Cork GAA Discussion Thread

clerk

Gary Neville wrote: »

I wouldn't be that critical of Cuthbert for last season - he got some good performances from defenders like Cadogan, Loughrey, Barry O Driscoll, Cronin, BOD etc - I think he handled KOH pretty well too.

He deserves credit for bringing in AOC and Pat Flanagan too, IMO.

..... He was appointed in preference to Cleary - an absolutely disgraceful decision - and he must take huge blame for the dual debacle which probably cost the footballers dearly.

l'd agree with you there in general. Your post is a bit more balanced about Cuthbert than the normal guff and a lot of the poor reporting in the media in general.

l wouldn't exactly say it was a "disgrace" that he got the job, he had managed the Cork minors to the All-Ireland final in '10. A team that showed unbelievable balls all season. I was talking to one them last week and he had nothing but good things to say about Cuthbert. He was also a selector under Counihan and is heavily involved in his club. However, Cleary was the popular choice and to a majority of people that l'd talk to the logical choice after his massive success over the Years with the U21s so it seemed like the next step and the deserved step for him.

Talking about the U21's people need to remember that a lot of the top players from those Years were not available to Cuthbert last Year, i.e. Walsh, Cahalane, Sheehan and Alan Cadogan. Meanwhile as far as l know Kerry have lost no players now that Tommy Walsh is back.

By the way Cleary joins a prestigious list of nominee's over looked over the Years by the CCB including Morgan and Counihan relatively recently.

The consensus was that Cuthbert was rewarded by the CCB for his great work in Cork GAA, which in Cork with a good lot of people, carries a lot of baggage. If the CCB would simply let real democracy rule it would be a great thing for Cork GAA and they won't have all this negativity directed towards them then and we can all move on. Unfortunately l think Cuthbert has had a lot of negativity pointed towards him because of the baggage associated with the selection process, which is not his fault. That is wholly unfair.

CORKDOUBLE

Clerk you have to remember that by allowing the dual players Cuthbert ended up losing Walsh and Cahalane to the hurlers that's his fault as manager he made that call to get the job... TTM Chizende Obegene is a great prospect but they are saying in Nemo that he might be going soccer a huge pity if that happens....speaking of another talent Dan Dineen did not play for Cill Na Matra in the u21 B final is he injured ??

thinkstoomuch1

clerk wrote: »

l'd agree with you there in general. Your post is a bit more balanced about Cuthbert than the normal guff and a lot of the poor reporting in the media in general.

l wouldn't exactly say it was a "disgrace" that he got the job, he had managed the Cork minors to the All-Ireland final in '10. A team that showed unbelievable balls all season. I was talking to one them last week and he had nothing but good things to say about Cuthbert. He was also a selector under Counihan and is heavily involved in his club. However, Cleary was the popular choice and to a majority of people that l'd talk to the logical choice after his massive success over the Years with the U21s so it seemed like the next step and the deserved step for him.

Talking about the U21's people need to remember that a lot of the top players from those Years were not available to Cuthbert last Year, i.e. Walsh, Cahalane, Sheehan and Alan Cadogan. Meanwhile as far as l know Kerry have lost no players now that Tommy Walsh is back.

By the way Cleary joins a prestigious list of nominee's over looked over the Years by the CCB including Morgan and Counihan relatively recently.

The consensus was that Cuthbert was rewarded by the CCB for his great work in Cork GAA, which in Cork with a good lot of people, carries a lot of baggage. If the CCB would simply let real democracy rule it would be a great thing for Cork GAA and they won't have all this negativity directed towards them then and we can all move on. Unfortunately l think Cuthbert has had a lot of negativity pointed towards him because of the baggage associated with the selection process, which is not his fault. That is wholly unfair.

