Gameweek 4 Transfers.

qwabercd

People are cheaping out on defence too much imo.

Lemlin

qwabercd wrote: »

People are cheaping out on defence too much imo.

I don't think it's a bad strategy given CL is about to happen. The likes of City and Chelsea now have 2 players for most defensive positions so rotation is possible.

My plan is to go big on attack now with a view to getting more expensive defenders later in the season.

qwabercd

Lemlin wrote: »

I don't think it's a bad strategy given CL is about to happen. The likes of City and Chelsea now have 2 players for most defensive positions so rotation is possible.

My plan is to go big on attack now with a view to getting more expensive defenders later in the season.

They've 3 players for the 2 attacking positions too. Costa (Remy/Drogba), Falcao (Rooney and RVP) and Aguero (Jovetic/Dzeko) will all arguably be subject to more rotation than defenders.

Falcao may well prove to be a good purchase at 11m (I've always rated him very highly) but personally I'd wait a gameweek or two before getting him in.

As an aside, interesting to see Hazard and Sturridge in very few (if any) teams. I understand that it's probably not the optimal time to have them but I wouldn't be surprised to see either of them in my team if I wildcard in a couple of weeks. Both were standouts last season. I think Hazard will outscore Cesc (definitely so if he's on penalties which we expect). Whether it's worth an 1m remains to be seen.

roryc

Can't see how you can fit the top three in. The team above shows it - Fab, Sterling, Ramsey, Siggy, Costa, Falcao, Ageuro, average defender, budget keeper, sh*t defender, sh*t defender. Bench = sh*t player, sh*t player, sh*t player.

IsMiseMyself

It's another way to play it. The obvious result is that you might sneak a few clean sheets, but more than anything the front fire power is to outweigh the cheap defenders. I like having a balanced team so it's not for me--or at least not right now, but it's a long season still. My expensive backlines did crap last week, apart from De Gea, but then so did Aguero.

Swings and roundabouts!

dahat

roryc wrote: »

Can't see how you can fit the top three in. The team above shows it - Fab, Sterling, Ramsey, Siggy, Costa, Falcao, Ageuro, average defender, budget keeper, sh*t defender, sh*t defender. Bench = sh*t player, sh*t player, sh*t player.

It can be done, I posted a better looking team earlier while not perfect it looked half decent.

Still not going with it though, going to pick two of them.

zarquon

roryc wrote: »

Can't see how you can fit the top three in. The team above shows it - Fab, Sterling, Ramsey, Siggy, Costa, Falcao, Ageuro, average defender, budget keeper, sh*t defender, sh*t defender. Bench = sh*t player, sh*t player, sh*t player.

Not forgetting the price drops that the defense will take especially when 4.0 defenders start getting dropped or rotated. There is great value in the 4.5 to 5.0 defender range so no need to destroy the defense too much.

I think 2 major hitters upfront + a mid price striker is the way to go. Leaves the ability to have a great defense and great midfield, striking a good balance.

Dont be at yourself

I think the issue is that, unlike last year, there aren't many mid-price defenders who represent good value. The guys at Chelsea and Man City are very expensive, and it's difficult to put much faith in the backline of Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham or United. The increased rotation makes defenders from the top teams a risk too. And then the high-scorers from other teams (like Coleman and Baines) are priced far too high.

Last year, there was a lot of success by investing in cheap defenders from Southampton, Hull and Palace. I think a lot of people are trying to replicate that, but by looking at Villa, Newcastle and Burnley as well. And in fairness, there is value in the likes of Hutton, Wisdom, Dummett etc; these were all priced as reserve players, and yet they're getting a lot of minutes in solid sides.

Lemlin

qwabercd wrote: »

They've 3 players for the 2 attacking positions too. Costa (Remy/Drogba), Falcao (Rooney and RVP) and Aguero (Jovetic/Dzeko) will all arguably be subject to more rotation than defenders.

Falcao may well prove to be a good purchase at 11m (I've always rated him very highly) but personally I'd wait a gameweek or two before getting him in.

It's quite clear who the top attacking players are at City and Chelsea though. United remains to be seen but I can't see Falcao sitting on the bench.

A defensive player also needs at least 60 minutes for a good chance of a return. An attacking player can score well in a half hour to 45 minutes even. Aguero has scored better in two bit part games than he did in a full 90 minute game!

qwabercd

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I think the issue is that, unlike last year, there aren't many mid-price defenders who represent good value. The guys at Chelsea and Man City are very expensive, and it's difficult to put much faith in the backline of Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham or United. The increased rotation makes defenders from the top teams a risk too. And then the high-scorers from other teams (like Coleman and Baines) are priced far too high.

