Chain Saw Chat

Thepillowman

243bigbang wrote: »

Yes if you move the clutch forward to backwards there is play. That's what the shop told me was the problem. They said there shouldn't be.

Ok you well have to pull clutch, sprocket, oil pump and oil seal to see what the problem is.

243bigbang

Thepillowman wrote: »

Ok you well have to pull clutch, sprocket, oil pump and oil seal to see what the problem is.

Thanks. I'll strip that and get back to ye then.

CJhaughey

A saw of that era will probably need new crank seals anyway, so if the small end has gone then you will need to find out what else has been damaged.
New crank, crank seals, piston/ring kit at the minimum= pricey repair.
Price a Meteor Piston/cylinder kit they are usually reasonable and are decent pistons.
I hope you paid a low price for it because you can easily be into 1/2 the price of a good running saw with parts.

243bigbang

Thepillowman wrote: »

Ok you well have to pull clutch, sprocket, oil pump and oil seal to see what the problem is.

Thanks. I'll strip that and get back to ye then.

Thepillowman

243bigbang wrote: »

Thanks. I'll strip that and get back to ye then.

Cleanliness been the key here before you go ripping. Scrape off anything heavy, blow off everything if you have a compressor. Some paraffin and a small paint brush and a tooth brush will do a lot. Or elbow grease from Mr price I find good. Lot easier do it now rather than later. Should be able to get a workshop manual online to download.

Is it an early or late 254? Serial number will help too.

Heavy handed

Bearings might be the issue if your finding play in the crank. Full strip down if that’s the case which isn’t a bad thing. New gasket kit along with new bearings and new oil seals and you’ve the foundation of a good saw to build off of. Just make sure to vacuum and pressure test the case afterwards

Heavy handed

Heavy handed wrote: »

Bearings might be the issue if your finding play in the crank. Full strip down if that’s the case which isn’t a bad thing. New gasket kit along with new bearings and new oil seals and you’ve the foundation of a good saw to build off of. Just make sure to vacuum and pressure test the case afterwards

And don't order a single part until you have it torn down and inspected.

A buggered crank assembly on a 2 series husky is as good as a write-off if you have to go buying the parts.

Throw up some info on the actual saw you have and even a few pictures and I'll let you know what I reckon. I've had and have a few of these. They're great when they're good, hideously expensive to repair though depending on what's really wrong with them.

Podge201

Any online shop to buy aspen and deliver. Local tool hire is very expensive.

Heavy handed

JayZeus wrote: »

And don't order a single part until you have it torn down and inspected.

A buggered crank assembly on a 2 series husky is as good as a write-off if you have to go buying the parts.

Throw up some info on the actual saw you have and even a few pictures and I'll let you know what I reckon. I've had and have a few of these. They're great when they're good, hideously expensive to repair though depending on what's really wrong with them.

I’ve found L&S engineering in the uk great for parts. I rebuilt my ms880 with oem Stihl parts for half the price compared to buying them here.

Large bottle small glass

Since the thread is active with a few knowledgeable folk, quick query.

I've a 560xp, about 4 years old which is a brilliant saw for most of what I do. 20 acre wood, which I've thinned a lot of myself plus a little firewood production.

I have a 10 yr old ms250 with a 12" bar, which is very reliable but not very powerful. Is there anything that can be done to squeeze a little more power from them? Porting, different carburettor etc?

Large bottle small glass

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

Since the thread is active with a few knowledgeable folk, quick query.

I've a 560xp, about 4 years old which is a brilliant saw for most of what I do. 20 acre wood, which I've thinned a lot of myself plus a little firewood production.

I have a 10 yr old ms250 with a 12" bar, which is very reliable but not very powerful. Is there anything that can be done to squeeze a little more power from them? Porting, different carburettor etc?

The 560XP is my favourite ‘new’ all-round-use saw. Great choice there. Had a 262XP and the 560 is better in every single way as a saw for work.

Honestly, I’d find it hard to match a better small saw than the 242XP with a 560. I made the mistake of buying a 543XP and was sorry within a day or two. Not deserving of the XP badge at all. More fool me.

The MS250’s a good saw, but compared with the XP’s, you’ll always find it wanting unless you sacrifice the reliability by modding it to make it behave like something it’s not.

My advice, sell the 250 and pick up a 242XP. Get a good one and you will definitely not regret it.

Thepillowman

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

Since the thread is active with a few knowledgeable folk, quick query.

I've a 560xp, about 4 years old which is a brilliant saw for most of what I do. 20 acre wood, which I've thinned a lot of myself plus a little firewood production.