Regards the minor team there was no unbelievable ball skill as you put it

In fact same problems happened minor happened in senior when minor defence was poor conceded nineteenth point to armagh five goals to Galway and still won
Cork were just attacking team and while you get away it at minor as less tactics then not at senior


In fact I suggest you look at the minor team from day one he chopped and changed it every game and rarely settled on full back of half back system

He heavily involved club means nothing
I can list hundred names involved clubs no skill set to management
What exactly did he win with Bishopton or indeed ballyclough in he's time


Your taking the biscuits in wasn't a disgrace got senior job over Cleary
It was let's not kid ourselves a down right disgraceful decision fella no proven management got job brought in Davis sexton etc no record management yet calibre clearly and English was over looked


Cahalane and Walsh left as didn't rate the set up
Sheehan was loss but we don't actually know where management would played him
Seriously like could been half back

Media were absoultey spot on what they said and no only guff in your words imo spoken is when people say he was harshly critsed


Did cork not suffer worst defeat years home to kerry to Dublin twice to Kildare ist defeat over championship 80 years
How else would you exactly describe he's management term
You do realise who country laughing at the state cork football judging by Darragh o se articles etc and to be fair who can blame them

N20

In a week of rumours - Austin Gleeson transferring to UCC next season ??
huge asset for Fitzgibbon if true
Arguably one of best hurlersin country at the moment

sean mac

clerk wrote: »

l'd agree with you there in general. Your post is a bit more balanced about Cuthbert than the normal guff and a lot of the poor reporting in the media in general.

l wouldn't exactly say it was a "disgrace" that he got the job, he had managed the Cork minors to the All-Ireland final in '10. A team that showed unbelievable balls all season. I was talking to one them last week and he had nothing but good things to say about Cuthbert. He was also a selector under Counihan and is heavily involved in his club. However, Cleary was the popular choice and to a majority of people that l'd talk to the logical choice after his massive success over the Years with the U21s so it seemed like the next step and the deserved step for him.

Talking about the U21's people need to remember that a lot of the top players from those Years were not available to Cuthbert last Year, i.e. Walsh, Cahalane, Sheehan and Alan Cadogan. Meanwhile as far as l know Kerry have lost no players now that Tommy Walsh is back.

By the way Cleary joins a prestigious list of nominee's over looked over the Years by the CCB including Morgan and Counihan relatively recently.

The consensus was that Cuthbert was rewarded by the CCB for his great work in Cork GAA, which in Cork with a good lot of people, carries a lot of baggage. If the CCB would simply let real democracy rule it would be a great thing for Cork GAA and they won't have all this negativity directed towards them then and we can all move on. Unfortunately l think Cuthbert has had a lot of negativity pointed towards him because of the baggage associated with the selection process, which is not his fault. That is wholly unfair.

In fairness this is the type of stuff I would expect from the same fellas who let out that statement a couple of weeks ago: the real question is WHY were those players supposedly 'not' available to the cork footballers??? Cuthbert was centrally involved in them not being involved.
As for him getting the job, lets remember this is a fella who in 2013, thought he would be able to compete with the likes of Kerry with his full back, wing back and primary midfielder only with the squad half the time.......THe revisionism of the last 2 years is laughable, cork were in absolute disarray for most of those 2 years, no plan, no consistency of selection, favouritism towards certain players which was unjustified and a real inability to actually motivate players - that's what the last 2 years has been imo.
Cuthbert may well be a good manager , but his record is terrible, he was involved as a coach/manager with the cork minors for 4 years and won one munster title, those same players won an all Ireland u21 and 3 munster titles with cleary, Cuthbert has won NOTHING as a club coach.
I have no doubt he can organise things in regard underage development etc etc but as a senior county manager his record was disastrous, he deserves thanks for his efforts which are undoubted and does not deserve personal abuse (this has been overblown to suit some agendas) but his record is terrible.

thinkstoomuch1

sean mac wrote: »

