How to kill depression

Antarcticseal

gozunda wrote: »

Excuse me? You appear to be a new poster that has appeared to have recently joined to opine your own version of what depression actually is whilst ignoring medical science. Before posting anything else on 'cures' please detail your medical qualifications and what exactly you are suffering from??? Thanks

I think you should ask yourself why someone else's advice makes you so angry? You're not being attacked. Asking these questions can hopefully get you to a place of inner peace. Meditation has been proven scientifically to be beneficial.

gozunda

sup_dude wrote: »

I just posted 10 links to scientific articles and journals, which have extra references within them that say that mindfulness and meditation are a viable treatment for countering the affects of depression, and yet you accuse the poster that he's ignoring medical science?
No, it mightn't work for everyone. However, it may (and has) worked for others. You cannot dismiss it as readily as you do, with no proof yourself.

I took that quote as to say that you don't need doctorsEither way, you're dismissing it based on one quote which isn't relevant to the rest of his posts.

Look the poster has no where mentioned mindfulness etc. I do take serious issue with depression being negated as a case of misaligned mindset. He effectively demised current medical knowledge with regard to depression. As for not 'needing doctors' - would you dismiss your doctor following losing your leg on the basis that 'ah sur it will be grand' ??? Clinical depression is a extremely serious medical condition that yes does require medical intervention.

As I said what next? Demonic possession?

gozunda

Antarcticseal wrote: »

I think you should ask yourself why someone else's advice makes you so angry? You're not being attacked. Asking these questions can hopefully get you to a place of inner peace. Meditation has been proven scientifically to be beneficial.

Answer the question relative to your medical qualifications for online diagnosis and cures.

Thanks

Ave Sodalis

gozunda wrote: »

Look the poster has no where mentioned mindfulness etc. I do take serious issue with depression being negated misaligned mindsets.

As I said what next? Demonic possession?

Mindfulness is what the poster described, whether they said it or not. Some of those links have information of mindfulness.

Mindfulness is "the intentional, accepting and non-judgmental focus of one's attention on the emotions, thoughts and sensations occurring in the present moment"

Don't be ridiculous.

Babooshka

gozunda wrote: »

Answer the question relative to your medical qualifications for online diagnosis and cures.

Thanks

I didn't realise we all had to be doctors to post our experiences about depression. You keep repeating "misaligned mindsets, misaligned mindsets...." Disassociating ones self from ones feelings and from the depression can benefit, I have practised it myself. That is what I think Antarticseal was talking about (at least, it's the meaning I took from their posts) Taking responsibility for the approach we take to our minds is of huge benefit when suffering mentally. Yes it's a medical issue which may require meds and doctors but it is also our own responsibility to try to put ourselves into a state of being where we are not our illnesses and this, like all things, shall pass, so to speak. No one here, including you, or anyone else, is an expert, that is why there are many shades of depressions and many shades of treatment and approach to it.

gozunda

sup_dude wrote: »

Mindfulness is what the poster described, whether they said it or not. Some of those links have information of mindfulness.


Don't be ridiculous.

Now that's been opinionated! No I disagree / that did not come across as 'mindfulness' - it was a clear negation of current medical science imo

Ave Sodalis

gozunda wrote: »

Now that's been opinionated! No I disagree / that did not come across as 'mindfulness' - it was a clear negation of current medical science

I don't get where you are coming from at all. I studied meditation and mindfulness and other such thing extensively when I was using it to come out of my own depression. It is easy to recognise and that is mindfulness. There are no two ways about it. It is mindfulness, whether you agree or not, and there is a scientific basis to mindfulness.

gozunda

Babooshka wrote: »

I didn't realise we all had to be doctors to post our experiences about depression. You keep repeating "misaligned mindsets, misaligned mindsets...." Disassociating ones self from ones feelings and from the depression can benefit, I have practised it myself. That is what I think Antarticseal was talking about (at least, it's the meaning I took from their posts) Taking responsibility for the approach we take to our minds is of huge benefit when suffering mentally. Yes it's a medical issue which may require meds and doctors but it is also our own responsibility to try to put ourselves into a state of being where we are not our illnesses and this, like all things, shall pass, so to speak. No one here, including you, or anyone else, is an expert, that is why there are many shades of depressions and many shades of treatment and approach to it.

