Is it self defeatist to say that some men are meant to be alone??‏

Wibbs

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Can I ask a question guys, is dating generally speaking easier for women than it is for men? Or is that just a stereotype?

I think it depends on a few factors T. As Daveysil15 said men generally do the approaching so being socially reticent is much less an issue for women and even though the ladies make up half the population most men seem to think women are rare in some ways. This makes it much more a sellers market in favour of women as far as dating goes.

However and it's a big however, men are more visually biased as a general rule and I have found that the more options a man has the more visually biased he tends to be. So while average or above average women have it much easier, those women who may be outside the cultural "ideal" have it harder. Even so they will still get approached sooner or later. A woman can get away with being socially reticent/"immature" a lot easier than a man can for a start. I've seen men get in line to get with women who were good looking but obviously "odd", but the looks won out. I've seen that far less with women(which IMH is more logical). They're more likely to spot and avoid those men who they and the group see as "odd". Plus a woman's age has a much bigger influence on her chances. A 25 year old woman has many more options than the same woman at 35 and a magnitude more than the same woman at 45. Whereas in men you could nearly reverse that graph.

It's just my opinion I grant you, but IMHO men overall have it easier, IF they realise it. As a man you have more attraction options and most of all you have more options to increase your dating "value". A man who is the "life and soul" has more options than a woman who is. A man who is worth a few bob adds more value than a woman who is. A man's age is a lot less of an issue. An average 35 year old guy, who is content and sorted in his life and is genuinely open to a relationship has way more options than if he was a 35 year old woman in the same position. Ask a 35 year old woman and it's likely she'll tell you that or something similar. A well sorted OK looking 40 year old man has way more options than a well sorted 40 year old woman as a general rule.

I've experienced that in my own life. On looks I have certainly gotten above my paygrade. I mean that objectively too. You hear some men say "oh she's outa my league", but in my experience in the majority of cases objective observers wouldn't agree. How did I do it in those examples? Basically I was offering more fun and emotional stability and human connection than what any "competitors" were offering at the time. Most of all I Didn't Give A Feck(tm). Pedestals are for statues, not another human being. If I met a woman who was good looking I didn't make that one aspect of her mean much. My willie might have, but the rest of me didn't and if she gave off even the sniff of being a pain in the arse then walk away. There are billions of women in the world and there are a lot more who aren't a pain in the arse regardless of how they look. Why settle for a pain who has a pretty face/bum/legs/whatever? You will get tired of looking at that. Personality is everything.

TL;DR? A stable, well adjusted, socially and emotionally aware and open guy at 35 has a lot more choices than he may think.

I take its meant to be easier for women in online dating but for dating just generally is it?

Online dating because it's more visually driven kinda evens out the wider world stuff. As I said on another thread if a bloke wants to get a glimpse of being judged visually(looks, height, weight) in a way that can echo many women's experiences in real life, then join up to online dating and see and feel it for yourself.

paddy1990

lets get real here

if we bump this thread in 1 year, many of the guys currently struggling will still be struggling.

If we look at the behaviour of very attractive women, we can see that they go for the same type of guy. Thus you get lots of women going for a small percentage of guys. Those guys live in abundance, meanwhile the guys at the lower end are fighting for scraps. You'll see a lot of these guys on online dating sites looking for any scraps they can get. If you actually have to approach women, then you are already in the lower rung and will struggle.

The fact of the matter is, the dating market is a buyers market for women. The ones who dispute this, are just not attractive enough to get the guys they want. No good looking girl ever struggles to get a guy.

This video should be watched and studied by every man.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krsNcFQwsbc

paddy1990

Wibbs wrote: »

I think it depends on a few factors T. As Daveysil15 said men generally do the approaching so being socially reticent is much less an issue for women and even though the ladies make up half the population most men seem to think women are rare in some ways. This makes it much more a sellers market in favour of women as far as dating goes.