Last year, there was a lot of success by investing in cheap defenders from Southampton, Hull and Palace. I think a lot of people are trying to replicate that, but by looking at Villa, Newcastle and Burnley as well. And in fairness, there is value in the likes of Hutton, Wisdom, Dummett etc; these were all priced as reserve players, and yet they're getting a lot of minutes in solid sides.

Hutton - Wouldn't be surprised to see Villa fail to keep a cleansheet between GW5 and GW11
Dummett - Seems to have been dropped
Wisdom - Expect him to lose his place when WBA are at full strength

Which kinda hammers home my point really. I've been burned so many times over the years by 4m defenders to know they simply cannot be relied upon.

I'd agree that the more expensive defenders maybe aren't as appealing this year, but 3 weeks is still a very small sample. Remember what happened last year, when people rushed to get in expensive defenders. That didn't work out.

There is still some good value in the 4.5-5m range and personally I think you need one defender you can depend upon. Jones at 5.5 is a good option, United not what they were but should improve, have no CL and Jones seems to be a BP magnet). Azpilcueta another good choice, will get rotated the odd game no doubt but nearly every player in the top teams will. People are getting rid of Debuchy but I still think arsenal will keep a decent amount of cleansheets and he'll pop up with some attacking returns.

Having 1/2 of them is ok, but some of the teams posted here have up to 4 4m defenders. To me that is simply a poor long term strategy that is unlikely to succeed over the course of the season. At the end of the day, you still have to play 3 defenders each week. Having to waste transfers week on week to get rid of the next 4m defender who loses his place is very costly as transfers are at a price as we all know.

qwabercd

Lemlin wrote: »

A defensive player also needs at least 60 minutes for a good chance of a return. An attacking player can score well in a half hour to 45 minutes even. Aguero has scored better in two bit part games than he did in a full 90 minute game!

Yeah I was mulling about that earlier. In one sense you could argue that at least with the defender, if he's benched you'll have a sub come in for 90 minutes (not often a defender will come off the bench IRL) whereas if the striker is on the bench there's a good chance he'll come on for a one pointer. However in the case of Aguero he rarely seems to come on for a one pointer! Also strikers more likely to get subbed off against weaker teams when they're winning (although they've probably racked up some points at this stage). Agreed on balance that the benefits outweight the negatives for attackers here.

I just think that sacrificing one of the big hitters (e.g Falcao to Adebayor or Sterling to Zaha or someone in the 6m range) will allow you to do more with your defense generating a greater overall return. That's based on nothing but my own opinion and it's obviously a far from clear cut decision.

zarquon

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

And in fairness, there is value in the likes of Hutton, Wisdom, Dummett etc; these were all priced as reserve players, and yet they're getting a lot of minutes in solid sides.

Wisdom and Dummett are not first choice. Gamboa is expected to replace Wisdom once he's fit and Dummett will be replaced by Santon and is currently a rotation risk with Haidara so he's not even nailed on 2nd choice. These two will drop in value to a point where it won't be possible to replace with another 4.0/4.1 playing defender.

There are questions marks too as to whether Hutton will retain his place long term as Lowton was expected to be first choice this season

4.0 defenders and 4.5 midfielders can be a false economy. Once they stop getting full playing time their value plummets and they destroy team value and cash reserves, removing the ability to replace with better options directly without downgrading elsewhere in the team first.

Iused2likebusts

Ive been in the all out attack strategy camp from the start and think its the way to go. People went with chelsea, arsenal and utd defenders for their great fixtures and clean sheets. 3 games in you have 2 C.S from 9 games. Contrast that with Villa, Burnley and Qpr you have 4 C.S from 9 games. Ill continue to take my chances with a cheap defence to have 7 big guns in attack.
Its very easy to have 3 of falcao, costa, aguero, sturridge and still have a decent team with defenders in with a reasonable chance of clean sheets.

q2ice

There is a lot of talk about sacrificing defense for the big 3.
It is possible to have
3 good defenders plus 2 rotating cheapies
3 good midfielders plus 2 rotating cheapies
3 good forwards (aguero, costa, falcao)

Lemlin

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Ive been in the all out attack strategy camp from the start and think its the way to go. People went with chelsea, arsenal and utd defenders for their great fixtures and clean sheets. 3 games in you have 2 C.S from 9 games. Contrast that with Villa, Burnley and Qpr you have 4 C.S from 9 games. Ill continue to take my chances with a cheap defence to have 7 big guns in attack.
Its very easy to have 3 of falcao, costa, aguero, sturridge and still have a decent team with defenders in with a reasonable chance of clean sheets.

