Should it be illegal to cycle while wearing headphones? On the spot fine?

beauf

adrian522 wrote: »

I actually don't want to ban music. I think it would be idiotic.

Take from that what you will.

That might mean you're a tallaght-man I'm not sure.

Deedsie

adrian522 wrote: »

Brilliant, this is scientific proof if ever I've seen it. Ban earphones all together. Let's ban music while we are at it.

beauf wrote: »

So will you be starting a thread should it be illegal to "walk while wearing headphones?"

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

Problem: Teenage girl walks out in front of Luas without looking left or right.
Solution: Ban cyclists from wearing headphones.

Headphones/earphones affect awareness. That's my point, why would I ban music. I love music. Where did I mention scientific evidence?

It was a current news story that someway I felt could be linked to this thread.

cormacjones

adrian522 wrote: »

I actually don't want to ban music. I think it would be idiotic.

Take from that what you will.

I know. I was joking. I thought your immature reply, that was dripping in childish sarcasm, deserved it.

Chips Lovell

Deedsie wrote: »

Headphones/earphones affect awareness.

They affect awareness if you're relying on your ears to cross the road or, in this case, cross the Luas tracks, which isn't a very sensible thing to do. Deciding that headphones should be banned isn't the first conclusion I'd be coming to.

adrian522

Deedsie wrote: »

Headphones/earphones affect awareness. That's my point, why would I ban music. I love music. Where did I mention scientific evidence?

It was a current news story that someway I felt could be linked to this thread.

But it is not linked to the thread at all is it?

You concluded from that story that "Headphones/earphones do affect your awareness of what is going on around you."


One person not paying attention doesn't prove anything. She could just as easily have done the same thing while not wearing earphones.

If I were to post on this thread every-time someone safely crossed the road wearing headphones what would that prove?

It's an utterly redundant point.

cormacjones

adrian522 wrote: »

But it is not linked to the thread at all is it?

You concluded from that story that "Headphones/earphones do affect your awareness of what is going on around you."


One person not paying attention doesn't prove anything. She could just as easily have done the same thing while not wearing earphones.

If I were to post on this thread every-time someone safely crossed the road wearing headphones what would that prove?

It's an utterly redundant point.

That's a ridiculous statement and you could use that argument to prove anything is safe.

Your senses dictate your awareness of what's going on around you. Hearing is one your senses. If that's impaired of course it's going to affect your awareness.

By the way, I'm not in favour of banning headphones for cycling. I cycle everyday, and more often than not, I use headphones. But I'm not stupid enough to think that I wouldn't be safer not using them.

victorcarrera

beauf wrote: »

So will you be starting a thread should it be illegal to "walk while wearing headphones?"

Or one outlawing motor vehicles with engine and exhaust noise suppression or low noise tyres might have the desired result. I hope not though because I prefer to hear the chavs approaching from a few Km back as it gives me time to either jump up on the footpath or take the next left turn.
I think the OP's proposal would fail a proper engineering analysis anyway because the random nature of music frequencies would not mask the constant tyre or engine noise of a motor vehicle and Is probably the reason many posters here have reported they can still hear traffic approching from the rear while listening to music.

cython

Deedsie wrote: »

Headphones/earphones affect awareness. That's my point, why would I ban music. I love music. Where did I mention scientific evidence?

It was a current news story that someway I felt could be linked to this thread.

That would be an exceedingly tenuous link, I'm afraid - there was no cyclist involved here, it happened in a location where cyclists should not be cycling, and the incident could be attributed equally (or perhaps even primarily, I wasn't involved to offer any further insight, but the suggestion is equally valid as yours) to the fact that "The youngster was in a rush to get a bus"

Should we ban people from cycling if they are in a hurry to their destination?

beauf

Deedsie wrote: »

...It was a current news story that someway I felt could be linked to this thread.

Well you're right but not in the way you think.

The impracticality of your suggestion may not be obvious when applied to cycling, but it is abundantly clear when you apply it to walking.

Deedsie

Someway linked = this thread heaphones/earphones : Impact on awareness of your surroundings.

The article = heaphones/earphones impact on the girls awareness of her surroundings.

From a legal point of view, if a motorist knocked down a cyclist and the motorist was in the wrong. If it went to court could the defence use the fact that the cyclist involved was not paying due care or attention as they were wearing headphones/earphones at the time of the incident?

adrian522

If the motorist was in the wrong then it wouldn't really matter but I guess it would depend on the circumstances. I guess the defence could make any argument they wanted.

But the facts are

1. It is not illegal to wear earphones
2. Wearing earphones does not mean you are not paying due care and attention.

beauf

Deedsie wrote: »

Someway linked = this thread heaphones/earphones : Impact on awareness of your surroundings.

The article = heaphones/earphones impact on the girls awareness of her surroundings.

From a legal point of view, if a motorist knocked down a cyclist and the motorist was in the wrong. If it went to court could the defence use the fact that the cyclist involved was not paying due care or attention as they were wearing headphones/earphones at the time of the incident?

Well then should you ban all things that impact on awareness?

Why single out cycling?

Is any of it enforceable with current resources?

