Is it self defeatist to say that some men are meant to be alone??‏

Wibbs

diveout wrote: »

I disagree. I think Ireland is more status concious than the US. Do you really think anyone in Ireland wants to even bring someone home with the wrong accent?

IMH Ireland would be more class conscious than the US, but less status conscious. Of course there is some overlap there, but I'd still contend that money talks more in the US.

Take a hypothetical. Woman brings working class man who has made a great career/money for himself home to her middle class parents. In Ireland the parents might be more accepting of a middle class man with less cash, in the US they would care less and his financial status would be more in play.

TheBeardedLady

Chamber511 wrote: »

In most cultures there are men who think the local women are more difficult to approach.

Bingo. Mentioned this before but one very quiet evening when I'd nothing else to do, I did a search online to find message boards where local women are discussed and you will find similar opinions from men of those countries. I speak Spanish and English, so did a search of all the countries where those languages are spoken.

My boyfriend (who I mentioned before on this thread) didn't have much luck with women here (Madrid) growing up. He grew up in Seville where people are very self-confident and being an extrovert is a valued personality trait. He'd an awful time in his teens and twenties (when he studied physics and had his head in a book for most of it) and admitted to having periods of frustration where he put the blame on them collectively when he knows it was his shyness and being more introverted and bookish put him at a disadvantage.

His first girlfriend was American, second one an American as well (2 very good-looking women, I might add!) and me, an Irish girl. I can't imagine him being this awkward shy fella in his 20s as he's very cool, calm and collected now and can talk to anyone but he did well with the foreign chicks when he finally got out of familiar territory and moved to Madrid and had more opportunities to meet women who didn't see him as some nerdy fella from their city. Basically the same thing a few lads are discussing here happens elsewhere too.

You'll find men (and women - I've met those here as well) with similar problems wherever you go. Perhaps Ireland being the size that it is, it can seem that choices are even more limited, particularly if you're in a town and not a city. My brother has lived in my hometown all his life and has had a few very long-term relationships with women from there. When the last one ended, I think he was really despairing as he saw his pool of women to choose from being limited to that town (it's what he was used to) until he bumped into a lovely English girl in Dublin who he clicks with completely and he's finally leaving my hometown and moving elsewhere.

I know I'd lose the plot if I only had the men from that town to choose from (not to say there's no lovely ones but many of them left early on). I'm guessing not all posters here live in a city in Ireland, so I can understand the frustration and how that might manifest itself in the temptation to blame a whole gender (not rational or fair but probably understandable in many cases) instead of just looking elsewhere. I also know I'm a different person in my hometown where everyone knows who I am and what I was like at 15 (awkward, quite shy etc) to the person I became once I left and moved to Dublin city where I had a lot more luck.

Familiarity breeds contempt and I think that's probably the case for a good few lads here.

Pug160

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd reckon snobbery and especially dating snobbery, or rather more social selection is higher in societies with less social support and/or that are more competitive. Compare Ireland with say the US. We're much more similar than we're not, but Ireland has more in the way of social welfare, medicine, housing and education. So women in such a society will tend to have more leeway on the financial and social status of a man because it's less vital as a survival thing, whereas in US society where simply getting ill, or just getting pregnant and having a baby can be expensive to the point of bankruptcy* so financial considerations are of more import.

A further extreme would be found in countries like Russia where wealth and status can be extremely polarised. Again women in such societies are more likely to select for financial and social status. It would also explain why women in such societies are more willing to date and travel to richer societies and men from the latter can "trade up" compared to what they might expect in their own societies. "Thai brides" would be an example of that. Such women are very rarely from the middle classes of Thai society. To a poor woman in any society, especially as you say from a very polarised society, the average western 9 to 5 company man is "rich" compared to her and the men she is likely to find locally(and there would be higher competition locally).

