Religious Boyfriend

Brown Bomber

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Playing the Jewish card in no way lends credence or sense to your point. Nor would changing the posts words into any specific religion.

Again I do not see the intolerance you are imagining here and attributing to the OP. The OP merely recognizes a difference between her and her partner, and is seeking similar experiences of relationships that share this difference in order to draw from that experience.

Nothing intolerant there.

In fact if I were to fall for a person of the Jewish faith I would certainly recognize the differences between me and this person and I would very much love to have people tell me of their experiences in a similar relationship.

But again I really do not see what you think bringing Judaism into this adds to anything?

Not sure what you are disputing. Could you clarify?

Is it a) That I haven't replaced like-for-like or b) That posing the question "is my boyfriend too Jewish for my relationship to work" is intolerant.

nozzferrahhtoo

I am disputing the whole package you are touting. I am disputing that the OP has displayed any intolerance at all. Therefore I dispute that she needs to learn a "greater" amount of it. And I dispute that you changing her words from "religion" to one specific religion in particular changes anything. Her points would be the same whatever religion you arbitrary decided to submit in place of the words she actually did use.

Again: Recognizing differences between yourself and your partner and seeking to hear the experiences of others who have had similar differences in their relationship.......... is not "intolerant". I can see no reason to suggest it is except perhaps some fetishism for the word itself.

Brown Bomber

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I am disputing the whole package you are touting. I am disputing that the OP has displayed any intolerance at all. Therefore I dispute that she needs to learn a "greater" amount of it. And I dispute that you changing her words from "religion" to one specific religion in particular changes anything. Her points would be the same whatever religion you arbitrary decided to submit in place of the words she actually did use.

Again: Recognizing differences between yourself and your partner and seeking to hear the experiences of others who have had similar differences in their relationship.......... is not "intolerant". I can see no reason to suggest it is except perhaps some fetishism for the word itself.

Okay, I am going to make this really simple. Which of the following statements are false in the context of this thread:

a) That I haven't replaced like-for-like or
b) That posing the question "is my boyfriend too Jewish for my relationship to work" is intolerant.

robindch

Mod:

davidfitz22 wrote: »

Get the F**k over it. [...] why are you here moaning?

No need for that kind of language. Learn how to post with some civility or you'll be turfed out of A+A prontissimo.

nozzferrahhtoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Okay, I am going to make this really simple.

No need to make it simple for me. I am not the one failing to understand the point here. I have however attempted to make it as simple as I can for YOU.

Since you like A/B lists I will put the same post in that format for you and see if this helps you along:

A) Nothing the OP post said is intolerant.

Changing her word "religion" to one specific religion does not add to any intolerance outside the realm of your own head. It merely turns her post more specific.

C) I therefore disagree that the OP needs to learn more tolerance.

D) Recognizing differences between yourself and your partner, whatever the basis of that difference may be, and seeking to hear the experiences of others who have had similar differences in their relationship.......... is not "intolerant".

Perhaps you can focus on which point A-D you are having the most trouble grasping at rather than just flailing ineffectually at my post as a whole again.

flanagain

Sarz91 wrote: »

That's just complete speculation. It really shouldn't matter. I've plenty of friends who are deeply (and I mean deeply, as in going on retreats and going to church* for an entire Sunday) religious but they don't judge me and I don't judge them. If he's as religious as you make out it'd be a fairly sizeable contradiction for him to judge you as forgiveness is a pretty big part of religion.

*I say church not mass as they're protestant.

You wrote that with such a condescending tone but really this is a natural thing for her to question. She never gave any indication she was judging him. She just questioned whether he might grow to judge her for her beliefs over time. If you're asking if a relationship "can work" then you're wondering whether you could potentially spend the rest of your life with someone. Of course she should seek advice on whether the guy who believes in an organisation that makes its living on judging people might grow to judge her for not believing in it.

Take out the political correctness from this thread and I guarantee you most of us wouldn't bode well in relationships where the other person believes in something very different to you and takes it very seriously. I'll be honest and say that I 100% couldn't go out with someone who took religion that seriously. I don't care what other people believe in but if they take it very seriously it well inevitably bring problems in a relationship. Anyone who's been in a long term relationship will tell you that. I don't feel bad about taking that approach and she shouldn't feel bad for wondering if she'll be able to put up with it. 5 years down the road she probably won't.