However and it's a big however, men are more visually biased as a general rule and I have found that the more options a man has the more visually biased he tends to be. So while average or above average women have it much easier, those women who may be outside the cultural "ideal" have it harder. Even so they will still get approached sooner or later. A woman can get away with being socially reticent/"immature" a lot easier than a man can for a start. I've seen men get in line to get with women who were good looking but obviously "odd", but the looks won out. I've seen that far less with women(which IMH is more logical). They're more likely to spot and avoid those men who they and the group see as "odd". Plus a woman's age has a much bigger influence on her chances. A 25 year old woman has many more options than the same woman at 35 and a magnitude more than the same woman at 45. Whereas in men you could nearly reverse that graph.

It's just my opinion I grant you, but IMHO men overall have it easier, IF they realise it. As a man you have more attraction options and most of all you have more options to increase your dating "value". A man who is the "life and soul" has more options than a woman who is. A man who is worth a few bob adds more value than a woman who is. A man's age is a lot less of an issue. An average 35 year old guy, who is content and sorted in his life and is genuinely open to a relationship has way more options than if he was a 35 year old woman in the same position. Ask a 35 year old woman and it's likely she'll tell you that or something similar. A well sorted OK looking 40 year old man has way more options than a well sorted 40 year old woman as a general rule.

I've experienced that in my own life. On looks I have certainly gotten above my paygrade. I mean that objectively too. You hear some men say "oh she's outa my league", but in my experience in the majority of cases objective observers wouldn't agree. How did I do it in those examples? Basically I was offering more fun and emotional stability and human connection than what any "competitors" were offering at the time. Most of all I Didn't Give A Feck(tm). Pedestals are for statues, not another human being. If I met a woman who was good looking I didn't make that one aspect of her mean much. My willie might have, but the rest of me didn't and if she gave off even the sniff of being a pain in the arse then walk away. There are billions of women in the world and there are a lot more who aren't a pain in the arse regardless of how they look. Why settle for a pain who has a pretty face/bum/legs/whatever? You will get tired of looking at that. Personality is everything.

TL;DR? A stable, well adjusted, socially and emotionally aware and open guy at 35 has a lot more choices than he may think.

Online dating because it's more visually driven kinda evens out the wider world stuff. As I said on another thread if a bloke wants to get a glimpse of being judged visually(looks, height, weight) in a way that can echo many women's experiences in real life, then join up to online dating and see and feel it for yourself.

Strongly disagree with the bulk of your post.

Women care about looks just as much as men generally. Women are just as shallow as men and to believe differently is just ridiculous. Look around and you'll see A LOT of men dating down. I was in town earlier and the amount of in shape guys with chubby girls was amazing.

Age is a huge factor for men than it is for women. Try picking up a 20 year old girl if you're 35. Meanwhile set up a dating profile with an average 35 year old womans pictures online and see how many 20 year old guys she can get (hint - alot)

Heres another one, set up a dating profile online of a girl in a WHEELCHAIR and see how many guys are still willing to date her and then do the same for a man in a wheelchair.

I have done all of these experiments. Social media has blown up the egos of your average woman. It's hard not to think you are hot stuff when you're getting 50+ likes per photo and having guys chase you every day. All attractive women have to do these days is take out their smartphones for a nice ego/validation boost.

The OP wouldn't be in his position if he looked like a male model. As it is now, he has little chance. He is too far behind. I'm not saying it's completely hopeless but he needs to get real and then start putting the work in, fairly sharpish.

pwurple

Paddy1990, it really is all about attitude. Bitterness is unattractive.

It also helps immensely if you view women as people rather than commodities.

Export

paddy1990 wrote: »

Strongly disagree with the bulk of your post.

Women care about looks just as much as men generally. Women are just as shallow as men and to believe differently is just ridiculous. Look around and you'll see A LOT of men dating down. I was in town earlier and the amount of in shape guys with chubby girls was amazing.

Age is a huge factor for men than it is for women. Try picking up a 20 year old girl if you're 35. Meanwhile set up a dating profile with an average 35 year old womans pictures online and see how many 20 year old guys she can get (hint - alot)

Heres another one, set up a dating profile online of a girl in a WHEELCHAIR and see how many guys are still willing to date her and then do the same for a man in a wheelchair.