Taylor at Swansea, Coloccini at Newcastle, PvA at Sunderland, Ferdinand at QPR and Wilson at Stoke. All 4.5 and all decent options.

4 of the top 5 managers in the FFS HoF have keepers 4.5 or under. Only 1 has De Gea.

I currently have PvA, Taylor and then 3 4 million cheapies - Moore, Wisdom and Dummett.

I actually think Moore will score quite well when Leicester's difficult run is over.

Iused2likebusts

Lemlin wrote: »

Taylor at Swansea, Coloccini at Newcastle, PvA at Sunderland, Ferdinand at QPR and Wilson at Stoke. All 4.5 and all decent options.

4 of the top 5 managers in the FFS HoF have keepers 4.5 or under. Only 1 has De Gea.

I currently have PvA, Taylor and then 3 4 million cheapies - Moore, Wisdom and Dummett.

I actually think Moore will score quite well when Leicester's difficult run is over.

5 cheapies that play pick 3. 22 million on 5 defenders is the most Ill spend for the foresseable future. Burnley and Palace have some decent fixtures coming up now. Ive my eye on Duff or shackell, martin kelly and wilson as my dummett replacement.

Ace2007

How forward does Matic get in most games? He seems to be the only Chelsea player to get full 90 mins in each of the 3 opening games

Also, who is Manquillo and will he keep his place for Liverpool?

The whole thing about the top 3 and having other crap players just shows that some people haven't really experimented with different combinations, If you drop Fab for example you can have 2 keepers and 5 defenders for 33m - all of which play 90 mins - and for example include united/city defenders.

Midfield - Ramsey, Sterling, Siggy, boyd, and someone like Chadli
striker - top 3

Then if one of top 3 strikers gets injured can easily drop to welbeck and upgrad boyd/chadli to Fab

Lemlin

roryc wrote: »

Can't see how you can fit the top three in. The team above shows it - Fab, Sterling, Ramsey, Siggy, Costa, Falcao, Ageuro, average defender, budget keeper, sh*t defender, sh*t defender. Bench = sh*t player, sh*t player, sh*t player.

You could drop Sterling, Fab or Ramsey for a player a million cheaper like Lamela. Or even someone 2 mil cheaper like De Jong if he starts firing.

That frees up another million or so for defence.

As it is, you can afford at least two 4.5 mil options and there are good players available at that price. There are also plenty of half decent keepers available at 4.5, Krul probably being the best.

I've no problem with having a bench of **** players once they get a point or two when called upon on the odd occasion. It also saves the frustration of leaving points on the bench.

roryc

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Its very easy to have 3 of falcao, costa, aguero, sturridge and still have a decent team with defenders in with a reasonable chance of clean sheets.

Show me a team with Costa, Aguero and Sturridge in it, and I'll show you the flaws.

Lemlin

roryc wrote: »

Show me a team with Costa, Aguero and Sturridge in it, and I'll show you the flaws.

I don't get your point tbh.

Could it not be argued that any team will have flaws? That's the point of the 100 million budget. You can't pick the ideal team that you want. It's about making the best of the budget that you can.

Pick a team without the three above and it's probably just as easy to pick flaws in it. No team will be perfect.

Benimar

I really don't see the problem with leaving points on the bench. With a strong squad that is going to happen, its all about picking the best XI for any given GW. Thats where the 'management' comes in, having to choose who to start out of your 15.

Sometimes I'll get it wrong (Siggy on the bench GW1!) but thems the breaks. It was the correct call at the time as nobody knew how god-awful Man U would be.

Having a weak bench is a recipe for disaster as far as I'm concerned. It can lead to 'forced' transfers in the sense that if one of your starting XI is a doubt, there is pressure to make a transfer.

Costa last weekend was a case in point. There was many reasons why people transferred him out for Jovatic, but I'd be confident some did it as their bench couldn't cover if Costa was ruled out.

Having a sub or two capable of getting CS points or a goal/assist means less pressure to make transfers for a short term injury (In Costas case a 24 hour injury!)

Shedite27

qwabercd wrote: »

Which kinda hammers home my point really. I've been burned so many times over the years by 4m defenders to know they simply cannot be relied upon.

I don't for a second advocate having 5*4m defeinders but last season you could get Joel Ward and James Chester for under 8m in January. They served me very well the second half of the season.

My current defence is Dier (due to go to Debuchy next week), Jones, Taylor, Wisdom, Moore.

2 that will start most games, then of the other 3 there's always one with a nice fixture. And if called upon, you'd hope one of the other two will at least get ya 2pts.

who_ru

thinking of the following. some obvious ommissions though - sterling, ballotelli being 2.