Being friends with religious people is completely and utterly different to going out with them.

shruikan2553

My girlfriend used to be religious but over time became agnostic. Seeing as it is early in the relationship I wouldn't worry about it. If something happens that makes it a problem then you can worry about sorting it out.

nozzferrahhtoo

davidfitz22 wrote: »

He is entitled to believe what he wants

Have you, anywhere in this thread, seen the OP suggest otherwise??

davidfitz22 wrote: »

it shouldn't effect you.

Why "should" it not? That would entirely depend on how his religiosity, or her lack of it, manifests itself in their lives. I see no method of throwing a blanket "should" assertion at this at all.

davidfitz22 wrote: »

As an atheist it doesn't effect me in the slightest.

That's _you_. Your situation. Your case. Your standards. Your relationship.

There is no way to extrapolate your one single situation with a generalization on the subject as a whole. MANY people, like you, are A-OK with it. Many however, are not.

davidfitz22 wrote: »

why are you here moaning?

I have not seen any "moaning". You are projecting now. What I see is someone entering into a situation who merely wants to draw on the experiences of others to see what possible pitfalls or issues MIGHT arise in the future.

If that is "moaning" to you then you have a suspiciously and worryingly low threshold for what constitutes "moaning".

davidfitz22 wrote: »

do you see him questioning your relationships over silly beliefs?

Does he see her do it? This is an anonymous forum. He likely has no idea she has made this thread. Similarly she might have no idea if he is doing the same thing and for all you know he is communicating with his priest, pastor, or fellow flock for advice on this too. As people have done before.

Brown Bomber

w

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

No need to make it simple for me.

Evidently that isn't the case. I've asked you the same question twice now and you have failed to answer. I know why. I'd wager you do too. Asking "as my boyfriend has done some Jewish things, is my boyfriend too Jewish?" is horribly judgmental and intolerant. If you disagree, say so now.

So in answer to your question it is "A".

Osvaldo

My head is all over the shop; so my coming attempt at constructing and articulating a sentence will be not as good as this one you are reading now. I might even just throw a few words about to save time. Apologies.

Two people. One believes going to heaven. One believes not. Two people together for life; one thinking they will spend eternity together - the other; into the ground. An eternity of nothingness. Grand with me I suppose. But how must one live with complete compatibility like this? It's really tough. I think I'm going into the ground; or cremated - but much of my family think we will spend eternity together.

I live knowing this is it; that when I'm gone - I won't see my loved ones again. They on the other hand think everything will be grand!

A bit like. And forgive me for my poor comparison; suicide bombers - I'm gonna blow up this temple because I'm going to paradise and there will be 70 brides waiting for me. F*** the world.

I suppose everybody is different though.

Naz_st

rozeboosje wrote: »

...while my wife is bringing our daughter up as a Catholic...

... she also encourages her to question and to make up her own mind about things

The problem is that the above two statements don't really go together. Surely if someone is being brought up as Catholic there are quite a few things that they can't make up their own mind about, e.g. that Jesus was born of virgin, died for our sins and was resurrected (just to name a trifling few!). Otherwise they can't realistically retain the adjective "Catholic" in any meaningful sense?

nozzferrahhtoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Evidently that isn't the case. I've asked you the same question twice now and you have failed to answer.

Except it is exactly the case, and your question is answered, you just do not like the answer. You not liking an answer however does not make it go away. Even if you close your eyes, grit your teeth, and dislike it with all your might.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

is horribly judgmental and intolerant. If you disagree, say so now.

Why would I say it now when I have already said it in the last two posts. But if you so badly need me to repeat it then I will.

So Again:

a) There is nothing intolerant in the OPs post that I can see.

b) There is nothing intolerant in recognizing the differences between yourself and your partner and musing out loud, with the help of people who have had similar experiences, what implications these differences may, or may not, have in the future.

You WANTING, regardless of how badly, the term "intolerance" to apply here will simply not magically alter reality to make it so.