I have done all of these experiments. Social media has blown up the egos of your average woman. It's hard not to think you are hot stuff when you're getting 50+ likes per photo and having guys chase you every day. All attractive women have to do these days is take out their smartphones for a nice ego/validation boost.

The OP wouldn't be in his position if he looked like a male model. As it is now, he has little chance. He is too far behind. I'm not saying it's completely hopeless but he needs to get real and then start putting the work in, fairly sharpish.

Be the jaysis!

diveout

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Can I ask a question guys, is dating generally speaking easier for women than it is for men? Or is that just a stereotype?

I take its meant to be easier for women in online dating but for dating just generally is it?

I can't figure out why that would be if that is the case. I mean in terms of the population they're in equal numbers pretty much, in fact according to the 2011 census for men vs woman in the age group 25-44 was 717,055 and 733,085 respectively (so actually slightly more women). Regardless its pretty much 50:50, I can't understand why so many men say dating's far harder for men than it is women, its too competitive, women have it easy etc. There's got to be as many single women as there are men, but many say being a single man is much more common!

Unless there are a lot of polygamists about :P I can't figure mathematically why that would be. Maybe somebody could give me an explanation why is supposedly harder?

Female here. I think you need to stop thinking in general big abstractions about men and women, you are just enforcing the whole otherness of the opposite sex. Everyone is vulnerable, everyone cocks it up, everyone has masks. And alot of insecurties about what other people think of you are pure fantasy because rationally speaking you cannot have any idea of what people think of you. It's all your imagination.

Dating takes risks for both you and the other person. That is just how it is. All this advise about joining social groups.... that is not for everyone. If you are introverted, that will absolute you exhaust you and you will have nothing to give.

A lot of it is about being comfortable in your own skin, because then the other person can be comfortable. Anxiety is the most contagious feeling there is, if you bring that into a room, it will spread and then people, men or women don't like to be around that.

People wont remember anything about you except how you made them feel. If you make them feel good they will want more time with you.

Wibbs

paddy1990 wrote: »

Women care about looks just as much as men generally.

Yep they do indeed(The online dating world massively exaggerates this). When all other factors are taken out of the equation. Since the video you posted dealt with extremes let's take one. Donald Trump has a head like melon with a wig nailed on and he's with an ex model(and he's gone through models like Vogue). There are plenty of examples of that kinda thing at far less extreme everyday levels too. In general looks in a woman as a factor is a higher for men. If in the morning you invented the next Twitter your dating options would go through the roof, if a woman did it would affect her dating options a lot less.

Look around and you'll see A LOT of men dating down. I was in town earlier and the amount of in shape guys with chubby girls was amazing.

Yet by your reckoning these good looking men should be with better looking women? Why aren't they? Maybe they like rounder women(which seems to be a cultural thing here anyway)? Maybe they're boring, average not a lot going on type men and their looks are their main factor? Maybe, just maybe they happened to click, mad I know. If you walk around any big city you will also see men "dating up". How are they doing it?

Age is a huge factor for men than it is for women. Try picking up a 20 year old girl if you're 35.

Have done and was in a longtermer with a 26 year old at 40. My smallest age gap in anything like a longtermer was 8 years. Looks wise I'm decidedly average. 5'10, shortsighted, a butchers apron has more meat on it and nothing to write home about in general, certainly not photogenic. I wouldn't look or act my age, but that's about it and I've "dated up" pretty much all my adult life. I know four men off the top of my head(a couple on Boards) running similar enough age gaps(inc a marriage) and the women in question are all attractive women in looks and sound to boot and if the guys are reading this they wouldn't mind me saying none of them look like George Clooney, nor have his money.

Meanwhile set up a dating profile with an average 35 year old womans pictures online and see how many 20 year old guys she can get (hint - alot)

Heres another one, set up a dating profile online of a girl in a WHEELCHAIR and see how many guys are still willing to date her and then do the same for a man in a wheelchair.