No one said anything about all having to be doctors! The poster is clearly putting themselve up as some type of expert whilst dismissing current medical science. He also attempted to start a 'diagnosis' by asking what my ailment was (absolutely hilarious imo). My issue is not with any treatment as I have clearly said - it is the posters negation of depression as an actual diagnosable medical condition. He is the only one putting himself up as a expert'. I am calling this bluff.

gozunda

sup_dude wrote: »

I don't get where you are coming from at all. I studied meditation and mindfulness and other such thing extensively when I was using it to come out of my own depression. It is easy to recognise and that is mindfulness. There are no two ways about it. It is mindfulness, whether you agree or not, and there is a scientific basis to mindfulness.

Well 1) the poster hasn't referred to it at all and 2) where 'mindfulness' has been helpful / then that's truely excellent but unrelated to the posters personal philosophy / belief system

Ave Sodalis

gozunda wrote: »

Well 1) the poster hasn't referred to it at all and 2) where 'mindfulness' has been helpful / then that's truely excellent. But mindfulness in itself does not negate clinical depression.

1) The poster was talking about mindfulness. That is the name for what they were talking about, whether they said the actual name or not.

2) Mindfulness provides a great help. Maybe it will stop it completely for some people. I could not have done it without it and I can honestly say that it contributed to about 90% of my overcoming of depression. Maybe that will be 100% for some people, especially when the stats were so high for me. Who knows, because everyone is too individual to tell.

gozunda

sup_dude wrote: »

1) The poster was talking about mindfulness. That is the name for what they were talking about, whether they said the actual name or not.

2) Mindfulness provides a great help. Maybe it will stop it completely for some people. I could not have done it without it and I can honestly say that it contributed to about 90% of my overcoming of depression. Maybe that will be 100% for some people, especially when the stats were so high for me. Who knows, because everyone is too individual to tell.

I came to a very different conclusion.

I don't dispute the use of mindfulness.

Thanks

Czarcasm

gozunda wrote: »

Look the poster has no where mentioned mindfulness etc. I do take serious issue with depression being negated as a case of misaligned mindset.

Why? In order to treat an illness, you first have to be able to identify the symptoms, and misaligned mindset is as appropriate a definition as mental disorder. What exactly is your objection to the terminology that someone else uses? Is it simply because you don't agree with their understanding? There's no evidence to suggest Dev is a medical professional either, and yet you'll put more value in his advice because it resonates with your experience. That still doesn't give you any superior medical knowledge enough to condemn another posters opinion.

Ok I'm not too fond of the way Antarcticseal is putting his ideas across either, it's all a bit fluffy headed thinking for my taste, but I have no doubt what he's saying would resonate with other posters (If he directed me to breathe in and asked me did it hurt, I'd politely tell him to naff off with his unqualified psychobabble, but like I said, probably helps someone else, I know a few people it does help, and they have seen significant improvements in their lives as a result of what I would consider an unorthodox coping strategy). The important thing for me is that it's helping somebody, and it's more helpful than harmful when you're at that point where you really will try anything.

He effectively demised current medical knowledge with regard to depression.

He didn't though. He might be coming across a bit hippy dippy about it, but sup_dude has provided resource links to show evidence that medical professionals working with depression and mental illness are beginning to regard mindfulness and meditation as a serious scientific study in treating people suffering from mental illness and mental disorders.

As I said what next? Demonic possession?

Still quite common today despite all the scientific evidence to the contrary, what we might call mental illness, in other cultures is indeed regarded as demonic possession.