In fairness this is the type of stuff I would expect from the same fellas who let out that statement a couple of weeks ago: the real question is WHY were those players supposedly 'not' available to the cork footballers??? Cuthbert was centrally involved in them not being involved.
As for him getting the job, lets remember this is a fella who in 2013, thought he would be able to compete with the likes of Kerry with his full back, wing back and primary midfielder only with the squad half the time.......THe revisionism of the last 2 years is laughable, cork were in absolute disarray for most of those 2 years, no plan, no consistency of selection, favouritism towards certain players which was unjustified and a real inability to actually motivate players - that's what the last 2 years has been imo.
Cuthbert may well be a good manager , but his record is terrible, he was involved as a coach/manager with the cork minors for 4 years and won one munster title, those same players won an all Ireland u21 and 3 munster titles with cleary, Cuthbert has won NOTHING as a club coach.
I have no doubt he can organise things in regard underage development etc etc but as a senior county manager his record was disastrous, he deserves thanks for his efforts which are undoubted and does not deserve personal abuse (this has been overblown to suit some agendas) but his record is terrible.

Absolutely bang on and in particular this personal abuse cuthbhertt shouldn't be tolerated but as you say it's over blown suit some agendas and usual he's ameauteaur etc etc


O se sweeny etc have given him no personal abuse but called system what it was a complete shambles to be fair

slingerz

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

Clerk you have to remember that by allowing the dual players Cuthbert ended up losing Walsh and Cahalane to the hurlers that's his fault as manager he made that call to get the job... TTM Chizende Obegene is a great prospect but they are saying in Nemo that he might be going soccer a huge pity if that happens....speaking of another talent Dan Dineen did not play for Cill Na Matra in the u21 B final is he injured ??

Dan Dineen broke a bone in his foot in minor championship 3 weeks or so ago so probably not back from that yet. Talented kid though a cert for Cork U21 next year

clerk

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Regards the minor team there was no unbelievable ball skill as you put it

You're a gas man thinks, I was talking about the "balls" between your legs.

clerk

sean mac wrote: »

In fairness this is the type of stuff I would expect from the same fellas who let out that statement a couple of weeks ago: the real question is WHY were those players supposedly 'not' available to the cork footballers???

It was more a general point about the mass of talent that some fellows seem to think we have after our successes underage at football.

I agree that Cuthbert should not have agreed to the dual players, it's impossible in this Day and age and the players decided that for themselves after one Year of it.

Figsy32

If JBM goes I wouldn't be surprised to see Cahalane switch back to the footballers now that Cuthbert is gone.

zetecescort

best of luck to the Ladies this evening, Galway have been impressive all year

thinkstoomuch1

clerk wrote: »

It was more a general point about the mass of talent that some fellows seem to think we have after our successes underage at football.

I agree that Cuthbert should not have agreed to the dual players, it's impossible in this Day and age and the players decided that for themselves after one Year of it.

Your right players aidan Walsh ist called the utter utter utter shambles dualism to a head yet cuthbhertt preached after in papers he's management review things ended it when no they did not

Players told him they were ending it
Cadogan didn't get game hurling last year other wise would have joined also

As for alan your wrong in as good football he was he wasn't better than hurley goulding o Neill mac Eoin etc
So cadogan no excuse yet management said time was huge loss despite not playing senior

thinkstoomuch1

Figsy32 wrote: »

If JBM goes I wouldn't be surprised to see Cahalane switch back to the footballers now that Cuthbert is gone.

Absoultey if cleary goes in and Walsh possibly too
For all jbm faults it always made sense choose hurling over football
At least hurling won two championship games

ShamoBuc

Ladies winning at ht 1-06 v 0-02

Playing well. I love their sertup. Fowards that are hard working and high scoring and a defence that are hard in the tackle, funnel well in the middle and intercept pass after pass, forcing galway to shoot from out wide. Super team, super coach!!

zetecescort

thought the Ladies were trying to score a goal with every attack instead of taking their point but kicked some very important points in the last few minutes of the half. Ciara O'Sullivan having a blinder

The White Feather

They should put a player cam on Briege Corkery (and others also) and show it to the men.