As I've said online dating is a different landscape. It massively exaggerates looks as a factor, both in men and women, but skews it in favour of women much more. There are more men doing online dating for a start so more competition. I'm quite certain that if my dating experience had been restricted to online I'd have been left sucking my thumb the last twenty years, getting more rejected and dejected by the day.

All attractive women have to do these days is take out their smartphones for a nice ego/validation boost.

[emphasis mine]. Sure attractive women who look good in photos will get much more attention from a gender biased online dating environment. However if you look at all profiles of women the less photogenic will get a lot less attention. Check out any online dating forum and read the women's replies. There are a lot of ladies getting little enough attention and what attention they do get is from weirdoes, or guys just looking for the ride. It depends entirely on one's worldview.

The OP wouldn't be in his position if he looked like a male model.

Really? The best looking man I've personally known got attention alright, but most of it wasn't great and as you might put it with one exception he "dated down" all his life.

As it is now, he has little chance. He is too far behind.

A load o me bollocks. The chap is still in his 20's FFS. I didn't get really going until I passed thirty. He's clearly very bright, he's got his career on the right track, by his own account(and I'd believe him) he's not that hard on the eye and contrary to what he seems to believe he's not a midget either. With a little effort on his part - and he's already laid the heavy groundwork - he'll begin to feel more himself in social situations and any relationship(s) will be more his choice than "luck". I'll lay a bet here now that in 5 years time he'll be in a very different position and a more content one.

diveout wrote:

People wont remember anything about you except how you made them feel. If you make them feel good they will want more time with you.

That right there is pure gold.

Wibbs

diveout wrote: »

People wont remember anything about you except how you made them feel. If you make them feel good they will want more time with you.

Had to quote this again. Nail on the head.

paddy1990

LOL at completely disregarding the video.

Of course if I gained millions overnight I could have the type of women Donald Trump gets.

The facts are that looks, money and status matter immensely and anyone who says otherwise is simply displaying a lack of knowledge or awareness. Self delusion is healthy and keeps people going so its understandable.

You don't see the Rosanna Davisons or Georgia Salpas with nerds. These types of HOT girls (fame or no fame) are really with a specific type of guy that we can all visualize.

The remainder of men are really fighting for average women im afraid. Online dating is a very good benchmark to see how things work.

I've got some great friends who are really nice guys but they are in the OPs position due to small height/ugliness. Nothing they can do really. I have explained to them that it's not their fault and not to start thinking something is wrong with THEM, which is what people like you and others like to propagate. In fact, my mates are hilarious guys and very cool. They are just short and butt ugly and hence get treated like garbage when they try to chat up women. What they need to do is get realistic about their level and go for girls that are ugly/fat themselves, and thankfully that is what they are doing. Hopefully they will get a bit of luck.

On the flip side I can be an absolute c*nt to girls and still have them throw themselves at me. All because I am very good looking. It's quite sad really. Genetic determination I believe it's called.

I don't even blame women for doing what comes naturally.

And I'll take any bet that the OP is in the same situation in 5 years.

ancapailldorcha

I still can't get my head around the idea that men in their 30s who lack serious flaws have it easier than women. A mate of mine is in his early 30s and he's said that things have gotten a lot easier for him in the last few years.

I don't know why but I fail to see the attraction behind people like Georgia Salpa, Cheryl Cole, etc.. I just prefer the idea of dating someone for a while who has interests, hobbies and aspirations as opposed to some model just for bragging rights.

Mike747

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I still can't get my head around the idea that men in their 30s who lack serious flaws have it easier than women. A mate of mine is in his early 30s and he's said that things have gotten a lot easier for him in the last few years.

I don't know why but I fail to see the attraction behind people like Georgia Salpa, Cheryl Cole, etc.. I just prefer the idea of dating someone for a while who has interests, hobbies and aspirations as opposed to some model just for bragging rights.

