Chain Saw Chat

bassy

JayZeus wrote: »

Does the saw 'race' on you? Like, revving up very quickly. If so, don't run it again until you check for air leaks around the intake. If it's been doing that and now it won't stay running and is losing power, do a compression test. Might have a knackered piston or transferred aluminium onto the cylinder below the intake port. Hopefully nothing like that, but it's common enough and can happen very quickly without realising it if you're not in a position to notice it. Compression test and if that's not right, strip the cylinder out and see what's what.

If compression is good it could be load of things really.

Fuel filter, on the end of the fuel pickup hose end in the tank. Change it.

Blocked vent/breather in the tank, creating a vacuum when the saws been running and starving the carb. You'll know it if you hear a sucking sound when you open the filler cap after it's been running. Easy to do on the husky saws, probably similar on the Stihls.

Carb diaphragm could be perforated or a blocked needle could be the fault if it's constant. Look up the service manual, set it back to the defaults and if no better, consider putting a carb kit and new fuel line into the saw. If you use normal petrol and your own 2 stroke oil to make a mix it could be that the carb needs a kit anyway.

Might also want to check the chain brake band and see if it's dragging on the clutch assembly. That will stall an idling saw and could hold down the power you get to the chain. Weak clutch springs (they age) might be the culprit or it could just need a good clean.

If you need to clean stuff out I recommend the Stihl chainsaw cleaner spray bottle. It's a gel and you need to follow the instructions but it'll remove old sap, resin, burnt oil, everything. Don't leave it sitting on plastics for long. The instructions are easy and important. Money well spent and kinder on the saw seals and parts than kero or petrol, which is silly stuff to be using for that job anyway. I only mention it as I see plenty doing it.

There's other things can cause you trouble but be methodical and try some of those and let us know how you get on first.

where are you located ?.

just thinking I had a bottle of 2 stroke I found in the shed and it was there for a number of yrs and I used that in a petrol mix of 50:1 5 litres to 100ml 2 stroke.

I wonder was it the 2 stroke,thinking about it now it was quite stupid of me to use that 2 stroke cause its yrs old.

bassy

bassy wrote: »

where are you located ?.

just thinking I had a bottle of 2 stroke I found in the shed and it was there for a number of yrs and I used that in a petrol mix of 50:1 5 litres to 100ml 2 stroke.

I wonder was it the 2 stroke,thinking about it now it was quite stupid of me to use that 2 stroke cause its yrs old.

Was it oil for saws/machinery? If the bottle was sealed and you mixed it well, that won't be a problem. But dirt or rust in the petrol can could cause you problems also.

bassy

JayZeus wrote: »

Was it oil for saws/machinery? If the bottle was sealed and you mixed it well, that won't be a problem. But dirt or rust in the petrol can could cause you problems also.

it was 2 stroke oil in a bottle that had been opened years ago,but lid on bottle was closed tight.
wonder those 2 stroke lose its purpose after been not used in years ??.

if it was,nt properly mixed.as in not enough 2 stoke in the petrol would it give problems like I was having?.

Don't fixate on the bottle of 2 stroke. If it wasn't good, yes, it could cause problems. But if it was mixed in the correct ratio and the bottle was properly close (keeping moisture out) it's probably alright. That's assuming it was 2 stroke intended for saws and the likes, as opposed to 2 stroke for an outboard engine for a boat. So start at the top of the list and work your way down if you want to start digging out what's actually happening. Check compression first. If the compression is low, you may have a problem that needs you to pull to top end off the saw to inspect. If the compression is okay, check that the chain brake isn't dragging, then fit a new fuel filter and tank vent if needed etc. If that doesn't sort it, put a kit in the carb or get a replacement carb. One step at a time and work up to big problems and expense. You may well find that it's an easy/cheap fix. Compression first though. Any saw not running right and without an obvious issue, see if it has good compression before you decide to spend any time or money on it. It's a good indicator of the saws overall health and will let you decide early that it's worth investing something in fixing it, or not.

bassy

JayZeus wrote: »