Like a kind of social Darwinism then. I have to say though, I do think it would be foolish of any man to think it doesn't matter to many women - even in a more equal society. I know a lot of women take all sorts of qualities into consideration, and we live in a society where many women earn more than their partners and in some cases have a better education - at least on paper. So there is clearly hope there for the men who are 'lacking' in certain areas. I will admit though, it's something I am sometimes a bit insecure about. Have you ever seen a child's face when you give it a present it doesn't really like but it tries to pretend that it does? That's the sort of look I - and many other men have got when a certain type of woman we've been talking to has found out what job we do or what 'lesser' qualification we have. It's not something anyone should let get to them of course, but I'd be lying if I said it doesn't cross my mind every so often.

I think if people have a lot in common it can go a long way. Which is why an articulate, well read man who may not have a particularly impressive job or any social status can sometimes attract a woman who some might regard as being above him in some ways. I do acknowledge that there are women who are intelligent and classy etc, and who may not have a professional job or status either. I think it's rarer though, as women seem to make the most of what they have and really push themselves forward - even if they aren't completely sure where their passion lies. Good on them.

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Bingo. Mentioned this before but one very quiet evening when I'd nothing else to do, I did a search online to find message boards where local women are discussed and you will find similar opinions from men of those countries. I speak Spanish and English, so did a search of all the countries where those languages are spoken.

My boyfriend (who I mentioned before on this thread) didn't have much luck with women here (Madrid) growing up. He grew up in Seville where people are very self-confident and being an extrovert is a valued personality trait. He'd an awful time in his teens and twenties (when he studied physics and had his head in a book for most of it) and admitted to having periods of frustration where he put the blame on them collectively when he knows it was his shyness and being more introverted and bookish put him at a disadvantage.

His first girlfriend was American, second one an American as well (2 very good-looking women, I might add!) and me, an Irish girl. I can't imagine him being this awkward shy fella in his 20s as he's very cool, calm and collected now and can talk to anyone but he did well with the foreign chicks when he finally got out of familiar territory and moved to Madrid and had more opportunities to meet women who didn't see him as some nerdy fella from their city. Basically the same thing a few lads are discussing here happens elsewhere too.

You'll find men (and women - I've met those here as well) with similar problems wherever you go. Perhaps Ireland being the size that it is, it can seem that choices are even more limited, particularly if you're in a town and not a city. My brother has lived in my hometown all his life and has had a few very long-term relationships with women from there. When the last one ended, I think he was really despairing as he saw his pool of women to choose from being limited to that town (it's what he was used to) until he bumped into a lovely English girl in Dublin who he clicks with completely and he's finally leaving my hometown and moving elsewhere.

I know I'd lose the plot if I only had the men from that town to choose from (not to say there's no lovely ones but many of them left early on). I'm guessing not all posters here live in a city in Ireland, so I can understand the frustration and how that might manifest itself in the temptation to blame a whole gender (not rational or fair but probably understandable in many cases) instead of just looking elsewhere. I also know I'm a different person in my hometown where everyone knows who I am and what I was like at 15 (awkward, quite shy etc) to the person I became once I left and moved to Dublin city where I had a lot more luck.

Familiarity breeds contempt and I think that's probably the case for a good few lads here.

I do agree that many of us become more confident when we leave home and that could play a part in our success. But I will say that American women in particular - from my experience - are very, very forgiving. There was a time a few years ago when I was so bad socially some people probably thought I was borderline retarded (I very rarely use that word as I know it's frowned upon but I really was THAT bad) but I still remember occasions when American girls were really nice to me and seemed interested. On one particular occasion I just remember being absolutely dumbstruck by this cute American girl who was giving me the time of day when even most locals who weren't anywhere near as attractive thought I was some alien species. It made me feel like someone and I thought about it for weeks after. I'm far more confident now and actually have some decent nights out, but I'd never trade home for the likes of America until I feel I have grown as a person fully.

kiffer

Hmmm I've always put the "local women are mean, foreign women are great" thing down to the fact that "exotic*" people are more interesting to us in a general sense.


*in the milder sense of the word.

Potatoeman

I think it's a very small percentage of Irish girls that are rude to guys that approach them but those are the ones people remember. Someone from a foreign country is probably more approachable as they are trying to experience the culture and if it's only a holiday they are far more relaxed.