A friend of mine is in his early 40s and regularly gets girls half his age. He's told me many young girls like older men. Makes sense. Many male sex symbols are older whereas there are no older female sex symbols. My opinion is women peak when they're about 23 and then its all downhill. Men on the other hand only start to come into their prime in their late twenties.

paddy1990

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I still can't get my head around the idea that men in their 30s who lack serious flaws have it easier than women. A mate of mine is in his early 30s and he's said that things have gotten a lot easier for him in the last few years.

I don't know why but I fail to see the attraction behind people like Georgia Salpa, Cheryl Cole, etc.. I just prefer the idea of dating someone for a while who has interests, hobbies and aspirations as opposed to some model just for bragging rights.

Men in their 30s having it easier is a myth. You really have to take EVERYTHING said by people (including myself) on this subject with a grain of salt as we are only speaking from our own experiences and what we have seen/heard from others. People do tend to be very delusional on this subject though. Ask the average 20 year old college student if she wants a 35 year old bloke and she'll laugh, meanwhile you'll get lots of guys with thousands of posts on internet forums who say differently. So you have to be selective in who you believe.

As for really attractive women, well they are in fact people as well and are actually really nice people too. It also helps that they are attractive of course. They are just as shallow as men though, and you will need a certain level of looks, money and status (LMS) in order to be seen as a viable sexual option by them.

ancapailldorcha

Mike747 wrote: »

A friend of mine is in his early 40s and regularly gets girls half his age. He's told me many young girls like older men. Makes sense. Many male sex symbols are older whereas there are no older female sex symbols. My opinion is women peak when they're about 23 and then its all downhill. Men on the other hand only start to come into their prime in their late twenties.

It must be to do with maturity then. The main reason why women in their mid-thirties and beyond have fewer options is down to the ability to have children would be my guess.

paddy1990 wrote: »

Men in their 30s having it easier is a myth. You really have to take EVERYTHING said by people (including myself) on this subject with a grain of salt as we are only speaking from our own experiences and what we have seen/heard from others. People do tend to be very delusional on this subject though. Ask the average 20 year old college student if she wants a 35 year old bloke and she'll laugh, meanwhile you'll get lots of guys with thousands of posts on internet forums who say differently. So you have to be selective in who you believe.

As for really attractive women, well they are in fact people as well and are actually really nice people too. It also helps that they are attractive of course. They are just as shallow as men though, and you will need a certain level of looks, money and status (LMS) in order to be seen as a viable sexual option by them.

There are lot of very attractive women paired with "lesser" men. There was a thread about that very subject somewhere on Boards at one stage. You'd probably be right regarding very casual relationships or one night stands but for more long term relationships then there's a lot more than looks involved. Your friends' problems probably stem from low self-esteem and confidence as opposed to their looks. Alternatively, if they're chancing their arm in nightclubs then they've picked the second most superficial place to attract women. I'd say online dating is the worst but that's just my opinion.

paddy1990

Mike747 wrote: »

A friend of mine is in his early 40s and regularly gets girls half his age. He's told me many young girls like older men. Makes sense. Many male sex symbols are older whereas there are no older female sex symbols. My opinion is women peak when they're about 23 and then its all downhill. Men on the other hand only start to come into their prime in their late twenties.

He's probably the kind of guy who never had a problem getting women thoughout his teens and 20s and into his 30s. It's a different ballgame for a virgin in his 30s. The virgin is so far behind that its almost insurmountable I'm afraid. Any potential partner will have had about 15 years of sex/relationships more than him.

The guys in their early 40s doing well have some kind of niche appeal to a certain demographic of young girls. This is actually the best way to go. One of the biggest ladies men I know is in his 40s - he manages a well known nightclub in the City Centre.

ancapailldorcha

paddy1990 wrote: »

The guys in their early 40s doing well have some kind of niche appeal to a certain demographic of young girls. This is actually the best way to go. One of the biggest ladies men I know is in his 40s - he manages a well known nightclub in the City Centre.

Didn't you just saw above that a 35 year old would have no chance attracting a girl of 20?

paddy1990

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

There are lot of very attractive women paired with "lesser" men. There was a thread about that very subject somewhere on Boards at one stage. You'd probably be right regarding very casual relationships or one night stands but for more long term relationships then there's a lot more than looks involved. Your friends' problems probably stem from low self-esteem and confidence as opposed to their looks. Alternatively, if they're chancing their arm in nightclubs then they've picked the second most superficial place to attract women. I'd say online dating is the worst but that's just my opinion.