Don't fixate on the bottle of 2 stroke. If it wasn't good, yes, it could cause problems. But if it was mixed in the correct ratio and the bottle was properly close (keeping moisture out) it's probably alright. That's assuming it was 2 stroke intended for saws and the likes, as opposed to 2 stroke for an outboard engine for a boat. So start at the top of the list and work your way down if you want to start digging out what's actually happening. Check compression first. If the compression is low, you may have a problem that needs you to pull to top end off the saw to inspect. If the compression is okay, check that the chain brake isn't dragging, then fit a new fuel filter and tank vent if needed etc. If that doesn't sort it, put a kit in the carb or get a replacement carb. One step at a time and work up to big problems and expense. You may well find that it's an easy/cheap fix. Compression first though. Any saw not running right and without an obvious issue, see if it has good compression before you decide to spend any time or money on it. It's a good indicator of the saws overall health and will let you decide early that it's worth investing something in fixing it, or not.

the compression seems good the 2 stroke yes intended for saws as has a picture of a saw on the bottle etc
I took the fuel filter out looks fine,but then again whos to say its not fine.

You said earlier it seems to go full power and then cuts out, right?

Fuel starvation, or an air leak on the intake. It's one of those. If compression is actually good. A compression gauge isn't expensive.

Make sure the carb and intake boot and all that bit is good and tight.

If it is, change the fuel filter, fit a new fuel hose/line and put a carb/carb-kit into it.

bassy

JayZeus wrote: »

You said earlier it seems to go full power and then cuts out, right?

Fuel starvation, or an air leak on the intake. It's one of those. If compression is actually good. A compression gauge isn't expensive.

Make sure the carb and intake boot and all that bit is good and tight.

If it is, change the fuel filter, fit a new fuel hose/line and put a carb/carb-kit into it.

will report back tomorrow when I go at it again,and thanks for your help.really appreciated

bassy

went at the saw today and my god does it take forever to start from cold,got it up and running and its fine now and running well.
but another pain is when I leave it down it cuts out,tuning not correct?.
got a new plug but came home with to big a wide head on the threaded part of the plug,the plug in the ms-181 is a skinny kind of threaded head.

so 2 problems is it takes a age to start from cold and as I said it will cut out when left in idol as in when you leave it down to tick over it cuts out.so the are my only 2 problems now with the saw.

I opened the petrol cap this morning on the saw and you could hear a gush for a second.

Don't know what else to add so I'll just repeat myself again.

Another plug isn't going to fix it. If the one that's in it works, it's not fouled and it's gapped correctly, that's good enough. Use the one you bought to check that the magneto is generating enough current to fire the plug. Videos on youtube to show how I'm sure. But it runs with the plug that's in it, so this is irrelevant really for you. Including it so others can see the step in future if they're looking for a workflow to troubleshoot.

Compression. Get a meter and give us the reading. You think it has good compression, but that's not a measurement. It matters, so get a meter and get the reading. You take the reading with the saw stone cold, and you use a cable tie to hold the throttle open while you pull the saw over a few times to build the pressure for a good reading on the gauge. Not being a dick but if you won't do that you're just guessing and nobody can help you there. Get a reading.

Intake air leak. Did you check everything is tight and not perished/cracked? If there's a rubber boot on the intake, that's a likely culprit to have split or perished and if so it'll end up ruining the piston/cylinder etc. Check it. If you're not sure how, just look up the details online. I'm pretty sure there's a rubber boot on those saws, so don't ignore this advice.

Chain brake, dragging clutch. Did you remove the clutch cover, clean and inspect the brake band for signs it's dragging and wearing, same on the outer face of the clutch rim? If you don't know what you're looking at, take it off, clean it and stick up a few pictures and we'll let you know.

Reset the carb adjustment. Get the service/owners manual for details. Usually you GENTLY screw the idle and throttle adjustment screws all the way in, then out X number of turns. Do this carefully as tightening the screws too heavily will damage the jets/needles.

