Advice for Carrauntoohil

FrostyJack

falan wrote: »

Its like a few weeks ago when a certain TD posted a video on FB of a Whitewater Kayaking meet in Co Clare attended by some of the best Kayakers in the country. [/url]

No it is nothing like that, most of the people on here are experienced hikers so they are well aware of the subject matter. If it was super expert hiker men like Bear Grylls and yourself and they were training to climb Everest so they wanted to test their equipment and training on something closer to home, with all the precautions in the World taken, it does still not wash away the fact they could and did bring MR out in those conditions to save their asses. So they should have opened their eyes and seen what the conditions where like and not be selfish. Comparing them to people wear jeans going up mountains is not correct either as they don't know better, "experts" should know better so they are more accountable for their actions.

unkel

Fair point, FrostyJack, but the man could have broken his ankle in perfect weather mid summer and probably still would have called MR. Accidents happen and I haven't read anywhere that the injury happened because of the weather (although this could very well be the case)

FrostyJack

unkel wrote: »

Fair point, FrostyJack, but the man could have broken his ankle in perfect weather mid summer and probably still would have called MR. Accidents happen and I haven't read anywhere that the injury happened because of the weather (although this could very well be the case)

Yeah you are right, it could happen on a sunny day at the end of the garden but you don't need to drag people out for hours in treacherous conditions to resolve that, that is my point. He could have just slipped or ground could have given way. It wasn't like a sunny day and then the weather suddenly turned and they were caught out, that can happen anytime. Everyone was warned, in Dublin we even knew about the conditions.

BarryD

FrostyJack wrote: »

.... it does still not wash away the fact they could and did bring MR out in those conditions to save their asses. So they should have opened their eyes and seen what the conditions where like and not be selfish.

But you're very close there FrostyJack to saying that people should not go out on the hills if they think that it might result in a MR callout. That they shouldn't be selfish and should think of the people that might have to rescue them etc.

There have been three related changes in the hillwalking scene in Ireland since I started walking in the 1970s; the numbers of people involved are greater, there are more and better organised MR teams, nearly everyone now has a mobile phone and is encouraged to use it to call MR 'if in doubt'.

I'd be concerned about these latter two developments; we don't have big mountains in Ireland but the things that made them more serious undertakings at times were the lack of tracks and paths, remoteness, lack of other walkers and the need to be as self sufficient as regards taking care of your party. These elements are being eroded and personally I think we need to move back if possible. You already see this is the heavily used parts of the Lake District and Scotland where MRT teams are practically professional and people will take on climbs and routes outside their skill level on the basis that rescue is only a phone call away. Personally I don't think we want that here and neither do we want the emergency services telling people when they can and cannot go out on the hills. The availability or convenience of MR one way or the other should never be a factor.

falan

FrostyJack wrote: »

No it is nothing like that, most of the people on here are experienced hikers so they are well aware of the subject matter. If it was super expert hiker men like Bear Grylls and yourself and they were training to climb Everest so they wanted to test their equipment and training on something closer to home, with all the precautions in the World taken, it does still not wash away the fact they could and did bring MR out in those conditions to save their asses. So they should have opened their eyes and seen what the conditions where like and not be selfish. Comparing them to people wear jeans going up mountains is not correct either as they don't know better, "experts" should know better so they are more accountable for their actions.

You might as well say people should not go climbing mountains in winter in case they have an accident and have to call MR? Do you know there were other call outs by other MRTs around the country the same day? and the day before in the same place? Or is RTE your only news source? Why not give out about them?

FrostyJack

I never said people should be detered from going into the hills. If MR tell you and every dog on the street not to go there and you do, who is responsible? I have been out many times on sunny days and the forecast has been positive only for it to take a turn for the worst. I wouldn't look out the window and say " looks like it might rain, might need to call mountain rescue, so I better not go". If it is monsooning down with a large storm approaching and I go up, I am responsible for risking people's lives to save me if something goes wrong. Another example is artillery firing at Glen of Imaal, when they announce they are firing and people still go up thinking they are rambo.
I follow most of the MR's Facebooks pages and see whatever call outs they post. I only take special notice of call outs in DWMRT as they are local. Anyone who went out in those conditions I would critise, though in saying that going up a 200 metre hill and a 1000 metre one, there is a big difference in terms of risk. This thread is about that mountain that is why it is being discussed. Whoever brought up that group seen on national news hence why we are talking about them and not others.

jimd2

falan wrote: »

Theres no evidence to say he broke his leg due to weather? rather be up on a open mountain in this weather than a street where slates and the likes could take you out. The mountain rescue want to be out. It's how they get more funding. The more incident s the more funding. Plus the experience is pretty invaluable to them.