TheBeardedLady

Pug160 wrote: »

I do agree that many of us become more confident when we leave home and that could play a part in our success. But I will say that American women in particular - from my experience - are very, very forgiving. There was a time a few years ago when I was so bad socially some people probably thought I was borderline retarded (I very rarely use that word as I know it's frowned upon but I really was THAT bad) but I still remember occasions when American girls were really nice to me and seemed interested. On one particular occasion I just remember being absolutely dumbstruck by this cute American girl who was giving me the time of day when even most locals who weren't anywhere near as attractive thought I was some alien species. It made me feel like someone and I thought about it for weeks after. I'm far more confident now and actually have some decent nights out, but I'd never trade home for the likes of America until I feel I have grown as a person fully.

Funny you should say that because I'd an American friend here (male - he's gone home now) who said the very opposite. He's a studious guy and I suppose not the most extroverted fella in the world and he told me America is a cruel place for fellas like him and if you're not confident and approaching women in bars straight up, it's hard to meet someone. He said the US is not a country for the shy and introverted and that he's had to try to "fake it to make it" a lot.

Again you're both coming at it from different angles based on your experiences and obviously you're experiences are as valid as each other but I'd personally go with your experience being the most rational America, being the size that it is (absolutely fooking massive), you're going to meet all types and women must be used to all types as well.

Saying that, like I said in my last post, I didn't pick up on the fact that my boyfriend was a quiet, bookish fella (he still is) but perhaps a Spanish woman would pick up on it quicker. I don't know.

I know a few women here who've had no luck with Spanish men, like really have problems even getting a date and I know a few who've even left the country (American and English women) because they've been so unlucky. I've two other friends (both gorgeous, smart, attractive, nice) who have had no luck and are considering doing the same but they wrote off Spanish men a long time ago and that obviously doesn't help (they might seem closed to any opportunity)

I met a Spanish guy my second month here (different guy) and I'd a few bits and bobs before and after that and although I wasn't overwhelmed with choices (I wouldn't be their type, I don't think), I didn't have that much trouble getting a few things going here and there because I was open to it (one of the main reasons why I moved here was because I fancied Spanish men, if I'm honest). London, on the other hand, was disastrous for me when I lived there and I broke up with an ex - worse place ever for me to be on the rebound! I was lucky in Birmingham though!

Funny how it works.

So many theories based on nothing but experiences with no actual proof. I've just gone back to university to study psychology and reading my first academic book on the subject and am suddenly very wary about theorising on human behaviour without empirical evidence to back it up. I need to give it up pronto!

The Strawman Argument

For me, the benefit of non-Irish girls (in general) was that I'm able to pawn off pretty much any eccentricity I have on being from rural Ireland. It's really really stupid but made me feel a hell of a lot more comfortable after years of being bullied by Irish girls when I was younger left me insecure as f*ck.


Could see it being somewhat similar for both sides in most cases, you're freed of the need to stick to whatever your own culture's societal norms are.

Daveysil15

The Strawman Argument wrote: »

For me, the benefit of non-Irish girls (in general) was that I'm able to pawn off pretty much any eccentricity I have on being from rural Ireland. It's really really stupid but made me feel a hell of a lot more comfortable after years of being bullied by Irish girls when I was younger left me insecure as f*ck.


Could see it being somewhat similar for both sides in most cases, you're freed of the need to stick to whatever your own culture's societal norms are.

Yeah I can relate to that. Been from the sticks myself, I often found it difficult in larger towns and the big shmoke. The bogger accent and all that. Although again it was mainly the 18-24 age group that I mentioned earlier. Things change as you get older. Looking back now, my early 20's were not very enjoyable or successful as far as going out at weekends and meeting women was concerned. It's different now. I'm more confident for a start but there are also a lot more options.

TheBeardedLady

I would've presumed the country accent would've been a hit with the ladies in the big shmoke. I find them very appealing personally. I'd an ex who grew up on a farm and to me, that was the height of exoticness (genuinely).

djburchgrove

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I would've presumed the country accent would've been a hit with the ladies in the big shmoke. I find them very appealing personally. I'd an ex who grew up on a farm and to me, that was the height of exoticness (genuinely).

