Should it be illegal to cycle while wearing headphones? On the spot fine?

Brian?

8 pages of the same 2 points being made over and over and over......

Now THAT should be illegal

magicbastarder

Qualitymark wrote: »

Accidents I've had:

• blown over by a sudden gust of wind while turning between tall buildings, faceplanted onto the sharp ridge that used to be at the top of car doors. Luckily wearing contacts not glasses, so not blinded by glass, just a nasty wound under the eye for some weeks.
  
• driver flung door of car wide open as I passed it - I was well out, but he managed to catch a pannier, which leaped off but was hooked to the frame by elastic, so I sprawled right across that busy curve approaching Ranelagh where buses sweep around; luckily no buses. "Oh, I'm awful sorry," he said.
  
• doored by passenger opening car in traffic; luckily i whipped my hand off the handlebars so didn't break my fingers, just carommed off the door and onto the road in front of a car whose driver jammed on the brakes in time.
  
• slammed in the face by a pillow swung by a kid playing "break the neck of the cyclist"; swerved right and left after it hit and cycled on.
  
• spat at by angry pedestrian as I whizzed down Dame Street one windy day; combination of the wind and my speed whipped his spittle back and it covered his own face. Will always remember the look of disgusted outrage on him.
  
• slipped sideways on a glistening manhole cover, don't know how many times until I learned to avoid them.
  
• near miss from cars as I swerved to avoid manhole covers.

None caused by earphones; I don't wear them anyway but they wouldn't have made a difference to any of these.

i've highlighted the important bit, which puts paid to drawing *any* conclusions from your examples.
you've not listed any examples where sound may or may not have played a factor, so the examples are completely moot.

you may have had one or several incidents where you did hear a car coming, allowing you to take evasive action, but as this didn't result in any accident, it's precluded from the list above.

not that i'm making any argument in favour of a headphone ban, just that the data only makes sense when you include examples from people who did avoid accidents because they were not wearing headphones vs. people who did have accidents while wearing headphones - because that's what people who want to ban them need to quantify.

cython

Deedsie wrote: »

Some people are getting a bit worked up here. I was only trying to start a discussion on 1 individual aspect of bike safety. Of course there are bigger issues, doesn't mean the little issues should be ignored. 40% of people who visited the thread responded yes or maybe so I think the thread is valid and should not be treated with derision. Feel free to not participate if you disagree with the topic but at least attempt to make a for or against argument.

There are plenty of threads on cycling on footpaths, breaking lights, high viz, helmets etc

IMHO it does to an extent, i.e. relative trivialities such as whether or not headphones should be illegal while cycling (and I don't believe they should be as long as car radios, etc. are not illegal) should be de-prioritised until such a time as the "bigger issues" have been improved upon sufficiently that they are no longer bigger issues - pretty simple really.

Power10

it probably shouldnt be made illegal....but i think you'd be pretty stupid to be wearing them on open roads...it hard enough to stay safe...why make it more difficult to hear traffic coming up behind you....

Deedsie

cython wrote: »

IMHO it does to an extent, i.e. relative trivialities such as whether or not headphones should be illegal while cycling (and I don't believe they should be as long as car radios, etc. are not illegal) should be de-prioritised until such a time as the "bigger issues" have been improved upon sufficiently that they are no longer bigger issues - pretty simple really.

Pretty short sighted approach, all issues big or small should be open to discussion. A consensus can be found amongst the cycling community and a unified voice on the issue would receive a better response if the issue does ever raise it's head on a national scale.

If a politician took issue with headphone wearing cyclists at least we know the position of most boards.ie cyclists is in favour of the status quo...

chinacup

How is driving with the stereo on a wrong doing of drivers? Its not like you can hear much through a car anyway. Also even with my headphones on full blast I've noticed when on the bike I can still hear a beep from a car nearby. And way to make a leap of a conclusion barely presenting a valid argument? You can't just decide on cyclist laws through some random notion you haven't really thought through. If I didn't know any better I'd call troll.

cython

Deedsie wrote: »

Pretty short sighted approach, all issues big or small should be open to discussion. A consensus can be found amongst the cycling community and a unified voice on the issue would receive a better response if the issue does ever raise it's head on a national scale.

If a politician took issue with headphone wearing cyclists at least we know the position of most boards.ie cyclists is in favour of the status quo...

That would be part of why I said to an extent (i.e. perhaps not completely ignore), and used the word de-prioritised to clarify that - by all means discuss it, but from the perspective of actually addressing/taking action on something, this is (or at least should be) so far down the list of priorities as to be virtually subterranean and I would probably actively seek out any politician who "took issue" with it under the current circumstances so that I could laugh in their face.

petethedrummer

http://irishcycle.com/2014/01/01/cyclists-deaths-on-irish-roads-at-joint-low-in-2013/


http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

bigar

Deedsie wrote: »

Pretty short sighted approach, all issues big or small should be open to discussion. A consensus can be found amongst the cycling community and a unified voice on the issue would receive a better response if the issue does ever raise it's head on a national scale.