There are just as many if not more men paired with "lesser" women. The women dating down myth is just hilarious.

Instead what happens is that women when they hit their late 20s/early 30s start getting hit with their bio clock and the prospect of the poindexter with the excellent career is now a decent prospect. They have "had their fun" and are really to settle down. This is where some guys can possibly date up if they are seen as good providers. However, in the vast majority of cases these guys are just getting women on their level or below. Why would a woman date down when she doesn't have to? That would be a bit stupid and would go against her biological wiring.

Certainly when women are in their prime they are not looking at poindexter as a viable option, no matter what his personality is like. Well, I'm talking about attractive women here..

paddy1990

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Didn't you just saw above that a 35 year old would have no chance attracting a girl of 20?

Please try to understand that we have to generalize here. Exceptions prove the rule.

Mike747

paddy1990 wrote: »

He's probably the kind of guy who never had a problem getting women thoughout his teens and 20s and into his 30s. It's a different ballgame for a virgin in his 30s. The virgin is so far behind that its almost insurmountable I'm afraid. Any potential partner will have had about 15 years of sex/relationships more than him.

The guys in their early 40s doing well have some kind of niche appeal to a certain demographic of young girls. This is actually the best way to go. One of the biggest ladies men I know is in his 40s - he manages a well known nightclub in the City Centre.

I've only known him for year so I can't comment on his past. Chances are he didn't. His major strength is that he is utterly fearless when it comes to women and is supremely confident. That can all be learned though. Even a shy virgin can get there if works hard, is patient and learns that rejection is no big deal

I believe men get better looking as they age, they become more rugged and handsome (provided they don't let themselves become fat) Young girls lust after George Cloony and Brad Pitt, even Harrison ford. Of course there are girls who only want prepish pretty boy types. But ultimately I think the older man has more going for him.

I agree about demographics. It's helpful to figure out the type of girl you attract.

paleoperson

What's "defeatist" about it? You could equally say it's self-victoryist to claim it. Romantic human bonds are a great tragedy as much as they are a success.

paddy1990

Mike747 wrote: »

I've only known him for year so I can't comment on his past. Chances are he didn't. His major strength is that he is utterly fearless when it comes to women and is supremely confident. That can all be learned though. Even a shy virgin can get there if works hard, is patient and learns that rejection is no big deal

I believe men get better looking as they age, they become more rugged and handsome (provided they don't let themselves become fat) Young girls lust after George Cloony and Brad Pitt, even Harrison ford. Of course there are girls who only want prepish pretty boy types. But ultimately I think the older man has more going for him.

I agree about demographics. It's helpful to figure out the type of girl you attract.

Clooney and Pitt are outragous outliers and have had a few procedures done. The average 40 year old man looks terrible in comparison. Men do not get more physically attractive as they age, in general. In fact, a lot of avenues close up. The 40 year old guy cannot get girls in their late teens/early 20s as easily as a guy in his 20s can. In order to do well as a 40+ year old man, you'd need significant amounts of money or status - my friend as the nightclub manager is a perfect example.

Women generally agree that peak male attractiveness is from 20-30

http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/12/male-age-and-attractiveness.html

Here are some comments by women on age. I think these would be fairly common views held by most women.

wrote:

If I were to date a man in his early 20s, I would NOT mind about his finacial status.Even if he is in student loans it's fine too.