Brown Bomber

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Except it is exactly the case, and your question is answered, you just do not like the answer. You not liking an answer however does not make it go away. Even if you close your eyes, grit your teeth, and dislike it with all your might.



Why would I say it now when I have already said it in the last two posts. But if you so badly need me to repeat it then I will.

So Again:

a) There is nothing intolerant in the OPs post that I can see.

b) There is nothing intolerant in recognizing the differences between yourself and your partner and musing out loud, with the help of people who have had similar experiences, what implications these differences may, or may not, have in the future.

You WANTING, regardless of how badly, the term "intolerance" to apply here will simply not magically alter reality to make it so.

Third time you have tried to dance around it. I think it is safe to assume now that you think it is intolerant and prejudiced to view it as a "problem" to be "too Jewish".

Though feel free to correct me directly i.e. "it is NOT intolerant and prejudiced to view it as a "problem" to be "too Jewish".

JapaneseLove

Ya know, if he is religous then thats fine. Every1 to their own as i say. If he isint trying to push his religion onto you then go for it. Nobody should try to push their beliefs onto any1 else unless the want it. Ide be totally against stuff like that.

shruikan2553

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Third time you have tried to dance around it. I think it is safe to assume now that you think it is intolerant and prejudiced to view it as a "problem" to be "too Jewish".

Though feel free to correct me directly i.e. "it is NOT intolerant and prejudiced to view it as a "problem" to be "too Jewish".

You really love intolerance for some reason.

Dades

Brown Bomber - leave out the frankly unhelpful Judaism reference. It's a complete red herring, and even if it was a like-for-like argument the baggage that comes with any perceived intolerance of Jews means it's a potential grenade.

The OP asked are their unknown potential conflicts that might arise in a relationship between a believer and a non-believer. A dubious word-swap doesn't turn this into intolerance.

Yourself and nozz can let this one go.

Red Nissan

xLisaBx wrote: »

I guess yeah. I do respect his beliefs and he does respect mine. I dunno does he judge a little deep inside though

AHa, the kernel.

Yes, he does and it will come out in arguments and you will be deeply offended.

Brown Bomber

JapaneseLove wrote: »

Ya know, if he is religous then thats fine. Every1 to their own as i say. If he isint trying to push his religion onto you then go for it. Nobody should try to push their beliefs onto any1 else unless the want it. Ide be totally against stuff like that.

There is no indication that he is pushing his beliefs in any way whatsoever. All he has done has taken a trip to Lourdes, perhaps with sick relative or a carer with a charity and has put some "small" religious items in his own room. The only problem is in the girlfriends head who irrationally thinks that he is secretly and silently judging her without having any reason to do so.

nozzferrahhtoo

<mod snip>

I'm going to assume you were posting this while I was posting above.
We're done with this particular side-debate.
Dades

Brown Bomber wrote: »

The only problem is in the girlfriends head who irrationally thinks that he is secretly and silently judging her without having any reason to do so.

I get more from the OP than you do it seems. I do not see it just being about her feeling judged. I see her as asking about ANY potential issues this relationship might run into in the future. And a genuinely useful way to explore those concerns is, as the OP has done, to seek out people who have had similar experiences and similar relationships.

It is truly opaque to me what your issue is with her engaging in this genuinely useful method of research and exploration of it.

Dades

Just FYI nozz - I was modding your post while you were editing it.

As you were.

rozeboosje

Red Nissan wrote: »

Yes, he does

I'd love to know by what scientific method you worked that one out.

I've met a number of Christians (my wife included) who take the whole "judge not lest you be judged" very seriously. Muslims, too, by the way. According to them, it is up to their "god" (whatever that is) to do the "judging" and to presume that they, as devout as they may be, are qualified to second-guess what their "god"'s judgment of any other person, including a non-believer, would be is the height of human arrogance.

I've also met some believers who think they are uniquely qualified to tell anybody who does or doesn't want to hear it how their "god" will judge everybody else.

Given that both "flavours" of believer clearly do exist, I think it's highly unlikely that you could validly assert that you know what the OP's boyfriend will or won't do or think, given that all the information you have about him are the couple of sentences that were posted here.