If a politician took issue with headphone wearing cyclists at least we know the position of most boards.ie cyclists is in favour of the status quo...

OP, just wondering:

- are you a cyclist
- what was the reason to open this discussion?

There is no such thing as a "cycling community", just people who use a bicycle as a means of transport. Do you want to ask every cyclist to vote on this so if it ever is brought up in politically we can point to this thread and tell them what cyclists think about it?

Qualitymark

petethedrummer wrote: »

http://irishcycle.com/2014/01/01/cyclists-deaths-on-irish-roads-at-joint-low-in-2013/

Four of these fatalities were male. Should we ban men from cycling?

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

Also people under 26; Sunday cyclists, walkers and drivers; anyone on the road between 4pm and 6pm, and using the roads on any month other than November?

petethedrummer

Qualitymark wrote: »

Four of these fatalities were male. Should we ban men from cycling?

A tad harsh. Maybe men should wear dresses while cycling as a compromise.

RainyDay

Nino Brown wrote: »

It should be illegal to cycle wearing headphones, wearing pants, wearing anything really

So you'd be happy with this approach then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbxqYnZ9KnE

Cabaal

If cycling with headphones is to be made illegal then car stereo's should also be outlawed for the exact same reason,

Numerous times I've seen motorists with blaring music fail to hear sirens etc and get out of the way in time,

el tel

Deedsie wrote: »

Should it be illegal to cycle while wearing headphones? On the spot fine?

Just wondering other people's opinions on this? Maybe start a discussion.

I think it's a bit careless and potentially very dangerous for a cyclist to be on the public road and not be focused totally on the job of cycling safely from A to B?

When you say headphones, do you mean these guys?



If so, well I would agree that there is a strong arguement that such yokes would impair your perception.

But I don't think I've ever witnessed anyone earing these on a bike so I can't see what the major problem is.


Thankfully however, there is the alternative device, known as the earphone, which mitgiates the problems of headphones while cycling. I would encourage headphone wearing cyclists to use earphones instead.

Nino Brown

RainyDay wrote: »

So you'd be happy with this approach then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbxqYnZ9KnE

To be fair, they are far less likely to be knocked down, so it is safer. I'm not sure the chick at 27 secs got the memo:D!

Deedsie

bigar wrote: »

OP, just wondering:

- are you a cyclist
- what was the reason to open this discussion?

There is no such thing as a "cycling community", just people who use a bicycle as a means of transport. Do you want to ask every cyclist to vote on this so if it ever is brought up in politically we can point to this thread and tell them what cyclists think about it?

Yes I am a cyclist, leisure and I commute to work every day in Dublin, I cycle a minimum of 100km per week commuting alone. Not to be as smart ass as this sounds, I opened this discussion so we could discuss it. I don't know how else to answer that question.

I had an opinion which I think I am entitled to have, that cycling with earphones/headphones impairs ability to be 100% aware of what's happening around you. I wanted to get other members of the cycling communities* opinion it to see if any agreed with me. To me it is just an inconsiderate thing to do that could potentially 1000000/1 chance endanger another road user or yourself.

*people who cycle, people who are or will be all impacted by any legislation that may be introduced to make cycling safer, people who want to discuss various issues affecting cycling, cycling enthusiasts etc etc etc

07Lapierre

Deedsie wrote: »

Yes I am a cyclist, leisure and I commute to work every day in Dublin, I cycle a minimum of 100km per week commuting alone. Not to be as smart ass as this sounds, I opened this discussion so we could discuss it. I don't know how else to answer that question.

I had an opinion which I think I am entitled to have, that cycling with earphones/headphones impairs ability to be 100% aware of what's happening around you. I wanted to get other members of the cycling communities* opinion it to see if any agreed with me. To me it is just an inconsiderate thing to do that could potentially 1000000/1 chance endanger another road user or yourself.

*people who cycle, people who are or will be all impacted by any legislation that may be introduced to make cycling safer, people who want to discuss various issues affecting cycling, cycling enthusiasts etc etc etc

The poll has been up for 3 days now...I think you have your answer.

dreamerb

Deedsie wrote: »

I had an opinion which I think I am entitled to have, that cycling with earphones/headphones impairs ability to be 100% aware of what's happening around you.

No-one's "100% aware" of what's happening around them at any given time. And day-dreaming or thinking about an argument or having a sudden flash of creative inspiration or watching your odometer too closely will all impair situational awareness. Should they be banned?

Really, it's about having cop-on and paying attention. Banning headphones or earphones won't make a careless inattentive cyclist substantially better and will have a negative effect on some people. There is also no evidence to suggest headphone / earphone use is associated with injuries or fatalities. So until there's much more evidence than "let me tell you about this idiot who was wearing earphones", a ban would be completely disproportionate to the aim.