However, if I were to date a man a lot more older than I am, and if a man has passed 35 and still is struggling finacially and poor, I would definitely care, unless he can give out convicible reasons on how he ended up there.

wrote:

Yes, whoa. Sorry but that is laughable. Men are not the most attractive at 40. Even biologically speaking, sperm starts going bad at 35, resulting in significantly greater chances of having children born with mental illnesses, and disabilities, and regardless of the age of the female they have mated with. Also, psychologically, the 40 year old men I know that are still single are very lost. Peak physical attractiveness is around 21-30, and 29-35 is the highest peak for sum attractiveness. I'm still in my prime, and I would not date a man who is 40 and up. And although when I was 21, I did go on a date with someone who was 40, I was never considering them seriously.

wrote:

Have to agree with what everyone else has said. Men are in the 'peak' in terms of attractiveness from around 28-35. I'm 25 and wouldn't go near a 40 year old and nor would any of my friends. Sure, these relationships with big age gaps happen, but they are hardly the norm. Older men can't really compete with younger men in terms of attractiveness.

Mike747

paddy1990 wrote: »

Clooney and Pitt are outragous outliers and have had a few procedures done. The average 40 year old man looks terrible in comparison. Men do not get more physically attractive as they age, in general. In fact, a lot of avenues close up. The 40 year old guy cannot get girls in their late teens/early 20s as easily as a guy in his 20s can. In order to do well as a 40+ year old man, you'd need significant amounts of money or status - my friend as the nightclub manager is a perfect example.

Women generally agree that peak male attractiveness is from 20-30

http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/12/male-age-and-attractiveness.html

Here are some comments by women on age. I think these would be fairly common views held by most women.

And yet my friend has no money or status and is a serious player. Its a funny world.

SharpshooterTom

paddy1990 wrote: »

The virgin is so far behind that its almost insurmountable I'm afraid. Any potential partner will have had about 15 years of sex/relationships more than him.

So I should just give up then?

Mike747

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

So I should just give up then?

Hell no. You just have to take a hard look at what needs improving and get down to it. Don't worry about 'am I good looking enough for her' or anything like that. There are millions of women out there, you've got to learn how to attract them and get out there.

paddy1990

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

So I should just give up then?

You'll have to be completely honest with any partner about your lack of experience.

I'd say its definitely possible for you to succeed but not the way you are being advised here.

paleoperson

Also sperm do not "start going bad at 35" and noone serious has ever claimed that, it's something you invented to suit yourself.

There is some cross-sectional read: unreliable research claiming that after about 45, sperm SLIGHTLY increases risk of certain diseases such as autism, ADHD and others... in other words all the "soft" ones that are diagnosed not on physical things you can see or clear facts. There are all sorts of confounding factors though involved in this, epidemiological studies like this have suffered serious setbacks from contradictory evidence and are considered unreliable. This is in part to bolster the theory of mutations by sperm, when nothing like that has ever been shown. There is no good evidence that sperm at 90 is any better or worse than sperm at 25.

pwurple

Pay no heed to the garbage about being a virgin being some kind of hindrance. Why people think that women want some sort of slutty guy that has slept with the whole town is beyond me. I have never been attracted to that kind of guy. It's an absolute turn-off.

Take the advice from people who are in actual relationships, rather than those who faff about eternally on online dating websites looking at women like they are a bag of skin and bones instead of a thinking breathing person.

You don't need to be an extrovert.
You don't need to be stunning.
You don't need to be rich.

You do need to be comfortable in your own skin, and nice to be around. It is very difficult to be comfortable in your own skin if you are depressed or negative.

ancapailldorcha

pwurple wrote: »

Why people think that women want some sort of slutty guy that has slept with the whole town is beyond me.

+1

It's down to a fear of embarrassing oneself combined with a lack of knowledge save for the base mechanics. It's not terribly dissimilar to the proverbial dog chasing a car.

pwurple

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

+1

It's down to a fear of embarrassing oneself combined with a lack of knowledge save for the base mechanics. It's not terribly dissimilar to the proverbial dog chasing a car.

I know, It's ridiculous. The whole joy of going out with someone is learning what each person enjoys. Who the heck wants some sort of pony going through a repertoire of tricks that some other girl liked.

ancapailldorcha

pwurple wrote: »

I know, It's ridiculous. The whole joy of going out with someone is learning what each person enjoys. Who the heck wants some sort of pony going through a repertoire of tricks that some other girl liked.

Thing is, you become convinced that you'll get laughed at once you disclose it. You're speaking perfect sense of course.