Dinarius

Depression can be overcome by surrendering to the present moment. Accept the moment as it is, don't fight it, don't resist it, don't complain about it. Pay attention to your breathing, allow your thoughts to slowly fade away, when a thought does pop up, observe it and let it be and let it go.

This is a brilliant quote, and this is an excellent thread.

I have put the quote in my iPhone and set up a daily reminder to make it appear on the screen. It reminds me of what I once read about confidence being a state of mind, not a feeling.

So much of dealing with depression is about confidence, overcoming fear, dealing with (certainly in my case) deep rooted feelings of insecurity and lack of self-esteem, etc.

That said, I accept that it is the formless anxiety that can be the most terrifying. I try to attach things to it - when will the phone ring with my next job etc. (I'm self-employed) But, it can run away with you and you wonder will it ever pass. It always does, until the next time.

Thanks to all for contributing.

I've been having periodic highs and lows for the last 7 years. (I'm 54)

I've been checked by two psychiatrists for Bipolar - both negative. But, my symptoms are similar - so, Cyclothymia? The cycles are certainly more rapid - 8-10 days every 6-8 weeks. But, the highs and lows are not, I think, in the BP spectrum.

However, what queers the pitch in my case is that I'm on a gram a day of Epilim for mild epilepsy. This is also used to treat Bipolar disorder and migraines, which I also suffer from. In fact, my down periods usually start with a migraine and then last about 3-4 days. I'm charging along, feeling great and then BANG! - a migraine strikes and, perhaps stretching my meds, a rebalancing has to take place and I feel crap for a few days. Then I regain my sleep pattern and I feel fine.

D.

llennocO

So much has been said about depression treatment and many references were made to the scientific and medical arenas of thought on this. Let us examine some of these bases further as I feel many posters are overstating what we know about the condition at present and are making far too liberal inductions having cited "medicine" as a good basis for this:

1. With respect to precision
There's no objective test for depression; we haven't identified any valid and reliable biomarkers, and we have no medical treatment which directly targets any known pathological cause of the symptom clusters. Indeed, people with often wildly different symptom clusters are ultimately diagnosed with the same illness and treated in the exact same way despite the suggestion of distinct etiologies. The medical treatments we offer (such as SSRI's, SNRI's and TCA's) all profoundly effect extremely important, widely distributed neurological systems which are implicated in an variety of functions completely unrelated to "depression" and cause often very serious side effects. This is really imprecise medicine and almost anyone could find a reference on PubMed which supports their own view regardless of what that view is. Further discussion should take this into account and not throw casual references to science as if there's a good understanding of depression in that community.

2. In terms of accuracy
Nobody knows what depression actually is as a medical issue - As it stands it's a cluster of symptoms that are subjectively assessed/reported to a doctor who consults in turn a diagnostic manual which is liable to change on the whims of the American Psychiatric Association and subjectively makes a stab at a diagnosis. Until the early 1970s homosexuality was diagnosable, and in the forthcoming edition Asperger syndrome is to be removed altogether. This is not going to happen with (to take an example previously mentioned) diabetes because the pathology is understood and the treatment is not just effective but selective for a particular symptom based on an accurate and objective description of the underlying problem.

Call Me Jimmy

The diagnosis and treatment of the average person with depression probably is at the least scientific end of the spectrum that is still allowed to be called scientific.

Dinarius

The points made earlier in the thread about ego and its contribution to the lack mental well being ring true the more I think about it.

D.

gozunda

The proffering of throwaway comments on mental health can be seriously unhelpful to individuals who may need to seek professional help at some point in their lives imo. Coupled with historic stigma associated with mental health such attitudes may result in at least some some being unwilling to seek diagnosis and proper help.

As with other medical conditions, diagnosis of mental health is obviously subject to change due to developments in research and knowledge. No branch of medicine is static. Perhaps even more important is the fact that prejudice and bias are no longer acceptable even if they still are evident.

It remains however that there are things which are best not said in any situation.

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/04/29/9-things-not-to-say-to-someone-with-mental-illness/