Cyclists breaking lights!!

Tenzor07

Spook_ie wrote: »

people would like to see cyclists in general obeying road traffic law

I'd like to see ALL road users obey road traffic law, but what you're suggesting in taxing and licensing bicyclists is just plain unworkable, full stop. Every time you come up with it makes me think you have zero interest in road safety and upholding of the law and more "I want to see all bicyclists taxed off the road".....

By the way in all my posts I am speaking as "A Road user", so 2 wheels, 4 wheels and 2 feet the odd time!

RainyDay

Spook_ie wrote: »

Both those threads relate to the cyclist being issued with a summons to attend court NOT an FPN, you need to know what the difference is

Does it really matter? The point is that cyclists who break the law are caught, some of the time.

Spook_ie wrote: »

Perhaps you're one of these cyclists that believe the laws shouldn't apply to them because "Sure we're only cyclists, what harm are we doing"

Spook_ie wrote: »

or is it such an anathema to you that people would like to see cyclists in general obeying road traffic law

Like I said to SeanW, is there any chance that you could point out where any cyclist actually said this?

Spook_ie wrote: »

Just as a PoI, have you read the number of threads on boards, where someone reckons a car/bus etc. was being driven too close or whatever.
The number of replies that say report it to the Gardai because they will at least have a record of the driver and the next time he does something wrong they'll have him, is unbelievable

Yeah, I've heard that said, all right. But I've never heard a credible case from the Gardai where they say 'Oh we had a string of reports about that guy'. They either have offences, or they don't. If they don't go down the road of taking a formal statement, they don't know who actually drove the car. The driver does NOT have a registration number. The car has a registration number.

Spook_ie

RainyDay wrote: »

Does it really matter? The point is that cyclists who break the law are caught, some of the time.



Like I said to SeanW, is there any chance that you could point out where any cyclist actually said this?


Yeah, I've heard that said, all right. But I've never heard a credible case from the Gardai where they say 'Oh we had a string of reports about that guy'. They either have offences, or they don't. If they don't go down the road of taking a formal statement, they don't know who actually drove the car. The driver does NOT have a registration number. The car has a registration number.

Of course it matters if you don't understand the difficulties involved in prosecuting a cyclist v the ease to issue a FPN. against a motorist the point is how many cyclists are prosecuted for breaking traffic laws compared to motorists, the answer = not many at all

Jawgap

Spook_ie wrote: »

Of course it matters if you don't understand the difficulties involved in prosecuting a cyclist v the ease to issue a FPN. against a motorist the point is how many cyclists are prosecuted for breaking traffic laws compared to motorists, the answer = not many at all

......maybe that's because not many break the traffic laws? Occam's Razor and all that

Some people, when sensitive to an issue, are apt to see it......everywhere.

Spook_ie

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You still don't get it, these points have been explained to you many many times in 100's of posts and threads... You are talking about a system which would cost more to implement then it would save. As well as having no benefit to society..

Sure, the powers that be can't even implement a north/south cross-border penalty point system for motorists!

If you can name one country in the democratic world where Bicyclists are licensed to use roads, and taxed then I'll eat my old lycra shorts!

So have you got any other points on this matter?

The system for putting points onto irish licenses is already in existence, the system to hold points in abeyance until a driver obtains a license is already in place ( how do you think they put points onto 15 year old joyriders licenses?) I'm just proposing that seeing as cyclists are part of traffic then traffic penalty points are extended to them. For instance you get caught on your bike jumping a red light, because you are traffic, you get penalty points on your license to drive, if you don't hold a license they are kept in limbo until you do get a license and put on then.

Btw I don't recall posting anything in this thread about road taxation, but if you want to rehash the thread from breaking red lights to road taxation, feel free

Spook_ie

Jawgap wrote: »

......maybe that's because not many break the traffic laws? Occam's Razor and all that

Some people, when sensitive to an issue, are apt to see it......everywhere.

Yeah, trouble with that statement is so many people go into a denial phase with things like breaking the law, Wasn't me officer, light wasnt red, I didn't know it was against the law etc.

Tenzor07

Spook_ie wrote: »

The system for putting points onto irish licenses is already in existence, the system to hold points in abeyance until a driver obtains a license is already in place ( how do you think they put points onto 15 year old joyriders licenses?) I'm just proposing that seeing as cyclists are part of traffic then traffic penalty points are extended to them. For instance you get caught on your bike jumping a red light, because you are traffic, you get penalty points on your license to drive, if you don't hold a license they are kept in limbo until you do get a license and put on then.

Bicyclist operator licenses will not ever come into existence, have you got any new and reasonable points to add to the general debate?

Of course you don't as you know well that bicyclist registration would be disproportionately expensive and force a majority of bicyclists off the road... but that is the aim anyways eh?

Jawgap

Spook_ie wrote: »

Yeah, trouble with that statement is so many people go into a denial phase with things like breaking the law, Wasn't me officer, light wasnt red, I didn't know it was against the law etc.