Zubeneschamali

rozeboosje wrote: »

I've met a number of Christians (my wife included) who take the whole "judge not lest you be judged" very seriously.

Yes, even the Pope:

The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.

nozzferrahhtoo

I suppose if we wanted to be pedantic we could point out there is two meanings of "judge".

The first is what you are talking about above I think, the kind of judging this evidence devoid "god" character is purported to do, to find one morally good or bad, innocent or guilty, hell bound or heaven bound, or whatever.

But judge also means simply "form an opinion or conclusion about." and if you want a scientific basis for the words "yes he does" then we need only point out that ALL humans do this. We form almost instant opinions about people the milliseconds we meet them, and we continuously change that judgement by iterations over the entire course of our knowing them.

So yes.... she "judges" him... he "judges" her.... all the time. And nothing is wrong with that.... despite the negative connotations that clearly do come with the verb "to judge".

If your holy text(s) or spiritual leaders of choice are admonishing you, or others, NOT to do this.... then they ask the near impossible. Which is not uncommon in religions, as there are very good psychological reasons to ask the impossible of your adherents on occasion. Much like, for example, the condemnation of thought crime by the Nazerene and others when they admonish people that lusting after them even in your mind is a form of adultery and so forth.

Mr. CooL ICE

I'm an atheist and I've been to Lourdes. I have also been given religious paraphernalia as presents as gifts. Perhaps this guy is the same but isn't as quick as I was to throw the stuff out.

JapaneseLove

Brown Bomber wrote: »

There is no indication that he is pushing his beliefs in any way whatsoever. All he has done has taken a trip to Lourdes, perhaps with sick relative or a carer with a charity and has put some "small" religious items in his own room. The only problem is in the girlfriends head who irrationally thinks that he is secretly and silently judging her without having any reason to do so.

I dont think that she was aiming at that. Also i wasent implying that he is pushing his belifes on any1. Just using a generalisation there. She should fire ahead with him.

Brown Bomber

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

I'm an atheist and I've been to Lourdes. I have also been given religious paraphernalia as presents as gifts. Perhaps this guy is the same but isn't as quick as I was to throw the stuff out.

Exactly. Which is why this girl should be talking to her boyfriend to find out what he actually thinks to see if there is genuinely a problem, it's up to her at that point how she moves forward instead of leaping to conclusions, making herself paranoid about a self-manufactured problem rooted in her own pre-conceptions and personally held stereotypes.

I would say this to you OP, somebody being different is not something to be afraid of, you can embrace it. Me and my wife couldn't be more different - We were born on different continents, have different skin colour, different ethnicity, different first language, I was raised in a city while she was raised in a tiny rural village, she has spiritual beliefs, I don't, she is an only child and her parents are multi-millionaires whereas I come from a large, working-class family and this list can go on and on but the point is being different doesn't have to be a deal breaker as long as their is mutual respect and tolerance.

Brown Bomber

JapaneseLove wrote: »

I dont think that she was aiming at that. Also i wasent implying that he is pushing his belifes on any1. Just using a generalisation there. She should fire ahead with him.

Yeah, I think so too, but she has built up this idea in her head that he is secretly judging her.

xLisaBx wrote: »

I guess yeah. I do respect his beliefs and he does respect mine. I dunno does he judge a little deep inside though

Red Nissan

rozeboosje wrote: »

I've met a number of Christians (my wife included) who take the whole "judge not lest you be judged"

Please save this. I have used as much science as you've just posted. If the OP wants an elaboration I will be pleased to carry on in PM.

Zubeneschamali

Brown Bomber wrote: »

she has spiritual beliefs, I don't

[cough] Pardon??? [splutter]

rozeboosje

Red Nissan wrote: »

Please save this. I have used as much science as you've just posted. If the OP wants an elaboration I will be pleased to carry on in PM.

I don't need science to know that I can't possibly know what every other person is really thinking. The best I can do is take them on their word, and try to interpret things such as their body language and how they behave toward me. But you stated quite categorically in response to the question "does he judge" that "Yes, he does". Feel free to elaborate on that with whatever rationale you thought enabled you to state that with such authority. And please keep it public, we can all do with a laugh.