I have a 10 yr old ms250 with a 12" bar, which is very reliable but not very powerful. Is there anything that can be done to squeeze a little more power from them? Porting, different carburettor etc?

Not a lot you can do with a ms250 I'd say seeing as it's a clamshell engine, someone more knowledgeable than me may know more. Could open up the muffler a bit, thought a 250 with a 12 inch bar would be lively enough. Have used one with a 16 and didn't count it too bad for what it is ie homeowners saw.

Large bottle small glass

JayZeus wrote: »

The 560XP is my favourite ‘new’ all-round-use saw. Great choice there. Had a 262XP and the 560 is better in every single way as a saw for work.

Honestly, I’d find it hard to match a better small saw than the 242XP with a 560. I made the mistake of buying a 543XP and was sorry within a day or two. Not deserving of the XP badge at all. More fool me.

The MS250’s a good saw, but compared with the XP’s, you’ll always find it wanting unless you sacrifice the reliability by modding it to make it behave like something it’s not.

My advice, sell the 250 and pick up a 242XP. Get a good one and you will definitely not regret it.

Yep 560xp has been brilliant to date.

I'll keep and eye out for a fresh 242xp, I presume they will be like hen's teeth.

I'll give modifying ms250 a skip so; it has been very reliable in 10 years of ownership and a lot of work and I don't want to mess up a saw which has been doing what its designed to do.

I just want a light saw(that I don't need t be too precious with) for work where I very occasionally need a saw like fencing, short inspection paths, lowering stumps etc etc.

Large bottle small glass

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

Yep 560xp has been brilliant to date.

I'll keep and eye out for a fresh 242xp, I presume they will be like hen's teeth.

I'll give modifying ms250 a skip so; it has been very reliable in 10 years of ownership and a lot of work and I don't want to mess up a saw which has been doing what its designed to do.

I just want a light saw(that I don't need t be too precious with) for work where I very occasionally need a saw like fencing, short inspection paths, lowering stumps etc etc.

You’ll find a magnesium alloy bodied Husqvarna 45, 51 or 55 easily. Parts are easy to get and easy to pay for. Good tough saws and the 55 with a 13-15” bar would be ideal for that sort of work IMO. A touch heavier than a 242 but a grand saw for general use around a farm. They sold them as the ‘55 rancher’ in the US. I had one for years and only parted with it when a nice 242 crossed my path. €200 would be about right in very good condition. A 51 would be a fine alternative but I’d pass on a 45 myself. Wait for a good one - there are plenty around. They’re an old model now but were as well designed and built as any of the XP saws. All made in Sweden too, before Electrolux started ‘cost engineering’ on the non-XP models.

243bigbang

Hi lads. I stripped the 254xp down and have nearly everything off. I'm just wondering there is a brass thread on the crankshaft inside the oil pump. How does this come off? Does it stay on till you split the case or does it come before hand. Obviously I'm cautious so I dont damage it as I know how easily brass is damage. I also had a look and the bottom end bearing is definitely damaged and needs replacing. The bearing on the flywheel side seems but if I go ahead and fix the saw I'm gonna replace all bearing while I'm at it. How would you tell if the crank shaft itself is in need of replacing?

Thepillowman

243bigbang wrote: »

Hi lads. I stripped the 254xp down and have nearly everything off. I'm just wondering there is a brass thread on the crankshaft inside the oil pump. How does this come off? Does it stay on till you split the case or does it come before hand. Obviously I'm cautious so I dont damage it as I know how easily brass is damage. I also had a look and the bottom end bearing is definitely damaged and needs replacing. The bearing on the flywheel side seems but if I go ahead and fix the saw I'm gonna replace all bearing while I'm at it. How would you tell if the crank shaft itself is in need of replacing?

It looks as if its just pushed on I wouldn't be sure but most saws I've worked on that's the way they are.
https://youtu.be/geuV97kG0mU
That link may be useful didn't watch it all.

243bigbang

243bigbang wrote: »

Hi lads. I stripped the 254xp down and have nearly everything off. I'm just wondering there is a brass thread on the crankshaft inside the oil pump. How does this come off? Does it stay on till you split the case or does it come before hand. Obviously I'm cautious so I dont damage it as I know how easily brass is damage. I also had a look and the bottom end bearing is definitely damaged and needs replacing. The bearing on the flywheel side seems but if I go ahead and fix the saw I'm gonna replace all bearing while I'm at it. How would you tell if the crank shaft itself is in need of replacing?

Info for you. You might not want to hear all of it, but here goes:

You need a special tool to remove that brass threaded part. That'll be an earlier saw in that case too. Again, give the serial number and I can confirm regarding other parts and alternatives, but the brass worm gear for the 254's from 1988 through 2002 should be 501 86 69-01. You could cobble together a puller to remove the one that's on it now, assuming you can get a new one to fit afterwards.