Whatever.......I've long since realised that there's nothing can be said or typed to change minds on this. People see what they want to see and if the data doesn't back up their preconceived biases then in their view the data is wrong.........after all they couldn't possibly be wrong now, could they?

Of course, maybe it's the Guards fault for ignoring all this dangerous lawbreaking that is so so apparent to anyone who just cares to give a cursory look?

Spook_ie

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Bicyclist operator licenses will not ever come into existence, have you got any new and reasonable points to add to the general debate?

Of course you don't as you know well that bicyclist registration would be disproportionately expensive and force a majority of bicyclists off the road... but that is the aim anyways eh?

Hello earth to Tenzor07, come in Tenzor07 are you receiving?

What bicycle licence do you think I'm referring to?, I'm referring to putting points on your driving license for commiting a traffic violation whilst in control of a vehicle, if you don't hold a driving license then the points are on hold until you get a driving license.

Tenzor07

Spook_ie wrote: »

Hello earth to Tenzor07, come in Tenzor07 are you receiving?

What bicycle licence do you think I'm referring to?, I'm referring to putting points on your driving license for commiting a traffic violation whilst in control of a vehicle, if you don't hold a driving license then the points are on hold until you get a driving license.

What if I never get a driving license...?

What benefit to society will that be then...?

What other offences could I get points on my Imaginary drivers license for other than breaking a red light? Speeding perhaps?

Spook_ie

Tenzor07 wrote: »

What if I never get a driving license...?

What benefit to society will that be then...?

What other offences could I get points on my Imaginary drivers license for other than breaking a red light? Speeding perhaps?

Are you deliberately being obtuse, if you never hold a driving license you never drive, you just end up with the fines. But if you do hold a license or wish to drive at some time in the future you'd likely want to keep your nose ( and License) clean

Tenzor07

Spook_ie wrote: »

Are you deliberately being obtuse, if you never hold a driving license you never drive, you just end up with the fines. But if you do hold a license or wish to drive at some time in the future you'd likely want to keep your nose ( and License) clean

Seems like a waste of time to me..

So little Johnny or Mary just got the stabilisers off their Bicycles and skim through the red light at the pedestrian crossing in the village of Ballygohooly and the local Gard stops them and takes their name and address to post them the fine which equals a years pocket money... "Now then little Johnny/Mary in 13 years time when ye pass your car driving test ye'r going to get 2 points as a present from me!?

RainyDay

Spook_ie wrote: »

Of course it matters if you don't understand the difficulties involved in prosecuting a cyclist v the ease to issue a FPN. against a motorist the point is how many cyclists are prosecuted for breaking traffic laws compared to motorists, the answer = not many at all

OK, so we've establish that there is a degree of enforcement of traffic law for cyclists, and the question outstanding is the extent.

Funny that if I ask a question about 'how many', I usually expect a numeric answer, and not something vague and opinionated like 'not many at all'. If you ask a 'how many' question, you need to come back with a number. If you don't have a number, you don't know the answer.

Spook_ie

RainyDay wrote: »

OK, so we've establish that there is a degree of enforcement of traffic law for cyclists, and the question outstanding is the extent.

Funny that if I ask a question about 'how many', I usually expect a numeric answer, and not something vague and opinionated like 'not many at all'. If you ask a 'how many' question, you need to come back with a number. If you don't have a number, you don't know the answer.

Difficult to quantify numerical because the RSA don't keep statistics on court cases but the fact that you have 3 in whatever period is indicative of not a lot, perhaps you can put an empirical value to it

Spook_ie

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Seems like a waste of time to me..

So little Johnny or Mary just got the stabilisers off their Bicycles and skim through the red light at the pedestrian crossing in the village of Ballygohooly and the local Gard stops them and takes their name and address to post them the fine which equals a years pocket money... "Now then little Johnny/Mary in 13 years time when ye pass your car driving test ye'r going to get 2 points as a present from me!?

Assuming that they are 4/5 years old would they not be under the age of criminality therefore in all probability if they were riding through Red lights it would be a parental issue just as if they were vandalising bus stops or whatever, but if they were 12/13 then why not, there are joyriders of that age getting disqualifications

Tenzor07

Spook_ie wrote: »

Assuming that they are 4/5 years old would they not be under the age of criminality therefore in all probability if they were riding through Red lights it would be a parental issue just as if they were vandalising bus stops or whatever, but if they were 12/13 then why not, there are joyriders of that age getting disqualifications

So who gets the points and fine, Mammy and Daddy? Hardly seems fair eh?

Spook_ie

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So who gets the points and fine, Mammy and Daddy? Hardly seems fair eh?

Perfectly fair if you want children then you take responsibility for them

SeanW

RainyDay wrote: »

OK, so we've establish that there is a degree of enforcement of traffic law for cyclists, and the question outstanding is the extent.

Funny that if I ask a question about 'how many', I usually expect a numeric answer, and not something vague and opinionated like 'not many at all'. If you ask a 'how many' question, you need to come back with a number. If you don't have a number, you don't know the answer.