They need to be shown her skill,heart and commitment and then the men might be as good as the ladies in not lying down

ShamoBuc

Ladies win 1-12 v 1-10

Galway came back well but the girls stuck it out. Bríd ' thou shall not pass' Stack and the Duracell bunny herself Corkery showed true grit and determination

Kerry next!!!

rebel girl 15

Corkery player of the match

clerk

The White Feather wrote: »

They should put a player cam on Briege Corkery

She's a class act alright.

thinkstoomuch1

Outstanding win of organisations believe skill hunger want and desire by the ladies and again all comes from good coaching
This team always wins the importance games and doesn't win mickey mouse ones but key games
Huge huge win imo as I always felt Galway would be a huge danger
Would not fear kerry at all and worse thing happened was hammered cork would been better close win

Reilly flynn corkery and sullivan good games with corkery above everyone

Eammon Ryan top management again top management
He actually knows what he's doing and how to do it unlike some coaches around

rebel girl 15

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Outstanding win of organisations believe skill hunger want and desire by the ladies and again all comes from good coaching
This team always wins the importance games and doesn't win mickey mouse ones but key games
Huge huge win imo as I always felt Galway would be a huge danger
Would not fear kerry at all and worse thing happened was hammered cork would been better close win

Reilly flynn corkery and sullivan good games with corkery above everyone

Eammon Ryan top management again top management
He actually knows what he's doing and how to do it unlike some coaches around

Wouldn't fear Kerry after being beaten by them in the Munster final for the 2nd time in three years?? Seriously?

Hurleratheart

Some get outa jail from Middleton tonight

Should have points taken away for some of them wides

They wont be as bad again

ShamoBuc

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Wouldn't fear Kerry after being beaten by them in the Munster final for the 2nd time in three years?? Seriously?

I think those losses will spur them on even more. Kerry have certainly improved in recent years, but I am sure our ladies will be chomping at the bit the next day for a bit of revenge.

CORKDOUBLE

Brian Cody said during the week that one of the skills of the game is hard work ...I think some of our senior hurlers and footballers would want to look at that performance by the ladies tonight ...hard work non stop incredible group Briege Corkery is just a true great of all Gaelic games ...herself and Rena playing again tomorrow a huge game against the she cats ....

thinkstoomuch1

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Wouldn't fear Kerry after being beaten by them in the Munster final for the 2nd time in three years?? Seriously?

No cause in all ireland cork usually win
It's a role reversal in men's football cork beat kerry in league but loose championship
Cork will I'd imagine be a totally different team in the all ireland series

thinkstoomuch1

Hurleratheart wrote: »

Some get outa jail from Middleton tonight

Should have points taken away for some of them wides

They wont be as bad again

They never were in danger of loosing to be fair so hardly got out of jail

Huge win for them with so many wides like you said won't be as bad again
Will be side that could rattle the championship
I hope they win it as Cork best chance in munster

thinkstoomuch1

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

Brian Cody said during the week that one of the skills of the game is hard work ...I think some of our senior hurlers and footballers would want to look at that performance by the ladies tonight ...hard work non stop incredible group Briege Corkery is just a true great of all Gaelic games ...herself and Rena playing again tomorrow a huge game against the she cats ....

He's right but he's been preaching that now for as long as dawn break day and people think just hard work


It's not as kk hugely practice skill games and tactics play huge part
Kilkenny under cody brought in first physics trainer years ago so cody does innovation and ten years ago v Cork showed tactic beat Cork possession game so while it's true people get too caught up in hard work ethic in cody loved people focus that but cody has many strings to he's bow


One colour never made a rainbow and it's the same with kk many colours make their rainbow and cody is indeed the crock of gold at the end of it

Gary Neville

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You're unbelievable with respect with your flip flopping regards cork managment that now you join this view they were poor, only weeks ago you were the same fella saying cork would beat kerry, cork would beat anyone country bar Dublin and indeed you were one hundred let's be crystal clear you were one hundred percent view cork lost kerry over weather and referee
All you wanted to hear was postive stuff
Fair enough fella might have view for management so it's easy to debate but you change tune so many times with respect cork managment hard to take anything you say seriously as one week your for them next week your not


As regards deane with respect yes your entitled to your opinion but imo you have been proven be way off all year and regards deane your talking absolute nononenss of the highest order
Have you seen him for club etc
Have you seen gould being so poor
At worst he's equal to gould