Believe me, you are in the very very small minority.

Pug160

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Funny you should say that because I'd an American friend here (male - he's gone home now) who said the very opposite. He's a studious guy and I suppose not the most extroverted fella in the world and he told me America is a cruel place for fellas like him and if you're not confident and approaching women in bars straight up, it's hard to meet someone. He said the US is not a country for the shy and introverted and that he's had to try to "fake it to make it" a lot.

Again you're both coming at it from different angles based on your experiences and obviously you're experiences are as valid as each other but I'd personally go with your experience being the most rational America, being the size that it is (absolutely fooking massive), you're going to meet all types and women must be used to all types as well.

Saying that, like I said in my last post, I didn't pick up on the fact that my boyfriend was a quiet, bookish fella (he still is) but perhaps a Spanish woman would pick up on it quicker. I don't know.

I know a few women here who've had no luck with Spanish men, like really have problems even getting a date and I know a few who've even left the country (American and English women) because they've been so unlucky. I've two other friends (both gorgeous, smart, attractive, nice) who have had no luck and are considering doing the same but they wrote off Spanish men a long time ago and that obviously doesn't help (they might seem closed to any opportunity)

I met a Spanish guy my second month here (different guy) and I'd a few bits and bobs before and after that and although I wasn't overwhelmed with choices (I wouldn't be their type, I don't think), I didn't have that much trouble getting a few things going here and there because I was open to it (one of the main reasons why I moved here was because I fancied Spanish men, if I'm honest). London, on the other hand, was disastrous for me when I lived there and I broke up with an ex - worse place ever for me to be on the rebound! I was lucky in Birmingham though!

Funny how it works.

So many theories based on nothing but experiences with no actual proof. I've just gone back to university to study psychology and reading my first academic book on the subject and am suddenly very wary about theorising on human behaviour without empirical evidence to back it up. I need to give it up pronto!

Oh absolutely - they're only my experiences and I'm sure many American men have the same problems. America is huge - almost like lots of different countries joined together, so it probably varies a great deal. I've always got the impression though, that the men from America who are really unsuccessful with women are more likely to be extremely bad socially, whereas a guy over here can be relatively normal in most ways and still not have too much success. Now admittedly that's only an assumption on my part. I do know that certain parts of America can be a lot more shallow, so it can be tough for some of those guys too I imagine.

It's nice to be appreciated - no man or woman on earth would deny that.

beks101

djburchgrove wrote: »

Believe me, you are in the very very small minority.

Hahaha!

I'd kind of agree with beardedlady actually. Once I'd been abroad a few years something really fcuking strange happened. I found myself wildly attracted to a soft, flat rural Ireland accent on a guy.

Now not one of those digifone-ad "It's me the guy from the bahrrrr!!" kinda ones, just mid-Ireland soft and lilting kinda thing. When I lived in Canada I met my ex in a house party surrounded by other canadians - big untouched Athlone accent on him, I swear to god I swooned when I first met him

I can see how it would be hot to da fordin chicks!

Pug160

Strong accents don't sit too well with snooty people - we all know that and there's no point trying to skirt around it. The way I see it, you have two options: be confident in who you are, or try to soften it up a bit while remaining confident. There is nothing wrong with trying to soften it up a bit IMO as long as you want to actually change yourself - but make sure it is what you genuinely want to do, and don't do it to please anyone else. Newsreaders have to soften up their accents - it's a fact of life. But someone might find your harsh accent a turn on. Make your choice.

TheBeardedLady

beks101 wrote: »

Hahaha!

I'd kind of agree with beardedlady actually. Once I'd been abroad a few years something really fcuking strange happened. I found myself wildly attracted to a soft, flat rural Ireland accent on a guy.

Now not one of those digifone-ad "It's me the guy from the bahrrrr!!" kinda ones, just mid-Ireland soft and lilting kinda thing. When I lived in Canada I met my ex in a house party surrounded by other canadians - big untouched Athlone accent on him, I swear to god I swooned when I first met him

I can see how it would be hot to da fordin chicks!

I met the ex I mentioned while living in London. I suppose foreign becomes familiar and familiar becomes exotic and foreign when you're away.