Have a look at the latest appeal from the Kerry Mountain Rescue. Where in it do they say that they want to be out in these conditions?

http://www.killarneytoday.com/rescue-team-appeal-please-stay-away/

THE Kerry Mountain Rescue Team has tonight pleaded with the public to take serious heed of all weather warnings and to avoid the mountains at this time.

I am not sure if it could be made much clearer than that.

falan

jimd2 wrote: »

Have a look at the latest appeal from the Kerry Mountain Rescue. Where in it do they say that they want to be out in these conditions?

http://www.killarneytoday.com/rescue-team-appeal-please-stay-away/

THE Kerry Mountain Rescue Team has tonight pleaded with the public to take serious heed of all weather warnings and to avoid the mountains at this time.

I am not sure if it could be made much clearer than that.

Ok , they should not have been out.:)

CardinalJ

Evening all,

Heading from Dublin to climb Carrauntoohill this coming Saturday, weather dependent.

Wondering has anyone been up in the last few days? We were going to either go up the zig zags or devils ladder.

Can anyone pass on any general advice on underfoot conditions in winter conditions? Based on weather at this stage it looks like it will be nice and cold!

Any information appreciated.

Cheers.

RamblingRuairi

CardinalJ wrote: »

Evening all,

Heading from Dublin to climb Carrauntoohill this coming Saturday, weather dependent.

Wondering has anyone been up in the last few days? We were going to either go up the zig zags or devils ladder.

Can anyone pass on any general advice on underfoot conditions in winter conditions? Based on weather at this stage it looks like it will be nice and cold!

Any information appreciated.

Cheers.

Was up there yesterday - unbelievable day (Central Gully and down the Zig Zags....kinda gliassaded most of the way down)

Spoke to a few "climbers" who came up the Ladder and they said is was "treacherous" but I can't stand over that report as I wasn't on it myself.
The Zigzags, if you plan to follow the path, didn't exist as it was completely snow covered

With the change in weather, rain and mist in the Hag's Glen today, the majority of the snow should have melted but I believe some snow is forecast again on Thurs & Fri.

We had and used ice axes and crampons so I would definitely recommend packing them (better to be looking at them and not need them than need them and be looking for them). Snow was very deep in places and icy in the shade.

Hope this helps but again, this info is from yesterday

EndaHonesty

CardinalJ wrote: »

Evening all,

Heading from Dublin to climb Carrauntoohill this coming Saturday, weather dependent.

Wondering has anyone been up in the last few days? We were going to either go up the zig zags or devils ladder.

Can anyone pass on any general advice on underfoot conditions in winter conditions? Based on weather at this stage it looks like it will be nice and cold!

Any information appreciated.

Cheers.

It looks like more snow is forecast for the rest of the week and being very cold over the weekend so it could be very slippy up high.

If you don't want to go to the expense of buying crampons and crampon compatible boots, a pair of Yaktrax over your hiking boots will make walking on hard ice much easier and safer.

They are pretty cheap and pack down small so easy to keep in your bag.

They are sometimes available in Heatons Sports for less than 20 yo-yos.

The standard Yaktrax Walker grips are fine but can come off in soft snow so if you can get the Yaktrax Pro with the additional velcro strap they are more secure.

If you can't get the Pro version it's pretty easy to add some strapping to the standard ones too.

icesnowfrost

From now until at least Monday the weather is going to be very bad or good depending on wat u like. high winds and lots of snow. Don't climb with out the proper gear and u will most likely need crampons and a helmet.
Stay safe.

monkeynuz

Blowing up bad here for the last hour or so, heavy showers of rain too, going to be a fun night.

Will see if there's snow on the mountains from the breakfast table in the morning!

CardinalJ

monkeynuz wrote:

Will see if there's snow on the mountains from the breakfast table in the morning!

Yea if you could let me know it'd be great.

falan

Mountain forecast.com is a site people can use for weather forecasts at mountain summits. Carrauntoohill is on it.

CardinalJ

Climbed Carrauntoohil on Saturday. Went up the Devils ladder and down the Zig Zags.