You say cuthbhertt deserves credit for loughrey
You are absoultey taking nonessential facts, he deserves total critsim playing half back man marker corner back and no no no despite one off game v kerry Barry o Driscoll not half back and deserve no credit playing half forward there
He has played cadogan at midfield so no credit due
Fair enough regards Brian o Driscoll however he then dropped him when shouldn't have and played him corner back v Kildare and also half back line too attack minded v kerry
You say yes brought Cronin in however he played him on Barry keane ist game v kerry and out position half back when should been corner back
Your still living off false dawns v kerry and you fail to see players you mentioned while played under him were hugely hindered by being played out of position

You must be the most argumentative poster on this forum. What kick do you get from trying to get into arguments and criticising other posters ?

For the umpteenth time - I said I'd reserve judgement on Cuthbert until after the Kerry Game - I've always said his first year was woeful.

I believe that Cuthbert was unlucky this season - he had the team well prepared and motivated for the Kerry tie and but for an awful mistake by a poor ref - he might have got Cork to an AI final - we'll never know.

No one will ever claim that he was a top class IC Manager and his handling of Kelly, Gould and Goulding was poor IMO.

If you keep up your present dictorial style then I'm not interested in engaging with you - like is too short for that kind of inane crap.

thinkstoomuch1

Gary Neville wrote: »

You must be the most argumentative poster on this forum. What kick do you get from trying to get into arguments and criticising other posters ?

For the umpteenth time - I said I'd reserve judgement on Cuthbert until after the Kerry Game - I've always said his first year was woeful.

I believe that Cuthbert was unlucky this season - he had the team well prepared and motivated for the Kerry tie and but for an awful mistake by a poor ref - he might have got Cork to an AI final - we'll never know.

No one will ever claim that he was a top class IC Manager and his handling of Kelly, Gould and Goulding was poor IMO.

If you keep up your present dictorial style then I'm not interested in engaging with you - like is too short for that kind of inane crap.

I'm not to be fair but there you go again about the ref we could got all ireland final

That just proved my point in one sentence

Hugely disrespectful like ccb you are of other counties say cork would got all ireland final

Look well agree disagree as you fail realise kerry were complacent

No i wasn't looking to argue or get enjoyment but your points don't have logic back up cork would got all ireland final with respect and all doing was point out your change of views but your entitled to your opinion fair enough

Gary Neville

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I'm not to be fair but there you go again about the ref we could got all ireland final

That just proved my point in one sentence

Hugely disrespectful like ccb you are of other counties say cork would got all ireland final

Look well agree disagree as you fail realise kerry were complacent

No i wasn't looking to argue or get enjoyment but your points don't have logic back up cork would got all ireland final with respect and all doing was point out your change of views but your entitled to your opinion fair enough

Do you understand English ?

You misquote me and then use that to say you've proved your point. Then you accuse me on not using logic to back up my points. Do you understand the meaning of 'perverse irony'?


I said that but for the ref's decision, Cuthbert could have taken Cork to an AI Final. That's not disrespecting other teams, that's offering an opinion based on a lot of factors. However, I repeat - we'll never know.

You are entitled to your opinion, as am I.

CCB (due mainly to Frank's influence IMO) took a big risk in appointing Cuthbert over an obviously more qualified candidate. The controversial nature of the appointment and the inexperience of Cuthbert's choices as selectors, were factors in a very poor first season. I noted enormous improvement in season 2 but of course, it was easier to improve on a bad season. The league final showed that Management was still on a learning curve.

I was a critic of Cuthbert in year 1 and I believe that he should not have been appointed - I also agree that he is best suited to an admin role (as suggested by his success in the chairing the development squad commitee) - however, I am prepared to acknowledge the effort and improvement by the management team in year 2.

I enjoy your posts, in general, due to your knowledge of Cork GAA matters but I don't want to engage directly with you, in the future (dog with a bone .....etc ) so let's leave it at that and not bore others BM's to distraction with our disagreements ?