Fuel filter, fuel line and carb kit. Replace the fuel filter and fuel line first if you want, then move on to rebuilding the carb with a new kit (€10) or replace it completely. Chinese carbs are cheap but if the saw is good otherwise I'd stick with a Walbro or whatever's on it from the factory.

I'm trying to help, but you need to work through the list not just pick and choose to be fair.

bassy

thanks jayzeus.

when saw is cold I put the full choke on,and when im pulling to start I never hear that sound where you know its about to start where you can flick up the switch to the next setting and it should fire 2-3 pulls in that setting.

aloso noticed the plug goes very black,i had it out the other day and cleaned it well.then had it out again and it was black again,is this normal?.

CJhaughey

Got out and about outside today, cut some firewood up and gave the saws a run to keep them fresh, I mix Aspen blue bottle with my own oil @40:1 and it really makes a difference to them over time.
Homelite Super XL Auto Oiler, 56cc of hand numbing vibrating saw. fun but not for long.


Zenoah G500AVS, Lots of copies these days but this one is made in Japan,
Before Husqvarna took them over. Tsumura bar on this one.
Smooth and easy to use all day.


Husky 262XPG. 1990 so it qualifies for vintage tax, but will still outcut a lot of newer saws, I rebuilt it some years ago and it runs strong plenty of compression on this one, which is why it has a Stihl rubber start handle.
Good when shutting down as well as it saves on starter wear.
Heated grips are nice in cold conditions as well.

bassy

have uploaded some pics for you jayzeus to take a look,i stripped the carb last night and gave it a clean but to be honest I didn't really see any crap or gunk in it.
also took off the exhaust and gave that a good old clean while I was at it,you can see the piston in picture.
put it all back together.put it on full choke gave quite a few pulls and nothing,so then when it was on full choke I kept my finger pushed down hard on the full choke switch and she took off,turned off full choke she started up and was purring nicely.

I think the carb is not opening enough on full choke and when I pushed down on the switch for full choke seem to be enough of a push there to open the choke more and she gave the noise where you know to turn off the choke and another pull on idle off she went.

it will be interesting later to try it when the saw is cold and see will my theory of pushing down on the full choke switch start her,if it does then it seems the carb is not opening enough by just putting it on full choke.

https://ibb.co/zQLdVgM
https://ibb.co/QPNwkB7
https://ibb.co/3yyfkhJ
https://ibb.co/SsBQ1Gq
https://ibb.co/DQYwrMG
https://ibb.co/Y7g12fD
https://ibb.co/89RY1jx
https://ibb.co/X345B78
https://ibb.co/bWTBGvr
https://ibb.co/xzbWKRS
https://ibb.co/BwvhQ3t

bassy

just tried my saw again from cold and just to confirm it was the choke switch when on full choke it was,nt quite opening the carb enough to fire the saw.
so a gentle push down on the choke switch with my finger and 2-3 pulls it goes to start,then off with the full choke and a pull or 2 and shes running well am happy it was a simple problem.

Good man. Nothing wrong anyway that I can see in those pictures. Saw's nice and clean. Forgot they had an inboard clutch too, but no odds. Glad you got it worked out in the end up.

bassy

JayZeus wrote: »

Good man. Nothing wrong anyway that I can see in those pictures. Saw's nice and clean. Forgot they had an inboard clutch too, but no odds. Glad you got it worked out in the end up.

thanks jay,ye the saw is in great condition very clean and never dogged.
just a pity I did,nt cop the problem before I took off the carb,but sure what harm at least it got a cleaning etc as did the exhaust while I was at it I said I may as well.

and thanks for your kind help,i know I probably frustrated you at times lol thanks again jay

bassy

heres my little wee stihl

https://ibb.co/7SrF13c

CJhaughey

I haven't used the 181 but the 180 was a nice little saw.

Nekarsulm

Have a 170, very handy for fencing and lighter stuff.

bassy

CJhaughey wrote: »

I haven't used the 181 but the 180 was a nice little saw.

There exact same really,think the only difference is that the 181 both fuel and oil tank are a wee bit bigger.