We were lucky with weather. Wind picked up once or twice and a bit of fresh snow at times, but perfect given the time of the year. Didn't have crampons or need them, but used the opportunity on the way down to practice self arrest using my axe.

The Devils ladder route is a bit tricky in places but I enjoyed going up, wouldn't go down it unless I had no other option though, it'd be lethal.

I was chatting to some locals at the summit who were saying Kerry Mountain rescue would like to see more people use the Zig Zags as a route, but it's not marked up as a route/option which is odd. You wouldn't find it if you wanted to go up it.

fits

If I go up again, Im definitely coming down via the zig zags.

ishotjr2

Tried to come down the zig zags before in a light snow it was lethal. There was a wind coming up from the valley that hardened all the snow it was like ice, for the first few meters of the decent. We turned back and went down the devils ladder on our rears

It was definitely the right choice on that day, but you know yourself.

RamblingRuairi

CardinalJ wrote: »

Climbed Carrauntoohil on Saturday. Went up the Devils ladder and down the Zig Zags.

We were lucky with weather. Wind picked up once or twice and a bit of fresh snow at times, but perfect given the time of the year. Didn't have crampons or need them, but used the opportunity on the way down to practice self arrest using my axe.

The Devils ladder route is a bit tricky in places but I enjoyed going up, wouldn't go down it unless I had no other option though, it'd be lethal.

I was chatting to some locals at the summit who were saying Kerry Mountain rescue would like to see more people use the Zig Zags as a route, but it's not marked up as a route/option which is odd. You wouldn't find it if you wanted to go up it.

There's a lot of chatter about this at the moment as I have heard that some folks want people to avoid the ZigZags as it is suffering from accelerated erosion due to overuse in recent years.
There's a lot of work ongoing in the Hag's Glen at the moment with proposed work (over the next few years) for the Ladder and O'Shea's Gully along with the Hydro track side of the mountain.
We'll wait and see

bermia

I plan to walk Carrantouhill this weekend. Can anyone recommend a guide? I want to do a pretty challenging walk and would prefer a guide I think. Or is it possible to do from Killarney by public transport. I have walked it before with a guide as part of the walking festival a few years ago.

ishotjr2

> Can anyone recommend a guide?
I cannot recommend a guide as I have never used one I know two groups who do it
Con Moriarty (http://www.hiddenirelandtours.com/)
Irish Adventures (http://www.irishadventures.net/) ( I have done Kayaking with these and found them great ).

> I want to do a pretty challenging walk and would prefer a guide I think.
I would highly recommend http://www.collinspress.ie/carrauntoohil-and-macgillycuddys-reeks.html
Do you want to provide some info on what you define as Challenging. Frankly navigation and keeping your head can be the biggest challenge.

The first time I did Carrauntoohil, I landed into Cronins Yard, and followed people on the worst days of the year there is always people climbing. Few weeks ago in Snow and Gale winds I was convinced I would be the only idiot doing Carrauntoohil when 30 school kids arrived on the peak and it was baltic cold.

> Or is it possible to do from Killarney by public transport.
I do not think there is a bus that comes close to here maybe Beaufort, but that is still a good walk (10k-15k) to Cronins Yard or Lisleibane.
I would get a Taxi, I recall it costing 40e but you want to double check that.

Another idea would be to ring one of the youth hostels as I am sure this is a common request.

The two toughest routes IMHO are
1. Coumlaughra Horseshoe (do not do it on your own) http://www.kerrymountainrescue.ie/routes/caher.html
2. Big Gun Ridge to Carrauntoohil (http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/walks-the-big-gun-is-a-blast-on-the-reeks-ridge-co-kerry-1.2237383) (do not do it on your own)

---

3. O Shea's Gully and Down the Heavenly Gates (I think that is OK to do on your own as there are usually groups walking it, but it is unlikely you will find the trails unless you can follow someone). http://www.kerrymountainrescue.ie/routes/brother_osheas.html

Have a look on moutainviews.ie also

Aimeee

Charity climb on 29 May, details on link;
https://www.mercyfundraising.ie/events/climb-to-remember

I know it's not next weekend. Might be another option for you. You could probably find a bus leaving one of the hostels as mentioned already or contact tourist office Killarney for info on getting to Cronins Yard.

bermia

Thanks for the replies. I am good at walking but not great at mapreading or compass using. I think i did the Horseshoe, or Ridge of the Reeks a few years ago and the walking was fine. But we had a great guide. I have emailed a few to ask for quotes for a guided walk. I would prefer to pay money and spend my time walking rather than getting lost. My friend is also an experienced walker but doesn't have a great head for heights which might reduce our choicees.