Wibbs

paddy1990 wrote: »

LOL at completely disregarding the video.

I didn't. Indeed I agree with the author(with the most boring voice ever) that most of the "self help" industry is a crock. It's one reason I can't stand the pickup artist BS. It gives false hope wrapped up in BS in exchange for money.

The remainder of men are really fighting for average women im afraid. Online dating is a very good benchmark to see how things work.

I would disagree. Online dating by it's very nature is a skewed environment. You could hardly build a better environment where looks was positively selected for if you tried.

I've got some great friends who are really nice guys but they are in the OPs position due to small height/ugliness. Nothing they can do really. I have explained to them that it's not their fault and not to start thinking something is wrong with THEM, which is what people like you and others like to propagate. In fact, my mates are hilarious guys and very cool. They are just short and butt ugly and hence get treated like garbage when they try to chat up women. What they need to do is get realistic about their level and go for girls that are ugly/fat themselves, and thankfully that is what they are doing. Hopefully they will get a bit of luck.

On the flip side I can be an absolute c*nt to girls and still have them throw themselves at me. All because I am very good looking. It's quite sad really. Genetic determination I believe it's called.

M'kay. Why does all this read more like someone who had social difficulties, bought into the whole PUA bullshít and realised it was bullshít, sought out answers(like the linked video) and is bitter because of it. You seem to be more empathic with the "short and butt ugly" men than the "very good looking". If you were that good looking and it all came so easy to you why would you even notice anything different? A person's worldview is almost always subjective, based on their subjective experience. It's far more likely a very good looking man who never had trouble getting women would assume that it was equally easy for other men. Like skinny people telling fat people "well just eat less, it's easy". A very good looking guy would barely register another worldview and he wouldn't be nearly as snarky about it, because he's have no need to feel any bitterness as he has already won the life lotto. If your username is reflective of your age then I'd make that a triple barman.

meanwhile you'll get lots of guys with thousands of posts on internet forums who say differently. So you have to be selective in who you believe.

Well all I can say is that there would be enough longer term members who know me in "real life" and have seen me in social situations and I'd have zero issue with them either supporting what I've said or calling me a bullshítter.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I still can't get my head around the idea that men in their 30s who lack serious flaws have it easier than women. A mate of mine is in his early 30s and he's said that things have gotten a lot easier for him in the last few years.

It does depend on the 30+ year old. I would agree with paddy1990 there. Some male faces get better with age, takes the immature youth bit away. If the same guy has gotten fat and middle aged before his time his options are getting much more limited, though he will still have more options with the women looking to "settle down", so long as he's relatively settled in his life/career.

paleoperson wrote:

Also sperm do not "start going bad at 35" and noone serious has ever claimed that, it's something you invented to suit yourself.

Actually there was a study that came out about a year ago that suggested male potency dropped at nearly the same speed as female. Problem was the study was highly flawed. They were conflating the men's potency with their partners. The majority of the men were in relationships and having kids with women around their own age. However when they looked at men who were in relationships with younger women their potency matched theirs and when men were in relationships with older women again that matching held up. Basically what the study was mapping was the fertility of the men's partners, not the men. So long as the men remained healthy and fit(big caveat of course) their fertility and chances of any offspring having genetic damage wasn't much different at 50 than it was at 25. It was the fertility age of the woman that counted.

pwurple wrote:

You don't need to be an extrovert.

Though I'd agree with your other points, I'd disagree here P. OK someone doesn't need to be the life and soul, but introverts have a much harder time of it, especially introverted men. A guy could have the most amazing life/soul/whatever, but if he doesn't let people know how can they find out? How can the same guy meet women if he doesn't engage with them?

ThomasFlynn wrote:

So I should just give up then?

Christ NO TF. Are you looking for some tarted up dollybird of 22 who props up bars and posts up duckfaces on ArseBook looking for validation? No, you're not. You're looking for women who will be similar to you in outlook, intelligence, emotional stability(a fooking biggie Ted). They're out there and there's a lot of them too.