Bullocks

Lads where is the best place for sthil chainsaws around the west. I'm thinking of treating myself to either a 462 or 500i, the price I got was €1250 and €1399 local and I thought I might do a bit better.
Which saw would ye go for? I'm only farming but keep 3 houses of fire wood cut from a lot of big Ash growing and falling around.

Heavy handed

Bullocks wrote: »

Lads where is the best place for sthil chainsaws around the west. I'm thinking of treating myself to either a 462 or 500i, the price I got was €1250 and €1399 local and I thought I might do a bit better.
Which saw would ye go for? I'm only farming but keep 3 houses of fire wood cut from a lot of big Ash growing and falling around.

What shops have you tried. All the shops will vary but most will match prices. Wouldn’t mind a 500i myself but can’t justify one at the moment. Have a ms660 and ms880 along with a few smaller saws

Bullocks

Heavy handed wrote: »

What shops have you tried. All the shops will vary but most will match prices. Wouldn’t mind a 500i myself but can’t justify one at the moment. Have a ms660 and ms880 along with a few smaller saws

Only one in Galway so far, I'm in no rush but would prefer to deal local if possible. €1400snots is more than I should be spending aswell really but I'd hope to have it for a long time

Heavy handed

Bullocks wrote: »

Only one in Galway so far, I'm in no rush but would prefer to deal local if possible. €1400snots is more than I should be spending aswell really but I'd hope to have it for a long time

500i is new territory in the saw world and apart from the odd post you’d see on social media about it there’s not much else. Apparently a great saw and sounds like it would be ideal for big ash. Haven’t had personal experience with the 462 but from the few people I know with them, they all say there brilliant and handle all they throw at them. Mower.ie has the 500i for €1275

ednwireland

Bullocks wrote: »

Lads where is the best place for sthil chainsaws around the west. I'm thinking of treating myself to either a 462 or 500i, the price I got was €1250 and €1399 local and I thought I might do a bit better.
Which saw would ye go for? I'm only farming but keep 3 houses of fire wood cut from a lot of big Ash growing and falling around.

https://robertkee.ie/category/professional-forestry/1/stihl

462 1135

500i 1285

luckily its my local shop

Large bottle small glass

https://www.forestry.com/editorial/equipments/result-long-term-testing-stihl-ms-500i/

There's a 3 month review of the 500i.

I'd wait longer with new technology myself and let others be testing it. Also buying from a local dealer if he was capable would be essential for me.

I'd be asking myself why I need a saw that powerful for non professional use? Would a pro 50/60 cc saw do you if you skilled up?

Bullocks

https://monaghanhire.com/collections/chainsaws/products/stihl-ms-462-c-m-lightweight-chainsaw
I'll ring these lads today. Seems to be the best price online anyhow

CJhaughey

I wonder how long the 500i will be around? It doesn't seem like a saw that fits in anywhere in the plan unless Stihl plan on making a few based on that chassis.
I'm in the market for a 90cc + saw and trying to decide what to go for, I plan on doing a little milling, not much just a Larch and an Oak for now but you never know what you will come across in the future so I am torn between a 390XP and a 3120XP, the 90cc can still be used as a felling saw but the 3120 is a little big for general felling although it would be a fine mill saw.
Don't say get both! I have enough for the moment already.

O.A.P

I have a 395xp and can't fault it . I'm not sure how long I have it 8 maybe 10 years and it's not always brought out on the smaller stuff because its heavy. It has two bars 24 and 30 inch and would mill timber no doubt if I had that kind of work for it.
The 3120xp is for milling only I'd say it's just to heavy for anything else.

3120XP, no question about it.

CJhaughey

I happened upon a very good deal on a 390xp so good I couldn't pass it up.
390xp-395xp and 3120xp are now discontinued so not even available new any longer.
No doubt there will be a 59?xp somewhere in the future but for now I may as well get milling and offset the price of the saw somewhat.
I have to get a B&C for it not sure what size to go for, I know milling loses a little width but I'd like to keep it somewhat balanced as well for felling.