Now onto the bad news:

The crankshaft assembly is a single piece so it's not possible to separate the conrod for service, so if the main bearing on the rod is sloppy, you'll need a replacement crankshaft assembly. They can't be bought new, so if it's buggered you're looking at a saw to be broken for parts. No aftermarket versions available either, and don't be tempted to try a crank from a 257 or similar (also basically impossible to get anyway) as they're different. If you go searching for the crankshaft assembly it will be 501 87 69-01 and you'll find places online saying they have it in stock, in the US and UK. Don't bother, they don't. They'll take your money, back order it and eventually the order will be cancelled by Husqvarna. I've been through that rigmarole myself and eventually got a hold of someone in Stockholm who confirmed they don't have any, won't have any and that I should consider a new saw.

Best thing to be done there is to check everything else out carefully and if you think it's good, have someone with small engine experience throw an eye over the crank for you and let you know if it's good or bad. Bad, scrap the saw.

There are a few other things also all but impossible to get for the 254's, so some pictures would help if you'd like to know whether or not it's worth spending any time on it at all. You can't get flywheel air shrouds, cylinder covers and baffles, insulators for the adjusters on the Walbro carb screws, handle assemblies, generators, starter cover cases etc. Air filters can be very expensive. The inner chain guide plates have all but disappeared. All that stuff gets tatty, worn out, brittle with the years and the oil and petrol eating at it. Look carefully and decide as you go if something is too far gone to be useful. Brittle rubber bits in the wrong place will let a saw lean out and eat a piston in no time.

A good saw can be worth a bit of effort and expense, but if it needs more than bearings, a gasket kit and carb rebuild, it's just not worth the trouble IMHO. A decent aftermarket piston kit will cost you 100ish on top, and you'd still not be able to change all the age related things best done when pulling the crankcase apart as you just can't get them any more.

A picture (or more) will tell a thousand words though, so throw some up if you can and I'm sure more than just me will give their opinion if you want it.

243bigbang

Hi lads looking to get a big saw round 70cc or above. Iv found a jonsered 2166 for sale and just looking to see if any has experience with it. Is it good saw. Are parts easy got etc.. we have a few saws already at home from 40 to 60cc. So I'm looking to buy something for big timber so I dunno would I be better to go bigger again and not have to be short on power someday. I saw a stihl ms 660 for sale and wondering would this be a better buy? Plenty of power for any tree that might fall. I'm looking to buy second hand as I dont have that much use to justify buy a new big saw! Anything to look out for on these particular models or any model would ye suggest be a better buy!

243bigbang

Hi lads looking to get a big saw round 70cc or above. Iv found a jonsered 2166 for sale and just looking to see if any has experience with it. Is it good saw. Are parts easy got etc.. we have a few saws already at home from 40 to 60cc. So I'm looking to buy something for big timber so I dunno would I be better to go bigger again and not have to be short on power someday. I saw a stihl ms 660 for sale and wondering would this be a better buy? Plenty of power for any tree that might fall. I'm looking to buy second hand as I dont have that much use to justify buy a new big saw! Anything to look out for on these particular models or any model would ye suggest be a better buy!

bassy

would I be right in saying that jonsered are similar to husquavarna as in the were made of similar parts?.

243bigbang

bassy wrote: »

would I be right in saying that jonsered are similar to husquavarna as in the were made of similar parts?.

Yes as far as I know jonsered are made by husqvarna.

243bigbang

bassy wrote: »

would I be right in saying that jonsered are similar to husquavarna as in the were made of similar parts?.

Yes as far as I know jonsered are made by husqvarna.

bassy

243bigbang wrote: »

Yes as far as I know jonsered are made by husqvarna.

taught that alrite,but was,nt fully sure.so a jonsered would be a very good saw along with husky and stihl.

The 2166 is similar to the 365/372, but don't make the mistake of thinking many of the parts are interchangeable as they're not really. Much better availability of parts for the orange saws compared to the red ones when they get a bit older too. As a relatively affordable saw to buy used, repair and maintain, the ginger Husqvarna 365 Special or 372XP is hard to beat. The 365 and its redhead cousin in the 2166 can both allow for an increase in power output if you open out the transfer ports, obviously assuming you match that with a carb kit and adjustment to suit. More messing around than I'd want to do myself for the sake of it but plenty have and there's good info online if that's your kind of thing. If you're not looking to horse the saw though they'll be fine as they are without modifications and all that.