I see cyclists breaking the law most every day that I take to the streets in our main cities. But I've only seen one stopped once, and that I think was for cycling on Grafton Street. From what I've seen, it's a total free-for-all regarding cyclists. I'm fine with that up to a point, so long as they are not hypocritical about it.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So who gets the points and fine, Mammy and Daddy? Hardly seems fair eh?

Seems perfectly fair - a lot of problems in our society is with children that parents can't or won't control. If a child is not able to use the roads safely they should supervised until they are.

Tenzor07

Spook_ie wrote: »

Perfectly fair if you want children then you take responsibility for them

SeanW wrote: »

Seems perfectly fair - a lot of problems in our society is with children that parents can't or won't control. If a child is not able to use the roads safely they should supervised until they are.

So, little Johnny and Mary can't remember their address, cos they are like, 5 years old, so now also have to carry proof of identity? Otherwise they get arrested and hauled down to the nearest Garda station like common criminals in the back of a garda van yea? In cuffs cos they like broke a red light or maybe cycled on the footpath cos otherwise there's only a dual carriageway...

Please explain the benefit to society in hauling two 5 year olds down to the garda station, including how the taking up of many hours of police time and cost to the state in dealing with these two outlaws?

lanarty56

Something has to be done about these idiot cyclists on our roads. Most of them have no regard for the rules of the road, they are a danger to themselves and other road users. The government should seriously consider a mandatory theory test for all cyclists

SeanW

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So, little Johnny and Mary can't remember their address, cos they are like, 5 years old,

If they "cant' remember their own address, cos they are like, 5 years old" don't know how to use the roads safely (that's a given if they're 5) then why would they be allowed unsupervised? Where are the parents?

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

lanarty56 wrote: »

Something has to be done about these idiot cyclists on our roads. Most of them have no regard for the rules of the road, they are a danger to themselves and other road users. The government should seriously consider a mandatory theory test for all cyclists

Im going to say it again because they are a bunch of fecking gobshoites.

The arseholes that use those dublin bikes are the worst.

Its like they never used a bike before and still think their a pedestrian walking running lights and going between people and cars.

I know the scheme is great and makes money but god those people are dopes waiting to be knocked down.

SeanW

And BTW who calls their daughters "Mary" these days?

Miall108

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Im going to say it again because they are a bunch of fecking gobshoites.

The arseholes that use those dublin bikes are the worst.

Its like they never used a bike before and still think their a pedestrian walking running lights and going between people and cars.

I know the scheme is great and makes money but god those people are dopes waiting to be knocked down.

And not to mention their generally stuck up their own holes, arseholes cycling around Dublin in their suits thinking their great saving the environment. A good toe up the hole they'd want

Faux Socialist

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

I know the scheme is great and makes money but god those people are dopes waiting to be knocked down.

Dopes who will be 20-30 grand richer if it does happen.

Spook_ie

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So, little Johnny and Mary can't remember their address, cos they are like, 5 years old, so now also have to carry proof of identity? Otherwise they get arrested and hauled down to the nearest Garda station like common criminals in the back of a garda van yea? In cuffs cos they like broke a red light or maybe cycled on the footpath cos otherwise there's only a dual carriageway...

Please explain the benefit to society in hauling two 5 year olds down to the garda station, including how the taking up of many hours of police time and cost to the state in dealing with these two outlaws?

If there were two five year old riding around not knowing their address, yeah cart them to the station and call the social workers in, because their parents are missing in action

SeanW

Spook_ie wrote: »

If there were two five year old riding around not knowing their address, yeah cart them to the station and call the social workers in, because their parents are missing in action

Ah but Spook my oul flower, your thinking is so 1960s with its car centric everything and bla bla bla.

It's the duty of motorist to be babysitters to children playing in traffic because the idea of parental responsibility is anathema. Everything goes, and when it goes wrong, it's someone elses' fault. :rolleyes:

Spook_ie

Just for clarification the normal age for criminal responsibility in Ireland is 12, if a child under 12 commits an offence then the Gardai responsibility is to deliver them to their parents or to a social worker http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/children_and_young_offenders/children_and_the_criminal_justice_system_in_ireland.html

Jawgap

lanarty56 wrote: »

Something has to be done about these idiot cyclists on our roads. Most of them have no regard for the rules of the road, they are a danger to themselves and other road users. The government should seriously consider a mandatory theory test for all cyclists

There's nothing like an original contribution to enhance a thread.......and this is nothing like an original contribution.

Jawgap

Spook_ie wrote: »

Just for clarification the normal age for criminal responsibility in Ireland is 12, if a child under 12 commits an offence then the Gardai responsibility is to deliver them to their parents or to a social worker http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/children_and_young_offenders/children_and_the_criminal_justice_system_in_ireland.html

Sure that's grand - haven't the Guards and the CFA so little to do that they'd have plenty of time to take them into custody and care until their parents are found. And sure I'd say there's hardly any paperwork involved when a child of all people is taken in?

Maybe the €2 million you suggested would be raised from licensing in another thread could be used to fund this? That is if you're agreeable to it not being used for your original idea - paying down the national debt!