Is any of it covered by existing laws? For example in the UK there's "dangerous cycling".

Chips Lovell

Deedsie wrote: »

If it went to court could the defence use the fact that the cyclist involved was not paying due care or attention as they were wearing headphones/earphones at the time of the incident?

That's essentially what you're arguing for. Because if your proposal ever did see the light of day, that's where it's going to have the biggest impact. Given that the Guards don't enforce most existing road traffic law against cyclists, they're hardly going to be out every morning pulling in people with earphones. But it definitely will be picked up on by the lawyers.

Frequently these kinds well meaning but poorly thought through safety proposals come with "sure what harm can it do... if it only saves one life" kind of commentary. And the thing is, they can actually do plenty of harm. You're essentially transferring liability or part liability onto cyclists with little or no evidence to suggest it's warranted.

Deedsie

beauf wrote: »

Well then should you ban all things that impact on awareness?

Why single out cycling?

Is any of it enforceable with current resources?

Is any of it covered by existing laws? For example in the UK there's "dangerous cycling".

It's a cycling forum

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

That's essentially what you're arguing for. Because if your proposal ever did see the light of day, that's where it's going to have the biggest impact. Given that the Guards don't enforce most existing road traffic law against cyclists, they're hardly going to be out every morning pulling in people with earphones. But it definitely will be picked up on by the lawyers.

Frequently these kinds well meaning but poorly thought through safety proposals come with "sure what harm can it do... if it only saves one life" kind of commentary. And the thing is, they can actually do plenty of harm. You're essentially transferring liability or part liability onto cyclists with little or no evidence to suggest it's warranted.

I have stated my opinion is that it does impact on awareness thus wearing headphones while cycling should make a person liable. Easy solution, don't wear headphones while cycling and you won't be liable.

Perhaps headphones/earphones, using a mobile phone, being drunk, illegal substance use, cycling on a footpath, breaking red lights etc etc could all be considered breaking a new all encompassing rule of "Dangerous cycling" like the one someone mentioned exists in the UK. @beauf

I don't want to be criminalising people, I regret using te word illegal and on the spot fine in the title. I do think it is a an issue, a small one yet I see zombie cyclists wearing headphones/earphones every morning totally unaware of what's going on around them. Other cyclists can't overtake them safely. They don't seem to realise cars/busses are about to overtake them until they have and then they get a fright and have to react and right themselves.

I don't know how they can do it morning after morning. I had a guy cycling in front of me this evening with full on beats headphones swerving back and forth accross the cycle lane... No helmet

monument

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

Problem: Teenage girl walks out in front of Luas without looking left or right.
Solution: Ban cyclists from wearing headphones.

Thank you!

Grassey

Deedsie wrote: »

Perhaps headphones/earphones, using a mobile phone, being drunk, illegal substance use, cycling on a footpath, breaking red lights etc etc could all be considered breaking a new all encompassing rule of "Dangerous cycling" like the one someone mentioned exists in the UK. @beauf

of me this evening with full on beats headphones swerving back and forth accross the cycle lane... No helmet

Whooooooo.... I'll agree that those lads wearing headphones look like idiots... But don't take being drunk from us! A few pints never hurt anyone's awareness when cycling. How'd we legally get home from the pub then?

Also what does not wearing a helmet have to do with him listening to music while in a cycle lane?

Deedsie

Grassey wrote: »

Whooooooo.... I'll agree that those lads wearing headphones look like idiots... But don't take being drunk from us! A few pints never hurt anyone's awareness when cycling. How'd we legally get home from the pub then?

Also what does not wearing a helmet have to do with him listening to music while in a cycle lane?

Drunk not sociable...

He was basically dancing on his bike swerving across the cycle lane... If he swerved out while a car swerved in... Boom

I dunno why I mentioned the helmet. Just to illustrate the story more for ye I guess

MadDog76

Deedsie wrote: »

Should it be illegal to cycle while wearing headphones? On the spot fine?

Just wondering other people's opinions on this? Maybe start a discussion.

I think it's a bit careless and potentially very dangerous for a cyclist to be on the public road and not be focused totally on the job of cycling safely from A to B?

It should definitely be illegal .......... furthermore they should have to take some form of road safety test and hold a licence. They are considered to be our most vulnerable road users yet any idiot (and I've seen quite a few idiots cycling about putting themselves in possible fatal harm's way!!) can jump on a bike and hit the roads without any rules of the road knowledge whatsoever ....... shocking to say the least!

PeadarCo

Deedsie wrote: »

It's a cycling forum



I have stated my opinion is that it does impact on awareness thus wearing headphones while cycling should make a person liable. Easy solution, don't wear headphones while cycling and you won't be liable.

Perhaps headphones/earphones, using a mobile phone, being drunk, illegal substance use, cycling on a footpath, breaking red lights etc etc could all be considered breaking a new all encompassing rule of "Dangerous cycling" like the one someone mentioned exists in the UK. @beauf

I don't want to be criminalising people, I regret using te word illegal and on the spot fine in the title. I do think it is a an issue, a small one yet I see zombie cyclists wearing headphones/earphones every morning totally unaware of what's going on around them. Other cyclists can't overtake them safely. They don't seem to realise cars/busses are about to overtake them until they have and then they get a fright and have to react and right themselves.