I suppose it depends very much on what kind of bar length and chain you want it to pull and the intended use, felling, milling etc and what you have already that would do the job well. I bought a 576XPG a few years back for harvesting and just can't fault it. The new 572XP's are also getting rave reviews and that's where my money would go if buying new today in the 70cc class. Both of those are still up around a grand for the powerhead and plenty for a large mount bar and 3/8 chains to suit. A lot of money for something that doesn't give a payback over time (if it's casual use and nobody pays for what you're doing) but they're a smashing good saw. Anyway, if your budget will allow it, a clean used 372XP would be my recommendation if you want a 'manual' saw in that size range and there are plenty available if you'd look for one on eBay UK or Germany for example. You'll get a good strong saw to use as it comes for around €500, give or take a ton or so, but have a look and see what you can find there.

If you're looking for a saw for milling though on any sort of ongoing basis you need a bigger saw. 90cc upwards is where you want to be to pull chain on a 24" bar for milling. You can use a smaller powerhead but you'll hate it. Hate it. The jump from a 70cc up to a 90+cc saw makes a big difference. I have an old Solo 694 (90-something cc) for milling but one day I'll change that for a 3120XP for the extra power. Milling will nearly always benefit from more power. Don't underestimate the needs.

CJhaughey

How do you find the Solo? I have a non running 667SP here that I was thinking of bringing back to life, just not sure it will be worth it.
I ran my old Homelite Super XL AO yesterday for a laugh, its so old skool its not funny with no anti-vibe or chainbrake but it just demonstrates how far saws have evolved.
I must throw some pics up of some of the saws I have, nothing big but I don't mill.
Good way to pass the time in these challenging times.

bassy

had my stihl ms-181 out today and it is losing power when trying to cut and it cuts out when I will it to sit when im moving timber.
took the plug out cleaned it etc and checked the carb filter all seem ok.
it seems to go full power for a bit,then its like its dying losing power and cuts out.any ideas lads ?.

CJhaughey

CJhaughey wrote: »

How do you find the Solo? I have a non running 667SP here that I was thinking of bringing back to life, just not sure it will be worth it.
I ran my old Homelite Super XL AO yesterday for a laugh, its so old skool its not funny with no anti-vibe or chainbrake but it just demonstrates how far saws have evolved.
I must throw some pics up of some of the saws I have, nothing big but I don't mill.
Good way to pass the time in these challenging times.

Heavy! Nice power, but comes with weight, noise and a fair bit of vibration. I'm not so keen on handling big saws much these days, but once it's mounted in the Alaskan mill and resting in the cut, I don't mind it too much.

bassy

bassy wrote: »

had my stihl ms-181 out today and it is losing power when trying to cut and it cuts out when I will it to sit when im moving timber.
took the plug out cleaned it etc and checked the carb filter all seem ok.
it seems to go full power for a bit,then its like its dying losing power and cuts out.any ideas lads ?.

any help lads or advice ?.

bassy

bassy wrote: »

any help lads or advice ?.

Does the saw 'race' on you? Like, revving up very quickly. If so, don't run it again until you check for air leaks around the intake. If it's been doing that and now it won't stay running and is losing power, do a compression test. Might have a knackered piston or transferred aluminium onto the cylinder below the intake port. Hopefully nothing like that, but it's common enough and can happen very quickly without realising it if you're not in a position to notice it. Compression test and if that's not right, strip the cylinder out and see what's what.

If compression is good it could be load of things really.

Fuel filter, on the end of the fuel pickup hose end in the tank. Change it.

Blocked vent/breather in the tank, creating a vacuum when the saws been running and starving the carb. You'll know it if you hear a sucking sound when you open the filler cap after it's been running. Easy to do on the husky saws, probably similar on the Stihls.

Carb diaphragm could be perforated or a blocked needle could be the fault if it's constant. Look up the service manual, set it back to the defaults and if no better, consider putting a carb kit and new fuel line into the saw. If you use normal petrol and your own 2 stroke oil to make a mix it could be that the carb needs a kit anyway.

Might also want to check the chain brake band and see if it's dragging on the clutch assembly. That will stall an idling saw and could hold down the power you get to the chain. Weak clutch springs (they age) might be the culprit or it could just need a good clean.

If you need to clean stuff out I recommend the Stihl chainsaw cleaner spray bottle. It's a gel and you need to follow the instructions but it'll remove old sap, resin, burnt oil, everything. Don't leave it sitting on plastics for long. The instructions are easy and important. Money well spent and kinder on the saw seals and parts than kero or petrol, which is silly stuff to be using for that job anyway. I only mention it as I see plenty doing it.

There's other things can cause you trouble but be methodical and try some of those and let us know how you get on first.