Better enforcement of existing law (for cyclists and drivers alike) and better information about road-positioning are far more likely to improve cyclist safety.

el tel

Deedsie wrote: »

I had an opinion which I think I am entitled to have, that cycling with earphones/headphones impairs ability to be 100% aware of what's happening around you. I wanted to get other members of the cycling communities* opinion it to see if any agreed with me.

But you don't seem sure about what you think should be illegal. First it was just headphones, now you think it should be earphones too.

Perfect example of creeping legislation...:pac:

Deedsie

el tel wrote: »

But you don't seem sure about what you think should be illegal. First it was just headphones, now you think it should be earphones too.

Perfect example of creeping legislation...:pac:

Earphones/headphones in the context of wearing them while cycling are equally irresponsible in my opinion. I am just gonna stop replying now, most people seem happy with the current situation.

Safe cycling folks.

tunney

Deedsie wrote: »

Earphones/headphones in the context of wearing them while cycling are equally irresponsible in my opinion. I am just gonna stop replying now, most people seem happy with the current situation.

Safe cycling folks.

Says more about how you cycle rather than earphones.

<snip>

petethedrummer

Deedsie wrote: »

To me it is just an inconsiderate thing to do that could potentially 1000000/1 chance endanger another road user or yourself

Sure you wouldn't get out of bed in the morning if you followed that logic.

el tel

petethedrummer wrote: »

Sure you wouldn't get out of bed in the morning if you followed that logic.

Ahhh but what about the 1000000/1 chance that you might endanger yourself by lying on in bed in the morning?!!!1!!

beauf

Seems like there are other solutions

http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-quotStreet-Party-Bicycle-Stereoquot-anyone/
http://cyclr.com/journal/2014/06/26/the-boombox-bicycle/
http://www.gizmag.com/scosche-boombottle-review/29313/
http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/cycletunes-speakers
http://www.bikespeakers.com/
http://www.cathodecorner.com/bikeboombox/

This might be taking it too far though
http://www.bicycle-world-records.com/worldrecords/Guinnessbook.html

Deedsie

I know I said I would stop replying but then I read this and I thought it would fit in "hear"...

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/luas-crush-girl-i-thought-i-was-going-to-die-30541068.html

THE teenage girl who got trapped between a Luas and its platform has said she is lucky to be alive.

Fifth-year student Maja Dabkowska (16) was rescued when commuters pushed the tram away so she could be freed.

"Can't believe I'm alive, could've died today, it's a miracle I haven't lost my leg," she said on Facebook.

"Got my thigh jammed between the platform and the Luas this morning. No words to describe how thankful I am to all the people that picked the Luas up in order to get me out."

The schoolgirl was involved in a collision with the tram in Dublin's city centre early yesterday.

The incident occurred on the 'Red Line' outside the Jervis Street shopping centre shortly before 9am.

Commuters and passers-by rushed to the teenager's aid, and attempted to push the Luas away from the platform in a bid to free her.

The girl was eventually freed and was rushed to hospital - her injuries are not life-threatening.

The attached footage, filmed by Łukasz Piguła and published to Facebook, shows the moment that the girl became trapped beneath the tram.

Maja, who is originally from Poland but living in Dublin's north inner city with her family, had been due to start her first day in fifth year at the Holy Family school in Rathcoole yesterday.

The youngster was in a rush to get a bus and said she had her earphones in and didn't hear a second Luas coming as she made her way across the tracks until "it was right in front of me, and I panicked and tripped over, it was right in front of me and I scrambled onto the platform but my leg slipped and I didn't make it in time".

She added: "My leg got hit by the Luas and got stuck in between the platform and the Luas up to the very top of my thigh. I slid with the Luas for a meter or two, and then I couldn't move.

Headphones/earphones do affect your awareness of what is going on around you.

adrian522

Brilliant, this is scientific proof if ever I've seen it. Ban earphones all together. Let's ban music while we are at it.

cormacjones

adrian522 wrote: »

Brilliant, this is scientific proof if ever I've seen it. Ban earphones all together. Let's ban music while we are at it.

You want to ban music? Are you in the Taliban?

I missed the part where the poster said it was scientific proof. I think you'd have to be pretty dim to believe that headphones don't impact you're awareness in some way. No need for the snarky reply.

beauf

Deedsie wrote: »

I know I said I would stop replying but then I read this and I thought it would fit in "hear"...

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/luas-crush-girl-i-thought-i-was-going-to-die-30541068.html
....

So will you be starting a thread should it be illegal to "walk while wearing headphones?"

Chips Lovell

Problem: Teenage girl walks out in front of Luas without looking left or right.
Solution: Ban cyclists from wearing headphones.

adrian522

cormacjones wrote: »

You want to ban music? Are you in the Taliban?

I missed the part where the poster said it was scientific proof. I think you'd have to be pretty dim to believe that headphones don't impact you're awareness in some way. No need for the snarky reply.

I actually don't want to ban music. I think it would be idiotic.

Take from that what you will.