TheBeardedLady

Pug160 wrote: »

Strong accents don't sit too well with snooty people - we all know that and there's no point trying to skirt around it. The way I see it, you have two options: be confident in who you are, or try to soften it up a bit while remaining confident. There is nothing wrong with trying to soften it up a bit IMO as long as you want to actually change yourself - but make sure it is what you genuinely want to do, and don't do it to please anyone else. Newsreaders have to soften up their accents - it's a fact of life. But someone might find your harsh accent a turn on. Make your choice.

In that case it's a good gauge of the type of person you're dealing with. I wouldn't adapt anything that comes to me naturally to suit another person. I can't imagine any woman worth their salt would judge you on having a different accent to theirs.

Daveysil15

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I would've presumed the country accent would've been a hit with the ladies in the big shmoke. I find them very appealing personally. I'd an ex who grew up on a farm and to me, that was the height of exoticness (genuinely).

Even if they sound like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdCqS_GKLUM

TheBeardedLady

I've a soft spot for Cavan as my dad is from there and all his family.

Yorker

Daveysil15 wrote: »

90% of the women are dating 10% of the men. Simples.

No well obviously its the men who generally do the approaching. Even shy girls will get approached if they're anywhere daycent looking. Plus with online dating the men far outnumber the women.

what about shy girls that are not daycent looking?

Yorker

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Can I ask a question guys, is dating generally speaking easier for women than it is for men? Or is that just a stereotype?

I take its meant to be easier for women in online dating but for dating just generally is it?

I can't figure out why that would be if that is the case. I mean in terms of the population they're in equal numbers pretty much, in fact according to the 2011 census for men vs woman in the age group 25-44 was 717,055 and 733,085 respectively (so actually slightly more women). Regardless its pretty much 50:50, I can't understand why so many men say dating's far harder for men than it is women, its too competitive, women have it easy etc. There's got to be as many single women as there are men, but many say being a single man is much more common!

Unless there are a lot of polygamists about :P I can't figure mathematically why that would be. Maybe somebody could give me an explanation why is supposedly harder?

i think you think too much. too much in your head. dating is not about mathematically working out %'s

EDIT: It occurred to me that may seem insulting. i did not mean it to be. Just saying it can be counter productive to be over over-analysing things

Yorker

Mike747 wrote: »

And yet my friend has no money or status and is a serious player. Its a funny world.

yearsago i was hitching and a guy who gaveme a lift told me one of hs circle of friends was nothing special, wore casual jeans , had little money. But at every party and social event he could wipe the good lookers eyes and walk out with any girl he wanted. The good looking rich guys in their armani suits and deep pockets could not match him. Not a hope not ever.

Currently I know someone in his fifties who gets a lot of attention, without looking for it, from girls late teens and early twenties. he is not rich and of average looks etc but he is a artistic and a bit eccentric and confident in his eccenticity and does not give a f*** what people think of him

Yorker

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

So I should just give up then?

why should you give up trying to improve? Remember anything said here is just opinion. If you believe it you will ensure it happens.there is a lot of truth in the video about looks but there is also such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy. and the sort of women who would put themselves forward for a video like that are not representative of all women. There are billions,BILLIONS, of women. all you want is ONE who does not agree with the video

Ignore pua artists and trainers. like whores they just want your money. anything you can learn from them will be free if you can find something positive in their forums but be realistic.some of them pay models to teach people how to talk to women. They would not look at the guys unless they were getting paid are are the sort of superficial attenton seekers who would be interviewed in that video

Yorker

paddy1990 wrote: »

You'll have to be completely honest with any partner about your lack of experience.

I'd say its definitely possible for you to succeed but not the way you are being advised here.

how do you know how the partner will feel about it or if it would be important to her?

Yorker

Wibbs wrote: »

I would say and again just my humble, that the "town bike" man is going to get more one night/fling type action, but may have difficulty with getting into a long term relationship. Like the opposite where the "town bike" woman gets plenty of attention but fewer will want her as an official girlfriend. Though because of the double standard he will still be ahead of her.

a most astute observation