles have recent history on their side

I wouldnt be surprised if Christians qualify from Group D with Castletroy College

The draw will the decide what 1st place teams play second placed

Of course all of this is pure speculation and opinion no team is through as yet

Certainly ASR have all the advantages but we will have to see how it plays out
Given the hurlers through their doors last few years it could be argued they have actually underachieved in not winning a Croke Cup, esp in 2014 with a galaxy of stars in their ranks.

Ah I agree with you, there's a huge amount of hurling to be done. But just for the fun of it I'm giving my long term prediction and I reckon that the winner will come from Rochestown/ASR/Templemore.

Agree with you, ASR should have a least 1 Croke cup in the bag to back up their 3 Hartys.

Have to go now - in a rush to get to the bookies!!

thinkstoomuch1

N20 wrote: »

Whoaaaa! Youve moved at pace there CS

We can only dream of finals / semi finals yet - there is A LOT OF HURLING TO BE DONE before we get to that stage

Im not discounting Templemore at all, they are highly rated by anyone Ive spoken too and have their homework done too as they have been down to see some of the early games

DLS will push Midleton all the way and I just hope Midleton get their house in order.

Nenagh and Colmans maybe from their group although Thurles have recent history on their side

I wouldnt be surprised if Christians qualify from Group D with Castletroy College

The draw will the decide what 1st place teams play second placed

Of course all of this is pure speculation and opinion no team is through as yet

Certainly ASR have all the advantages but we will have to see how it plays out
Given the hurlers through their doors last few years it could be argued they have actually underachieved in not winning a Croke Cup, esp in 2014 with a galaxy of stars in their ranks

Some relations of mine where students in ASR last few years and there is no doubt it is a very professionally run school, business like and witha very driven principal so you have to admire them for that but its certainly not the spirit of ' the pride of the little village ' which is so unique to GAA - more a premiership feel to it, which to me in any case has less appeal

Very valid point you raise in ard scoil never won croke cup and while beaten twice by Kierans who have been in past four out of six final with Kilkenny cbs beaten other two while Kilkenny hurling is extremely strong since waterford were dominate with three excellent wins that was great for the competition the fact is its reasonable as you say to say ard scoil will always have all ireland croke cup there as won didn't win and while dominated munster in all ireland never pushed on
They badly want it and tbh I wouldn't mind them winning it over kk school to break the dominance

Yes your right the play for the parish and pride of club isn't same in ard scoil to a degree but I think while you would want it to be different there's no doubt ard scoil helped limerick hurling and na Piarsaigh who had success and end justified means in limerick hurling does benefit from it but yes clare also has

Dls had almangate to win croke cup which was great for waterford so once county benefits imo is what counts

Cbc have great chance and could qualify but Cork would do well if it was cbc midelton charville and Rochestown in four teams could really hold there own in quarter final but as you say a huge if surrounding midelton as we're not great Callaghan cup last week either
They definitely have the players imo there

zetecescort

Blackrock winning the u-21 handy, leading 1-20 to 0-7 after 50 min

lim4ev

Enjoying the discussion as always thanks for the info from all of you.as a limerick man delighted asr won the dean ryan it's true they have a huge pick but I,d have thought some of the big schools all over Munster though maybe not having the same pick as asr would have big numbers to choose from.in fairness to asr the biggest contingent would be from na piarsigh which is good for limk hurling.remember limk city is a small enough city.it also has to be said that that pick was always there and I,m totally in agreement with ttm it takes more than just numbers to be successful.

commonsense.

lim4ev wrote:

it takes more than just numbers to be successful.

We're all in agreement on that point. But you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. You have to have the raw material to begin with and fair play to Ard Scoil, they have an abundance.

Orizio

lim4ev wrote: »

Enjoying the discussion as always thanks for the info from all of you.as a limerick man delighted asr won the dean ryan it's true they have a huge pick but I,d have thought some of the big schools all over Munster though maybe not having the same pick as asr would have big numbers to choose from.in fairness to asr the biggest contingent would be from na piarsigh which is good for limk hurling.remember limk city is a small enough city.it also has to be said that that pick was always there and I,m totally in agreement with ttm it takes more than just numbers to be successful.

ASR draw from the most clubs in the Harty, although the likes of Thurles wouldn't be far off either.

Cork schools are at a pretty big disadvantage. Midleton draw from maybe 6-7 - at they are losing players always - and they have the biggest 'pick' by some distance in Cork schools hurling.

Youghal draw a handful from Waterford clubs, some from Killeagh and some from Fr. O'Neills, along with Youghal itself, who despite being senior are usually rubbish underage. A.G. have Na Piarsaigh lads, and the odd few from the Glen, maybe a couple from St. Vincents. Hard to be competitive, nevermind win Hartys, with such poor numbers. Colmans, Hamilton, Charleville and Roco are a bit better but still not comparable to Midleton, nevermind the Limerick and Tipp schools.