Thanks for the link for the walk. That's the weekend I am doing the Barretstown 42km Dublin mountains way. We are tied into this weekend as the hotel and train are booked.

I have emailed two guides for quotes and recommendations.

EndaHonesty

bermia wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I am good at walking but not great at mapreading or compass using. I think i did the Horseshoe, or Ridge of the Reeks a few years ago and the walking was fine. But we had a great guide. I have emailed a few to ask for quotes for a guided walk. I would prefer to pay money and spend my time walking rather than getting lost. My friend is also an experienced walker but doesn't have a great head for heights which might reduce our choicees.

Thanks for the link for the walk. That's the weekend I am doing the Barretstown 42km Dublin mountains way. We are tied into this weekend as the hotel and train are booked.

I have emailed two guides for quotes and recommendations.

Trail Magazine used John O'Sullivan of The Lodge & Reeks Guiding Company for a recent trip to Kerry, so he must be a well respected guide.

Piaras Kelly of Kerry Climbing is very active on Facebook and runs the Ultimate High Peaks Challenge so he also looks to be very reputable.

I've no connection to or ever used either. Hope you have a great trip.

ishotjr2

Well if you already did the Big Gun and Coomloughra the only other one I can think of is to do the trail from Gap of Dunloe to Climbers Inn goes across all the peaks. It is covered in http://www.collinspress.ie/carrauntoohil-and-macgillycuddys-reeks.html

For what it is worth the hardest 1 day trail in that area in my opinion is the Cloon Lough circuit it is covered in "The Dingle, Iveragh & Beara Peninsulas: A Walking Guide" Adrian Hendroff. Amazing, stunning views (waterfalls, lakes, very odd geology) very remote and incredibly tough. Just when you think there cannot be more there is another mountain. Again just my opinion, I am sure someone will chime in with they did it on a mono-cycle while smoking 40 Rothmans.

ishotjr2

ishotjr2 wrote: »

For what it is worth the hardest 1 day trail in that area in my opinion is the Cloon Lough circuit it is covered in "The Dingle, Iveragh & Beara Peninsulas: A Walking Guide" Adrian Hendroff. Amazing, stunning views (waterfalls, lakes, very odd geology) very remote and incredibly tough. Just when you think there cannot be more there is another mountain. Again just my opinion, I am sure someone will chime in with they did it on a mono-cycle while smoking 40 Rothmans.

It's a great circuit, best if one walks all the way from Mullaghanattin to Knocknagantee and then veers North to Knockmoyle and back the other side of the lake. It's not as airy or exposed as the Reeks, the Big Gun Ridge is more exposed. But the Cloon Horseshoe is much more remote, unlikely to see anyone else out there all day, and very hard to come off once on the wal...you're a long way from everywhere when in the middle of the Dunkerrons.

BarryD

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a great circuit, best if one walks all the way from Mullaghanattin to Knocknagantee and then veers North to Knockmoyle and back the other side of the lake. It's not as airy or exposed as the Reeks, the Big Gun Ridge is more exposed. But the Cloon Horseshoe is much more remote, unlikely to see anyone else out there all day, and very hard to come off once on the wal...you're a long way from everywhere when in the middle of the Dunkerrons.

Rough tough ground up there all right! Challenge for wind & limb.

RamblingRuairi

Piaras in KerryClimbing is imo one of the best guides for the Reeks. Feels like you climbing with a friend

youngrun

Hi is there a map for the zigzags route anywhere, have looked at the KMR site but not on that. Looking at doing this over summer, physically very fit but do not have a great head for heights when descending...

ishotjr2

Only one I could see was this
http://mountainviews.ie/summit/1/comment/4048/

But it is covered in
http://www.collinspress.ie/carrauntoohil-and-macgillycuddys-reeks.html
I seem to be always be punting Jim Ryans book, I assure you we are not related.

If I did not have a great head for heights I would not go down the zig zags initial bit can seem a little steep but then it slopes off nice and gentle.
How about going down the Bone, bit longer but it more of a gentle descent.
http://www.activeme.ie/guides/walks/carrauntoohil-via-zig-zag-and-the-bone/

Then again everyone will have an opinion, best thing to remember is that it is all pretty much manageable once its a decent day. Enjoy.