I don't know how they can do it morning after morning. I had a guy cycling in front of me this evening with full on beats headphones swerving back and forth accross the cycle lane... No helmet

There's a very simple solution. If you consider it dangerous to wear headphones don't wear them.

Relying exclusively on your ears when cycling will lead to an accident. A person who wears headphones but regularly checks over their shoulder is a safer cyclist than a person without headphones who doesn't. In your example had the person sounds like a bad cyclist. Earphones don't cause a person to swerve all about the place.

Also as others have pointed out cycling isn't noise free. Anytime I'm wearing earphones and I go over 30km/hr the noise of the wind is louder than the earphones. If the issue is with noise then cyclists shouldn't be allowed go over a certain speed and cycle when the wind is above a particular a particular speed or combination of both.

On the topic of accidents do you have any real life example of cycling accidents caused primarily by earphones?

Brian?

I was wearing a thermo headband over my ears today. Couldn't hear a thing but the wind while descending. Should there be an on the spot fine for warm ears?

Deedsie

Brian? wrote: »

I was wearing a thermo headband over my ears today. Couldn't hear a thing but the wind while descending. Should there be an on the spot fine for warm ears?

There should be a ban on wearing thermo anything in August.

MadDog76

Deedsie wrote: »

There should be a ban on wearing thermo anything in August.

LOL!!!!!!!

Qualitymark

Actually, I nearly did have an accident involving headphones (or rather, earbuds) the other day.

I was coming down Dame Street - not awfully fast - and a pedestrian who was standing on the pavement suddenly wandered onto the street right in front of me, oblivious, with her back to me, against the lights, which were anywhere not near her.

It was too late to ring my bell, but I let out an eldritch screech that caused the hair of everyone within 50 feet to stand on end. Not the wandering pedestrian, though. It was only after I had swerved past her (thankfully there were no cars coming behind me or I'd be a goner) that I realised she was lost in her own world, listening to something on her earbuds.

Perhaps we should ban earbuds for pedestrians?

Deedsie

Qualitymark wrote: »

Actually, I nearly did have an accident involving headphones (or rather, earbuds) the other day.

I was coming down Dame Street - not awfully fast - and a pedestrian who was standing on the pavement suddenly wandered onto the street right in front of me, oblivious, with her back to me, against the lights, which were anywhere not near her.

It was too late to ring my bell, but I let out an eldritch screech that caused the hair of everyone within 50 feet to stand on end. Not the wandering pedestrian, though. It was only after I had swerved past her (thankfully there were no cars coming behind me or I'd be a goner) that I realised she was lost in her own world, listening to something on her earbuds.

Perhaps we should ban earbuds for pedestrians?

Or just raise awareness to be careful when out and about be you pedestrian, cyclist or motorist. Anything that will impede your ability to know what's going on around you should of course be discouraged. Again I regret saying illegal and fine now.

I nearly crashed into a girl at the canal bridge at leeson street last week. She was just strolling across the road looking at her phone. She got quite a fright though so hopefully she will be more observant in future.

Qualitymark

Deedsie wrote: »

Or just raise awareness to be careful when out and about be you pedestrian, cyclist or motorist. Anything that will impede your ability to know what's going on around you should of course be discouraged. Again I regret saying illegal and fine now.

I nearly crashed into a girl at the canal bridge at leeson street last week. She was just strolling across the road looking at her phone. She got quite a fright though so hopefully she will be more observant in future.

I spent quite a while in bicycle shops experimentally ringing bells till I got one that was loud enough for the sound to carry well, without being really irritating. But after a few scares, I now cycle along any road with a lot of pedestrians near the edge of the pavement, ringing the bell gently as I go.

Quite a trick to ring it in a tone of voice that says "I'm telling you that I'm here and to be careful, not telling you to get the f&^% out of my way".

chinacup

Brian? wrote: »

I was wearing a thermo headband over my ears today. Couldn't hear a thing but the wind while descending. Should there be an on the spot fine for warm ears?

Also a wooly hat, glasses that fog up, sunglasses, a big furry hood? Having the flu? Cycling in difficult weather situations? A combination of two of these? I mean come on.

Brian?

Deedsie wrote: »

There should be a ban on wearing thermo anything in August.

You tell the poxy weather. My ears were frozen.

RainyDay

Qualitymark wrote: »

I let out an eldritch screech

Class!

07Lapierre

I was cycling in Spain two weeks ago( yes i was wearing earphones and cycling on the opposite side of the road to what I'm used to). It was Sunny and Hot and the number of Females walking around wearing Swimwear was very, very distracting! Should we ban women wearing swimwear in public? Definitely not..its a risk I'm happy to take!

Lusk_Doyle

07Lapierre wrote: »

I was cycling in Spain two weeks ago( yes i was wearing earphones and cycling on the opposite side of the road to what I'm used to). It was Sunny and Hot and the number of Females walking around wearing Swimwear was very, very distracting! Should we ban women wearing swimwear in public? Definitely not..its a risk I'm happy to take!

What about men in women's swimwear?