The one spanner in the works is CBC, who are able to hand out scholarships. We'll see how long that lasts and what effect it will have.

thinkstoomuch1

lim4ev wrote: »

Enjoying the discussion as always thanks for the info from all of you.as a limerick man delighted asr won the dean ryan it's true they have a huge pick but I,d have thought some of the big schools all over Munster though maybe not having the same pick as asr would have big numbers to choose from.in fairness to asr the biggest contingent would be from na piarsigh which is good for limk hurling.remember limk city is a small enough city.it also has to be said that that pick was always there and I,m totally in agreement with ttm it takes more than just numbers to be successful.

An outstanding post and great to and fair play to one poster who has some what mellowed in he's view where yesterday he was trying to close shop on this debate by saying irrefutable evidence for he's point the topic is closed move along
The bottom line is there's no doubt numbers give ard scoil advantage but likes midelton and colmans and Rochestown proved last year once they get coaching right in time they can challenge ard scoil no doubt
Orizio explain it well but midelton should be winning more
Ard scoil deserve credit in yes all ingredients were there to make a cake but they still had to put the icing on it and they did to be fair.

N20

Orizio wrote: »

ASR draw from the most clubs in the Harty, although the likes of Thurles wouldn't be far off either.

Cork schools are at a pretty big disadvantage. Midleton draw from maybe 6-7 - at they are losing players always - and they have the biggest 'pick' by some distance in Cork schools hurling.

Youghal draw a handful from Waterford clubs, some from Killeagh and some from Fr. O'Neills, along with Youghal itself, who despite being senior are usually rubbish underage. A.G. have Na Piarsaigh lads, and the odd few from the Glen, maybe a couple from St. Vincents. Hard to be competitive, nevermind win Hartys, with such poor numbers. Colmans, Hamilton, Charleville and Roco are a bit better but still not comparable to Midleton, nevermind the Limerick and Tipp schools.

The one spanner in the works is CBC, who are able to hand out scholarships. We'll see how long that lasts and what effect it will have.

A fair summation Orizio, unfortunately the cork situation is compounded by the neglect of the structures by Co Board, and complete apathy towards schools - hurling schools in other counties tend to have 'hurling people' in school driving them on.

Unless you have an agressive policy - and can fund it - schools hurling tends to be very cyclical - you can hit a rich vein for a few years - Hammies last few years, Charleville previous to that, Rochestown currently, AG/ CBC coming next year or two hopefully - your either in transition or peaking, very difficult to maintain it year after year. Midleton would be the exception in Cork in terms of regular influx of talent but their lack of success well documented and bemoaned here.

Next wednesday will tell us more

N20

lim4ev wrote: »

Enjoying the discussion as always thanks for the info from all of you.as a limerick man delighted asr won the dean ryan it's true they have a huge pick but I,d have thought some of the big schools all over Munster though maybe not having the same pick as asr would have big numbers to choose from.in fairness to asr the biggest contingent would be from na piarsigh which is good for limk hurling.remember limk city is a small enough city.it also has to be said that that pick was always there and I,m totally in agreement with ttm it takes more than just numbers to be successful.

You'd wonder how they manage in Kilkenny when its really only a very large town! ( no disrespect to Kilkenny, its a beautiful - little- city)

High concentration of clubs in two schools.

I'd argue a Harty win for Castletroy or Doon would be better for Limerick hurling going forward.

Anyway it is what it is and we will see how it will pan out.

Copper_pipe

Are Dungourney expected to win today?

big_drive

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Are Dungourney expected to win today?

Having seen them in the county final replay I'd expect so. I thought they looked very high standard for junior grade. In this type of weather anything could happen but they looked strong with a good mix between fast mobile young lads and a few older lads who brought a bit of experience and physical presence

willietherock

Players/students will always travel if they know the school system is good enough to be successful. Kierans pick all over KK because players know they have a Rolls Royce structure with high probably of success. There's a bit of a chicken and egg situation in Cork where the schools aren't successful so aren't drawing in from outside the natural catchment area. The Mon would draw from a 20 mile radius in its hayday. It needs some school to take the thing by the balls and actively monitor the U12/primary school competitions and encourage the cream to go to that particular school. But that ambition doesn't exist in Cork.
Midleton CBS are the exception, they have the catchment area to be super strong in Harty most yrs

Andre 3000

http://www.corkgaa.ie/news/368723/Proposed_Championship_Format_Senior_Premier_Intermediate_Grade