De Gea (Myhill)

Bartley Taylor N, Shawcross, Clyne, Moore

Hendo, Di Maria, Hazard, Ramsey, Zaha (think he'll have a good season at palace)

Falcao, Ulloa, Costa



Worries: Defence - i had azpillicueta and koscienly in, but azpi is bound to be rotated a lot with luiz and Koscienly has a horrible run of fixtures coming up. shawcross is solid with nice fixtures, clyne the same, the other 3 though are weakish. i don't like the idea of not having an arsenal or chelsea defender. i might not go with the above.

any thoughs?

oh think Falcao will do very well. similar in stature to aguero without the distraction of CL games. i had mata and rooney but will switch to di maria and falcao.

FutureGuy

roryc wrote: »

Show me a team with Costa, Aguero and Sturridge in it, and I'll show you the flaws.

Every team will have some flaws in it to some degree but I do think you are realy sacrifing a good bit by getting those three strikers. Whether the sacrifice is worth it or not is the decision of the manager, and that's what makes it the game that it is.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Quoted for clarity.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

who_ru wrote: »

thinking of the following. some obvious ommissions though - sterling, ballotelli being 2.

De Gea (Myhill)

Bartley Taylor N, Shawcross, Clyne, Moore

Hendo, Di Maria, Hazard, Ramsey, Zaha (think he'll have a good season at palace)

Falcao, Ulloa, Costa



Worries: Defence - i had azpillicueta and koscienly in, but azpi is bound to be rotated a lot with luiz and Koscienly has a horrible run of fixtures coming up. shawcross is solid with nice fixtures, clyne the same, the other 3 though are weakish. i don't like the idea of not having an arsenal or chelsea defender. i might not go with the above.

any thoughs?

oh think Falcao will do very well. similar in stature to aguero without the distraction of CL games. i had mata and rooney but will switch to di maria and falcao.

Maybe you could look at getting Cortouis in for Chelsea? Lets you into the Chelsea defense who I fancy to keep more cleanies than United. Utds defense is going to be shambolic this season I reckon so I'd steer clear. I like the look of Ulloa, there's goals in him and aside from Naismith he's the best budget option of the strikers imo. No Siggy is another obvious difference to the standard teams that seem to be emerging. If the Henderbus can preform well that could be a nice differential.

boccy23

who_ru wrote: »

thinking of the following. some obvious ommissions though - sterling, ballotelli being 2.

De Gea (Myhill)

Bartley Taylor N, Shawcross, Clyne, Moore

Hendo, Di Maria, Hazard, Ramsey, Zaha (think he'll have a good season at palace)

Falcao, Ulloa, Costa



Worries: Defence - i had azpillicueta and koscienly in, but azpi is bound to be rotated a lot with luiz and Koscienly has a horrible run of fixtures coming up. shawcross is solid with nice fixtures, clyne the same, the other 3 though are weakish. i don't like the idea of not having an arsenal or chelsea defender. i might not go with the above.

any thoughs?

oh think Falcao will do very well. similar in stature to aguero without the distraction of CL games. i had mata and rooney but will switch to di maria and falcao.

How about Debucchy instead of Kos? Gets forward more, chance of a goal, still an Arsenal defender, less chance of rotation and cheaper. 5.5 versus 6.1.

Gaillimh1976

Ace2007 wrote: »

Also, who is Manquillo and will he keep his place for Liverpool?

Spanish right back. Will probably rotate with Glen Johnson when both fit, but GJ injured at the moment.

Also, Flanagan who played LB most of last season is really a RB and is due back from injury soon.

Iused2likebusts

roryc wrote: »

Show me a team with Costa, Aguero and Sturridge in it, and I'll show you the flaws.

Krul elliot
Duff Moore Taylor Hutton Wilson
De Jong siggy ramsey fabregas marney
aguero costa falcao

The back 5 looks weak but for the next 5 gws you have these fixtures.
GW 4 Pal A Leic H Sto A
GW5 Sou H Sun H QPR A
GW6 Pal A New H Sun A
GW7 Bur H New H Leic A
GW 8 Wham H Swa H Sto A.
Its realistic to expect 5 C.S. from those 15 games.

This isnt my team and Im not sure on the big front 3 strategy yet as Ill probably give ade a few weeks. But what I am sure on is 5 cheap rotating defenders and Krul and elliot and a 4.5 midfielder. Ill be spending max 35 million on those 8 players leaving me with the 6 millon I got siggy for which results in 59 million minimum for a combination of 6 attacking players.
The fact that we can pick 5 defenders and only need to play 3 makes this strategy a no brainer for me up till the jan wildcard when Ill have more money for my back line.

The Wild Bunch

Jovetic to Welbeck a good move?